Looks Like We're Finally Going To Rebuild.

[Newfie John]

Lets face it guys, with Roberts and Newy gone, we have a big lack of top 6 forwards. Jeff O'niell coming off a bad year, and Mats Sundin who has done many things during the lockout, but conditioning wasn't one of them. Our 3rd and 4th lines are set though.

On defence we pretty much have the same defence as last year, only worse. Brian Leetch looks like he's on the way out. Signing Niedermayer is a pipe dream. Foote, Hatcher, and Rathje, all defencemen that we needed, are all gone. So our defence isn't looking that great at the moment.

In goal, we still have Eddie, and I don't have to say much more then that.

Sundin has a no trade clause, so trading that bloated salary is out the window.

I've been trying to look at the leaf situation with the most optimism as possible, but the reality is, we just can't afford what we need. We need 4 other top 6 forwards, and one more top 4 D who is a stay at homer and a punishing hitter. Foote, Hatcher, and Rathje are all now off the market.

In order for us to have any real success with the way our lineup is looking right now, Sundin is going to have to score 90 points, O'niell with 35 goals, Antropov, Ponikarovsky and Stajan breaking out with career years. On defence Mccabe has to keep doing what he's been doing, but Kaberle really has to pick it up. Ken Klee has to keep doing what he's doing, and Carlo Colaiocovo and Karel Pilar are going to have to really kick it into gear for the leafs. I'm still wondering why we qualified Berg at 1.1 million.

What do we do? I say finally bring in some youth. Lets tank the year and get a good draft pick. Save some cap space for the impressive UFA crop next year. We can make one or UFA signings up front this year and let the rest come from within. Let's just try our youngsters and see what happens. Lets say we'll sign Glen Murray just to keep our team respectable.

O'niell - Sundin - Murray
Tucker- Stajan - Antropov
Poni - Wellwood - Steen
Belak - Ondrus - Perrot

Mccabe - Kaberle
Klee - Colaiocovo
Pilar - Berg

Belfour
Tellqvist

Assuming all things go PERFECTLY SMOOTHLY, we could crack the top 8, maybe. We could get a pretty good draft pick at this position aswell. We also save a ton of cap space for next year and we could have the upper hand on guys like

Iginla
Lecavalier
Pronger
Marleau
Chara
Redden
Thornton.. etc etc etc.

[bluemeanie]

I think the Leafs are avoiding any multi-year contracts at this stage just because of the fact that next year will see many great young players become available. Not, sure if we'll have the 'upper hand' or not, but it seems that the Leafs will definitely show some commitment to acquiring such talent. As far as viewing this year as a write off goes, there's still a lot of wiggle room, and we're about three acquisitions away from potentially being a better team then we were in 03 IMO. Let's hope that the so-called 'Toronto nostalgia' card will pay off for us. But we're definately worse off with the departure of Roberts.

[grim]

Originally Posted by bluemeanie

I think the Leafs are avoiding any multi-year contracts at this stage just because of the fact that next year will see many great young players become available. Not, sure if we'll have the 'upper hand' or not, but it seems that the Leafs will definitely show some commitment to acquiring such talent. As far as viewing this year as a write off goes, there's still a lot of wiggle room, and we're about three acquisitions away from potentially being a better team then we were in 03 IMO. Let's hope that the so-called 'Toronto nostalgia' card will pay off for us. But we're definately worse off with the departure of Roberts.

The " 'Toronto nostalgia' card? *blink* I'll add that one to the list. :]

1. Torontoexclusive grit.
2. My momma's from Toronto. Sign me up.
3. I'd love to end my career there. Really.
4. That Toronto je ne sais quoi
5. I'd take less money to play there. Because of the grit and everything.
6. Waiter!!? Yes three more Perrier for me and my associates.
7. The 'Toronto nostalgia' card.

[bluemeanie]

Originally Posted by grim

4. That Toronto je ne sais quoi

lol
Although rarely quoted by players, it's exactly that that we're counting on.... hey, something's gotta' replace are 'deep pockets'. =]

[swflyers25]

Poor Leafs....

[bluemeanie]

With Iggy signing a three year deal and Pronger wrapped up in Edmonton, the Leafs are left with two less young stars to pursue next year... if they are in fact holding out to make an impact then. I don't think that the leafs should be counting on guys like Lecavalier or Thorton being available either.

[Madferret]

Any Leafers read the Ulmer or Simmons' blurbs today? Yikes...

[Newfie John]

Originally Posted by Madferret

Any Leafers read the Ulmer or Simmons' blurbs today? Yikes...

Nothing out of the ordianary. Last season at about this time they were screaming the sky is falling too. They do it every year, and then when we make the playoffs they're saying how good our chances are of winning the cup.

They're both idiots, especially Simmons.

[Madferret]

Originally Posted by Newfie John

Nothing out of the ordianary. Last season at about this time they were screaming the sky is falling too. They do it every year, and then when we make the playoffs they're saying how good our chances are of winning the cup.

They're both idiots, especially Simmons.

Ulmer brings up some interesting points though. And if what Simmons wrote about how JFJ tried to low-ball Roberts & Niewy against each other is true, that's pretty bad.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Madferret

Ulmer brings up some interesting points though. And if what Simmons wrote about how JFJ tried to low-ball Roberts & Niewy against each other is true, that's pretty bad.

Kypreos was saying the same on sportsnet
Supposable JFJ offered Roberts more but only offered Joe N 1 million
Something like that anyways
But who knows, it could all be BS

[bluemeanie]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Kypreos was saying the same on sportsnet
Supposable JFJ offered Roberts more but only offered Joe N 1 million
Something like that anyways
But who knows, it could all be BS

I read that as well, but Newy was just on the radio, and he made no indication of anything like that happening, or him leaving with any ill feelings. He's dissapointed that a deal wasn't made - but I think this just comes down to differances in term lengths. I really hope so anyhow.

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Originally Posted by Madferret

Ulmer brings up some interesting points though. And if what Simmons wrote about how JFJ tried to low-ball Roberts & Niewy against each other is true, that's pretty bad.

If we resigned Roberts and Niewy they'd be bashing JFJ because we'd be going down the same path that failed for so many years. They'd say how this team continues to get older, and that Pat Quinn is still the one pulling the strings in the organization.

We don't sign them, and guess what, JFJ is still a friggin idiot We're not gonna make the playoffs (who knew two days into free agency we'd have our opening night roster), the team is going nowhere, and not resigning Roberts and Niewy were bad moves (but in their opinion resigning them would be a bad move also ).

Have the Leafs added a solid defensemen since free agency started? In a word, no. However, at 4-5 million dollars per year, and long term contracts were any of these guys worthwhile investments. IMO no. 4 years from now Rathje and Hatcher will both be liabilities with unmoveable contracts (and the fact that the NHL cap could go down makes things even worse). Will the bandwagon Leaf fans who call in and bitch to call-in radio shows about how smart Philly is be thinking the same thing a few years down the line? No, I didn't think so. Pronger was the one guy who was worth the money he got, but Toronto just simply didn't have the assets to match the trade Edmonton made. All 3 guys the Blues got are young defensemen that'll crack their roster now (Brewer), or one or two years down the road (Lynch and Woywitka). Also, haven't we been crying for a stalwart defensmen since Quinn took over as coach, and haven't we made the playoffs every year since he's gotten here? A lot of crying over nothing on this account IMO. We've gotten by with below average defensemen in the past, and as long as Eddie's here we'll get by with below average defensemen for at least another year.

My point is, we're two $#&@ing days into free agency. It's not the end of the world if we don't sign anyone. There's still enough guys out there for us to put together a playoff team. Will the Leafs will the Stanley Cup next year, probably not, but the team should still be able to make the playoffs and depending on the health of our potential signings (Allison, Lindros) we could make some noise in the spring. As long as the group of forwards is improved we should be fine. So stop acting like it's the end of the world.

[Max Power]

Originally Posted by Leafs_Fa_Life

we could make some noise in the spring. As long as the group of forwards is improved we should be fine. So stop acting like it's the end of the world.

The only thing you'll do is beat the Sens then lose miserably
ha ha ha...
uhh crap
=]

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Originally Posted by Max Power

The only thing you'll do is beat the Sens then lose miserably
ha ha ha...
uhh crap
=]

I can live with that

[Man.Utd]

Originally Posted by Leafs_Fa_Life

If we resigned Roberts and Niewy they'd be bashing JFJ because we'd be going down the same path that failed for so many years. They'd say how this team continues to get older, and that Pat Quinn is still the one pulling the strings in the organization.

We don't sign them, and guess what, JFJ is still a friggin idiot We're not gonna make the playoffs (who knew two days into free agency we'd have our opening night roster), the team is going nowhere, and not resigning Roberts and Niewy were bad moves (but in their opinion resigning them would be a bad move also ).

Have the Leafs added a solid defensemen since free agency started? In a word, no. However, at 4-5 million dollars per year, and long term contracts were any of these guys worthwhile investments. IMO no. 4 years from now Rathje and Hatcher will both be liabilities with unmoveable contracts (and the fact that the NHL cap could go down makes things even worse). Will the bandwagon Leaf fans who call in and bitch to call-in radio shows about how smart Philly is be thinking the same thing a few years down the line? No, I didn't think so. Pronger was the one guy who was worth the money he got, but Toronto just simply didn't have the assets to match the trade Edmonton made. All 3 guys the Blues got are young defensemen that'll crack their roster now (Brewer), or one or two years down the road (Lynch and Woywitka).

Bingo. Thus my praise of JFJ earlier in the thread. Yes, he lost some key guys but it would've been worse had he opted to keep them at the inflated cost. Toronto would've been stuck with an over-priced status-quo roster, which as we saw last playoffs, is certainly good enough to be a contender but also a far cry away to be considered a favorite. Then we'd all be here poking fun at the old Leaf roster.

Had Quinn been running the show, as I said earier, he likely would've signed both Gary and Joe to those crazy contracts. And I firmly believe he would've out-bid everyone for Holik too seeing as he's always had a hard on for Bobby.

Also, haven't we been crying for a stalwart defensmen since Quinn took over as coach, and haven't we made the playoffs every year since he's gotten here? A lot of crying over nothing on this account IMO. We've gotten by with below average defensemen in the past, and as long as Eddie's here we'll get by with below average defensemen for at least another year.

That's up for debate. You've made the playoffs every year yes but who have you ever beaten besides the Ottawa Senators since Yushkevich, a great defensive defenseman, was traded to Florida (a blow from which Toronto's defensive corps have never recovered in my books. Although judging by his play from then on in it was the right time to say goodbye)? Scratch that. Besides Patrick Lalime because this past season was the one B.O.O in which the Sens really were the better team. Maybe a stalwart would make you guys into bonafide contenders? I dont think so, but there are many who would speculate so and you can never know for sure.

Also, Eddie is another year older and in all likely hood has declined over the lockout. I've no doubt he's still of great quality, but I also don't doubt he would have taken small a step back.

My point is, we're two $#&@ing days into free agency. It's not the end of the world if we don't sign anyone. There's still enough guys out there for us to put together a playoff team. Will the Leafs will the Stanley Cup next year, probably not, but the team should still be able to make the playoffs and depending on the health of our potential signings (Allison, Lindros) we could make some noise in the spring. As long as the group of forwards is improved we should be fine. So stop acting like it's the end of the world.

Yep. And even if you don't make the playoffs it'll likely be a one-year occurance. Next year there will be tons of UFAs, Toronto will have more cap room, and I'm sure there will be some nice players heading to the big smoke. The time it'll take to build a team that can be one of the top contenders however is a different story IMO.

[Amoroq]

The Leafs can't win. They sign Joe and Gary to the 2 years each, JFJ gets burned in effigy. Florida signs them, and its OH what a great move by Keenan, what two better players could you choose to help along the young stars on the Panthers. Its like have two extra coaches but on the ice, HOW the in THE HELL does JFJ not sign these 2? It's amasing he has a job!!

2 pushing 40 year olds on the Leafs=Old Farts
2 pushing 40 years olds on the Panthers=OUR GREAT SAVIOUR IN HEAVAN!!



Simmons, Yo Mamma has a wooden leg with a kickstand!!