View Full Version : Sens Best Defenseman?
Just something interesting I found out.. there were a few other's that caught me off guard as well.. but the defenseman who played the hardest minutes for the Sens last year was Wade Redden.
A poster at another board I frequent did this some time ago..
"just the EV+ (per hour) rate and EV- rate of every opponent who was on the ice for every event. All summed up and multiplied by the players 5on5 ice-time ... then x10 to make it easier on the eyes."
Redden's was the best on Ottawa. There's a few others I might throw out there, if this gets some good discussion.
I've always thought it'd be "Z".
Madferret
5-19-05, 10:22 AM
Redden has always logged a boat load of minutes, but over the last 2 seasons I'd say his game as improved 10 fold. I shudder when I think about his days paired up with Jason York.....
Redden is great and one of my top two favourites in the game today, however, it shocks me how underrated this guy still is. I thought he would finally get a chance to show his skills on an international stage at the World Cup, but was unfortunately out due to injury.
Anyways, with the Senators, he's consistant (let's not talk about the missed assignment on Friesen in 2003), can be tough in the corners and chips in offensively. I don't know if I would even go as far as saying the Lloydminster native is better overall than Chara, but there isn't too much of a separation anymore.
Madferret
5-21-05, 12:54 AM
I don't know if I would even go as far as saying the Lloydminster native is better overall than Chara, but there isn't too much of a separation anymore.
*Except Wing Span, Gigantism, Intimidation...
:thumb:
Madferret
5-21-05, 8:23 PM
Volchenkov is going to have his breakthrough year the next time we have a season IMO, he's got the tools to become a ~ Monday - Friday Working Stay Home D-Man Who Hits the Snot out of You~
Cap or no cap, our depth along the blue is solid and makes me drool everytime I really look at it....
:thumb:
Redden is great. He's easily among the league's best defenders, has a rocket of a shot, never gets tired as is evident by the insane amounts of minutes he plays, and can pot you almost 20 goals in a career year as seen this past season. He's got a great first pass, is discipline, and is a smooth skater. But Chara is pretty much all of that....... minus the agility and discipline...... in exchange for a 6'9 frame which comes equpied with intimidating, strength, and the ability to contain any forward in the league, etc. Redden is very solid but Big Z is the undisputed #1 defenseman in Ottawa as far as I'm concerned.
Ferret, I agree the A-Train is set to break out in a big way. He may have alredy if not for injuries. His great AHL was just a little bit of foreshawdowing! Meszaros has developed quicker than anyone expected and is NHL ready now (but obviously he's not going to be able to step right in and be a core player or anything), Phillips is a horse, and de Vries (if he can rebound) is a gritty #4 defenseman. This makes Redden a valueable trading chip. We have such great depth on defense we could afford to move him for a powerforward/#1 goalie. What a situation! We lost some offense from the blueline but our forwards fo enough scoring and Meszaros should be able to put up similar number in a handful of years. Phillips could also put up bigger #s in a greater role (although not up to Wade's level). Couple him with Havlat and we can land almost any player in the league. We got good RW depth and Neil can be a fine 3rd liner IMO. A 4th line player to take Neil's current spot can easily be signed/traded for. Still, I'd like to see Marty on the LW before we think about moving him.
I'd slow down on calling Meszaros NHL-ready.
Yes, he is going to be a good player.. but he was on one of the best teams in the WHL that pretty much choked. To put into perspective, compare his numbers to Roman Tesliuk, who played on a much worse team in Kamloops.
11 goals, 30 assists for 41 points and a + 7 in 59 regular season games... then in the playoffs he had 1 goal and 3 assists in 6 games.. while being a -3.
Tesliuk meanwhile, on a team that had no one except for himself and Dubnyk put up 9 goals and 20 assists for 29 points in 70 regular season games, while being a -4. In the playoffs he got 4 goals, 1 assist and was a -2 in 6 games.
Now.. look at the splits.. after December:
Tesliuk: 7 Goals, 10 assists for 17 points and a -7 in 31 games.
Meszaros: 4 Goals, 13 assists for 17 points and a -3 in 27 games.
No one in their right mind would call Tesliuk NHL ready, so I don't really see how you can call Meszaros one. Pro ready? For sure, but he won't have more than a cup of coffee in the NHL for atleast 2 more seasons.
MadDevil
5-23-05, 12:46 AM
I've always thought that Redden is one of the more underrated players, not only on the Sens, but in the NHL. He logs a lot of ice time against some pretty good teams in the Eastern Conference, and is solid at both ends of the ice. Chara, while he put up good offensive numbers this last year, I think is more of a shutdown defensemen, where Redden can do a little of both. Sure, Redden has made some mistakes in his career (Game 7 vs the Devils in 03' being the biggest one), but even the best of them do.
By the way, I think if the Sens hadn't made that one mistake in Game 7, they would have beaten the Devils in overtime. I gotta give it to that Sens team, they came that close to going to the Finals, where I think they would have beaten the Ducks.;)
PDO; first I'd like to go over those regular season statistics again.
Regular Season Stats
Roman Tesliuk: 70 GP, 9 G, A 20, P 29, PIM 109, -4
Andrej Meszaros: 59 GP, G 11, A 30, P 41, PIM 94 +7
I wouldn't say those are very comparable at all. You convieniantly forgot the difference in GP. Meszaros was one of the top defenseman in the WHL in points per game while bringing an intimindating, hard-hitting presence to the ice. Also Meszaros was a rookie in the WHL, playing in his first junior season in North America. Tesliuk on the other hand was a sophomore. Meszaors had played through injury for a good part of the season aswell (again, look at the GP statistics), sustained at the WJC were he was fittingly Slovakia's best defenseman while playing a leadership role (GP 5, G 3, A 1, P 4, PIM 4). That's why your split after december is quite misleading. That's exactly when Meszaros was playing injured. If you loot at his later season totals I'm sure they'll shoot up again. I know he had a very strong March off the top of my head, the right time o heat up! :) BTW, were was Tesliuk at the WJC, the biggest showcase for young talent? I'm pretty sure he was eligable. Perhaps he wasnt released?
Playoff Stats
Tesliuk: GP 6, G 4, A 1, P 5, PIM 6, -2
Meszaros: GP 6, G 1, A 3, P 4, PIM 14, -3
Now these are very comparable, unlike the regular season totals. But despite one glaring stat which bother players share (-3) Meszaros played pretty well. Vancouver fans were actually quite pleased with his performance (again, despite the -3) claiming he was one of their better players and one of the few who didn't dissapoint. I don't know about Tesliuk. I don't follow the Blazers because we have no prospects there, but I will assume he too played quite well based on those figures.
BTW, I think it is worth noting that Vancouver hardly "choked", nor did Meszaros in particular in regards to the post-season. They took Kelowna, WHL Champions, defending Memorial Cup Champs, and Memorial Cup participants to 6 games in a good, hard fought series. The Blazers bowed out the Jeff Glass and the Kootany Ice. 8)
Do I think Meszaros can be a top 4, or maybe even a top 2 guy for us? Not now, very likely in the future. Do I think he can play on our bottom-pairing right now? Definatly. I've no doubt he could be as servicable as a Pothier, a Hnidy, or a Leschshyn - all of whom have played there in the past. I'd rather see him anchor an AHL defense in Binghamton next season and then bring him up for a bigger role with Ottawa if he's ready, but he could play for us right now (once again, it would be in a limited capacity). I can't say that about Tesiluk.
I only brought up the regular season stats because of the split after December. Off hand, I recall Tesliuk being the last cut from the Russian team, but don't hold me to it. I never said that Tesliuk could play in the NHL.. I'm simply using his second half season stats and playoff stats to illustrate the similarities between the two players.
Meszaros may have played injured, but he also played with real players. Tesliuk had a goalie.. and that was it. Meanwhile, Meszaros had the likes of a top 10 pick in the 2006 draft and the (*cough over-rated cough*) Schwarz (who was outplayed this season by Dubnyk and is now going home.. I love it :nod: ).
As far as the rookie season goes... weak argument. Tesliuk simply came over to NA a year before Meszaros, who spent an extra year playing at home. Meszaros is actually a couple of months older than Tesliuk ;).
I honestly think that if you look at the quality of the team that Meszaros was on versus the quality of the team Tesliuk was on it more than makes up for an injury that Meszaros toughed out. Fact is, he's 19.. generally any defenseman that plays in the NHL at 19 is one of 3 things:
1) Amazing, future #1.
2) Rushed
3) Given a cup of coffee so he can see what to expect.
One of the only 19 year olds that played in the NHL as a defenseman last year and did well was Bouwmeester, and you're definetly over-rating Meszaros if you think he could play at that kind of elite level (ie: Make the Canadian World Cup team).
Meszaros will play in Vancouver again next year, with the possibility of a cup of coffee in Ottawa.. anything more would frankly amaze me. He's ineligible to play in the AHL at 19 years of age, and can't play in the AHL for another year. I'd suspect that he'll finish out his junior career, spend a year.. maybe even 2 in the AHL, and then come into the NHL ready to play in the top 4.
Espeacilly on a team like Ottawa.. there's no reason to rush the guy. He also will definetly have to fill out more to play in the NHL. At 6'2" and 187 lbs he'd get thrown around by the average forward, never mind someone like Bertuzzi.
Meszaros has a bright future, there's no doubt.. I just don't think it's being a bit extreme to say he's NHL ready at 19 years old. The guy will be a good second pairing, maybe a first pairing defenseman at his prime.. but he's not going to be a Bouwmeester or Ohlund.
As for Tesliuk, he's still got a long ways to go, and I think he'll end up being a victim of numbers in Edmonton. We have a lot of young defemseman coming up the pipe-line (Greene, Lynch, Woywitka, to join Brewer, Bergeron and Semenov) and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt in a deal where the Oilers try to move up. I'd say he has about a #4 defenseman potential. Good offensive instincts and is apparently pretty solid defensively. Could be similar to Boris Mironov.
Meszaros may have played injured, but he also played with real players. Tesliuk had a goalie.. and that was it. Meanwhile, Meszaros had the likes of a top 10 pick in the 2006 draft and the (*cough over-rated cough*) Schwarz (who was outplayed this season by Dubnyk and is now going home.. I love it :nod: ).
Who are these "real players"? You make it sound like the Giants were a great team. They were an overrated team if anything, although still quite solid. Meszaros was hardly a benefactor of great players. If anything he made the players around him look better, not the other way around. The Giants have Brule who is a great talent, Meszaros, Fistric and Schwarz as their big names. Brule obviously had a fine season, Meszaros played injured for a chunk of the season, Fistric was always hurt playing a grand total of 15 games, and as you said Schwarz was a huge dissapointment. Nobody on the Giants roster broke 55 points outside of Brule so it's not like they have tons of elite talent. Only one player even broke 50 after Gilbert (Mitch Bartley, hardly a household name). How many players reached 40 points in Vancouver? Three. How many reached 40 in Kamloops? Also Three. The Giants also had two players who got to the 30+ makrs. Kamlopps had 0, but two who were very close with 29 (Gutierrez and Tesiluk) so we can pretty much say they aswell had two. These great players you speak of in Vancouver aren't too abundant. Likewise, Kamloops' offense wasn't all that weak although nothing to write home about. If you take away Brule, these two teams aren't that far apart.
BTW, Meszaros was actually the Vancouver's third leading scorer. Had he played a full healty season he likely would've been second.
As far as the rookie season goes... weak argument. Tesliuk simply came over to NA a year before Meszaros, who spent an extra year playing at home. Meszaros is actually a couple of months older than Tesliuk ;).
I hardly consider it a weak argument at all considering it was Meszaros' first campaigne out of Europe. Any time a player comes over to North America for the first time there is bound to be a learning curve.
I honestly think that if you look at the quality of the team that Meszaros was on versus the quality of the team Tesliuk was on it more than makes up for an injury that Meszaros toughed out. Fact is, he's 19.. generally any defenseman that plays in the NHL at 19 is one of 3 things:
1) Amazing, future #1.
2) Rushed
3) Given a cup of coffee so he can see what to expect.
Again, outside of Brule, the teams aren't that far apart although I'd still have to give the Giants an edge. It's hardly enough to offset Meszaros' superior numbers in spite of injury struggle while Tesiluk played a full, healthy season IMO. In regards to the bold:
- I don't want him in the NHL when it resumes. I'd rather see him get lots of minutes in a lesser league. I agree he would be rushed if we use him in a top-4 role, but I could see him on the bottom pairing. He can't be any worse than Pothier was at times.... I'm just saying he's probably far enough in his development to be adequately used for a few minutes per night like a guy like Hnidy was.
- I think Andrej may very well get a game or two in Ottawa, just to see what it's like. Don't expect him to get more than 5-10 games in though, that's for sure (barring lots of injuries ala Los Angeles this year).
One of the only 19 year olds that played in the NHL as a defenseman last year and did well was Bouwmeester, and you're definetly over-rating Meszaros if you think he could play at that kind of elite level (ie: Make the Canadian World Cup team).
I never mentioned J-Bow, Canada or anything. But, there are many, many 19 (20, since that's what he'll be by fall) year olds who can play in the NHL with ease. Just in a limited role. Exactly like the role Meszaros would take with Ottawa. It's just that teams are smarter to play all these kids in a lesser league where they get quality minutes. Minutes they wouldn't see in the NHL. Bouwmeester wa an exception as you said. He could step in and be a top-four guy almost immediatly.
Meszaros will play in Vancouver again next year, with the possibility of a cup of coffee in Ottawa.. anything more would frankly amaze me. He's ineligible to play in the AHL at 19 years of age, and can't play in the AHL for another year. I'd suspect that he'll finish out his junior career, spend a year.. maybe even 2 in the AHL, and then come into the NHL ready to play in the top 4.
He'll be 20 in October so I fully expect him to anchor an AHL defense. There's no way Ottawa send him backt o Vancouver where he was (at times.......) a man among boys. He'll almost certainly make a stop in Binghamton for a year. After that he'll be pushing for a job in Ottawa, but he may still need one more season before he can get full-time duty in the Nation's Capital. Muckler has went on record saying he is ready right now, but would rather see him down in Bingo being a go-to-guy rather than a bit part with the big club.
Espeacilly on a team like Ottawa.. there's no reason to rush the guy. He also will definetly have to fill out more to play in the NHL. At 6'2" and 187 lbs he'd get thrown around by the average forward, never mind someone like Bertuzzi.
Agreed. There's no need to rush him. Thus, once again, I will make it clear I don't want him playing for Ottawa just yet (alhtough I maintain he is probably capable of playing 3-5 minutes a night on the bottom-pairing).
BTW, that was his draft weight/height. He's filled out a bit but could still stand to add some weight. He's 6'1/2" and 200lbs according to WHL.ca and 6"2 195 according to the Giants official website. So he's put on roughly 10lbs and may grow another 1/4-1 inch or so.....
Meszaros has a bright future, there's no doubt.. I just don't think it's being a bit extreme to say he's NHL ready at 19 years old. The guy will be a good second pairing, maybe a first pairing defenseman at his prime.. but he's not going to be a Bouwmeester or Ohlund.
As for Tesliuk, he's still got a long ways to go, and I think he'll end up being a victim of numbers in Edmonton. We have a lot of young defemseman coming up the pipe-line (Greene, Lynch, Woywitka, to join Brewer, Bergeron and Semenov) and I wouldn't be surprised to see him dealt in a deal where the Oilers try to move up. I'd say he has about a #4 defenseman potential. Good offensive instincts and is apparently pretty solid defensively. Could be similar to Boris Mironov.
I won't say whether or not he'll be a J-Bo. That guy's still far too early in his development, seems to be a true superstar in the making, and player a much different stlye to Andrej. But Meszaros has been compared to Ohlund more than anyone else..........
Agreed on Tesiluk and sorry for the long post. :) :doh: :relief
I'll just keep this short and sweet.
What's the point of saying he's NHL ready if by NHL ready you only mean 3-5 minutes a night? Is there really a point to calling a player NHL-calibur if he can't contribute positively? I could just as easily say Schremp is NHL ready. He'd probally be our best PP player.. but he's not NHL ready. He still has a long way to improve.
Also, unless it's changed in the CBA then Meszaros plays in 1A) WHL 1B) NHL. Same thing happened to the Oilers with Hemsky. He was simlpy too good for the Q, but we werent' allowed to send him to the AHL because of his age. So, he'll sadly been one of the tweeners that will "waste" time in the WHL, or have his development stunted in the NHL. My bet is Ottawa goes with the former.
TimmyTabasco
5-23-05, 10:05 PM
The sens have much depth on defense, and have for quite sometime
They gave away Salo, and Rachunek..two promising..yet injury prone defenseman. But yet they still manage to produce solid defenders
The best, IMO, is Chara. Redden comes a close second, and Phillips in third. If DeVries can gel with the defense, then I predict he will be one of their best defenders next season.
Crazy Joe Devola
5-24-05, 3:57 PM
Wade Redden is an overrated defenceman. Sure, he puts up some nice numbers, but come playoffs, they are very mediocre. He rarely shows any physical iniatitive and is prone to mental lapses in critical times. Frankly, I rank him below Chara and Phillips on the depth chart. I always hate the argument that he has never played with a top tier d-man. Well, if he was as good as everyone argues, wouldn't that not matter and said player would be covered up by Redden's abilities??? Good player, but overrated.
I'll just keep this short and sweet.
What's the point of saying he's NHL ready if by NHL ready you only mean 3-5 minutes a night? Is there really a point to calling a player NHL-calibur if he can't contribute positively? I could just as easily say Schremp is NHL ready. He'd probally be our best PP player.. but he's not NHL ready. He still has a long way to improve.
Because despite what you say he could still very well contribute. Bottom pairing defenseman actually play a fine role, although not to be confused with key players. Look at Volchenkov's rookie season as a prime example. He was a bottom pairing guy and had a very successful rookie campaigne despite not getting much playing time compared to guys like Chara, etc. But he did established himself as a future core player and one of the league's best open-ice hitters. I doubt Meszaros would have quite as much success because not only was the A-Trian further in his development, Volchenkov was a tank while Andrej can still stand to add a few pounds. But still, I don't doubt he too would show signs of improvement. And Schremp is hardly NHL ready IMO, even if we're talking small roles. He is, and may very well always be, a very one-dimensional forward. He'd never take to a bottom-six role at this stage in his career and isn't yet developed enough to play on a scoring line. Meszaros' well rounded, physical (boarderline dirty) game would enable him to make the transition to the NHL game, barring we keep him away from the Thronton's and continue to put Big Z against those guys.
And I feel it is worth mentioning I was exagerating with my time-on-ice figures just to further my point, although looking back it seems like a mistake. Meszaros would likely see at least 10-15 minutes per night for two reasons: defensemen just as a rule of thumb player more than forwards regardless of their experience, and no Ottawa defender (recently that is) has ever played anything less than 12 minutes per game if he manages to get a spot on the big team upon checking my facts on NHL.com. Even Vauclair player just under 13, and he's only made one appearance for us and not as good as Meszaros.
Also, unless it's changed in the CBA then Meszaros plays in 1A) WHL 1B) NHL. Same thing happened to the Oilers with Hemsky. He was simlpy too good for the Q, but we werent' allowed to send him to the AHL because of his age. So, he'll sadly been one of the tweeners that will "waste" time in the WHL, or have his development stunted in the NHL. My bet is Ottawa goes with the former.
I thought 20 year olds could play in the AHL? Jeff Carter is only 20 and is currently having great success with the Phantoms during their playoff run. Zach Parise is onyl 20 aswell. Meszaros (currently 19), being born in October, will turn 20 just in time for the start of the next season. There's no way he'll go back to Vancouver. We'll make room for him in Ottawa if AHL/Europe are not available and Junior is the only option. Muckler has already stated he's take him on the roster today if he had to. Again, I'd like the kid to play in a lesser league right now, but NHL time would be much better than remaining stagnant in the WHL. Like what happened with Volchenkov, I seriously doubt we'd hurt his development by placing him on the big team. Granted, I think sending him to Binghamton is the best way to go.
Wade Redden is an overrated defenceman. Sure, he puts up some nice numbers, but come playoffs, they are very mediocre. He rarely shows any physical iniatitive and is prone to mental lapses in critical times. Frankly, I rank him below Chara and Phillips on the depth chart. I always hate the argument that he has never played with a top tier d-man. Well, if he was as good as everyone argues, wouldn't that not matter and said player would be covered up by Redden's abilities??? Good player, but overrated. I disagree. He's underrated, because he rarely gets the attention of anyone. Redden quietly goes about his business shutting down top players. I admit he's had a couple of mistakes that have caused unnecessary losses for the Senators, but for the most part he's one of the league's most consistant defenders.
For a fairly defensive defenceman, he's got some solid offensive numbers too:2000-2001 - 78GP - 10G - 37A - 47P.
2001-2002 - 79 GP - 9G - 25A - 34P.
2002-2003 - 76 GP - 10G - 35A - 45P.
2003-2004 - 81 GP - 17G - 26A - 43P.Also take a look at the thread starter for more numbers in Redden's favour.
I don't understand where you get "overrated" and Wade Redden together.
If I had only 1 pick I would have to choose Chara. He has the skill, and you don't find guys that big with skill to match.
If I had only 1 pick I would have to choose Chara. He has the skill, and you don't find guys that big with skill to match. I personally would take McCabe.
:rollover:
I disagree. He's underrated, because he rarely gets the attention of anyone. Redden quietly goes about his business shutting down top players. I admit he's had a couple of mistakes that have caused unnecessary losses for the Senators, but for the most part he's one of the league's most consistant defenders.
If we start sending out Redden to contain guys like Thornton/Iginla/Jagr/Roberts I'll shoot myself! :eek: He's no shutdown defenseman at all, but he's still go his set of pros (his consistancy for one, as you pointed out) and I'm glad he's on our side.
Those type of guys belong to Chara, who Thronton has came right out and said is the hardest guy to play against in the NHL. :thumb:
I personally would take McCabe.
:rollover:McCabe is a Sen??? :laughing: I'd still take Chara, size that matters :rollover:
I believe that comment stems from PTBC claiming he wouldn't know who to pick between McCabe and Chara in a debate I had with him a while back at HF. ;) :smoke:
Madferret
5-24-05, 7:53 PM
...Of All Time?
Jason York
A good old Nepean boy! :) I always like York.
P.S- Rimouski scores, the boys are down 3-1. :(
Madferret
5-24-05, 8:43 PM
A good old Nepean boy! :) I always like York.
P.S- Rimouski scores, the boys are down 3-1. :(
Andy, York was junk! I was kidding! York was a terrible guy to pair Redden with! Boooo York!
- Ya still 3-1...sh!tty...
Andy, York was junk! I was kidding! York was a terrible guy to pair Redden with! Boooo York!
Hehehe, I know you were kidding. You made your feelings clear earlier in the thread. I was just one of the very few who liked him! :) I don't know if I would have paired him with Redden as often as he was however......
While we're talking about defenders who are no longer with the team, I hated that bum Igor Kravchuk. His whole game sucked. Sure, he had a cannon (his one and only asset) but what good was it if it never hit net.... did he ever break 5 goals with us, for Christ's sakes?!?! :curse: I was a fan of Sami Salo but he was too injury prone, soft, and we got the better of the Schaefer deal as far as I'm concerned.
*Still 3-1. Alphonso missed a golden opportunity. I'm still pissed but at the same time feel for the kid. He's only 16, is he not? Besides, he's been playing well.
Madferret
5-24-05, 9:19 PM
Kravchuk was a mistake. Brought a great character to the team but a inconsistent player. He was healthy consistently if I remember.
Salo, was made of chalk. Both him and Arvy. But Salo would get hurt, and everyone would talk about his huge shot being missed now thats hes gone, then he'd come back and shoot like mad and everyone would love him for 2 games, then he'd go back to not shooting hardly, and then he'd get hurt. It was a charade I tell yas. Glad he's out West and we got Schaef for it also...
:thumb:
Because despite what you say he could still very well contribute. Bottom pairing defenseman actually play a fine role, although not to be confused with key players. Look at Volchenkov's rookie season as a prime example. He was a bottom pairing guy and had a very successful rookie campaigne despite not getting much playing time compared to guys like Chara, etc. But he did established himself as a future core player and one of the league's best open-ice hitters. I doubt Meszaros would have quite as much success because not only was the A-Trian further in his development, Volchenkov was a tank while Andrej can still stand to add a few pounds. But still, I don't doubt he too would show signs of improvement. And Schremp is hardly NHL ready IMO, even if we're talking small roles. He is, and may very well always be, a very one-dimensional forward. He'd never take to a bottom-six role at this stage in his career and isn't yet developed enough to play on a scoring line. Meszaros' well rounded, physical (boarderline dirty) game would enable him to make the transition to the NHL game, barring we keep him away from the Thronton's and continue to put Big Z against those guys.
And I feel it is worth mentioning I was exagerating with my time-on-ice figures just to further my point, although looking back it seems like a mistake. Meszaros would likely see at least 10-15 minutes per night for two reasons: defensemen just as a rule of thumb player more than forwards regardless of their experience, and no Ottawa defender (recently that is) has ever played anything less than 12 minutes per game if he manages to get a spot on the big team upon checking my facts on NHL.com. Even Vauclair player just under 13, and he's only made one appearance for us and not as good as Meszaros.
I thought 20 year olds could play in the AHL? Jeff Carter is only 20 and is currently having great success with the Phantoms during their playoff run. Zach Parise is onyl 20 aswell. Meszaros (currently 19), being born in October, will turn 20 just in time for the start of the next season. There's no way he'll go back to Vancouver. We'll make room for him in Ottawa if AHL/Europe are not available and Junior is the only option. Muckler has already stated he's take him on the roster today if he had to. Again, I'd like the kid to play in a lesser league right now, but NHL time would be much better than remaining stagnant in the WHL. Like what happened with Volchenkov, I seriously doubt we'd hurt his development by placing him on the big team. Granted, I think sending him to Binghamton is the best way to go.
Don't have time to answer the first part, however Jeff Carter wasn't playing for the Phantoms until the Sue was eliminated from the playoffs, and that wasn't by his choice. Zach Parise never played in the CHL. It's the contract between the CHL and the AHL/NHL that players like Meszaros can't skip their last season.
Don't have time to answer the first part, however Jeff Carter wasn't playing for the Phantoms until the Sue was eliminated from the playoffs, and that wasn't by his choice. Zach Parise never played in the CHL. It's the contract between the CHL and the AHL/NHL that players like Meszaros can't skip their last season.
True about Parise never playing in the CHL. I forgot about him playing in the States. I'll take your word with Meszaros, but I thought the guidelines were:
- Players drafted to the NHL out of NCAA or US High Schools can play in the AHL anytime after being drafted.
- Players drafted out of the CHL need to complete 4 years of Junior or be 20 years of age.
- CHL players can report to AHL teams after their club team gets eliminated, as already covered. I think this only happens when they are 19 or 20 but I'm not sure.
Basically, here's what I thought applied to Meszaros. He can't play in the AHL until he turned 20 OR until he completes 4 seasons in the CHL, whatever is sooner. Infact, to further complicate things, I thought this "20 year old" rule didn't apply to prospects drafted out of Europe, only those drafted out of the CHL. I'm actually going to look this up. At any rate, if Andrej can't play in Binghamton either expect him to go back to Europe for a year or get a spot out of camp ala Volchenkov (assuming his play warrants one).
Madferret
5-24-05, 10:51 PM
....Of All Time?
#27 HANK LAMMENS (93/94)
You might be right, I'm not sure how the rules change when he's a european player playing in the WHL, because he came over after he was drafted, unlike Hemsky who was drafted out of the Q.
Regardless, it is a very rare occurance, and should be interesting to see what happens. I completly forgot that Meszaros came over to Vancouver AFTER he was drafted, for whatever reason.. so you may just be right on him turnign 20 and being allowed in the AHL, which would be huge for the Sens.
....Of All Time?
#27 HANK LAMMENS (93/94)
I can barely remeber that guy. He couldn't have played too many games for us. For that matter, I don't think he played much in the NHL period. A journyman. Having a pitiful roster from head-to-toe that year save Yashin and Daigle (we didn't even break 40 pts and were last in the league by about 30 points IIRC), I assume he wasn't too impressive. :(
As for the Meszaros/AHL issue, I'm still pretty sure players drafted out of Europe can play in the AHL once they turn 20, regardles of previous CHL commitments. So that would mean he can join Binghamton this upcoming season (still haven't found any official rules). The Sens brass brought him over to learn to North American game, but they probably would've told him to stay in Europe if it meant they'd be tieing him down to a potentially inadeqaute league to suit his developmental needs in the future. They did invest a first round selection in him afterall.....
Madferret
5-25-05, 6:18 PM
Lammens was as good as it gets. Just look at our record year we had then. I mean come on, give Lammen credit where credit is due...
Lammens was as good as it gets. Just look at our record year we had then. I mean come on, give Lammen credit where credit is due...
As I said, I don't remember him much, if at all. You'll have to forgive me for assuming he was of poor quality - most of our team was that year.
*Looking back, he only played 27 games for us and appeared on the scoresheet but 3 times. And those 27 games were the only NHL contests he ever participated in. Perhaps I can be excused for forgetting about him after 10+ yeats, and dismissing him as an "also-ran"....... if he was half as good as you claim he was during those bleak years, good on him! :thumb:
Madferret
5-25-05, 9:46 PM
As I said, I don't remember him much, if at all. You'll have to forgive me for assuming he was of poor quality - most of our team was that year.
*Looking back, he only played 27 games for us and appeared on the scoresheet but 3 times. And those 27 games were the only NHL contests he ever participated in. Perhaps I can be excused for forgetting about him after 10+ yeats, and dismissing him as an "also-ran"....... if he was half as good as you claim he was during those bleak years, good on him! :thumb:
Andy, man. I think us proper Sens boys need to bring you out for a mans night on the town....I WAS KIDDING!!! The guy was trash. I just picked a name on the roster from 93/94 and ran with it.
Quit being so nice my friend.... :laughing:
leaferfan87
5-26-05, 12:14 AM
Wade Redden is clearly your best defensmen. Solid at both ends of the ice he has represented Canada on the world stage many times in the past and should for a long time to come.
Quit being so nice my friend.... :laughing:
Lol. No fair! I wasn't aware who he was! :laughing: Never trust a Ferret. :wicked:
Wade Redden is clearly your best defensmen. Solid at both ends of the ice he has represented Canada on the world stage many times in the past and should for a long time to come.
I think Chara is clearly the #1. I can see where some would make a case for Redden, but not with those points. Those are very general and not only apply to Chara aswell, but many other defensemen around the league.
Crazy Joe Devola
5-27-05, 11:15 AM
I disagree. He's underrated, because he rarely gets the attention of anyone. Redden quietly goes about his business shutting down top players. I admit he's had a couple of mistakes that have caused unnecessary losses for the Senators, but for the most part he's one of the league's most consistant defenders.
Sorry, top defenders don't make mistakes, which are more then a couple in Redden's case, like that that lose games.
For a fairly defensive defenceman, he's got some solid offensive numbers too:Also take a look at the thread starter for more numbers in Redden's favour.
Wade Redden has never been labelled as some sort defensive defenceman, ever. He is good both ways, but I wouldn't say he super excells in one category over the other. His numbers are greatly improved by benefitting from playing on the number one powerplay the last 2-3 seasons.
I don't understand where you get "overrated" and Wade Redden together.
I've seen the guy play over 200 times on live ice. I know his tendencies off the ice and the lifestyle he lives. He does not take it seriously enough IMO and if we want to make a big splash for a big power forward, he is going to be the real bait to deal, not Martin Havlat, whose name get's thrown around all the time. I think Redden is a good d-man, but don't buy into the Pierre McGuire hype about how good he is. He is not a playoff performer, which is what everything in Ottawa is now measured by. Regular season success doesn't cut it anymore in O-town. Its playoff results or bust and Redden has been a failure, or at least not delivered the goods.
Sorry, top defenders don't make mistakes.
Sure they do. Chara #1. Redden #2. I like our chances with this pair.
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