Beech Waived, I'm Delighted

[AtLossForWords]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/news_story/?ID=227916&hubname=nhl-canucks

Thread title really says enough. What do you think about this, Badcock?

[gordphish]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/news_story/?ID=227916&hubname=nhl-canucks

Thread title really says enough. What do you think about this, Badcock?

Ayup...smooth move there, Dave. Nice job...

[rustybadcock]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/news_story/?ID=227916&hubname=nhl-canucks

Thread title really says enough. What do you think about this, Badcock?

Dude, why does everything with you have to be so sullen? :conspire: Like honestly, whatever your problem is, is yours. And don't get into this, "aaa like what are you talking about?" cause it's as plain as day. It's exhausting and I am tired of it. You go and start a thread that basically says it all with statements like "with tensions around here" - Let me fill you in on something, the only tensions around here are the ones carried by you. So deal with it and stop deflecting your **** on me.

Thank you

Now - onto Beech. What is everyone's problem here. Nonis can't do anything right it seems. He tried something, it didn't work. Big whoop. If he did nothing, you'd bitch, if he does something, you bitch. I initially thought, "hey, WTF, he was high pick. Might be a diamond in the rough, you never know. I figured, just as I said, he'd get 5 or 6 games...he did **** with his chance to be a part of a good team. (Or do some of us think we're not a good team cause of some mid season struggles now:rolleyes: ) I also didn't know how to put this after I saw him interviewed. He's a bit of a weirdo. I still can't put my finger on it but perhaps he's still riding the fact he was a 7th overall...:shrug: I dunno, but he's a bust and now he's waived. I like that Nonis checked him out. What I in hindsight wish Nonis would have done with his gambling mood was plucking Recchi from the waiver wire...who knows, maybe it was on his mind.

Regardless, I hope he actually gets picked up by another club. But something tells me he's not going to. He had his shot in a hockey market on a team full of pluggers and **** the bed with it. He's not all that appealing at this moment in time....perhaps I am wrong. My hunch on him was...:cool:

RB

[gordphish]

Dude, why does everything with you have to be so sullen? :conspire: Like honestly, whatever your problem is, is yours. And don't get into this, "aaa like what are you talking about?" cause it's as plain as day. It's exhausting and I am tired of it. You go and start a thread that basically says it all with statements like "with tensions around here" - Let me fill you in on something, the only tensions around here are the ones carried by you. So deal with it and stop deflecting your **** on me.

Thank you

Now - onto Beech. What is everyone's problem here. Nonis can't do anything right it seems. He tried something, it didn't work. Big whoop. If he did nothing, you'd bitch, if he does something, you bitch. I initially thought, "hey, WTF, he was high pick. Might be a diamond in the rough, you never know. I figured, just as I said, he'd get 5 or 6 games...he did **** with his chance to be a part of a good team. (Or do some of us think we're not a good team cause of some mid season struggles now:rolleyes: ) I also didn't know how to put this after I saw him interviewed. He's a bit of a weirdo. I still can't put my finger on it but perhaps he's still riding the fact he was a 7th overall...:shrug: I dunno, but he's a bust and now he's waived. I like that Nonis checked him out. What I in hindsight wish Nonis would have done with his gambling mood was plucking Recchi from the waiver wire...who knows, maybe it was on his mind.

Regardless, I hope he actually gets picked up by another club. But something tells me he's not going to. He had his shot in a hockey market on a team full of pluggers and **** the bed with it. He's not all that appealing at this moment in time....perhaps I am wrong. My hunch on him was...:cool:

RB

Rusty, my problem with Nonis' moves is that they are mostly low-risk for other people's garbage. He's made two significant moves as GM...the Luongo trade (which was again, low risk IMO and not possible without Keenan's stubborness) and the Mitchell signing (which was a no-brainer because Mitchell wanted to sign here). All the rest have been low-risk, low pay-off. Sometimes you have to take the big risk to get the big pay-off.

He's taken the team to a certain rung on the ladder, and that's great. They are a hard-working team with a superstar goalie. Nothing wrong with that, to this point. But I'm tired of seeing GMs take this team only so far. He can't move forward by continuing to hope that he lucks into another Pyatt situation.

I'm fickle because I want the best. I want a championship here. I've made a huge emotional and significant financial investment in this team over the last 32 years. I want the team to pay up. Not 5 years from now, not 15 or 20 years from now. Right now. This year.

I said right from day one that whenever I saw Nonis straying from the path, I'd be on him like white on rice. I'm not changing that now. He has almost no rope to play with from me. I'm tired of the band-aids and the bargain-basement dregs. If they have to give up three first round picks to get a Stanley Cup, then that's what they do. Period.

He's spinning his wheels right now and trying to get blood from a stone when it comes to scoring from this group. You cannot rely on Burrows and Cooke to provide your secondary scoring and hope to be the last team standing. It's time to add that scoring, even if it means addition by subtracting.

[Nelson19777]

I gotta agree with ya Rusty, Nonis tried a bit of an experiment. It failed. $275,000 failure if no one picks him up. Big deal. That kind of money won't be the difference between winning cup or not.

[rustybadcock]

Rusty, my problem with Nonis' moves is that they are mostly low-risk for other people's garbage. He's made two significant moves as GM...the Luongo trade (which was again, low risk IMO and not possible without Keenan's stubborness) and the Mitchell signing (which was a no-brainer because Mitchell wanted to sign here). All the rest have been low-risk, low pay-off. Sometimes you have to take the big risk to get the big pay-off.

He's taken the team to a certain rung on the ladder, and that's great. They are a hard-working team with a superstar goalie. Nothing wrong with that, to this point. But I'm tired of seeing GMs take this team only so far. He can't move forward by continuing to hope that he lucks into another Pyatt situation.

I'm fickle because I want the best. I want a championship here. I've made a huge emotional and significant financial investment in this team over the last 32 years. I want the team to pay up. Not 5 years from now, not 15 or 20 years from now. Right now. This year.

I said right from day one that whenever I saw Nonis straying from the path, I'd be on him like white on rice. I'm not changing that now. He has almost no rope to play with from me. I'm tired of the band-aids and the bargain-basement dregs. If they have to give up three first round picks to get a Stanley Cup, then that's what they do. Period.

He's spinning his wheels right now and trying to get blood from a stone when it comes to scoring from this group. You cannot rely on Burrows and Cooke to provide your secondary scoring and hope to be the last team standing. It's time to add that scoring, even if it means addition by subtracting.

Hey, I of all people can appreciate ones commitment to a team and expectations of their overall performance and approach. I appreciate your point of view. BIG time. And perhaps you're right, it's time for him to make "the" move. If you look at the list of UFA's next year...not too tempting to say the least. Dumont, as mentioned before, is delivering. However, if you look at Nashville and especially their numbers, he's doing great there. They too have lost people of significance to injury. Especially Sullivan. However, they're winning and I see them as a legit dark horse in the West. they look to me like a dangerous bunch and the only way they're moving dumont is if there is an issue resigning him, which I somehow doubt.

All this chatter about Sundin...what real proof do we have that is was even a actually possibility? So far, it's you, I and everyone else under the hockey sun that thinks he's coming. I mean Eklund's talking now? :rolleyes: Whippidy do. That's all he does is speculate and talk really.

I guess what I am getting at is this. There isn't a deal out there that really satisfies this teams true needs. Up the middle that is. A scoring center? Yeah right. Sundin. Sure, he might be available. Maybe....but that seems to be where it begins and ends. However, on the hot stove last weekend they're saying Jokinen is sick and tired of whathisface in Florida. Coach's name totally escaping me....:rolleyes: :confused: I can see his face. :no: ...bah... anyway, they were saying these two don't get along. So...there's a guy I'd be super interesting in "rolling the dice" on as you say. And as I said previously, Bourdon is not playing that well, I hate to be the barer of bad news but since he's returned here to Winnipeg he's just not been that good. Inconsistent....he figured his last trip to Vancouver was one way...well, didn't work out that way and he's playing like a kid who's got his nose out of joint. IMO if people want this kid for someone significant...DO IT! However, I don't think he's apathetic approach has gone un-noticed. He's not that big a deal to people. They all want the gem, they all want Edler and who wouldn't? He's excellent. This kid's really got everything Bourdon has save Luc's fighting ability and shitty attitude.

And after all the time and money we've spent developing Kelser I just cannot see moving him. However, he's not producing the numbers a second line center should IMO, thus he is an excellent 3rd line guy. He needs to focus on his shut down roll IMO cause in recent games he's really gotten away from that far as I can see. Everyone (including myself at times) shat all over Mo but he was a 20 point guy in 30 games with a seriously injured hand....starting to look better and better every day from the IR list. ;) The biggest mistake ever made with Mo was letting things like his hand and hip go too far before it forced him from the line up.

So, Sundin. I agree, you bring him in today and it wouldn't surprise me one iota if Naslund pots 20 before the 2nd season starts. there is one thing I like about Jokinen though, he fights and you know darn well how much I like that in a player especially one in the top 6. :wicked:

RB

Oh and I was thinking of Jacque Martain...:rolleyes: :laughing:

[rustybadcock]

I gotta agree with ya Rusty, Nonis tried a bit of an experiment. It failed. $275,000 failure if no one picks him up. Big deal. That kind of money won't be the difference between winning cup or not.

Nice to see you dropping in - :thumb:

Speaking of these experiments...is anyone aware of a link to the waiver wire?...that would be nice to add to the site.

RB

[gordphish]

I gotta agree with ya Rusty, Nonis tried a bit of an experiment. It failed. $275,000 failure if no one picks him up. Big deal. That kind of money won't be the difference between winning cup or not.

For a team with its nose up against the cap, that can be a lot of money. Diod anyone really expect Beech to do what Morrison, Smolinski, Kesler, Ritchie and now Linden have failed to do? Give me a break.

[gordphish]

Hey, I of all people can appreciate ones commitment to a team and expectations of their overall performance and approach. I appreciate your point of view. BIG time. And perhaps you're right, it's time for him to make "the" move. If you look at the list of UFA's next year...not too tempting to say the least. Dumont, as mentioned before, is delivering. However, if you look at Nashville and especially their numbers, he's doing great there. They too have lost people of significance to injury. Especially Sullivan. However, they're winning and I see them as a legit dark horse in the West. they look to me like a dangerous bunch and the only way they're moving dumont is if there is an issue resigning him, which I somehow doubt.

All this chatter about Sundin...what real proof do we have that is was even a actually possibility? So far, it's you, I and everyone else under the hockey sun that thinks he's coming. I mean Eklund's talking now? :rolleyes: Whippidy do. That's all he does is speculate and talk really.

I guess what I am getting at is this. There isn't a deal out there that really satisfies this teams true needs. Up the middle that is. A scoring center? Yeah right. Sundin. Sure, he might be available. Maybe....but that seems to be where it begins and ends. However, on the hot stove last weekend they're saying Jokinen is sick and tired of whathisface in Florida. Coach's name totally escaping me....:rolleyes: :confused: I can see his face. :no: ...bah... anyway, they were saying these two don't get along. So...there's a guy I'd be super interesting in "rolling the dice" on as you say. And as I said previously, Bourdon is not playing that well, I hate to be the barer of bad news but since he's returned here to Winnipeg he's just not been that good. Inconsistent....he figured his last trip to Vancouver was one way...well, didn't work out that way and he's playing like a kid who's got his nose out of joint. IMO if people want this kid for someone significant...DO IT! However, I don't think he's apathetic approach has gone un-noticed. He's not that big a deal to people. They all want the gem, they all want Edler and who wouldn't? He's excellent. This kid's really got everything Bourdon has save Luc's fighting ability and shitty attitude.

And after all the time and money we've spent developing Kelser I just cannot see moving him. However, he's not producing the numbers a second line center should IMO, thus he is an excellent 3rd line guy. He needs to focus on his shut down roll IMO cause in recent games he's really gotten away from that far as I can see. Everyone (including myself at times) shat all over Mo but he was a 20 point guy in 30 games with a seriously injured hand....starting to look better and better every day from the IR list. ;) The biggest mistake ever made with Mo was letting things like his hand and hip go too far before it forced him from the line up.

So, Sundin. I agree, you bring him in today and it wouldn't surprise me one iota if Naslund pots 20 before the 2nd season starts. there is one thing I like about Jokinen though, he fights and you know darn well how much I like that in a player especially one in the top 6. :wicked:

RB

Oh and I was thinking of Jacque Martain...:rolleyes: :laughing:

Rusty, some guys just wither when they aren't being challenged. I see Bourdon and possibly Schneider as these type of players. Bourdon reaches a certain level in junior and the A, and when he isn't moved on to the next level where he belongs, he gets bored and lazy. Is he right to take that approach? Probably not. But, to quote another lazy player, 'it is what it is'.

[rustybadcock]

Rusty, some guys just wither when they aren't being challenged. I see Bourdon and possibly Schneider as these type of players. Bourdon reaches a certain level in junior and the A, and when he isn't moved on to the next level where he belongs, he gets bored and lazy. Is he right to take that approach? Probably not. But, to quote another lazy player, 'it is what it is'.

Okay...I see your point. Never saw it that way, however, being placed in the A where he might not be challenged should open the door to groom other qualities such as leadership. Just saying....

Who's the quote?

RB

[gordphish]

Okay...I see your point. Never saw it that way, however, being placed in the A where he might not be challenged should open the door to groom other qualities such as leadership. Just saying....

Who's the quote?

RB

I'm not saying that that is the case either way with Bourdon...you'd likely have a more educated opinion on that than I would. But it's a possibilty IMO. I really don't understand why he was sent down the last time anyways. He was playing well, especially on the PP.

I dunno...Vigneault's whole 'the ice time goes to those who earn it' approach seems to have evaporated.

The quote was from Bertuzzi.

[rustybadcock]

I'm not saying that that is the case either way with Bourdon...you'd likely have a more educated opinion on that than I would. But it's a possibilty IMO. I really don't understand why he was sent down the last time anyways. He was playing well, especially on the PP.

I dunno...Vigneault's whole 'the ice time goes to those who earn it' approach seems to have evaporated.

The quote was from Bertuzzi.

Good enough man.

you are right that he was playing well, I found that he was more comfortable the last time up. And with Willie out I wonder if he might get a call up after the AS break if Willie should be out even longer.

Why do you say that V's mantra has evaporated? I don't see that - Mayson was recalled almost immediately. Jaffrey is back up too. I see the whole Beech thing as a shot in the dark, that shot hit nothing. People are expected to give and take on this team, seems to be what is happening.

On a side note, I've like Weaver's play. He's pretty crafty for a little guy. Especially on the D line.

Bert...forgot that one...

Later
RB

[AtLossForWords]

Dude, why does everything with you have to be so sullen? Like honestly, whatever your problem is, is yours. And don't get into this, "aaa like what are you talking about?" cause it's as plain as day. It's exhausting and I am tired of it. You go and start a thread that basically says it all with statements like "with tensions around here" - Let me fill you in on something, the only tensions around here are the ones carried by you. So deal with it and stop deflecting your **** on me.

I'm sorry Rusty, I'm not deflecting my **** on you. I honestly ask you because your a bud of mine around here who has a difference of opinion from me on issues like this. I'm interested in what you have to say about something like this. Perhaps you might be someone who wanted Beech to have more than a week long shot with this team before they waived him. I only take the time out of my day to ask you because I respect what you have to say.

Maybe you read "here" differently than I intend you to. When I say "here" I mean the Canucks and their fans. I think it's obvious to all of us that after November we have been a little disappointed with the play of the team over the last month and some of the front office decisions regarding player personel. I don't mean that I have "tension" with any of you here at hs. Sorry for making you believe such a thing.

Personally I don't like our coach's fascination with checkers and pluggers. I don't like how he is hesitant to give guys down in Manitoba a chance to stick with the big club when they're playing well here.

For specifics I didn't like that Raymond and Jaffray were sent down to give guys like Beech, Isbister, and Rypien ice time. None of these guys delivered anything to our lineup we don't already have enough of. Other than Isbister doing a decent job on our fourth line with his size.

Mason Raymond, Jason Jaffray, and Luc Bourdon add to the skill level of this team. Jaffray wasn't putting up the points, but he's a playmaking center who can fill the slot on the second line effectively when Morrison is out.

Sedin Sedin Pyatt
Naslund Jaffray Raymond
Burrows Kesler Cooke
Brown Ritchie Linden

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Salo
Krajicek Miller
Bourdon

Is the lineup I really want to see with this team. Bourdon would play as much as he sits if not more given our injury trouble on the blueline. He'll spark this team with a big hit and boost the powerplay with his shot. That's something Mike Weaver will never do, and reasons why Bourdon should be playing here right not not Weaver.

Mike Brown was a fighter I liked. He would fight anyone, he would play smart hockey, and he would give his coach everything he had. Jeff Cowan doesn't have anywhere near what Mike Brown has in hockey smarts (Cowan takes many more minor penalties) or speed. Brown will put something through a wall to beat out an icing call, Jeff Cowan won't.

Instead of Mason Raymond and Jason Jaffray staying in this lineup they put in guys like Beech and Rypien who didn't show that much effort, didn't hit the net with any shots (Beech had one), and didn't help this team win games. There is no replacement for hockey smarts in this league anymore when it comes to scoring goals and Mason Raymond and Jason Jaffray have more of that than any other forwards in the franchise outside of the Sedins, Naslund, Kesler, and Morrison right now. The Canucks should be using that, not sending it to Manitoba when it doesn't work for a game or two.

I hope that this pickup of Beech is a lesson for Nonis. A lesson that it isn't going to be more pluggers that will help this team. His team needs more hockey smarts and skill, and they should use every bit of it that they can in their organization if they want to score more goals and win more games.

[TimmyTabasco]

Big deal

Gave him a try, didn't work out, onto the next

[Nelson19777]

The Caps already took him off our hands. So the little experiment cost us about $40,000 of cap space. Indeed.... Bid deal.:coffee:

[gordphish]

The Caps already took him off our hands. So the little experiment cost us about $40,000 of cap space. Indeed.... Bid deal.:coffee:

Yeah..go small, go cheap, go quietly into that good night...go Nonis!

[Nelson19777]

Geez, what's the problem. Nonis takes a chance on a past first rounder, it doesn't work out, doesn't cost us anything and you want to Lynch him for going too small. Gimmie a break. Every deal can't be a Luongo. I'm pretty sure there isn't a line-up of teams that want to off load their stars for our garbage/picks/prospects. Sometimes you get lucky picking up these kinds of F.A.'s. If you can better the team for nothing, don't you try?

[gordphish]

Geez, what's the problem. Nonis takes a chance on a past first rounder, it doesn't work out, doesn't cost us anything and you want to Lynch him for going too small. Gimmie a break. Every deal can't be a Luongo. I'm pretty sure there isn't a line-up of teams that want to off load their stars for our garbage/picks/prospects. Sometimes you get lucky picking up these kinds of F.A.'s. If you can better the team for nothing, don't you try?

On Kris Beech? As a second line centre? I don't care how much it cost, it was a waste of time. Beech had played 16 games with the Jackets before Nonis grabbed him, the rest of the year was in the AHL. How many Isbisters does one team need?