Morrison done for the year, Luongo leaves for Florida

[gordphish]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=232955&hubname=nhl

For Morrison, what another waste of space this piece of garbage is. Just look at him funny now and he gets hurt. Good riddance. I just pray that that's the last time we ever see him in a Canuck uni.

Luongo, well...it was coming anyways. I agree with Rusty on this one...bring up Schneider and play him. Good luck Roberto and family.

[TimmyTabasco]

Little harsh on Morrison, no?

Too bad about Luongo..but family comes first

Season appears to be fizzling

[gordphish]

Little harsh on Morrison, no?

Too bad about Luongo..but family comes first

Season appears to be fizzling

Not harsh enough, actually. He is soft and over-rated in almost every category. And now he's another injury bag.

He avoids physical play like the plague, and I would never have a player like that on my team, let alone let him wear a letter.

[AtLossForWords]

Agreed with Gordo on Morrsion, this guy needs to be given a one way ticket out of town until he has a road game here.

[KB in Kelowna]

The only thing about Morrison being gone next year, is that there won't be anything to show for him, unless they do a sign and trade, doubtful. Same with Naslund.

From what I have heard, Luongo's wife has had some health issues around this pregnancy which is why she went to Florida to be with family, nothing against Vancouver or the BC Health Care system. I have said it before, and most dad's in the audience will attest, you get a little squirrley before the big event, it gets hard to concentrate. Anyone who questions Luongo's loyalty or professionalism in th past few days, is obviously not a parent and that is a good thing because they haven't reproduced it will help clear out the gene pool.

This team's problem is not Luongo right now, it is a lack of intensity for 60 minutes, a lack of scoring, a lack of concentration, a lack of depth in the forwards so that injuries are crippling. But injuries are like noses, everyone has them at this time of year. There must be some problems in the room because the lack of leadership really shows. Iginla took that Flames team on his back in period 2 on Tuesday, from the accounts I read, when was the last time a skater or position player did that for Vancouver? From listening to TEAM 1040 yesterday people were having flip outs because Tom Larschied pointed that out on the broadcast :no:

I suspect the Acquillini's will make sure some bold moves are planned for mid-April.

[rustybadcock]

The only thing about Morrison being gone next year, is that there won't be anything to show for him, unless they do a sign and trade, doubtful. Same with Naslund.

From what I have heard, Luongo's wife has had some health issues around this pregnancy which is why she went to Florida to be with family, nothing against Vancouver or the BC Health Care system. I have said it before, and most dad's in the audience will attest, you get a little squirrley before the big event, it gets hard to concentrate. Anyone who questions Luongo's loyalty or professionalism in th past few days, is obviously not a parent and that is a good thing because they haven't reproduced it will help clear out the gene pool.

This team's problem is not Luongo right now, it is a lack of intensity for 60 minutes, a lack of scoring, a lack of concentration, a lack of depth in the forwards so that injuries are crippling. But injuries are like noses, everyone has them at this time of year. There must be some problems in the room because the lack of leadership really shows. Iginla took that Flames team on his back in period 2 on Tuesday, from the accounts I read, when was the last time a skater or position player did that for Vancouver? From listening to TEAM 1040 yesterday people were having flip outs because Tom Larschied pointed that out on the broadcast :no:

I suspect the Acquillini's will make sure some bold moves are planned for mid-April.

Totally agreed on the fathering points, however I think there should have been a moment here where the "leadership" on this team stepped in and sent Luo on his way. Far as I am concerned he's been giving up glaring rebounds for two nights now. He's both mentally and physically fatigued and should have been in Florida for the past three nights. And anything Larschied has to say sounds to me like that of a mad man in an insane asylum. I cannot stand most everyone on the "team 1040" Their daft tits who should be anything but spokespeople for this team. IMHO of course.

Gordo, your assessment of Mo is unfounded as far as I am concerned. And unfair. This guy has played here for many years and I agree, for some time after the WCE dissolved he hasn't been much of a force on this team however, to attack his injuries I just can't support. I mean if anything, this guy has given to this team more than he's taken. He played for how long with that wrist injury? How long with his hip and core issues? And why? Cause of this teams bullshit media following it. If he'd done the right thing and got the surgeries he needed when these issued reared their ugly heads he would have been called a quitter. Instead he stuck it out for you and me and this team and IMO he attempted to show "leadership" by playing through it. He failed, however today I am in no mood to destroy his character. This is a good player and one whom I think will be back on this team with a pay cut and if he's not I send him off with the best of wishes.

gotta fly

RB

[AtLossForWords]

The problem with Morrison is that he doesn't bring anything to the table. He's small, he's soft, and he isn't a playmaker who makes others around him better. He's a playmaker who does well when guys are at the height of their career, and he just has to get them the puck somewhere in the offensive zone.

I don't want to call Brendan Morrison a cherry picker, but he does not put himself into the play, and he isn't ghostly enough to do that in a good way.

If Brendan Morrison was a soft player who was able to gain the zone with posession of the puck and was someone who could make Matt Pettinger a better player instead of just feeding off a Pearson winner's spoils there would be a point to having him around.

[nhldave]

First let me say I'm a father and have attended the births of not only my kids but some of theirs too.

I hope that qualifies my gene pool to continue:D

I agree Luongo has been overused this season. What should have happened is that the team, knowing how difficult the Luongo pregnancy thing has been, should have planned better and used him more sparingly. Of course that would require having a reliable back up which I really don't know if Sanford is.

But they didn't so here are the Canucks teetering on extinction at a cost to the team of millions in revenue and who knows how much fan angst.

Having said all that I think Luongo's place is with his team, not in Florida, unless there is risk or danger to his wife. I hope that is not the case. The reality is that many more fathers have not been present for the birth of their kids than have been.The families survive just fine. Hell it's not been so long since they stopped fathers from going anywhere near their wives at birth.

Luongo is a professional athlete paid millions for his services. In exchange for a lifetime of luxury that will grant him, his wife and how ever many kids he has is it so much to ask that he stay with the team until they are assured of a playoff spot?

Anyway hopefully this is much ado about nothing, the baby is delivered safely and a happy, relieved and renergised Luongo is back in net tomorrow night. After delivering his baby he can then deliver the Canucks...to the playoffs at least.

RIP Toronto Maple Leafs...again.

[rustybadcock]

First let me say I'm a father and have attended the births of not only my kids but some of theirs too.

I hope that qualifies my gene pool to continue:D

I agree Luongo has been overused this season. What should have happened is that the team, knowing how difficult the Luongo pregnancy thing has been, should have planned better and used him more sparingly. Of course that would require having a reliable back up which I really don't know if Sanford is.

But they didn't so here are the Canucks teetering on extinction at a cost to the team of millions in revenue and who knows how much fan angst.

Having said all that I think Luongo's place is with his team, not in Florida, unless there is risk or danger to his wife. I hope that is not the case. The reality is that many more fathers have not been present for the birth of their kids than have been.The families survive just fine. Hell it's not been so long since they stopped fathers from going anywhere near their wives at birth.

Luongo is a professional athlete paid millions for his services. In exchange for a lifetime of luxury that will grant him, his wife and how ever many kids he has is it so much to ask that he stay with the team until they are assured of a playoff spot?

Anyway hopefully this is much ado about nothing, the baby is delivered safely and a happy, relieved and renergised Luongo is back in net tomorrow night. After delivering his baby he can then deliver the Canucks...to the playoffs at least.

RIP Toronto Maple Leafs...again.

Never thought of it in this way, great post.

RB

[KB in Kelowna]

It was a baby girl, 7lbs and 6 oz, named Gabriella, and Luongo took the morning skate in St.Paul. Perhaps he wil be more focused now ? However the other problem that has plagued the Canucks is not so much the rebounds but the poor defensive zone coverage by a team once lauded for its commitment to play in their own end, that and the other woes I mentioned earlier.

[TimmyTabasco]

For one minute, lets go across the grain...

Luongo

Remember last season, he was great, always talking to the media..positive attitude?

This season he doesn't speak much with the media, and comes across as being grumpy or whatever else

Perhaps he's tired of the losing streaks, and the inconsistency..

Reminding himself of Florida, thought this team had better promise.. he's unhappy..his family is in Florida..

Perhaps its just the birth of his child, and he's not focused

Who knows, but he doesn't seem like the same leader from last season

Open for discussion

[KB in Kelowna]

For one minute, lets go across the grain...

Luongo

Remember last season, he was great, always talking to the media..positive attitude?

This season he doesn't speak much with the media, and comes across as being grumpy or whatever else

Perhaps he's tired of the losing streaks, and the inconsistency..

Reminding himself of Florida, thought this team had better promise.. he's unhappy..his family is in Florida..

Perhaps its just the birth of his child, and he's not focused

Who knows, but he doesn't seem like the same leader from last season

Open for discussion

I think there is a problem in the room, the leadership is not there, people who should be clutch haven't been. Look at last night Joe Sackic socres a huge goal for Colorado in the shoot out, Markus Naslund hasn't looked good in a shoot out or penalty shot situtations all season! The other night in Calgary Jarome Iginla is the catalyst for the Flames comeback in the second period. Among the big money skaters on the Canucks right now they do not have such a guy. The rah rah guys seem to be an old 38 year old Trevor Linden, an injured Brendan Morrison and Willie Mitchell, who is not gifted with soft hands nor booming shot of an offensive power house.

Dave Nonis has been content to pick up waiver wire cast offs and 4th line role players. He has argued the cost of bold moves would be too high. Yet other teams that are successful are not afraid to trade emerging stars to recieve value in return. Nonis's commitment to the "core" of this team must end now. He should listen to any and all offers that come his way regarding any roster player or prospect not named Roberto this off season.

As for Luongo, obviously he is frustrated. He is passionate about being the best and winning. He grew up in Montreal and knows what a winning organization is and should be. With his wife in Florida to be with her family during what was, from reports I read. a complicated pregnancy, he was probably lonely for much of the year. He may be a professional athlete, but he is also a human being. This season where the team appears to have taken a huge step back would affect anyone's outlook and disposition.

[AtLossForWords]

If you guys are looking for a leader, why not start with the franchise player?

This team has been in a tough situation the past week, and their best player has contributed nothing to elevating the team to the level of play they need to be.

You can talk all you want that a team that plays the way the Canucks have lately don't deserve to have a world class goaltender like Luongo behind them to pull their asses out of the fire anyway, but I don't think anyone was saying that last season, and it's pretty much the same bunch of guys.

Luongo's statistics are very similar to last year's, but last year he was an MVP candidate, and this season he might not even sniff a Vezina nomination.

Roberto has simply not been his best when he has needed to be his best. When this team is in the close game and can't quite push for that last goal, Roberto has been the goalie who gives up the next one that takes his team out of the game. Can we expect Luongo to be perfect? No we sure as hell can not, but we can say that when we have the better goalie, this team should be winning more shootouts than losing. They shouldn't be losing a one goal game in the third period, they should be the team that has their goalie bail them out to OT.

The bottom line is that it isn't just Markus Naslund, Sami Salo, and the Sedins to blame for this team's roller coaster ride in the standings this year. Roberto Luongo needs to be held accountable too.

To a certain extent there's a rightful reluctancy to blame the goaltender for losing a 2-1 game or a 3-2 game, because he isn't the guy who scores. However in games that are that close, no team is doing an impressive job of lighting the lamp, but their guy in net is getting it done.

Look at the last time Minnesota was in Vancouver. The only way to explain why this team lost 2-1 when they were buzzing the Wild's crease all night is because Backstrom outplayed Luongo. With many of these close games with Colorado that have ended up 3-2 and 2-1 the difference in the game is that Theodore made the save that Luongo didn't and his team was rewarded for it.

Luongo has done great things for this hockey team since he has landed here, but he's not a hockey god, and he certainly isn't any more immune from criticism than Markus Naslund is.

If we want to talk about players who showed up for this team, Naslund did it for years. He was the leading scorer in the league from like what '01-'04? If we just want to grace players for what they have already done for us, no one would be criticizing Naslund's lack of offense, because he provided it for years and Gordphish would get off Linden's back, but that's not the way it is supposed to be.

When guys don't do what you expect them to, they are worthy of criticism. Luongo is expected to outplay the guy in the other crease, and he hasn't done that during this stretch run, and he really hasn't done much ever since he had that rib injury.

[gordphish]

If you guys are looking for a leader, why not start with the franchise player?

This team has been in a tough situation the past week, and their best player has contributed nothing to elevating the team to the level of play they need to be.

You can talk all you want that a team that plays the way the Canucks have lately don't deserve to have a world class goaltender like Luongo behind them to pull their asses out of the fire anyway, but I don't think anyone was saying that last season, and it's pretty much the same bunch of guys.

Luongo's statistics are very similar to last year's, but last year he was an MVP candidate, and this season he might not even sniff a Vezina nomination.

Roberto has simply not been his best when he has needed to be his best. When this team is in the close game and can't quite push for that last goal, Roberto has been the goalie who gives up the next one that takes his team out of the game. Can we expect Luongo to be perfect? No we sure as hell can not, but we can say that when we have the better goalie, this team should be winning more shootouts than losing. They shouldn't be losing a one goal game in the third period, they should be the team that has their goalie bail them out to OT.

The bottom line is that it isn't just Markus Naslund, Sami Salo, and the Sedins to blame for this team's roller coaster ride in the standings this year. Roberto Luongo needs to be held accountable too.

To a certain extent there's a rightful reluctancy to blame the goaltender for losing a 2-1 game or a 3-2 game, because he isn't the guy who scores. However in games that are that close, no team is doing an impressive job of lighting the lamp, but their guy in net is getting it done.

Look at the last time Minnesota was in Vancouver. The only way to explain why this team lost 2-1 when they were buzzing the Wild's crease all night is because Backstrom outplayed Luongo. With many of these close games with Colorado that have ended up 3-2 and 2-1 the difference in the game is that Theodore made the save that Luongo didn't and his team was rewarded for it.

Luongo has done great things for this hockey team since he has landed here, but he's not a hockey god, and he certainly isn't any more immune from criticism than Markus Naslund is.

If we want to talk about players who showed up for this team, Naslund did it for years. He was the leading scorer in the league from like what '01-'04? If we just want to grace players for what they have already done for us, no one would be criticizing Naslund's lack of offense, because he provided it for years and Gordphish would get off Linden's back, but that's not the way it is supposed to be.

When guys don't do what you expect them to, they are worthy of criticism. Luongo is expected to outplay the guy in the other crease, and he hasn't done that during this stretch run, and he really hasn't done much ever since he had that rib injury.

Naslund, C. Morrison, A. Ohlund, A. Linden, A.

There is your problem right there, and has been for years. How much phucking longer managment needs to be hit over the head with that is anybody's guess. Probably right until Nonis is fired and well into Tambellini's tenure.

LUONGO IS NOT THE PROBLEM. He wasn't the reason they bowed out in the second round last year, and he's not the reason they are going to miss the playoffs this year. It's not his fault the leadership on this team is the weakest in the NHL. It's not his fault the team is soft as a stick of butter left on the counter in the middle of August, and it's certainly not his fault this team can't score. For chrissake, 65 nights out of the season you only have to score three goals to win with Luongo in goal, even when he's underachieving. Only in Vancouver could they amass a group of pussies and morons stupid enough to phuck that up. Well OK, maybe in Toronto too, but you get the point.

TIME TO GUT THE CORE. Naslund, Morrison, Linden and Ohlund should all have played or be playing their last game as Canucks in the next week. And throw the Sedins and Salo in with them. No more mister nice guy, whipped dog Swedish hockey. Period.

If Nonis can't or won't do that, then boot his ass out of here. In fact, were I Acquillini, I'd fire the entire staff of the hockey club and replace them all with the entire Vancouver Giants staff, top to bottom. There is a franchise that gets what Vancouver hockey fans want from their team.

[AtLossForWords]

Naslund, C. Morrison, A. Ohlund, A. Linden, A.

There is your problem right there, and has been for years. How much phucking longer managment needs to be hit over the head with that is anybody's guess. Probably right until Nonis is fired and well into Tambellini's tenure.

LUONGO IS NOT THE PROBLEM. He wasn't the reason they bowed out in the second round last year, and he's not the reason they are going to miss the playoffs this year. It's not his fault the leadership on this team is the weakest in the NHL. It's not his fault the team is soft as a stick of butter left on the counter in the middle of August, and it's certainly not his fault this team can't score. For chrissake, 65 nights out of the season you only have to score three goals to win with Luongo in goal, even when he's underachieving. Only in Vancouver could they amass a group of pussies and morons stupid enough to phuck that up. Well OK, maybe in Toronto too, but you get the point.

TIME TO GUT THE CORE. Naslund, Morrison, Linden and Ohlund should all have played or be playing their last game as Canucks in the next week. And throw the Sedins and Salo in with them. No more mister nice guy, whipped dog Swedish hockey. Period.

If Nonis can't or won't do that, then boot his ass out of here. In fact, were I Acquillini, I'd fire the entire staff of the hockey club and replace them all with the entire Vancouver Giants staff, top to bottom. There is a franchise that gets what Vancouver hockey fans want from their team.


This team needs changes big time, and that may finally be able to happen this Summer. Sadly this lack of leadership, heart, toughness, and whatever else we complain about all started with a deal that all of us would have made.

When Naslund was signed for three seasons at six million, that sealed the fate of this team for the next three years. I don't see why Nonis would've thought this move would've played out this way. Naslund was the league's leading scorer from '01-'04 with a Pearson Trophy to his credit and a division title under his belt.

Any GM would be considered a fool if he told his franchise player bye-bye at that point. Granted Nonis would've looked like a genius if Naslund signed in say Philly and had the same three years over there, but who knows how that would've played out.

I'd say exploding this team is exactly what needs to happen, because Naslund is too old to play a major role, Morrison brings nothing of value to this team, and Linden should retire. He can damn well have a job with the team if he wants, but he has come of age and his time is done.

If this team could go out and sign Daymond Langkow that would be a great step in the right direction. If they could trade the Sedins for a top line talent like LeCavalier or Malkin that would be the best direction they could go.

To fix the problems for this team, they are going to need a new top line and new centers. It's damn hard to pry a talent like LeCavalier, Staal, Malkin, or even Niklas Backstrom from any team, but anyone is available at the right price.

Whoever this GM is over the Summer, they are going to have to get a piece they can build around and be prepared to give up something of value. I don't even mind if they keep Markus Naslund and Mattias Ohlund around. If Naslund comes at a good paycut and is no longer the captain of this team. However who knows whether he wants to stay and play a supporting role like that on the second line.

If you really want to talk about how this team screwed themselves and made a terrible decision that they shouldn't have made to begin with, it was drafting Luc Bourdon. Passing on Kopitar may have cripled this franchise for years. To have drafted that playmaking talent and locked him up here long term would have been exactly what this team needed, but they "f" bombed up big time by passing on him. Even more so than the Markus Naslund signing, this decision really hurt our franchise.

[gordphish]

This team needs changes big time, and that may finally be able to happen this Summer. Sadly this lack of leadership, heart, toughness, and whatever else we complain about all started with a deal that all of us would have made.

When Naslund was signed for three seasons at six million, that sealed the fate of this team for the next three years. I don't see why Nonis would've thought this move would've played out this way. Naslund was the league's leading scorer from '01-'04 with a Pearson Trophy to his credit and a division title under his belt.

Any GM would be considered a fool if he told his franchise player bye-bye at that point. Granted Nonis would've looked like a genius if Naslund signed in say Philly and had the same three years over there, but who knows how that would've played out.

I'd say exploding this team is exactly what needs to happen, because Naslund is too old to play a major role, Morrison brings nothing of value to this team, and Linden should retire. He can damn well have a job with the team if he wants, but he has come of age and his time is done.

If this team could go out and sign Daymond Langkow that would be a great step in the right direction. If they could trade the Sedins for a top line talent like LeCavalier or Malkin that would be the best direction they could go.

To fix the problems for this team, they are going to need a new top line and new centers. It's damn hard to pry a talent like LeCavalier, Staal, Malkin, or even Niklas Backstrom from any team, but anyone is available at the right price.

Whoever this GM is over the Summer, they are going to have to get a piece they can build around and be prepared to give up something of value. I don't even mind if they keep Markus Naslund and Mattias Ohlund around. If Naslund comes at a good paycut and is no longer the captain of this team. However who knows whether he wants to stay and play a supporting role like that on the second line.

If you really want to talk about how this team screwed themselves and made a terrible decision that they shouldn't have made to begin with, it was drafting Luc Bourdon. Passing on Kopitar may have cripled this franchise for years. To have drafted that playmaking talent and locked him up here long term would have been exactly what this team needed, but they f'd up big time by passing on him. Even more so than the Markus Naslund signing, this decision really hurt our franchise.

And you know Lossy, I said exactly that at hockeyforums the day they drafted Bourdon. My words were something to the effect of "Nonis may have sealed his fate as GM before the team has even played one game with him as GM by not taking a centre".

[AtLossForWords]

And you know Lossy, I said exactly that at hockeyforums the day they drafted Bourdon. My words were something to the effect of "Nonis may have sealed his fate as GM before the team has even played one game with him as GM by not taking a centre".

We could even say Nonis chose not to meet his team's #1 need by passing on Kopitar. Since it was his choice of whether to draft him or not.:pimp:

Maybe we should keep ragging on the leadership everyday now, it seemed to get to them tonight against Calgary!:laughing:

[nhldave]

Panic merchants one and all.

The Canucks are still an excellent team with lots of leadership and guts.

How else do you explain a team who lost it's entire starting defense for extended periods throughout the season but who will still finish only a few points shy of their best season ever and even have a shot at 1st place in their division. They have arguably the best goalie in the league who worked under emormous personal stress all year long, was obviously under more pressure because of the defense injuries and still has the third best record last time I looked at the records.

And no guts! Did you not see Cowan take on that monster from Minnesota the other night? Are not the Canucks tied with Calgary and Anaheim for the most fights?

This team won't win the Stanley Cup but blow it up? I don't think so. Move Naslund, Linden and Morrison along yes but by all means build on the rest.

[rustybadcock]

Panic merchants one and all.

The Canucks are still an excellent team with lots of leadership and guts.

How else do you explain a team who lost it's entire starting defense for extended periods throughout the season but who will still finish only a few points shy of their best season ever and even have a shot at 1st place in their division. They have arguably the best goalie in the league who worked under emormous personal stress all year long, was obviously under more pressure because of the defense injuries and still has the third best record last time I looked at the records.

And no guts! Did you not see Cowan take on that monster from Minnesota the other night? Are not the Canucks tied with Calgary and Anaheim for the most fights?

This team won't win the Stanley Cup but blow it up? I don't think so. Move Naslund, Linden and Morrison along yes but by all means build on the rest.

Agreed, sounds very familiar to things I've been saying along the way these days. :thumb:

[gordphish]

Panic merchants one and all.

The Canucks are still an excellent team with lots of leadership and guts.

How else do you explain a team who lost it's entire starting defense for extended periods throughout the season but who will still finish only a few points shy of their best season ever and even have a shot at 1st place in their division. They have arguably the best goalie in the league who worked under emormous personal stress all year long, was obviously under more pressure because of the defense injuries and still has the third best record last time I looked at the records.

And no guts! Did you not see Cowan take on that monster from Minnesota the other night? Are not the Canucks tied with Calgary and Anaheim for the most fights?

This team won't win the Stanley Cup but blow it up? I don't think so. Move Naslund, Linden and Morrison along yes but by all means build on the rest.

Bullsh1t.

Here we are in the spring once more, and this group is mailing it in AGAIN. Last night's effort only serves to underline my point. Where was the fight in their game in the last game against Calgary? Where was it when the Flames were taking shots at Luongo then? Where was this effort the last two games when Colorado and Minnesota came out and skated circles around them?

I don't give a rat's ass who is injured and for how long. Win or lose, I expect efforts like that out of them every phucking night no matter who is in the line up, and it should be an absolute given once the calendar hits March 1st. How many times with this core have we sat here and bemoaned their lack of effort, determination and leadership at this point of the season, year after goddamn year?

But if you want to drink the blue and green kool-aid and once again excuse this team because of the injuries, have fun with it. Not me. That game in Calgary was the last straw. I will not cheer for a team that bends over like they did against a division rival in a game of that magnitude. This team has no heart and no character. And I don't care how many fighting majors they have when they put their tails between their legs whenever the going gets tough.

This team is too Swedish because its core is Swedish. For the most part, Swedes should be secondary players because they just don't get what it takes to win in the NHL. They rely on systems that lower better teams to their level, and when the time calls for them to step up their effort, they either start taking lazy penalties or disappear altogether. The Canucks are lead by four Swedes and two Canadians that I'm ashamed to call countrymen in Linden and Morrison. Their core is made up of pussies, and thus the entire team reflects that.

[TimmyTabasco]

Hmm..Dave does have a point with the injuries

-Kraijeck
-Ohlund
-Morrison
-Miller

These guys are all out..but the team is still in 8th place

Thats one of your top two defenseman, and two of your bottom two defenseman

Plus, your second line center

AND, a franchise player who is regressing..

So..lets not forget the injuries before calling out the Canucks

Sure, they could be better..and playing better..but they are really banged up

[AtLossForWords]

I think I have to agree with Gord here, most importantly because this core has not gotten the job done in the playoffs, and they have had a number of chances to do so. The same pieces will not get different results.

This team is good early in the season and then they pack it in come March and later ending up with nothing. If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup, this team needs to find ways to get better each season they don't win, and lets take a look at what happened around the Northwest division this summer.

The Canucks signed Miller, Isbister, and Ritchie.

The Avalanche signed Smyth and Hannan.

The Flames traded for Adrian Aucoin and made Keenan coach.

The Oilers signed Penner and Souray along with trading for Pitkanen.

The Wild seemed to stand pat as they always do.

Minnesota is for the first time winning the Northwest division this season. So I wouldn't consider them to be a gleeming beam of hockey excellence. Other than Minnesota, the Canucks were the only team not to add a significant name to their lineup.

When names like Smyth, Souray, Pitkanen, Aucoin, and Hannan are coming to your division rivals in order to stay in the hunt you have to get better. I don't remember the Canucks winning the division by a mile last season, so there's no reason to think that they were an example of how a winner needs no changes when the competition gets tough.

To make matters worse, while guys like Aucoin and Keenan have achieved more than most would've thought they would this year, the Canucks additions of Ritchie, Miller, and Isbister could damn well have contributed less than we thought they would.

I hate to say it but Brian Burke this season is the best example of keeping a winning team competitive. He signed Schnieder and Bertuzzi as insurance for Niedermayer and Selanne, and now he has all four. The Ducks may damn well be a better team this season than they were last season. If this team wasn't good enough to be the Cup Champs last season, then how could they beat them in the playoffs this year?

Compare what Nonis did to most GMs in his own division and around the Western Conference, and he had the smallest gain with the biggest need.

Nonis' absolute failure to add scoring to this team should mean his ass. A good GM doesn't sit out their with the same product hoping for a different result, meaning they don't sit around for a year thinking a solution is going to drop into their laptop. They go out and FIND a solution.

The core of this team just does not win, they need to find a different team to get them to the Stanley Cup. Guys like Luongo, Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Mitchell, and I'd say Mattias Ohlund can be good parts to start with, but there needs to be some major changes to this team's top lines.

Naslund, the Sedins, Morrison, Salo, and Bieksa either need to be moved or find a different role on this team.

The Sedins have shown based on this March and last Spring in the playoffs that they are not an effective top line. They will not come up big for this team when they are desparate. Find a way to make them second line players or move them out of town. If this team has the Sedins as their top line next summer, then toss out your hopes of a Stanley Cup.

Markus Naslund is no longer a franchise player. If you bring in a new franchise forward, Naslund could be a good secondary scorer who can shift inbetween the top two lines depending on a number of different factors. This hopefully isn't news to anyone.

Nonis likely isn't going to move Salo or Ohlund, but he should be able to move Kevin Bieksa. Is Salo stays, they need to find a way to get him out of a shutdown role and cut his minutes. He's effective as a PP quarterback and working the top line out of its own zone with a first pass. They can't expect him to log twenty minutes a game and be effective all year long. Salo can play a variety of roles, but he can't be demanded to play all of them every night. If he needs to take a shift or two against a guy like Iginla or Thornton so be it, but not all game long where's he's being beat up on the forecheck.

The core here needs to go, because too many of them are in roles they can't play. They either don't have the ability (in the case of the Sedins), or they don't have the endurance (in the case of Salo). Imagine how the Sedins could fit like a glove in Pittsburgh behind Crosby's line? Imagine how Salo could fit in San Jose where his minutes could be cut and his role be specialized?

Nonis needs to make some deals that will give him the ability to retool his team where the right guys are playing the right roles, and I damn well blame him for putting guys into situations where they can't succeed.

[Nelson19777]

Panic merchants one and all.

The Canucks are still an excellent team with lots of leadership and guts.

How else do you explain a team who lost it's entire starting defense for extended periods throughout the season but who will still finish only a few points shy of their best season ever and even have a shot at 1st place in their division. They have arguably the best goalie in the league who worked under emormous personal stress all year long, was obviously under more pressure because of the defense injuries and still has the third best record last time I looked at the records.

And no guts! Did you not see Cowan take on that monster from Minnesota the other night? Are not the Canucks tied with Calgary and Anaheim for the most fights?

This team won't win the Stanley Cup but blow it up? I don't think so. Move Naslund, Linden and Morrison along yes but by all means build on the rest.

Thanks for the post. It's been a while since I read something that actually doesn't send me into a rant about how some people in this thread are so god dam overdramatic. They sound like schizophrenic teenagers.

They should just give up being sports fans altogether, never mind a Canuck one. Get over it. There isn't a team in this league that could live up to some of the expectations around here.

Whine, whine, whine, it's all I hear. I've heard it so much they've lost my respect. We aren't blind or stupid we can all see the problems. Same as last year. First line dollars are being spent for third line production. Naslund and Morrison are done. Linden will retire. We'll move on, we'll be fine.

Call me what you want. I call it being a fan. A fan supports his team and doesn’t look for every possible chance to cut them down. You take the ups and the downs, but you stand by your team.

Gut em all, fire everyone, rah, rah, rah, I'm phucking sick of it. What exactly is that a fan of?

[gordphish]

Thanks for the post. It's been a while since I read something that actually doesn't send me into a rant about how some people in this thread are so god dam overdramatic. They sound like schizophrenic teenagers.

They should just give up being sports fans altogether, never mind a Canuck one. Get over it. There isn't a team in this league that could live up to some of the expectations around here.

Whine, whine, whine, it's all I hear. I've heard it so much they've lost my respect. We aren't blind or stupid we can all see the problems. Same as last year. First line dollars are being spent for third line production. Naslund and Morrison are done. Linden will retire. We'll move on, we'll be fine.

Call me what you want. I call it being a fan. A fan supports his team and doesn’t look for every possible chance to cut them down. You take the ups and the downs, but you stand by your team.

Gut em all, fire everyone, rah, rah, rah, I'm phucking sick of it. What exactly is that a fan of?

You don't phucking like it, then don't come here any more. If I'm an overdramatic whiner then that makes you a blind and pathetic sheep. Either way, I can name call with the best of them if you want to, arsehole.

But it doesn't surprise me in the least that this team has a whole heard of brainless twits like you supporting them. 200+ straight sellouts for a mediocre bunch of pussies that can't even make the playoffs is proof of that.

[Nelson19777]

You don't phucking like it, then don't come here any more. If I'm an overdramatic whiner then that makes you a blind and pathetic sheep. Either way, I can name call with the best of them if you want to, arsehole.

But it doesn't surprise me in the least that this team has a whole heard of brainless twits like you supporting them. 200+ straight sellouts for a mediocre bunch of pussies that can't even make the playoffs is proof of that.

Whatever. Why do you even follow this team? You hate the whole goddamn organization, the GM, Coach, Captain, Alternate Captains and at least half of the rest of the team. Why do you even waste your time?

Right, I remember now. You do it cause your the most hardcore fan this team has ever seen and the rest of us are sheep. Well I've got news for ya, your not a fan, your a friggin critic. You haven't had a positive thing to say about this team since I joined HF 3 years ago. And when someone makes a positive comment about something good (ala Shannon before he was taken out), you just shut them down and come up with something negative to say.

Quit wasting your time. Your life must be pretty miserable when all you can see is the negative. I'll give it to ya. Sometimes your right. But most of the time you just expect way too much.

[AtLossForWords]

Well Nelson, instead of calling those of us who have some complaints (which I think we've reasonably supported) whiners, why don't you address what we have to say instead of forming hypothetical constructs about how any of our lives are?

If you're such a great headshrink, why don't you open up a thread on psychoanalysis so that we can be an audience to your great scope of human understanding?

In short stop construing what type of lives we lead and tell us why the Canucks have done such a great job this season?

[nhldave]

Bullsh1t.




I think 21 of the players who finished last season, their all time best ever season are still with the team today.

How could they be as bad as you suggest now yet so good at this time last year?

[gordphish]

Whatever. Why do you even follow this team? You hate the whole goddamn organization, the GM, Coach, Captain, Alternate Captains and at least half of the rest of the team. Why do you even waste your time?

Right, I remember now. You do it cause your the most hardcore fan this team has ever seen and the rest of us are sheep. Well I've got news for ya, your not a fan, your a friggin critic. You haven't had a positive thing to say about this team since I joined HF 3 years ago. And when someone makes a positive comment about something good (ala Shannon before he was taken out), you just shut them down and come up with something negative to say.

Quit wasting your time. Your life must be pretty miserable when all you can see is the negative. I'll give it to ya. Sometimes your right. But most of the time you just expect way too much.

You know, I was going to respond to this with pointing out the times I caught a whole boatload of flack for putting Willie Mitchell's name in for the Norris last season, or about how I was the ONLY one of ANY of you that picked them to make the playoffs last year, or the way I spent most of this season defending Markus Naslund whenever flyerfan2 started questioning his leadership.

But that last comment was so utterly moronic, so completely defeatist and so pointedly at the heart of the problem with all the meathead fans of this team that swallow the mediocre garbage this club spoon feeds you year after year, I figured I wouldn't bother to dignify such stupidity with a reply.

I tell you what buddy. Why don't you cheer for another team. Somebody like the Florida Panthers, where no one really gives a rat's ass what they do on the ice, or what used blow up sheep dolls like you think about them.

[gordphish]

I think 21 of the players who finished last season, their all time best ever season are still with the team today.

How could they be as bad as you suggest now yet so good at this time last year?

They weren't so good this time last year. They were blowing 2-goal third period leads at home left right and centre, let yet another team up off the mat and almost blew another 3-1 series lead, and then pretty much shat the bed against Anaheim. That's my point. Try to stay with the tour, would you dave?

Or maybe you've just conveniently forgot those parts of last year, and the same reruns from the year before that, and the year before that, and so on and so forth. God knows I'd like to.

[Nelson19777]

Well Nelson, instead of calling those of us who have some complaints (which I think we've reasonably supported) whiners, why don't you address what we have to say instead of forming hypothetical constructs about how any of our lives are?

If you're such a great headshrink, why don't you open up a thread on psychoanalysis so that we can be an audience to your great scope of human understanding?

In short stop construing what type of lives we lead and tell us why the Canucks have done such a great job this season?

Why? Why, you ask because everytime someone does they recieve a profound response like:

Bullsh1t.

Or such great repeats as:

But if you want to drink the blue and green kool-aid....

That's why. Keep on kissing the great Gordos a$$ he loves it because if your not sucking up everything he has to say than your just a "sheep". God forbid someonelse has an opinion.

[Nelson19777]

You know, I was going to respond to this with pointing out the times I caught a whole boatload of flack for putting Willie Mitchell's name in for the Norris last season, or about how I was the ONLY one of ANY of you that picked them to make the playoffs last year, or the way I spent most of this season defending Markus Naslund whenever flyerfan2 started questioning his leadership.

But that last comment was so utterly moronic, so completely defeatist and so pointedly at the heart of the problem with all the meathead fans of this team that swallow the mediocre garbage this club spoon feeds you year after year, I figured I wouldn't bother to dignify such stupidity with a reply.

I tell you what buddy. Why don't you cheer for another team. Somebody like the Florida Panthers, where no one really gives a rat's ass what they do on the ice, or what used blow up sheep dolls like you think about them.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One day you love him the next you hate him. YOU'VE questioned his leadership twice already in this thread alone. Flyerfan can't do it, but when you do it, it's fine.

Why don't I cheer for another team? Why don't you? You obviously don't like this one.

[gordphish]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One day you love him the next you hate him. YOU'VE questioned his leadership twice already in this thread alone. Flyerfan can't do it, but when you do it, it's fine.

Why don't I cheer for another team? Why don't you? You obviously don't like this one.

When have I ever said Dougie can't have an opinion? Or dave? Or anyone for that matter? I disagree with Tabasco almost all the time, and Lossy and Rusty on more than several occasions, and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

And dave was the one who called me a panic merchant. So it's OK for other people to start throwing slurs in my direction, but not for me to respond? A little hypocritical, don't you think?

I come on these sights and give my opinions. If I support the Canucks I get called a homer. If I start being critical, I get called a band-wagon jumper and have pinheads like you jump down my throat.

I am nobody's fool because I don't fool myself. On many occasions with this team, my passion guides me. I won't apologize for that to the likes of you or anyone else. If you don't like what I have to say, too phucking bad. No one is pointing a gun to your head to make you come here and read my posts.

[rustybadcock]

When have I ever said Dougie can't have an opinion? Or dave? Or anyone for that matter? I disagree with Tabasco almost all the time, and Lossy and Rusty on more than several occasions, and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

And dave was the one who called me a panic merchant. So it's OK for other people to start throwing slurs in my direction, but not for me to respond? A little hypocritical, don't you think?

I come on these sights and give my opinions. If I support the Canucks I get called a homer. If I start being critical, I get called a band-wagon jumper and have pinheads like you jump down my throat.

I am nobody's fool because I don't fool myself. On many occasions with this team, my passion guides me. I won't apologize for that to the likes of you or anyone else. If you don't like what have I say, too phucking bad. No one is pointing a gun to your head to make you come here and read my posts.

Bullshi1 ! It pisses me right off when you don't agree with me.


;) ;) :D :)

JK, just thought it was time for a joke around here.

RB

[gordphish]

Bullshi1 ! It pisses me right off when you don't agree with me.


;) ;) :D :)

JK, just thought it was time for a joke around here.

RB

LOL...careful Rusty. A sense of humour could be construed as a form of individuality and indicate a lack of conformity. You don't want the brown shirts kicking in your door.

[AtLossForWords]

That's why. Keep on kissing the great Gordos a$$ he loves it because if your not sucking up everything he has to say than your just a "sheep". God forbid someonelse has an opinion.

I think there is a distinction between agreeing with someone on a particular point and kissing there ass. I don't agree with everything that anyone has to say anywhere, and that's just the typical human condition.

Opinions on hockey must not matter to you, because you seem to post more about people who make posts about hockey than actually participating in a discussion about hockey.

Maybe if you gave me some decent reasons on why i or anyone else shouldn't be chastizing this team for the way they've played this season I might agree with you or as you prefer to call it "kiss your ass". However I don't see much of anything like that from you because you're too busy commenting on everyone's personality instead of the Vancouver Canucks hockey franchise.

[nhldave]

They weren't so good this time last year. They were blowing 2-goal third period leads at home left right and centre, let yet another team up off the mat and almost blew another 3-1 series lead, and then pretty much shat the bed against Anaheim. That's my point. Try to stay with the tour, would you dave?

Or maybe you've just conveniently forgot those parts of last year, and the same reruns from the year before that, and the year before that, and so on and so forth. God knows I'd like to.

No I haven't forgotten the let downs last season but surely you agree they were, overall, an excellent team last year and that almost all of those same guys are with the team now.

There is no shame in the fact they lost to the eventual Stanley Cup winners.

For several seasons I have been saying send Linden to the office and now I think it's time to add Naslund to that list and maybe Morrison although I think he may have a couple seasons left as a third line center.

But I'm stunned that you think Bieksa should go too. What little he has played this season has not been good but I think the injury had as much to do with that as perhaps the fabled "sophomore" jinx. I'd definitely count him in my top 4 for next season.

The Canucks last season scored 222 goals and allowed 201. This season with 2 games to go they have scored 211 times and allowed 206. And yet this year they struggle for their playoff lives while last they set a club record for points.

What's the difference? Are they losers, gutless, no character slugs? No I don't think so. The difference as I said before is the injury plagued season the defence has had. Eventually that kind of thing catches up to even the best teams. Time and again, especially in the stretch their defense has simply broken down. While other teams have stepped it up a notch the Canucks have nothing left. A great example of that is Daniel Sedin on the offensive side and once possible rookie of the year candidate Edler on the other. Both have fallen far from the standard they set earlier in the season.

But I'm willing to give this team a pass on this year, hope there are few injuries next year, that management does try to get a little more scoring over the summer and a bigger tougher guy or two for the 4th line.

[gordphish]

No I haven't forgotten the let downs last season but surely you agree they were, overall, an excellent team last year and that almost all of those same guys are with the team now.

There is no shame in the fact they lost to the eventual Stanley Cup winners.

For several seasons I have been saying send Linden to the office and now I think it's time to add Naslund to that list and maybe Morrison although I think he may have a couple seasons left as a third line center.

But I'm stunned that you think Bieksa should go too. What little he has played this season has not been good but I think the injury had as much to do with that as perhaps the fabled "sophomore" jinx. I'd definitely count him in my top 4 for next season.

The Canucks last season scored 222 goals and allowed 201. This season with 2 games to go they have scored 211 times and allowed 206. And yet this year they struggle for their playoff lives while last they set a club record for points.

What's the difference? Are they losers, gutless, no character slugs? No I don't think so. The difference as I said before is the injury plagued season the defence has had. Eventually that kind of thing catches up to even the best teams. Time and again, especially in the stretch their defense has simply broken down. While other teams have stepped it up a notch the Canucks have nothing left. A great example of that is Daniel Sedin on the offensive side and once possible rookie of the year candidate Edler on the other. Both have fallen far from the standard they set earlier in the season.

But I'm willing to give this team a pass on this year, hope there are few injuries next year, that management does try to get a little more scoring over the summer and a bigger tougher guy or two for the 4th line.

Every team has to deal with injuries, or adversity of some sort. It is how you respond in the face of that adversity that defines your character. As I've said, the game in Calgary was the last straw for me. They turtled when the Flames came at them physically, and then followed it with two of their worst games of the season when they needed points the most.

They were embarrassed at home by the Flyers 8-2 back in October. They had that 6-2 loss to the Avs, at home, where they just up quit after the Avs scored to make it 1-0. As soon as the Avs turned the momentum with a PP goal in that last game, AGAIN they just up and quit and handed the game to Colorado.

There were too many games like that this year, where the effort just wasn't there or they up and folded at the first sign of adversity. And that was something that crept into their game at the end of last season. And don't forget, they only really had three good months last season. Until Christmas, they were right where they are now.

This team has poor leadership, it's small and soft, and has no mental toughness to speak of. And it's been like this throughout this core's time here. Time to gut it and move on.

As for the Bieksa comment, I'm not going to rehash that again. You obviously haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying all year regarding him. Maybe Rusty feels up to taking the time to explain my points to you. I don't.

[AtLossForWords]

While other teams have stepped it up a notch the Canucks have nothing left. A great example of that is Daniel Sedin on the offensive side and once possible rookie of the year candidate Edler on the other. Both have fallen far from the standard they set earlier in the season.


Edler is young and likely wearing down from the long season the same way Bieksa had last year. His point totals slowed significantly after the all star break. Ever since Ohlund went down, the defense as a whole has been on their heels. They have trouble defending any kind of rush odd man or even when the forwards are sitting back enough to help out. They leave Luongo exposed.

The Sedins are another story. I don't think they should be on our roster next year if the right deal can be made. They don't produce well when they have the pressure of being the top line going up against the league's best shutdown forwards and defenseman. They could produce against good defensive teams in Dallas and Anaheim in the playoffs, and I don't even want to mention how small they have been during this stretch run.

In big games the Sedins come up small at best.

[gordphish]

I heard Mitchell on the Team yesterday, and he sounds like someone ran over his dog. I like Mitchell, but for chrissakes...I'm not upset, Willie, I'M PISSED OFF. And that's what the team should be now. Phuck this Linden attitude of keeping an even keel. You guys don't have a tomorrow left. Be pissed. Play pissed. Come out and go after the Oilers physically until THEY turn tail and run.

And then I hear Nonis today on the morning show. You know what he said? He said that they are right where they expected to be at the start of the season. What the phuck does that tell you? The GM didn't expect to improve on last season and make a run in the playoffs. He expected them to be a .500 team that needs help from other teams to get into the playoffs. How can the ownership tolerate that bullsh1t?

I seriously hope that all the people that have tickets for Saturday's game step up and send this club a message. DON'T GO! PLEASE! Nothing will speak to ownership more if they play that game in front of 5000 people. It's one night. Spend it with your families, watch it on TV, take your lady out to a fancy dinner...tell this group of idiots that mediocrity in not acceptable, and you are not going to shell out good money for it anymore.

[nhldave]

The Canucks are a period away from a very long summer.

[AtLossForWords]

And then I hear Nonis today on the morning show. You know what he said? He said that they are right where they expected to be at the start of the season. What the phuck does that tell you? The GM didn't expect to improve on last season and make a run in the playoffs. He expected them to be a .500 team that needs help from other teams to get into the playoffs. How can the ownership tolerate that bullsh1t?

That is just sad, I hope Nonis got his ass handed to him after he said that by ownership. That is the dumbest thing a GM of a preason Stanley Cup Contender could have said! He should have expected his team to be at the top of their division or top of their conference, not needing help to get a playoff spot. Any GM who expected his team to be their would have to be rebuilding, but Nonis wasn't exactly doing that was he?

This team is going to win nothing as long as the Sedins are the top line and Alain Vigneault is the coach. This plan just straight up didn't work. It was ineffective and boring. If my team is going to be eliminated in the second round, it would be nice to have some fun watching them.

Teams that win Stanley Cups can score goals and keep the puck out of their net. Even when Dallas won a Stanley Cup they had guys like Modano, Hull, Lehtinen, and Zubov playing their roles, and you'll bet that they could work a powerplay too.

The Canucks the last two seasons just can't score enough goals. I have news for Nonis, just about every team has a capable goaltender around the league. At least in the Western Conference where playoff rosters are studded with guys like Nabokov, Giguere, Turco, Kiprusoff, Hasek/Osgood, Theodore, and Nashville has no business being there in the first place. It takes scoring to put you over the top of that.

[gordphish]

That is just sad, I hope Nonis got his ass handed to him after he said that by ownership. That is the dumbest thing a GM of a preason Stanley Cup Contender could have said! He should have expected his team to be at the top of their division or top of their conference, not needing help to get a playoff spot. Any GM who expected his team to be their would have to be rebuilding, but Nonis wasn't exactly doing that was he?

This team is going to win nothing as long as the Sedins are the top line and Alain Vigneault is the coach. This plan just straight up didn't work. It was ineffective and boring. If my team is going to be eliminated in the second round, it would be nice to have some fun watching them.

Teams that win Stanley Cups can score goals and keep the puck out of their net. Even when Dallas won a Stanley Cup they had guys like Modano, Hull, Lehtinen, and Zubov playing their roles, and you'll bet that they could work a powerplay too.

The Canucks the last two seasons just can't score enough goals. I have news for Nonis, just about every team has a capable goaltender around the league. At least in the Western Conference where playoff rosters are studded with guys like Nabokov, Giguere, Turco, Kiprusoff, Hasek/Osgood, Theodore, and Nashville has no business being there in the first place. It takes scoring to put you over the top of that.

More alarmingly, this team always seems to fold under pressure, no matter how it is put together.

2002. Up 2-0 to Detroit, the Wings get game 3 on a bad play and they go right in the tank.

2003. Needed just 1 point from their last 2 games to clinch their division and drop both games to non-playoff teams, getting shut-out by Jamie Storr in the season finale, at home. Then blew a 3-1 series lead, giving up 16 goals in the last three games (including 2 games at home) to a team that went on to score just once in four games in the Western Final.

2004. Win just once at home against Calgary and blow a 4-0 third period lead in game 6 before losing game 7 at home.

2006. Win just 1 of 7 games down the stretch and hand their playoff spot to the Oilers.

2007. Blow a half dozen 2 goal leads in third periods at home down the stretch and into the playoffs and score more than 2 goals just twice in 12 games. And oh yeah, they won just 2 of 6 playoff games at home.

2008. Win just 2 of 9 down the stretch to hand their playoff spot to Nashville.

Naslund and Linden don't know what it takes to win. Period. And unfortunately they are spreading their ineptitude and mediocrity like infectious disieses to the Sedins, Mitchell and Luongo.

[TimmyTabasco]

Well, I'm very disapointed with the season..and the ending to the season

This club showed lack of character, lack of scoring, and a lack of leadership

So, who's to blame? Well..quite a few people

But, Nonis should take the fall..first and foremost. He had the opportunity to bolster his club, but couldn't do it. I don't just mean at the deadline, but also during the very important offseason. Everyone knew he had to add offense, but he just didn't do it

So, what do you expect? The same group from last season, who had massive troubles to score, were not improved

Naslund. Say what you will, but he is on the down side of his career..and we can't blame him for that. It happens. Sure, he was making 6 million..but then again..who gave him that contract? Plus, he is playing in a defensive first system. He's just not made for this type of hockey. Made an effort at times during the season, but it just wasn't enough for the entire season

Vigneault. Now, I was a big supporter. But, I think he could have pushed the team a little bit, and try to create a little more scoring. Perhaps more motivation? Who knows..btw..I'll post that article in a minute

So yeah..the team lacked leadership..but hey..they needed scoring..they needed that help..and they didn't get it

[AtLossForWords]

Vigneault. Now, I was a big supporter. But, I think he could have pushed the team a little bit, and try to create a little more scoring. Perhaps more motivation? Who knows..btw..I'll post that article in a minute


If you want more offense, Vigneault is not the guy who will give it too you. He's just not creative enough. He had two or three great passers in Henrik, Daniel, and Naslund to work his half boards and their only play was a shot from the point with traffic in front. Bad powerplays aren't a result of a lack of offensive talent most of the time, because most of the players are good offensive players that play on it. Bad powerplays are the result of bad coaching that fails to think outside "the box".

Then there is also the issue that Vigneault's style wears down too many players. To grind the way he forces his team to will make them run out of gas at the end of the year. Maybe it's not a coincidence that this team had some of their worst times the last two seasons at the end of the year. Maybe the Sedins (if they are still part of your core) would deliver more in the playoffs or at the end of the season if they weren't playing such a tiring game all year long.

All of us are happy to admit that Andy Murray's injury troubles usually are not a result of poor condiition as much as they are a result of what he demands from players. I think Vigneault is the same type of guy, which may be part of the reason why younger players produce much more in his system than vetereans. The Canucks are going to be a veterean team most years, so is he really the guy to coach your team?

[nhldave]

If you want more offense, Vigneault is not the guy who will give it too you. He's just not creative enough.

He had two or three great passers in Henrik, Daniel, and Naslund to work his half boards and their only play was a shot from the point with traffic in front.

Then there is also the issue that Vigneault's style wears down too many players. To grind the way he forces his team to will make them run out of gas at the end of the year.



I'd like to point out that there are four other teams in the playoffs who have scored the same or fewer goals than the Canucks but only one who allowed more goals against.

Scoring the problem? Not really, but defense surely has been. And both ways I might add, the fact that they did not play a single game all year with their starting six cost them both defensively and offensively. Their scoring output from the back end this year is really the difference between a record season and a failure to make the playoffs.

BTW I don't buy the line that injuries are a part of the game so they are no excuse. I accept that some injuries are to be expected but I defy anyone to point out a single team that could lose it's starting six defenders for the time the Canucks lost theirs that has the backup to replace the lost players at the same qualitative level.

And what's this "their only play was a shot from the point" stuff? The Sedins were a joy to watch most of the season keeping the crowds cheering with their magic on ice. Who could forget "the shift" when they controlled the puck down low for an entire shift. Their two and three way passing combinations set up some of the best goals scored this past season. I might remind you that the shot from the point was actually missing most of the season with their main shooters Bieksa and Salo gone for huge stretches.

As for Vigneault and his style wearing down the players I can only point out that last year with the same style, most of the same players and most of them healthy the team set an all time wins record and Vigneault was Coach of the Year. And I don't remember a single person saying his style was to grinding or tough at all.

[KB in Kelowna]

I'd like to point out that there are four other teams in the playoffs who have scored the same or fewer goals than the Canucks but only one who allowed more goals against.

Scoring the problem? Not really, but defense surely has been. And both ways I might add, the fact that they did not play a single game all year with their starting six cost them both defensively and offensively. Their scoring output from the back end this year is really the difference between a record season and a failure to make the playoffs.

BTW I don't buy the line that injuries are a part of the game so they are no excuse. I accept that some injuries are to be expected but I defy anyone to point out a single team that could lose it's starting six defenders for the time the Canucks lost theirs that has the backup to replace the lost players at the same qualitative level.

And what's this "their only play was a shot from the point" stuff? The Sedins were a joy to watch most of the season keeping the crowds cheering with their magic on ice. Who could forget "the shift" when they controlled the puck down low for an entire shift. Their two and three way passing combinations set up some of the best goals scored this past season. I might remind you that the shot from the point was actually missing most of the season with their main shooters Bieksa and Salo gone for huge stretches.

As for Vigneault and his style wearing down the players I can only point out that last year with the same style, most of the same players and most of them healthy the team set an all time wins record and Vigneault was Coach of the Year. And I don't remember a single person saying his style was to grinding or tough at all.
Dave,

The scoring was not there when they needed it, in game 81 there were more Canucks in the back of the Oiler net than pucks. That is just one example, they were not scoring timely goals like last year and that lack of offence was their Achilles heal, again! Other teams may have made the playoffs scoring fewer goals, but the goals they scored earned them points!

Injuries occurr but to pin the season on them is a cop out. Other teams had the depth to overcome them. The lossses on the blueline were critical in terms of secondary scoring and again the lack of depth there hurt.

If you look at my signature link I have "the Sedins Shift" on it. But how come they ran out of gas in the late season again? How much impact in thier limited playoff expereince have they had? To be fair they have not had the same winger for more than a season ever, and whose fault is that?

As for Vigneault, well I am on the fence, but the Jack Adams award stuff means squat to me. First it usually goes to a coach who takes a team from a poor season to respectability. Usually by stressing defence getting some career years and so on, then usually the team has a regression in the next season and the guy is sometimes gone shortly there after. Rarely has a coach who keeps a team at the upper echelon of the league won that award, and any one can tell you keeping a team in the top tier year after year is a lot harder. As Timmy Tamacco pointed out earlier, when "Coach V" had the Habs in the 90's the same thing happened there, a great season (but no Cup) followed by a rash of injuries and a decline in the franchise fortunes. I dislike firing the coach as a knee jerk reaction, but if the system dose not work, if he has "lost the room", then he has to go. I don't think that has happened yet, but the Canucks need to play a better more inspired brand of hockey to achieve and sustain success.

[AtLossForWords]

I'd like to point out that there are four other teams in the playoffs who have scored the same or fewer goals than the Canucks but only one who allowed more goals against.

Scoring the problem? Not really, but defense surely has been. And both ways I might add, the fact that they did not play a single game all year with their starting six cost them both defensively and offensively. Their scoring output from the back end this year is really the difference between a record season and a failure to make the playoffs.

BTW I don't buy the line that injuries are a part of the game so they are no excuse. I accept that some injuries are to be expected but I defy anyone to point out a single team that could lose it's starting six defenders for the time the Canucks lost theirs that has the backup to replace the lost players at the same qualitative level.

And what's this "their only play was a shot from the point" stuff? The Sedins were a joy to watch most of the season keeping the crowds cheering with their magic on ice. Who could forget "the shift" when they controlled the puck down low for an entire shift. Their two and three way passing combinations set up some of the best goals scored this past season. I might remind you that the shot from the point was actually missing most of the season with their main shooters Bieksa and Salo gone for huge stretches.

As for Vigneault and his style wearing down the players I can only point out that last year with the same style, most of the same players and most of them healthy the team set an all time wins record and Vigneault was Coach of the Year. And I don't remember a single person saying his style was to grinding or tough at all.

To echo KB, the goals this team scored did not earn them points. They would win some games by wide margins like the five nothing shutout over the New York Rangers and a couple one sided matchups against the Calgary Flames, but they couldn't consistently score three goals a game or more. They had trouble scoring that third or fourth goal in a close game.

The reason why you hear how injuries are part of a game is because now more than ever, players miss more time especially defenseman. The reason why it is not an excuse for the Canucks is because they have a defensive core that misses a lot of time. Salo, Mitchell, and Miller are guys who missed around 20 games a year. Maybe a guy like Mitchell doesn't get a big injury, but he misses a couple games here and there which add up over the course of a season and may even be playing hurt at the end of it. Krajicek and Bieksa are both too young to really be considered injury prone players, and Ohlund misses some time, but this season was by far worse than previous years. There is something special about the Canucks being that they didn't get a single game out of their whole expected top six, but with some of the guys in the lineup you expected them to miss a considerable amount of time.

Did you watch their powerplay most of this season? They didn't work the puck to the front of the net after January. The plan was to open up Salo's shot from the point and hope for a deflection or a lucky rebound. When you watch Anaheim work a powerplay, their play is the one timer, but it's from a far side forward at the hash marks or from the point. However they don't rely on that shot from the point, they work the hash marks. How about San Jose? They didn't have a shot from the point most of the year, and a guy like Thornton did a great job finding an open Michalek or Setoguchi around the crease or at least below the hash marks. The same goes for Colorado, they open up down low plays by being creative behind the net.

The Sedins were not a joy to watch for much of this season, because they were kept to the outside. They didn't attack the net, and there is where you pick up points now. How many goals of all the goals scored in the league are scored within five feet of the net?

Maybe this is the reason why Vigneault doesn't stay anywhere too long. His style is hard to play for the same core of players year after year. We didn't have bad injury bugs last season, but it was the first year this team played that style of a game. Crawford had his injury troubles in '06, but I don't remember that being a problem throughout his coaching tenure here.

I've never been the biggest fan of Vigneault. I was skeptical of when he was brought over here, and I didn't like the style of play I saw from him early last season. Sure you had to be happy with the decisions he made last season such as Pyatt five on five with the Sedins and Linden on the powerplay. You had to be happy with what he got out of Burrows and Josh Green on the PK, but you have to admit he plays a stale game. The oppposing coach knows how they can beat him, and I think this organization needs to respect that fact. Vigneault can't coach a team in a run and gun hockey game, and that is why the Canucks have lost the majority of the high scoring games they have been in and why they have had trouble coming from behind more than other teams since Vigneault has been here.

[TimmyTabasco]

So..again..if you fire Vino..who do you replace him with?

And do you fire him, even though he has led the team to a 49 win season?

Its hard to say..

[TimmyTabasco]

BTW, here is that article on Vino..

Give it a read..

Vino (http://communities.canada.com/theprovince/blogs/kurtenblog/archive/2008/01/16/canucks-offense-at-the-mercy-of-alain-vigneault.aspx)

[gordphish]

I'd like to point out that there are four other teams in the playoffs who have scored the same or fewer goals than the Canucks but only one who allowed more goals against.

Scoring the problem? Not really, but defense surely has been. And both ways I might add, the fact that they did not play a single game all year with their starting six cost them both defensively and offensively. Their scoring output from the back end this year is really the difference between a record season and a failure to make the playoffs.

BTW I don't buy the line that injuries are a part of the game so they are no excuse. I accept that some injuries are to be expected but I defy anyone to point out a single team that could lose it's starting six defenders for the time the Canucks lost theirs that has the backup to replace the lost players at the same qualitative level.

And what's this "their only play was a shot from the point" stuff? The Sedins were a joy to watch most of the season keeping the crowds cheering with their magic on ice. Who could forget "the shift" when they controlled the puck down low for an entire shift. Their two and three way passing combinations set up some of the best goals scored this past season. I might remind you that the shot from the point was actually missing most of the season with their main shooters Bieksa and Salo gone for huge stretches.

As for Vigneault and his style wearing down the players I can only point out that last year with the same style, most of the same players and most of them healthy the team set an all time wins record and Vigneault was Coach of the Year. And I don't remember a single person saying his style was to grinding or tough at all.

Yeah, I heard the Anaheim comparison all year from Nonis, and you know what dave? It's bs.

The Ducks went without Neidermayer and Selanne for over half the season. Plug them in for the whole year, and you could easily add at least another 30 goals to the Ducks' total. Those thirty goals were easily the difference in the 8 fewer points this season and second in the conference as opposed to 4th.

At the beginning of the season, I never took or expressed the attitude that this team needed a tonne more scoring. Just one more 30 goal threat would have been the difference for them between 11th and at least 3rd in the west, the key word being threat. Just one more gun pointed at the other team that would have made the Canucks a harder team to defend. One more scorer that could have turned even three or four of those SO losses into wins and two or three of those games in January where they outplayed the opposition but gave up points because they couldn't score the next goal into games where they picked up points. One more scorer that would have taken an immense amount of pressure off this team and put them in a position down the stretch where the division and a playoff spot were not in question. And they STILL needed a special teams QB on top of that to truly contend for the Cup.

Now, the injuries. I WILL NOT EXCUSE THIS TEAM FOR THE INJURIES ON ANY LEVEL. Dallas has been without their two best defenseman for half the year and they finished 5th in the conference, one up from last year. Injuries have been the excuse this team has used going all the way back to the 2001 season. That year it was Naslund, Cassels, Lachance and Cloutier. In 2002, they used Cloutier's knee as an excuse for his postseason melt down. In 2003, they again used Cloutier's knee and the injury to Salo. In 2004, it was Cloutier's ankle and the suspension to Bertuzzi. In 2006 it was the injuries to Jovo, Salo and Ohlund. In 07 they pointed to the injuries to Salo, Bieksa, Mitchell and Fitzpatrick as the reason for them being unable to score more than 2 goals in 10 of their 12 playoff games.

IF INJURIES ARE SUCH A PROBLEM HERE, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Why did he sign Salo to that stupid contract if injuries are the problem? Why was Morrison allowed to start the season on a wrist they knew might require surgery? Why did they wait right until camp to have Miller go in for surgery? Why did Nonis not pull the trigger on a single deal with both Morrison and Bieksa out long term? Why was no help on the blueline brought in when it was clear that Krajicek was done for the year? Is Nonis so stupid that he hasn't yet learned that young defensemen almost always hit a wall in February?

Injuries are and always will be part of the adversity that teams face over the course of an 82 game schedule and 3 month playoff battle. I didn't hear the Flames using injuries as an excuse in 04 when they used 13 defensemen in their run to the 7th game of the Finals that season.

This team wasn't supposed to be one point behind a weak division leader with two weeks left, and it certainly wasn't supposed to miss the playoffs with a top 3 goaltender and a 47 million dollar payroll.

However Nonis wants to spin doctor it, THERE ARE NO EXCUSES. There are certainly reasons why this team has coughed up yet another hairball under his guidance, but has he shown any ability to both identify and correct the problems on this team? He had probably the greatest opportunity to do that of any GM that has been here, considering that he had a 100 point lineup to start with when he took over AND a third of the league as UFAs to draw from coming out of the lockout. And what has he done with it? Missed the playoffs two out three years and left the team with far more holes in the lineup than they had pre-lockout.

I listen to the 'presser' the other day, and I just want to slap him. If Jan Bulis was all he made him out to be in that statement, then why the phuck wasn't he resigned? I guess Isbister was the better player, Dave? And he says idiotic things like this all the time, and the sheep here gobble it up.

As for the players, after that game in Calgary where they blew the 2-0 lead, they gave up. Not everyone, but the leadership core certainly did, and that is not excusable. They packed it in. For the second time in three years, they looked like they had no interest in competing in the playoffs and just handed their spot away. Had they gone out on their shields with both guns blazing, I would praise the players right now and focus solely on the ineptitude of managment. But they turned tail and ran, and that I won't tolerate. They are all overpaid for what they do. They owe an honost and couargeous effort to the people that provide them with their disgustingly glutunous existences.

They can't guarantee wins every night. This is sport. But they can guarantee an effort EVERY PHUCKING NIGHT OUT. If they aren't willing to provide that, then they can get the phuck out of Dodge.

[nhldave]

Dave,

The scoring was not there when they needed it, in game 81 there were more Canucks in the back of the Oiler net than pucks. That is just one example, they were not scoring timely goals like last year and that lack of offence was their Achilles heal, again! Other teams may have made the playoffs scoring fewer goals, but the goals they scored earned them points!

I'm not sure how to respond to this point having not done any analysis of timely and untimely goals.:D

Injuries occurr but to pin the season on them is a cop out. Other teams had the depth to overcome them. The lossses on the blueline were critical in terms of secondary scoring and again the lack of depth there hurt.

I'm not pinning the season wholesale on injuries but I think it's only fair to acknowledge that they lost their entire stating six for various and extended periods. That hurt a lot. And I don't agree that there is any team in the league what with salary caps and all that has the depth to replace their starting six with six new defensemen who are just as good. I'd be happy to go team by team with you on that one.


If you look at my signature link I have "the Sedins Shift" on it. But how come they ran out of gas in the late season again? How much impact in thier limited playoff expereince have they had? To be fair they have not had the same winger for more than a season ever, and whose fault is that?

The fault of that is clearly Nonis's for not finding, or keeping (Carter) the players who can compliment the Sedins. As for them running out of gas I agree they clearly did. I don't think they are physically strong enough to be the top line through an 82 game season when they have virtually no scoring support elsewhere on the team. That allows other teams to key on the Sedins with their best defensive players night after night after night. That kind of attention is going to wear anyone down.

As for Vigneault, well I am on the fence, but the Jack Adams award stuff means squat to me. First it usually goes to a coach who takes a team from a poor season to respectability. Usually by stressing defence getting some career years and so on, then usually the team has a regression in the next season and the guy is sometimes gone shortly there after. Rarely has a coach who keeps a team at the upper echelon of the league won that award, and any one can tell you keeping a team in the top tier year after year is a lot harder. As Timmy Tamacco pointed out earlier, when "Coach V" had the Habs in the 90's the same thing happened there, a great season (but no Cup) followed by a rash of injuries and a decline in the franchise fortunes. I dislike firing the coach as a knee jerk reaction, but if the system dose not work, if he has "lost the room", then he has to go. I don't think that has happened yet, but the Canucks need to play a better more inspired brand of hockey to achieve and sustain success.

The attributes that got him the award were based on a great year by his goalie (usually a must for Coach of the Year winners), a team playing with in it's limits as coached by V and lots of luck in avoiding excessive injuries. Notice that two thirds of this mixture is really outside the control of the coach. So to a great extent the award is almost by chance rather than design but that does not take away the qualities and abilties that V had/has that were partially responsible for him getting the award. In theory create the same conditions and V would again win the award. That explains how Pat Quinn could win in both Toronto and Philadelphia.
But most of all this award is not for the "best" coach in the NHL which I think most people assume. It's like the Hart, it's meant to go to the coach that has contributed the most to his team's success.

[nhldave]

To echo KB, the goals this team scored did not earn them points. They would win some games by wide margins like the five nothing shutout over the New York Rangers and a couple one sided matchups against the Calgary Flames, but they couldn't consistently score three goals a game or more. They had trouble scoring that third or fourth goal in a close game.

As I said to KB I don't have an analysis of timely and untimely goals and I wonder if you do or if this is a generalization?


The reason why you hear how injuries are part of a game is because now more than ever, players miss more time especially defenseman. The reason why it is not an excuse for the Canucks is because they have a defensive core that misses a lot of time.

This seems a bit contradictory to me. You seem to be saying that the more injuries one has the less reason there is to blame poor performance on injuries?

Salo, Mitchell, and Miller are guys who missed around 20 games a year. Maybe a guy like Mitchell doesn't get a big injury, but he misses a couple games here and there which add up over the course of a season and may even be playing hurt at the end of it.

I don't think I agree with the premise that since a player loses a few games here and there adding up to a bunch over the season that is not as much of a problem for the team than if he missed the same number of games only all in a row.


Krajicek and Bieksa are both too young to really be considered injury prone players, and Ohlund misses some time, but this season was by far worse than previous years. There is something special about the Canucks being that they didn't get a single game out of their whole expected top six, but with some of the guys in the lineup you expected them to miss a considerable amount of time.

And would you not agree that this situation had negative implications for their goaltending and their scoring in that so much of the expected offense from the defense was not there this past season? When you have a team seriously challenged from an offenisve point of view to begin with does this not add up to a team missing the playoffs with the same team that only last year won their division with the most wins in team history?


Did you watch their powerplay most of this season? They didn't work the puck to the front of the net after January. The plan was to open up Salo's shot from the point and hope for a deflection or a lucky rebound. When you watch Anaheim work a powerplay, their play is the one timer, but it's from a far side forward at the hash marks or from the point. However they don't rely on that shot from the point, they work the hash marks. How about San Jose? They didn't have a shot from the point most of the year, and a guy like Thornton did a great job finding an open Michalek or Setoguchi around the crease or at least below the hash marks. The same goes for Colorado, they open up down low plays by being creative behind the net.

I'm not sure what your point is here other than that different teams take a different approach to the power play. Anaheim actually scored 8 fewer goals than Vancouver during the season, San Jose only 9 more. Colorado scored 22 more with their behind the net play. In Vancouver's record run last year they scored only 9 more goals than they did this year. Anaheim this year scored 53 fewer goals than last when they had Selanne and Neidemeyer for the whole season.

The Sedins were not a joy to watch for much of this season, because they were kept to the outside. They didn't attack the net, and there is where you pick up points now. How many goals of all the goals scored in the league are scored within five feet of the net?

Perhaps we look for different things but I certainly enjoy the Sedins game and have many memories of their going to the middle. Perhaps you are thinking of them as they were the previous season when indeed it did seem like they were forever on the outside.
I have no idea of how many goals are scored within 5 feet of the net, can you tell me what this number is?


Maybe this is the reason why Vigneault doesn't stay anywhere too long. His style is hard to play for the same core of players year after year. We didn't have bad injury bugs last season, but it was the first year this team played that style of a game. Crawford had his injury troubles in '06, but I don't remember that being a problem throughout his coaching tenure here.

I really think you should read this excerpt form Wikipedia about Vigneault, it may surprise you to learn just how successful he has been as a coach.

"Vigneault began his coaching career at a very young age, 25, just one season after his final year as a player. In his first six seasons, beginning in 1986-87, he coached in the QMJHL — one season for the Trois Rivieres Draveurs and five for the Hull Olympiques, coincidentally, the same two teams he played junior hockey for. The 1987-88 season with the Olympiques was his best overall in his QMJHL coaching career, as far as regular season record is concerned, finishing 43-23-4.

In 1992-93, Vigneault got his first break in the NHL as an assistant coach with the expansion Ottawa Senators. However, after three consecutive last-place finishes, he returned to the QMJHL half-way through the 1995-96 season to coach the Beauport Harfangs.

One and a half seasons later, Vigneault was granted another chance in the NHL, his first stint as a head coach in the league, with the Montreal Canadiens. He performed well in his first few seasons with the storied franchise, and in 2000, he was nominated for the Jack Adams Award as coach of the year. Ironically, the season after his nomination, Montreal started poorly and he was fired.

After a third stint in the QMJHL, coaching two seasons for the Prince Edward Island Rocket, Vigneault was hired by the Vancouver Canucks organization to coach their minor-league affiliate, the Manitoba Moose. After a successful season in Manitoba, in which the Moose earned 100 points and reached the second round of the playoffs, he was chosen to replace previous Canucks coach Marc Crawford for the 2006-07 season.

In his first season in Vancouver, he set a franchise record for wins in a single season (49), eclipsing Pat Quinn's 1992-93 campaign. As a result, on June 14, 2007, Vigneault won his first Jack Adams Trophy, for which he was previously nominated in 2000, beating Buffalo Sabres coach Lindy Ruff, the first runner-up."
------------------------------------------------------------------


I've never been the biggest fan of Vigneault. I was skeptical of when he was brought over here, and I didn't like the style of play I saw from him early last season. Sure you had to be happy with the decisions he made last season such as Pyatt five on five with the Sedins and Linden on the powerplay. You had to be happy with what he got out of Burrows and Josh Green on the PK, but you have to admit he plays a stale game. The oppposing coach knows how they can beat him, and I think this organization needs to respect that fact. Vigneault can't coach a team in a run and gun hockey game, and that is why the Canucks have lost the majority of the high scoring games they have been in and why they have had trouble coming from behind more than other teams since Vigneault has been here.


I don't know if V can coach a run and gun team. That's not the type of team he had in Montreal nor is it here. Maybe if Nonis would dig up some creative goal scorers we'd get a chance to find out.

[nhldave]

Yeah, I heard the Anaheim comparison all year from Nonis, and you know what dave? It's bs.
.............................

They can't guarantee wins every night. This is sport. But they can guarantee an effort EVERY PHUCKING NIGHT OUT. If they aren't willing to provide that, then they can get the phuck out of Dodge.


I agree with what you say about Nonis. I think he is the source of the problem. Not Vigneault and not so much the players although leadership was an issue year long.

[gordphish]

I don't know if V can coach a run and gun team. That's not the type of team he had in Montreal nor is it here. Maybe if Nonis would dig up some creative goal scorers we'd get a chance to find out.

And I don't think they need to be a run and gun team, nor should they be. The best teams in the league can play a sound defensive style and still support creativity on offense.

If I owned this team, I'd wait to see if Scott Niedermayer makes his retirement official this season. If he does, I'd fire Nonis, Tambellini and the entire coaching staff and make Neidermayer the GM, Scott Stevens the assistant GM and John MacLean the head coach. Set that standard of excellence right at the top.

[nhldave]

And I don't think they need to be a run and gun team, nor should they be. The best teams in the league can play a sound defensive style and still support creativity on offense.

If I owned this team, I'd wait to see if Scott Niedermayer makes his retirement official this season. If he does, I'd fire Nonis, Tambellini and the entire coaching staff and make Neidermayer the GM, Scott Stevens the assistant GM and John MacLean the head coach. Set that standard of excellence right at the top.


Well they've made a start with Nonis being tossed out. A good start I'd say.