Is it time Dave Nonis considered trading the Sedins?

[gordphish]

The assumption around Vancouver is that Dave Nonis will go into the summer looking to make a significant move that will change the look of his offense. If the assumption is true, and Nonis is still unwilling to part with his youth, then the time may have come where he needs to consider moving the Sedins.

And if you really think about it, the time for that move may never be better.

Daniel and Henrik are still in their prime. They'll turn 28 next preseason. And they have a year left on their deals that pay them 3.575 million each.

So the questions are, do you move them if you're Nonis, and what do move them for?

If you do move them, you start with the obvious on the return; a young, bonafide number one centre. From there you could go in a number of directions, depending on who the centre you are getting is, whether or not you bring Morrison and/or Naslund back into the fold, who you are looking at through free agency, where you think your youth is at this point, and what your expectations are for next season.

If you resign Morrison and Naslund, you could look for a winger you think would fit well with Morrison on a second line, assuming the centre you are getting would be a good fit with Naslund on the top line.

If you are planning on cutting either or both loose, you probably look for a top scoring winger in the deal and plan on using Kesler, Burrows and Pyatt as your second line.

If you think your lineup will be bolstered by the insertion of one or two prospects next year, eg Grabner, Shirikov or Simek, then you could look to add another solid young forward and a first round pick and look to add a mid range scorer through free agency to give you some insurance.

The first name I'll throw out there is Lecavalier. If Strachan's 'inside information' is true and Lecavalier is planning to ask for a trade to a more traditional hockey market, then that's where you start.

So...what do you all think?

[TimmyTabasco]

Step away from the pipe

Lately, the twins have been playing very poorly..and the cycle is getting old

However, they have had a lot of success in the regular season..and just need to take it to the next level

You need to get them a scoring winger..someone to compliment their game. They haven't had it this season..even last season they didn't have a fulltime partner

Get them that winger, and no..not a spare part..but a true established winger

Then, see what they can do

But no, I wouldn't trade them..

[KB in Kelowna]

I voted for Gordo to step away from the pipe. However Nonis should listen to any and all offers for all players not named Roberto this off season. It means you give up talent to land talent, as I said earlier, no more role palyers and reclamation projects please.

[AtLossForWords]

I'm going to go with Gordo on this one.

I think he's looking around this team, and he sees the Sedins as guys who are not producing for him when he needs it the most. During this playoff push they dried up, and during last year's playoffs they dried up. If Aquilini wants a Cup, he's going to need guys who can produce when it means something.

Vincent LeCavalier would be an ideal fit here. Look at how St. Louis and LeCavalier helped each other out. A big playmaking cetner who can score goals finally reached his potential, and a small speedster made a name for himself by putting it on the Hart and Art Ross.

LeCavalier, Raymond, and Pyatt would give this team a dominant first line. If Nonis could bring back Naslund and Morrison to play with an offensive prospect like Grabner or a free agent like Michael Ryder, we would have a pretty damn good top six in front of Kesler, Burrows, and their other winger.

Pyatt LeCavalier Raymond
Naslund Morrison -------

versus

Sedin Sedin Naslund
Pyatt Morrison Raymond

is a much bigger and maybe even faster top six group. Sure their may be a whole on the second line that would be filled with a flavor of the month, but it provides a dominant top line with a guy who can score 50 goals and 100 points supported by a second line and a checking line that can put up some points.

I think trading the Sedins for LeCavalier would be a good move for this team. Not having to resign Daniel and Henrik would also give us enough cap space to keep both LeCavalier and Luongo in Canucks sweaters as keystones for a very long time.

[Nelson19777]

I also think if the deal was good, it's worth considering. If we could swap them for Vinny. I think I'd do it as Lossy just said.

I'd like to see this team go a bit more Canadian (we'll North American anyway) style. Team Sweden just hasn't done it for us.

Not sure Tampa would take it, but it'd be worth looking into.

[gordphish]

Step away from the pipe

Lately, the twins have been playing very poorly..and the cycle is getting old

However, they have had a lot of success in the regular season..and just need to take it to the next level

You need to get them a scoring winger..someone to compliment their game. They haven't had it this season..even last season they didn't have a fulltime partner

Get them that winger, and no..not a spare part..but a true established winger

Then, see what they can do

But no, I wouldn't trade them..

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting this based solely on the Sedins last 15 games, nor am I advocating trading them becasue of their lack of playoff production of late.

This is the way I'm looking at it.

It's obvious Nonis has to make a significant shift in his top 6 forward group, for two reasons. One is obviously results. Two is the contract status of Naslund and Morrison.

So how do you go about doing this when there isn't any real help available through free agency? About the only player available that could fit your criteria in terms of finding a legit scorer to play with the twins Saucey is Marian Hossa. So how do they drop 8 mil on Hossa and still find another scoring line?

Going the trade route, it's clear that Nonis won't move Kesler, Edler or Raymond, and at this point he probably shouldn't. You can't trade Morrison or Naslund because they will be UFAs in July. Salo, Mitchell and Ohlund all have NTCs. And Luongo isn't going anywhere unless he asks for it.

It's also apparent that a package of Schneider and Bopurdon isn't going to get it done, at least not until one or both prove to be solid NHL regulars. That could be two years from now, four years from now, or never.

So who does that leave? Kevin Bieksa and the Sedins.

Although I've advocated dealing Bieksa in the past, this last injury to Ohlund has changed my mind. I'm not sure Ohlund or Salo have much left to offer if they can't stay healthy. That means the Canucks are going to have lean heavily on guys like Edler, Bieksa and Bourdon over the next few years, so converting Bieksa into a top 6 forward likely isn't the smartest option right now.

In the twins, you have two solid star forwards that aren't yet 28 and are still relatively cheap. There would have to be a lot of teams out there that would show some intense interest should Nonis make them available.

Now, I would only trade the Sedins for one or both of two elements. First, a legitimate front line centre that is not yet 30. Not a gamble like Briere, not a 30 something year old staring down the last big contract of his career like Koivu or Kovalev. An established top line centre like Lecavalier, Malkin or Eric Staal. Or I'd take a younger possible first line centre like Jeff Carter or Nik Backstrom if he came with another significant asset and a low draft pick.

Secondly, an established number one defenseman that can run their special teams. Again, not a Neidermayer that is looking at the final years of his career, and not an overpriced anchor like Jovanovski or McCabe. I would take a flyer on Mike Green out of Washington if he came with Backstrom.

But this is by no means a thread started to bash the Sedins. I've always liked them, they are good players. If you put them in the more wide open eastern conference on a line with someone like St. Louis, I have no doubt they'd both break 100 points.

This is about recognizing that the top 6 forward group doesn't work as it is structured and going after a significant piece of the puzzle that they can build their forward group around for the next decade.

And Nelson...Obviously Feaster would rather keep Lecavalier...who wouldn't? But if Lecavalier is intent on being traded to a hockey market, I'm not sure Feaster could get a better return than the Sedins. I think a deal that sent the twins and Corey Schneider to Tampa for Lecavalier and their first round pick would be a fair deal.

Putting the twins with St. Louis would give Tampa a more than decent top line, one that would shift the team in the direction of better defense, which is what they need. And they get a solid insurance policy on their investment in Smith with Schneider.

[Nelson19777]

Gord, don't get me wrong. I do think it's one of the most realistic trade proposals I've seen as of late in these forums, but Feaster only does this, as you said, IF Vinny has to be moved.

Again, entertaining options can't hurt.

[TimmyTabasco]

Sorry Poisson, but I just dont see it happening. The Canucks have out too much into the Sedins, also the marketing etc

And, I don't see Lecavlier being traded. They already traded Richards, and can't afford to let another star walk

So..what I think they need(twins)..is a physical winger..who can score, and create room for them. Pyatt isn't physical, and doesn't score enough. He's a second/third liner

Also, I'd re-consider re-signing Morrison. He's playing very well, and brings leadership to the table

[gordphish]

Sorry Poisson, but I just dont see it happening. The Canucks have out too much into the Sedins, also the marketing etc

And, I don't see Lecavlier being traded. They already traded Richards, and can't afford to let another star walk

So..what I think they need(twins)..is a physical winger..who can score, and create room for them. Pyatt isn't physical, and doesn't score enough. He's a second/third liner

Also, I'd re-consider re-signing Morrison. He's playing very well, and brings leadership to the table

Morrison is playing well because his contract is up. Remember I said at the start of the year he'd do that, and lo and behold he was on a 30 goal pace before opting for surgery.

You wanna resign him? Fine. A one year deal at 2.5 million, no more. And you let him know that if you hear the words "ow, I'm hurt" out of his mouth just once next year, his ass is on the next flight to Manitoba. Tell him gordo will drive him to the airport.

[TimmyTabasco]

Morrison is playing well because his contract is up. Remember I said at the start of the year he'd do that, and lo and behold he was on a 30 goal pace before opting for surgery.

You wanna resign him? Fine. A one year deal at 2.5 million, no more. And you let him know that if you hear the words "ow, I'm hurt" out of his mouth just once next year, his ass is on the next flight to Manitoba. Tell him gordo will drive him to the airport.

Well, yeah..he is playing better due to the contract. But, also he was playing better due to the off-season surgery

I'd say 2-2.5 million for Morrison would be an alright price

[AtLossForWords]

Well if Pittsburgh resigns Hossa long term, then you may be able to talk to Shero in Pittsburgh about Malkin. He's a creative guy that I would love to see in the blue and green.

To play in Pittsburgh right now and make your own name right next to and not in the shadow of Crosby is a sign of a special talent. A one-two punch can't last as the Sakic/Forsberg and Yzerman/Fedorov lines did with the cap in place now, and I doubt Pittsburgh would want to lose him for nothing. The Sedins give Pittsburgh a very good second line (and maybe even a cheaper) second line to play behind Crosby and Hossa.

[Nelson19777]

I don't think you'll ever see that happen for two reasons. One, I don't think I'd trade them straight up for Malkin. He just doesn't bring everything that Vinny would, plus there's always the possibility of him comming down with whiney Russian syndrome. Two, how does Pittsburgh re-sign the Sedin's if they can't afford Malkin?

[AtLossForWords]

Pittsburgh could take the Sedins because they'd be getting two players at 7to 8 million rather than one for their second line. They might be able to afford Malkin, Crosby, and Hossa, but who's going to be Malkin's linemates?

I don't think you have to worry about Malkin the same way you'd have to worry about say Sergeri Samsonov or Nikolai Zherdev. I don't think any team in the league said they didn't want Bure because he's a whiny Russian, and if even someone is whiney like Fedorov was for Detroit at the end of his time there, he still produced on the ice the way he was expected to.

I think the whiney Russian is a very isolated case.

[gordphish]

Pittsburgh could take the Sedins because they'd be getting two players at 7to 8 million rather than one for their second line. They might be able to afford Malkin, Crosby, and Hossa, but who's going to be Malkin's linemates?

I don't think you have to worry about Malkin the same way you'd have to worry about say Sergeri Samsonov or Nikolai Zherdev. I don't think any team in the league said they didn't want Bure because he's a whiny Russian, and if even someone is whiney like Fedorov was for Detroit at the end of his time there, he still produced on the ice the way he was expected to.

I think the whiney Russian is a very isolated case.

Don't see it happening. I think the Pens keep Crosby, Malkin and Whitney above all others. I wouldn't be shocked if Hossa took less money to stay in Pittsburgh, but I think he'll sign in Phoenix with his brother in the summer.

And I think Gonchar will be the first major salary dumped when the Penguins reach that point.

Trotz has always been a huge admirer of the twins. Assuming their was anything in Nashville the Canucks wanted for the Sedins, they could probably get it from Poile if the Sedins were shopped.

They would probably get a lot of interest in them from New Jersey, Columbus and San Jose as well.

[TimmyTabasco]

How about this scenario..

Now, hear me out..I was a big supporter of Vino..and remain so..

But, my brother said he read an article..brought up some good points..

The familarility between the Canucks and Vino's Habs

-injuries
-really bad seasons by Koivu, Recchi, Damphousse etc.
-the fact he wants them to play at 110% each season, success in the first season, but it tends to wear them down the next season(s)

Now..it just got me thinking..and it was a pretty interesting argument. Also, you could throw this one out..under Vino

-career year by Luongo
-career year for the twins
-career year for Bieksa

So..but then you could also say..this year they aren't performing as well as last..meaning the 110% wornout argument comes into effect

I'll try and find the article..