You're the Canucks GM....

[gordphish]

That's a nice lineup, but Chicago wouldn't take a blueliner for a forward at this point. Especially a young blueliner.

I don't know if the Montreal trade could happen either. Montreal probably wants size in a rental more so than anything else. Naslund doesn't fill that need for them. They might like the Champagne he would add to the dressing room though.

Actually, from what I've heard, a puck moving defenseman with size is exactly what the Hawks are looking for. They'd like to add more scoring up front, but which team in the West wouldn't? They also would like to add the sandpaper to their top 9 forwards that Cooke could give them.

If they can get a better deal for an underachieving and injury prone former first round pick, the more power to them.

As for the Naslund deal, that is actually a very good deal for Montreal. Ryder and Streit are both UFAs this summer, and Streit at least will likely be looking for a big raise considering he's in his early thirties and barely making more than the league minimum. I think Ryder walks regardless of the Habs offer him, if they offer him anything at all. Miller gives them that vet defender every team would like for a playoff run, and their blueline could really use his physical play and steadying influence. The Habs are a young team, and a deal like that would give a good shot at winning the east without mortgaging any of their real future.

[AtLossForWords]

I think some rebuilding is in order, but can you get Luongo to believe in going through a year or two of that? I think he had enough of rebuilding in Florida.

If we have a losing season next year, so what? Maybe the team can tank the season so bad they're in the John Tavares sweepstakes. That would probably be the best thing that could happen to this team, acquiring a savior through the draft.

I don't want to repeat, but last year was the year to mortgage the farm for Forsberg or even Tkachuk. We had legitimate reasons last year to believe we had a chance at the Cup. One more goal a game, and we might have gotten past the Ducks. Instead we got guys like Smolinski and Sopel who were more of a liability than an impact.

I'd try to convince Naslund to waive his NTC and try to pedal him for good prospects or very early picks. Any deal I send Naslund away either gives me a great bluechip, or it sends me a first round pick.

I'd do the same with Salo, only I'd even take a second round pick for him.

If I can't get anything for Cooke, I let him walk.

Morrison will not fetch a return with his injury, so he walks at the summer too.

Then I ice one of the most pathetic Canuck teams in recent history only with Luongo giving them a shot to win every night.

If I'm the luckiest guy in the world I draft Taveres with the first overall pick, and then I get a key free agent too.

All I can really say is how I want the core of my team too look from what I already have.

Sedin Sedin Pyatt
----- Kesler Raymond
Burrows Ritchie --------
Brown White Grabner

Bieksa Mitchell
Ohlund Edler
Bourdon Krajicek
McIver

Luongo
Schnieder

Next season is the year to see what your young guys have got. I want to know if Bourdon, Raymond, Grabner, and maybe White can handle an NHL season. They'll struggle, but that puts me into the Taveras sweepstakes, and I just hope they get better.

I'd also sign some second tier free agents like Jarkko Ruutu for my third line, and maybe even Kristian Huselius to play on my first line.

The defense on our team is injury prone, but it is solid. I like the look of Bieksa, Mitchell, Edler, and Bourdon as a core. Ohlund I'm happy enough to keep as long as he wants to be here. He's earned my respect through his solid play year in and year out.

The trouble for this team is the forwards. They got obsessed with checkers, and now they can't score goals.

[TimmyTabasco]

Sorry Lossy, but thats a brutal lineup

They have to win in Vancouver, and that lineup won't win. White isn't ready for college hockey, let alone the NHL

Anyway, again on Streit..why move him? The Habs are winning, and he is an important part of their dominant PP. I just don't see Gainey moving him. Without him, its just Markov handling the PP. And, I don't see the point of trading Miller. They need his experience

But, I do like the idea of Ryder...

I'm not happy to see Dumont signed to that deal. He would have been an ideal winger for the canucks..Its too bad Nonis hasn't been paying attention

Here are some names..

-Mike Cammalleri ..tsn says he could be moved..and would be very interesting..great speed..Source (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=228690&hubname=nhl)

-Justin Williams..yeah, he's injured. But, also has great speed..won a cup. He could be obtained during the offseason. I'd move Bieksa for him

-Chuck Kobasew..a hard working winger, having a good season. He would fit very well

-Martin Erat..will he be left behind, or signed? It looks like he will be signed..but could be the odd man out

-Anson Carter and Forsberg..at this point..both appealing...why not?

-Jokinen/Horton

Anyway, just some names to consider..

I believe this team is two top six forwards away, and perhaps a bottom six forward..from competing at an elite level

[rustybadcock]

Sorry Lossy, but thats a brutal lineup

They have to win in Vancouver, and that lineup won't win. White isn't ready for college hockey, let alone the NHL

Anyway, again on Streit..why move him? The Habs are winning, and he is an important part of their dominant PP. I just don't see Gainey moving him. Without him, its just Markov handling the PP. And, I don't see the point of trading Miller. They need his experience

But, I do like the idea of Ryder...

I'm not happy to see Dumont signed to that deal. He would have been an ideal winger for the canucks..Its too bad Nonis hasn't been paying attention

Here are some names..

-Mike Cammalleri ..tsn says he could be moved..and would be very interesting..great speed..Source (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=228690&hubname=nhl)

-Justin Williams..yeah, he's injured. But, also has great speed..won a cup. He could be obtained during the offseason. I'd move Bieksa for him

-Chuck Kobasew..a hard working winger, having a good season. He would fit very well

-Martin Erat..will he be left behind, or signed? It looks like he will be signed..but could be the odd man out

-Anson Carter and Forsberg..at this point..both appealing...why not?

-Jokinen/Horton

Anyway, just some names to consider..

I believe this team is two top six forwards away, and perhaps a bottom six forward..from competing at an elite level

I like Erat from you list along with Foppa and Horton. Man that kid is good. Also really like Camilarri.

Jokinen, anyone else here he's been accused of lending Finish hockey legend and accused drug ring leader Jere Karalahti 15 grand? Until that is dealt with Jokinen can sit in Florida, our team has enough problems.

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/story.html?id=8fd973cc-438c-4987-a86a-a7bdbc0eeefd&p=2

The info is about half way down the page. Interesting that the mainstream media is on this but TSN and the like are not talking about it whatsoever...:conspire:

RB

[KB in Kelowna]

Sorry Lossy, but thats a brutal lineup

They have to win in Vancouver, and that lineup won't win. White isn't ready for college hockey, let alone the NHL

Anyway, again on Streit..why move him? The Habs are winning, and he is an important part of their dominant PP. I just don't see Gainey moving him. Without him, its just Markov handling the PP. And, I don't see the point of trading Miller. They need his experience

But, I do like the idea of Ryder...

I'm not happy to see Dumont signed to that deal. He would have been an ideal winger for the canucks..Its too bad Nonis hasn't been paying attention

Here are some names..

-Mike Cammalleri ..tsn says he could be moved..and would be very interesting..great speed..Source (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=228690&hubname=nhl)

-Justin Williams..yeah, he's injured. But, also has great speed..won a cup. He could be obtained during the offseason. I'd move Bieksa for him

-Chuck Kobasew..a hard working winger, having a good season. He would fit very well

-Martin Erat..will he be left behind, or signed? It looks like he will be signed..but could be the odd man out

-Anson Carter and Forsberg..at this point..both appealing...why not?

-Jokinen/Horton

Anyway, just some names to consider..

I believe this team is two top six forwards away, and perhaps a bottom six forward..from competing at an elite level
Unless Wilson completely looses it Cammalleri is not going anywhere in LA.
Kobasew would help on the second line. I don't think Forsberg is coming here unless somebody has pictures, I see him back in Philadelphia for some reason ( they are contending in the East and he feels he did not fufill his obligation there on his last go round :shrug: ). Erat possibly at the right price.

Remember when the discussion on the Canucks was all about the lack of secondary scoring, now it seems to be the lack of a big impact primary scoring. If we hear this team start to talk about the injuries then it is time to throw in the towel, because mediocre teams will always rely on the injury excuse.

If you cast your memory back to 2006 when the Canucks lost the 8th spot in the west to the Oilers in that turtle derby at the end of the season, it basically came down to the fact they could not beat the then 15th place Blues. For the lurking Oiler loyalists outhere, I know that they couldn't beat the Oil that year either, but if the Canucks took half those games, your team dosen't have a sniff at the last playoff spot. This year they have been unable to finish off the Kings and lost outright to the Lightning and now a shoot out to the Panthers. As Yogi Berra once said "it is deja vu, all over again.":mad:

[TimmyTabasco]

Who's Wilson? ;)

Anyway..agreed on Foppa

Not sure about Cammalleri. They have quite a lot of depth, and if the deal was right...?

Kobasew would be similar to Pyatt. Solid winger who can play on either the top two lines. Plus, he's speedy, two way, and has a R shot. But, who would Boston want? Thats the question

Erat would be an interesting possibility. He's a RFA, and seems due for a breakout season. Again, though..what would they want? As mentioned before, a deal for a top six forward, and a defenseman would be a good idea(via Nashville)

And again, Jeff Carter. He's also a RFA, playing quite well..and could be made available..especially if the Flyers sign Foppa. He would look very good on the Canucks

[KB in Kelowna]

Who's Wilson? ;)


D"oh:o I meant Dean Lombardi.

[rustybadcock]

Who's Wilson? ;)

Anyway..agreed on Foppa

Not sure about Cammalleri. They have quite a lot of depth, and if the deal was right...?

Kobasew would be similar to Pyatt. Solid winger who can play on either the top two lines. Plus, he's speedy, two way, and has a R shot. But, who would Boston want? Thats the question

Erat would be an interesting possibility. He's a RFA, and seems due for a breakout season. Again, though..what would they want? As mentioned before, a deal for a top six forward, and a defenseman would be a good idea(via Nashville)

And again, Jeff Carter. He's also a RFA, playing quite well..and could be made available..especially if the Flyers sign Foppa. He would look very good on the Canucks

I mentioned Jeff Carter many times in the past....I am all over him dawning the Orca.

If I am rebuilding, and I am NHL level GM I am thinking Canadians the whole way. Every year the cup is won, the winning team is laced with them. At least 15 Canucks in the starting line ups. Maybe not every year but you get me drift.

It might take some time and some effort but for my money I think the heart and soul of a cup contender must be built on a foundation of people who truly long for Lord Stanley. It should be the only collective reasoning for playing on this team IMO. I don't necessarily see that in this bunch. I've said it in the past, doesn't really matter who's on the team, it matters where their priorities lay. And far too many people are playing hockey in the NHL and they're simply getting by. They're here for the money...the ego stroke and then their teams....:conspire:

The Psychology of the team is paramount; the goal must be defined. Seems to me this team is worried about other things....thus their current state. They're playing like individuals again and there isn't enough superiorly talented individuals on this team to go at it alone....there really never is on any team. Anyway, I think it's high time people at the top of the Canucks hockey club to make some bold decisions. And maybe Gordo's really right, Nonis is still very much an apprentice. His legacy might very well not be that he landed Luongo....but that he lost him. :eek: ;)

On a positive note, the Canucks are not alone in their woes. Others are losing and losing a lot. The Ducks are now at 6 L in a row! Massive. The Flames also lost last night....Iginla hasn't scored in 9! Tough times never last tough teams do....I think our group will get through. They have to cause I don't see much coming before the deadline....I mean....who? How? From where? I just have my doubts the more I think about it. They're gonna ride this wave out and hope to hell they can still be within striking distance once the cavalry returns ala Bieksa, Mo, Lucas, Mitchell etc.

RB

[AtLossForWords]

Rusty I don't think that it's necessarily Canadians that win Cups, but a coaching system that clearly defines what players are expected to do. In places like Chicago, Nashville, and Florida however good or bad the team may be, they don't seem to get through to their players that the goal is a cup and not to just win the division or make the playoffs and see what happens from there.

Detroit contends for a Cup every year, they have a good system in place that defines what each player is expected to do and how to accomplish that. Detroit's core of Europeans (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Holmstrom) haven't been the leaders on the Detroit Cup teams, but they've been part of Cup Winners, and Europeans have been a major building block for them.

[rustybadcock]

Rusty I don't think that it's necessarily Canadians that win Cups, but a coaching system that clearly defines what players are expected to do. In places like Chicago, Nashville, and Florida however good or bad the team may be, they don't seem to get through to their players that the goal is a cup and not to just win the division or make the playoffs and see what happens from there.

Detroit contends for a Cup every year, they have a good system in place that defines what each player is expected to do and how to accomplish that. Detroit's core of Europeans (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Holmstrom) haven't been the leaders on the Detroit Cup teams, but they've been part of Cup Winners, and Europeans have been a major building block for them.

Really, you don't think that having rostered Canadians makes much matter?? :slant:

06/07 Ducks, 23 rostered Canucks
05/06 Cains, 13 rostered Canucks
03/04 Lightening 15 Canucks
02/03 Devils 16 Canucks
01/02 Wings 13 Canucks
00/01 aves 17 Canucks....

I think its the only way to win one....;)

the wings haven't won since 02....:conspire: Today they sport 10....and I wouldn't be overly surprised if they brought in a few more. You must have the heart of a Canadian to win in this league. These facts don't lie.

Aaaannnd, the Canucks have 18 Canadians....I like our odds when the going gets tough as it is today.

A big ole heart to heart will bring the boys around...

And further to my last post that initiated this, I would build my team around a core of Canadians. We have Luo...I think someone of the ilk of Vinny in TBay or a Heatley type is the missing piece of this clubs leadership. I think Naslund has gone too far down the rabbit hole....I just cannot see how he's going to lead them to the promise land. Sorry...:no:

RB

[gordphish]

Really, you don't think that having rostered Canadians makes much matter?? :slant:

06/07 Ducks, 23 rostered Canucks
05/06 Cains, 13 rostered Canucks
03/04 Lightening 15 Canucks
02/03 Devils 16 Canucks
01/02 Wings 13 Canucks
00/01 aves 17 Canucks....

I think its the only way to win one....;)

the wings haven't won since 02....:conspire: Today they sport 10....and I wouldn't be overly surprised if they brought in a few more. You must have the heart of a Canadian to win in this league. These facts don't lie.

Aaaannnd, the Canucks have 18 Canadians....I like our odds when the going gets tough as it is today.

A big ole heart to heart will bring the boys around...

And further to my last post that initiated this, I would build my team around a core of Canadians. We have Luo...I think someone of the ilk of Vinny in TBay or a Heatley type is the missing piece of this clubs leadership. I think Naslund has gone too far down the rabbit hole....I just cannot see how he's going to lead them to the promise land. Sorry...:no:

RB

How is it we have 18 Canadians? We have the Sedins, Naslund, Kesler, Ohlund, Salo, Edler, Krajicek, and Miller. That's half the roster right there from parts outside of the Great White North...Perhaps you meant 8?

I do believe that Rusty has a point, though. It's still the guys that will bleed for the Cup that have the best chances at winning it. I still don't think that the majority of European players, especially Swedes, really get what it means and what it takes to win it all in the NHL.

You can point to Detroit all you want, but the heart and soul of those Wings teams that won three Cups in six years was Yzerman and Shanahan, both Canadian.

[rustybadcock]

How is it we have 18 Canadians? We have the Sedins, Naslund, Kesler, Ohlund, Salo, Edler, Krajicek, and Miller. That's half the roster right there from parts outside of the Great White North...Perhaps you meant 8?

I do believe that Rusty has a point, though. It's still the guys that will bleed for the Cup that have the best chances at winning it. I still don't think that the majority of European players, especially Swedes, really get what it means and what it takes to win it all in the NHL.

You can point to Detroit all you want, but the heart and soul of those Wings teams that won three Cups in six years was Yzerman and Shanahan, both Canadian.

http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN


Count the Canadian flags....there's 18 of them. Rostered players....not all regulars but black aces are arguably more important then people give credit to.

You get my point exactly, funny you should mention shanny. I do believe I mentioned him as a must have when he decided to leave DET as a UFA. people scoffed at his 4 mil from the Rags but you know what, he's a leader and the kind of guy who will smash someones pallet into next year to protect his goaltenders and his teammates...just ask Morrison and his lisp courtesy of a shanny cross check. ;) I am sure we all recall...:pimp: Regardless, I call him a leader and if not for having Jagr the whine master, the Rangers would be a better team from his leadership.

Once Shanny left Mo town so went their balls. Maybe this year they will prove my theory wrong but I have my doubts. The Ducks are going to stomp everyone if and when they gel and of course this statement really depends on Selanne finding someone to score with....I suspect that someone will be Weight.



RB

[Nelson19777]

http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=VAN


Count the Canadian flags....there's 18 of them. Rostered players....not all regulars but black aces are arguably more important then people give credit to.

You get my point exactly, funny you should mention shanny. I do believe I mentioned him as a must have when he decided to leave DET as a UFA. people scoffed at his 4 mil from the Rags but you know what, he's a leader and the kind of guy who will smash someones pallet into next year to protect his goaltenders and his teammates...just ask Morrison and his lisp courtesy of a shanny cross check. ;) I am sure we all recall...:pimp: Regardless, I call him a leader and if not for having Jagr the whine master, the Rangers would be a better team from his leadership.

Once Shanny left Mo town so went their balls. Maybe this year they will prove my theory wrong but I have my doubts. The Ducks are going to stomp everyone if and when they gel and of course this statement really depends on Selanne finding someone to score with....I suspect that someone will be Weight.



RB

It better happen soon, because as much as we've been crapping down the necks of our own Canucks. The `Mighty' ones have a mere 3 point lead on our Canucks who just happen to have 3 less games played. As I see it the Ducks have got just as good a chance of missing the playoffs this year as the Nucks.

I guess I just fail to see the powerhouse that this Duck team appears to be to everyone else. :shrug:

[AtLossForWords]

Gordo if there is one Euro group that I would bank on to help lead to a Cup, it is the Swedes, not the Russians, not the Czechs, not the Fins, but the Swedes.

Now nothing is ever going to replace what Canadians mean to hockey or winning a Stanley Cup, but history has slighted the numbers in their favor. Of course you can point to history as a way of showing how Canadians lead to Cups, but there was a long time when the NHL was almost 100% Canadian, and it is still a strongly Canadian league. Only very recently has the NHL become so international.

I'm not trying to say that Swedes didn't play in the '80s, but almost every team's roster is going to be stocked with Canadians, with a Swede, Russian, or Fin here or there.

In the future as the hockey continues to grow internationally and more European players come over to the NHL, you're going to see more Cup winners with more Europeans as core players.

Swedes I really see as the most suitable players to the North American game. The reason why Swedes are so successful in International play lately taking Gold at the Olympics, Silver at the last World Junior tournament, and I believe they won a World Championchip sometime recently too is because they by into their coach's system more than any other group of Euros.

Russians and Czechs have produced excellent individual players, but they play much more like individuals. Guys like Jagr and Kovalev are not as pleasantly disposed to following their coach the way a guy like Alfredsson or Zetterberg is.

I like the Canucks mix of Canadians and Swedes with the odd American tossed in their. It builds a good team system, which is what you need to follow to a tee in the NHL to win now.

You could have a core which is must worse than to mix Canucks and Swedes.

[rustybadcock]

It better happen soon, because as much as we've been crapping down the necks of our own Canucks. The `Mighty' ones have a mere 3 point lead on our Canucks who just happen to have 3 less games played. As I see it the Ducks have got just as good a chance of missing the playoffs this year as the Nucks.

I guess I just fail to see the powerhouse that this Duck team appears to be to everyone else. :shrug:

I see what you're saying but before this current losing streak of theirs they were playing some really good hockey. Getzlaf was player of the week I believe. I think they're just too good to be playing this badly. I suppose one could associate their current play with the introduction of talent so late. It always seems to take time for people to gel. Unfortunately this is what I believe is part of the Canucks problems. IT's hard to form the feel of a team when every night you're playing with a new body out there. No one can build any momentum, any cohesiveness with one another. Aside from the Twins of course. With our injuries this has made things very tough on all departments of our club. From coaching to playing to the training staff. Everyone is worked more when people are in and out of a line up. Hell, one of the hardest working people on the Canucks right about now is the dude who sews the names on the jerseys :laughing: :laughing:. I really believe this group is totally exhausted by this seasons run of luck.


RB

[gordphish]

If Nonis is looking to shore up the defense in the hopes that they can somehow hold on to a playoff spot until people start getting healthy, Daryl Sydor would be a safe way to go. He's been a healthy scratch in Pittsburgh of late, and he doesn't make that much.

He's under contract next season as well, so he wouldn't be a pure rental. I think he'd be the perfect fit to shore up the defense. He can augment the PP with a good shot, and moves the puck with efficiency. And most importantly, he doesn't miss games due to injury.

What the Pens might want for him, who knows? Although they've been going with youth, I'm sure the idea of having a veteren defender around for depth in the playoffs would make it tough to pry him lose, but you never know. Maybe Bourdon for Sydor and a second round pick?

[rustybadcock]

If Nonis is looking to shore up the defense in the hopes that they can somehow hold on to a playoff spot until people start getting healthy, Daryl Sydor would be a safe way to go. He's been a healthy scratch in Pittsburgh of late, and he doesn't make that much.

He's under contract next season as well, so he wouldn't be a pure rental. I think he'd be the perfect fit to shore up the defense. He can augment the PP with a good shot, and moves the puck with efficiency. And most importantly, he doesn't miss games due to injury.

What the Pens might want for him, who knows? Although they've been going with youth, I'm sure the idea of having a veteren defender around for depth in the playoffs would make it tough to pry him lose, but you never know. Maybe Bourdon for Sydor and a second round pick?

Funny I was looking at the 04 line up the other day of Tampa's cup winner and he was on it. I think it's a great idea and at this point the phone calls to Winnipeg are so frequent I think I even heard mine ring...:laughing: :pimp:

I am good to go you know. ....:boogie: :wicked: :wave:

You think they'd take Salo for him......:wicked: Now that's a trade....

RB

[TimmyTabasco]

Sydor, and a 2nd for Bourdon? I think we could get more

Sydor is on the decline, and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance as PP. Check his stats. 8 points, 1 goal..on an offensive team. So, how would he fit with a defensive team?

You could point to his 21 points last season, with the defense oriented Stars. But, I really think Miller remains a better option..

Florida
Horton
Montador


for
Vancouver
1st round pick
Luc Bourdon
Sami Salo


I would include Van Ryn(and toss in a 2nd round pick), due to his reported clashes with Martin(but who doesn't on that team), however he's injured

[gordphish]

Sydor, and a 2nd for Bourdon? I think we could get more

Sydor is on the decline, and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentance as PP. Check his stats. 8 points, 1 goal..on an offensive team. So, how would he fit with a defensive team?

You could point to his 21 points last season, with the defense oriented Stars. But, I really think Miller remains a better option..

Florida
Horton
Montador


for
Vancouver
1st round pick
Luc Bourdon
Sami Salo


I would include Van Ryn(and toss in a 2nd round pick), due to his reported clashes with Martin(but who doesn't on that team), however he's injured

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going take Sami Salo and the 11 million left on his contract. They will have to either put up with Mr. Glass for another three seasons or eat it and buy him out.

[TimmyTabasco]

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going take Sami Salo and the 11 million left on his contract. They will have to either put up with Mr. Glass for another three seasons or eat it and buy him out.

Someone might take him, especially if they dont play such a defensive game which could lead to injuries

[TimmyTabasco]

So, who will be dealing..and who won't?

It seems the Preds are in the thick of things..and won't be dealing. But then again..Mason as your starter..how far will he take you in the playoffs?

The Kings will obviously be sellers. Names here would include Nagy, Cammalleri, Frolov, among others

The Blues may be sellers..depending on the next week. Interesting name here would be Jackman..

At this point, I just want to see this team improve..Nonis has to get something done. Either shore up the defense (which can't seem to withstand the system), or add scorers to score their way out of this funk. Or better, both

[gordphish]

So, who will be dealing..and who won't?

It seems the Preds are in the thick of things..and won't be dealing. But then again..Mason as your starter..how far will he take you in the playoffs?

The Kings will obviously be sellers. Names here would include Nagy, Cammalleri, Frolov, among others

The Blues may be sellers..depending on the next week. Interesting name here would be Jackman..

At this point, I just want to see this team improve..Nonis has to get something done. Either shore up the defense (which can't seem to withstand the system), or add scorers to score their way out of this funk. Or better, both

Sell, sell, sell.

I want to see Nonis trade Naslund, Morrison, Cooke and Miller for serious, young help (players, prospects, draft picks, whatever) that will make this team better next year. If he happens to get them intto the 6th, 7th or 8th spot this year, bully for him. But don't waste another year in vain.

To Anaheim - Naslund, 1st pick
To Vancouver - Marchant, Ryan, 1st pick (Edm)

To Detroit - Morrison, Miller
To Vancouver - Cleary, Lilja, 6th pick

To Pittsburgh - Bourdon
To Vancouver - Sydor, 2nd pick

To Montreal - Cooke
To Vancouver - Chipchura, 4th pick

And what the hell, sign Brunnstrum if you can...I suppose it can't hurt.

And who knows? Maybe they get lucky, Tampa ends up with the first overall pick, Feaster takes Schneider and the Oiler pick for the first overall pick, and the Canucks get Stamkos.

[AtLossForWords]

I wouldn't mind Brunnstrom coming here next season. If he does turn out to be like Daniel Alfredsson, I can't think of a better threat on the right side of the Sedins. The Canucks have had success turning Swedes into good players like Naslund, The Sedins, Ohlund, and Edler. He would most likely be well developed by them.

I don't like the most of those deals Gord. I would want more for Markus Naslund. He'll more than likely score 30 or 35 goals this season, and subtracting scoring from this team will not help it. Todd Marchant is too much like what we already have on this team.

I would not trade Bourdon for a guy who is in the stage of his career where he is just about washed up. The pick is nice, but Bourdon will contribute more to this team than Sydor or the second round pick will.

Cooke for Chipchura would be a decent deal for this team, but I'd rather try to send some of our extra sandpaper to a team that has some scoring to spare. Cooke and Ritchie to Detroit for Hudler could be a deal that would play out quite nicely for this team. Actually if Detroit would consider parting with either Hudler or Filpulla I would send them Cooke, Ritchie, and a pick if that is what it took to get the deal done.

[TimmyTabasco]

Agreed with Lossy..don't like those deals. Any deal with the wings would have to include Kronwall, and or Holmstrom

On Brunstrom, Nonis was recently in Sweden..and wasn't impressed. But then again, he could have had a bad game

[gordphish]

I wouldn't mind Brunnstrom coming here next season. If he does turn out to be like Daniel Alfredsson, I can't think of a better threat on the right side of the Sedins. The Canucks have had success turning Swedes into good players like Naslund, The Sedins, Ohlund, and Edler. He would most likely be well developed by them.

I don't like the most of those deals Gord. I would want more for Markus Naslund. He'll more than likely score 30 or 35 goals this season, and subtracting scoring from this team will not help it. Todd Marchant is too much like what we already have on this team.

I would not trade Bourdon for a guy who is in the stage of his career where he is just about washed up. The pick is nice, but Bourdon will contribute more to this team than Sydor or the second round pick will.

Cooke for Chipchura would be a decent deal for this team, but I'd rather try to send some of our extra sandpaper to a team that has some scoring to spare. Cooke and Ritchie to Detroit for Hudler could be a deal that would play out quite nicely for this team. Actually if Detroit would consider parting with either Hudler or Filpulla I would send them Cooke, Ritchie, and a pick if that is what it took to get the deal done.

Yeah, but you're still thinking about what they can do this year. That is in fact a hell of a deal for Naslund. Ryan and a top 5 draft pick? C'mon...

These deals are made for next year. Marchant would be a pure a salary dump for the Ducks...I'd actually put him on waivers once I acquired him. With those deals, it would free up just enough coin to go looking for a free agent centre in the summer. Of course, I'd also buy out Sami Salo.

[AtLossForWords]

Agreed with Lossy..don't like those deals. Any deal with the wings would have to include Kronwall, and or Holmstrom

On Brunstrom, Nonis was recently in Sweden..and wasn't impressed. But then again, he could have had a bad game

Maybe he was having a study hangover like when Burke saw the Sedins. ;)

Like I said Gordo, I like the idea of having a top five draft pick. However I just don't think Ryan is enough for Naslund. The rental price is higher now, and the Canucks could get better value elsewhere.

Bobby Ryan could be another bust the size of Taylor Pyatt before he came to Vancouver, neither him or Drew Miller have had success on the scoresheet this season. They may just need more time, but I wouldn't pass off Naslund for a so-so prospect.

I think their best deal is trying to trade some sandpaper for scoring with Montreal or Detroit. Preferably Detroit, they have a lot of guys who could fit well in our system like Filpulla, Hudler, Samuelsson, and Franzen. If they would be willing to part with any of those guys to get tougher for the playoffs, Nonis should take that deal in a heartbeat.

[gordphish]

Maybe he was having a study hangover like when Burke saw the Sedins. ;)

Like I said Gordo, I like the idea of having a top five draft pick. However I just don't think Ryan is enough for Naslund. The rental price is higher now, and the Canucks could get better value elsewhere.

Bobby Ryan could be another bust the size of Taylor Pyatt before he came to Vancouver, neither him or Drew Miller have had success on the scoresheet this season. They may just need more time, but I wouldn't pass off Naslund for a so-so prospect.

I think their best deal is trying to trade some sandpaper for scoring with Montreal or Detroit. Preferably Detroit, they have a lot of guys who could fit well in our system like Filpulla, Hudler, Samuelsson, and Franzen. If they would be willing to part with any of those guys to get tougher for the playoffs, Nonis should take that deal in a heartbeat.

Ryan is a power forward. Typically they take longer to develop.

Just consider that lineup for a minute, assuming Brunnstrom is more Alfie and less Dopita...

Sedin / Sedin / Brunnstrom
Cleary / Jaffrey / Raymond
Burrows / Kesler / Pyatt
Cowan / Marchant / Linden
Ritchie, Isbister, Brown, Chipchura

Bieksa / Mitchell
Ohlund / Edler
Sydor / Salo
Lilja, Krajicek, Weaver

Worse than what they have now? I'd argue that they would be better by virtue of being more balanced. And then add Ryan and the top 5 pick next year, and remember that the only prospect they moved was Bourdon. If they waive Marchant and either waive Salo or buy him out, they can make a serious offer to Langkow in the summer...

Sedin / Sedin / Brunnstrom
Ryan / Langkow / Raymond
Cleary / Kesler / Pyatt
Burrows / Chipchura / Cowan
Brown, the top 5 pick, Jaffrey

Bieksa / Mitchell
Ohlund / Edler
Lilja / Sydor
Krajicek

Luongo
Sanford, or reasonable facsimile

Now they've retooled, gotten a lot younger and cheaper, but are still able to compete.

And Timmy, why would you want Kronwall? Doesn't our D already spend enough time in sick bay for you?

And just one more idea I will add...TSN is saying that Jeff Carter will likely be who the Flyers move to make room for Forsberg because he is RFA next summer. Certainly a deal with the Flyers that would net us Carter and Upshall would be worth investigating, especially since the Flyers would not be looking to take on any salary...Cooke, Schneider and Bourdon and/or or our first pick?

[TimmyTabasco]

Poisson,

Sorry..still don't like that lineup. Langkow will want too much

BUT, I do like the idea of Jeff Carter. He'd fit very well with the team. That deal would be enticing..Upshall has potential, but will probably become a solid third liner

Also, Knuble would be interesting in a deal involving Carter..since he had success with Morrison overseas..

[AtLossForWords]

Knuble and Carter will cost you a lot. I think just getting Carter would cost Nonis more than he would prefer to spend.

Carter would be a very good fit for this organization. He'd fill our most immediate whole, a big second line center who can finish plays. Philly seems to be set at center, so you have to think they'd like to deal him anyways.

[TimmyTabasco]

Knuble and Carter will cost you a lot. I think just getting Carter would cost Nonis more than he would prefer to spend.

Carter would be a very good fit for this organization. He'd fill our most immediate whole, a big second line center who can finish plays. Philly seems to be set at center, so you have to think they'd like to deal him anyways.

Yeah, both solid points

Carter and Upshall would be a solid deal..but who would you want to give up?

BTW..

Bergeron and Kobasew..now thats a trade that would really help this team. But, Bergeron is injured...

[gordphish]

Yeah, both solid points

Carter and Upshall would be a solid deal..but who would you want to give up?

BTW..

Bergeron and Kobasew..now thats a trade that would really help this team. But, Bergeron is injured...

The problem is this...

If the Leafs demand Kesler, Bourdon, Schneider and a first round pick for Sundin, what do the Flyers demand for Carter and Upshall? They may not want to take on any significant salary to make room for Forsberg, but that doesn't mean they are going to hand Carter away for nothing.

You won't get either of those deals done without moving Edler. Were I Philly, I'd want at least Kesler, Edler, Schneider and a first rounder for Carter and Upshall. But the smart thing for Philly to do if they do land Forsberg is find a way to dump Kapanen and take your chances with Carter in the summer. If someone signs him to an offer sheet you can't afford, you at least get a whack of draft picks for him. And if Forsberg blows out his ankle and goes back home, you don't lose Carter at all.

And I wouldn't touch that Boston deal right now. Bergeron is still out with a concussion; his career may well be over. And besides, I don't think the Bruins will move Kobasew, but if they did and I were them, I'd be looking for a number one goalie.

[rustybadcock]

I've been quiet for a while now.

I like Jeff Carter but I am not convinced he would solve our immediate problems.

Bergeron. No comment.

I think it's time to make some moves but I also think its time to ice an experienced line up. Last nights embarrassment had Jaffrey as the second line center :rolleyes: - he's not ready for that and I have my doubts he'll ever be a second line guy. Both Shannon and Raymond in the same line up...:slant: Could we get smaller? I like these players, don't get me wrong but eventually one must face up to the fact that one apprentice can help a shops work load but 6! (Shannon, Raymond, Jaffrey, McIver, Bourdon and Edler) Normally the leadership could take such inexperience unfortunately we're flawed in that department too. I am also concerned that people like Kesler and Weaver are in roles they're not ready for. Kesler is simply too inconsistent at this point in his development to be counted on like he is. I am sure some of you know I've been critical of him in recent posts but honestly, how much more development does a kid need before he's your go to guy in situations like this? If someone is asking for Kesler I'd be listening....I am not saying I'd do it, I am saying he's far from my protected list. Far as I am concerned Edler has shown already why he's on my no trade list and how long has he played on this team? Edler is special, Kesler is "just" good and if he was better than that he wouldn't be missing this opportunity to show the hockey world otherwise.

The thing that is concerning me the most here is they look lost as a group. No one looks like they're on the same page. There's no unity. They don't look like a team and during last nights anthems you could see it in their faces. They didn't look good at all...

Can bringing in other players change this....? Yes, people of Sundin's caliber but the facts of that matter are clear. Sundin in no way wants out of Toronto and he will garner much of what we have....But after that, who's really available that could make an immediate impact? Foppa, that's who - and at this point I think Nonis being the winner of the Foppastakes is what will save his arse cause I am thinking if this team misses the playoffs....ownership will have no choice but to make changes here.

On a slightly different subject. Does anyone know the arrival times of Mitchell, Bieksa, Miller and Morrison? From what I understand Mo's pretty well done for the season but maybe one of you have heard differently.

I fear the biggest hurdle will be that the boys will just not have enough to hold off the wolf until the guys get back into the line up.

I also feel a few people could use a trip to the press box. Cooke, Kesler and Ritchie all need a wake up call IMO. And why not really, at one point last night there was an entire line of Moose players on the ice....:no:

I also don't like how Linden is being utilized. And gordo, keep it shut on Linden please, now is not the day for your opinions on him..(;) :D ) I am upset...:laughing: ;) Linden has been shoved off into obscurity while Shannon Raymond and Jaffrey rule the day. Sorry but when the sheyat hits the fan I want experience veterans to guild my boat to better waters. Some people, the media and the coaching staff make Linden out to be this one legged liability where in fact every winning team must have a warhorse who plain and simply.... knows what to do next. That's the key to this mess. Where do you start and where do you finish in a minute by minute basis. And there should be no reason he can't keep up, this guy rode a bike up a mountain side all last summer. He's in shape....Linden needs to be the second line guy or at the very least he needs to be tried in this role. I mean if V thinks Jarrrey should get a shot on the second line.....well, you get my point.

Better leadership.

This has ugly smeared from one end of the train wreck to the other....:(

RB

[AtLossForWords]

I think it's the amount of Moose players on the blueline that are causing this recent downturn more than anything else.

When you have streaks of games where Ohlund, Salo, Krajicek, Mitchell, Miller, and Bieksa are calling in sick, you're going to suffer.

When Mitchell went down, we became a defensive team with no shutdown guys.

When you can't score or play defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, you're going down to the bottom of the conference.

[gordphish]

I think it's the amount of Moose players on the blueline that are causing this recent downturn more than anything else.

When you have streaks of games where Ohlund, Salo, Krajicek, Mitchell, Miller, and Bieksa are calling in sick, you're going to suffer.

When Mitchell went down, we became a defensive team with no shutdown guys.

When you can't score or play defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, you're going down to the bottom of the conference.

And this is something that needs to be fixed from now until the start of next season, because it isn't bad luck or a fluke. It's the third season in a row that their fate has been decided by the inability of the defense to stay healthy. The hard realities are that Bieksa is likely too small to play his style 25 minutes a game, Salo is the most injury prone player in the league, Ohlund is simply wearing down and Mitchell will also face a host of injuries because of the style he plays and how much he plays. I think we have yet another situation on the blueline where guys are being to asked to play roles that they aren't suited for. They are a team built from the goaltender out that doesn't have a true number one defenseman.

This team deals with the most demanding travel schedule in hockey, and that is only going to get worse now that the NHL has decided to go back to a schedule that sees every team play eachother at least once a year. It might be a good idea for Nonis to build a defense with that in mind. What do you look for? Size yes, but most importantly, efficiency with the puck. They have to have a defense that can move the puck quickly out of their end to limit the amount of time they spend chasing the other team in their own end or being subjected to relentless forechecking.

Nonis cannot go into next season with the same group of defensemen or he leaves himself open to the same injury problems every year. And that is an intensely frustrating place to be at with this team right now, because they should be focussed on improving the offense.

I've said this many times before...being a GM is like being a shark...stop moving forward and you're dead in the water. After Nonis acquired Luongo and signed Mitchell, he stopped moving forward, and now this team is once again sliding inexorably backwards.

[AtLossForWords]

Gordo when it comes to our injury problems, I wonder if it is as much coaching as it is who the personel is.

Ohlund and Miller have been big minute men throughout their careers. Each of them made their way in this league spending over twenty minutes a night on the ice. Miller may have to slow down now, but I don't understand that if you know you have an injury prone defense, why don't you split up the minutes more.

What if you had Ohlund and Edler playing around twenty a game, with Mitchell around fifteen or a little less with Aaron Miller, and then Salo and Krajicek bumping in around ten.

Now a hockey game never takes place in a perfect rink, but with your injury problems, it could very well be that guys are playing too many minutes a game or play too many games in a row.

We talked alot about our depth at defense when we realized how

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Bieksa
Salo Krajicek
Weaver Miller
Bourdon

is.

Now I'm not suggesting this team carry nine defensemen when healthy, but with that many guys you can give someone like Mitchell or Salo a night off on a rough road trip.

If this team is in situations now where they can't manage minutes to an ideal, then they do need to make changes on the blueline. However these guys don't need to be stellar additions. Just some rough and tumble guys that can log the minutes when you need them.

Assume Ohlund, Mitchell, Edler, and Bieksa are your top four and you somehow move Salo for a pick.

If Bourdon continues to devellop and log NHL minutes you can have him and Krajicek round out your top six defenders.

With Weaver you have a solid number seven, but this team really does need to carry an eigth guy. A guy who can move the puck effectively or play tough in front of the net wouldn't be a bad idea. Minnesota uses a talent like Kurtis Foster as a extra defenseman, they manage the minutes of other key guys like Jonsson, Nummelin, and Burns, and low and behold they stay healthy for the most part especially amongst their depth guys.

Maybe you won't be able to play Mitchell and Bieksa against Iginla every shift, but you can have that matchup a lot, and even then you still have Ohlund and Edler to stand him up when they're out there with him.

If this team were to ditch a top dollar defender and replace him with just a guy who logs minutes, they might be able to add a couple scoring fowards to their lineup and then we'll have a healthy blueline along with a top six that scores and we'll be happy in each area of the ice.

[gordphish]

Gordo when it comes to our injury problems, I wonder if it is as much coaching as it is who the personel is.

Ohlund and Miller have been big minute men throughout their careers. Each of them made their way in this league spending over twenty minutes a night on the ice. Miller may have to slow down now, but I don't understand that if you know you have an injury prone defense, why don't you split up the minutes more.

What if you had Ohlund and Edler playing around twenty a game, with Mitchell around fifteen or a little less with Aaron Miller, and then Salo and Krajicek bumping in around ten.

Now a hockey game never takes place in a perfect rink, but with your injury problems, it could very well be that guys are playing too many minutes a game or play too many games in a row.

We talked alot about our depth at defense when we realized how

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Bieksa
Salo Krajicek
Weaver Miller
Bourdon

is.

Now I'm not suggesting this team carry nine defensemen when healthy, but with that many guys you can give someone like Mitchell or Salo a night off on a rough road trip.

If this team is in situations now where they can't manage minutes to an ideal, then they do need to make changes on the blueline. However these guys don't need to be stellar additions. Just some rough and tumble guys that can log the minutes when you need them.

Assume Ohlund, Mitchell, Edler, and Bieksa are your top four and you somehow move Salo for a pick.

If Bourdon continues to devellop and log NHL minutes you can have him and Krajicek round out your top six defenders.

With Weaver you have a solid number seven, but this team really does need to carry an eigth guy. A guy who can move the puck effectively or play tough in front of the net wouldn't be a bad idea. Minnesota uses a talent like Kurtis Foster as a extra defenseman, they manage the minutes of other key guys like Jonsson, Nummelin, and Burns, and low and behold they stay healthy for the most part especially amongst their depth guys.

Maybe you won't be able to play Mitchell and Bieksa against Iginla every shift, but you can have that matchup a lot, and even then you still have Ohlund and Edler to stand him up when they're out there with him.

If this team were to ditch a top dollar defender and replace him with just a guy who logs minutes, they might be able to add a couple scoring fowards to their lineup and then we'll have a healthy blueline along with a top six that scores and we'll be happy in each area of the ice.

Don't buy it. In Crow's last year, they were just as riddled with injuries on the blueline as they have been with Vigneault behind the bench.

I think a large part of their problem can be solved with finding a way to get rid of Salo. He's always hurt, and it's always forcing the other guys to take on more minutes to compensate.

Ohlund has been able to handle the big minutes in the past, but I have two concerns there. One, he's not getting any younger. Two, he's not a bonafide number one blueliner. He just doesn't put up the numbers on offense, and isn't a stellar shutdown guy like Mitchell.

Mitchell clearly wears down as the season progesses, so it would be a good idea to shave minutes off of his icetime. I would rather they weren't so concerned about shutting down the other team's big guns every minute of every game and became more selective in that process. Focus on shutting them down at key times during the game, or let Mitchell worry about it after the team gets a lead.

Bieksa, I know the achilles injury was a fluke...it seems to be the year of the wayward skate injuries. But I still have reservations about how well he can hold up to big minutes while playing his style with his size. Perhaps a 'Makita' intervention is needed here...convince Kevin that he is much more valuable on the ice than off it, and get him to tone down his aggressive play and focus more on puck movement and offense.

Edler may become their number one guy...he's big, mobile and smart. I just hope they don't convince him to settle for being another Ohlund when he has all the tools to be in Lidstrom's class.

Krajicek, I just don't see him getting any better. Maybe they have to stop telling this guy not to worry about offense. I know they've really tried to work on his positioning, but he's an offensive blueliner. Take the leash off and let him go, get his confidence up. These injuries of his could be a fluke; then again, he could be another Salo in the making.

Miller I think has done an admirable job considering his abilities and what he's been asked to do this season. I never saw him as a guy that you'd call on to jump up in the rotation for injuries...I see him as the steadying force on the third pairing, making the transition easy for the 7th and 8th guys when they need to play.

Weaver, he's done his job. He's the 7th man in this group, and like Miller, has been asked to do way more than he should have to.

Bourdon, what can you say...another first round bust, I guess. He is still way too hesitant out there and his feet are too busy. He overcomplicates things for himself by overthinking and second guessing. Maybe not unusual for a rookie, but it's been a year and a half since we saw the same version of him, with lillte improvement.

McIver. Love his heart and his willingness to take on anybody. Don't like his hockey sense at all.

All in all, I know it's easier said than done to go out and find a top defender, but that's what they lack right now. Maybe Edler gets there, maybe not. But they need that top guy that can eat up big minutes and quarterback the powerplay so that everyone else on the blueline can go back to doing what they do best and the minutes their bodies can handle.

Maybe Nonis has to satrt giving some serious thought to going after Brian Campbell?

[AtLossForWords]

Don't buy it. In Crow's last year, they were just as riddled with injuries on the blueline as they have been with Vigneault behind the bench.

I think a large part of their problem can be solved with finding a way to get rid of Salo. He's always hurt, and it's always forcing the other guys to take on more minutes to compensate.

Ohlund has been able to handle the big minutes in the past, but I have two concerns there. One, he's not getting any younger. Two, he's not a bonafide number one blueliner. He just doesn't put up the numbers on offense, and isn't a stellar shutdown guy like Mitchell.

Mitchell clearly wears down as the season progesses, so it would be a good idea to shave minutes off of his icetime. I would rather they weren't so concerned about shutting down the other team's big guns every minute of every game and became more selective in that process. Focus on shutting them down at key times during the game, or let Mitchell worry about it after the team gets a lead.

Bieksa, I know the achilles injury was a fluke...it seems to be the year of the wayward skate injuries. But I still have reservations about how well he can hold up to big minutes while playing his style with his size. Perhaps a 'Makita' intervention is needed here...convince Kevin that he is much more valuable on the ice than off it, and get him to tone down his aggressive play and focus more on puck movement and offense.

Edler may become their number one guy...he's big, mobile and smart. I just hope they don't convince him to settle for being another Ohlund when he has all the tools to be in Lidstrom's class.

Krajicek, I just don't see him getting any better. Maybe they have to stop telling this guy not to worry about offense. I know they've really tried to work on his positioning, but he's an offensive blueliner. Take the leash off and let him go, get his confidence up. These injuries of his could be a fluke; then again, he could be another Salo in the making.

Miller I think has done an admirable job considering his abilities and what he's been asked to do this season. I never saw him as a guy that you'd call on to jump up in the rotation for injuries...I see him as the steadying force on the third pairing, making the transition easy for the 7th and 8th guys when they need to play.

Weaver, he's done his job. He's the 7th man in this group, and like Miller, has been asked to do way more than he should have to.

Bourdon, what can you say...another first round bust, I guess. He is still way too hesitant out there and his feet are too busy. He overcomplicates things for himself by overthinking and second guessing. Maybe not unusual for a rookie, but it's been a year and a half since we saw the same version of him, with lillte improvement.

McIver. Love his heart and his willingness to take on anybody. Don't like his hockey sense at all.

All in all, I know it's easier said than done to go out and find a top defender, but that's what they lack right now. Maybe Edler gets there, maybe not. But they need that top guy that can eat up big minutes and quarterback the powerplay so that everyone else on the blueline can go back to doing what they do best and the minutes their bodies can handle.

Maybe Nonis has to satrt giving some serious thought to going after Brian Campbell?

Ohlund's an elite defenseman. He's not a franchise blueliner like Niedermayer or Lidstrom, but he's a steadying force on the ice, and make good decisions with and without the puck, offensively and defensively. I look at the way this team plays without Ohlund on the back end and I don't know whether I'm sick because of alcohol by volume or the first pass. A lot of teams would love to drop Ohlund on their first pairing. I'm really happy we hung on to him.

It's the match game Vigneault plays that wears down Mitchell Gord. He wants Mitchell out there for every penalty kill, every shift against a guy like Iginla, Nash, or Thornton and having to take on those guys will wear you down. That's part of what makes an elite power forward so valueable, is that by the end of the game, he's going to wear down your best shutdown guy before you get to him. Mitchell isn't going to get a guy like Thornton or Iginla off their game by hitting them a couple times a shift. It takes a **** like Burrows to do something nasty. If Mitchell took a breather everyonce in awhile and didn't match a power forwards twenty minutes, he'd be more durable.

Bieksa didn't spend much time on the IR last season as much as he ran out of gas. Perhaps the long NHL season hurt him more than most of us think. When you're playing shorter seasons in the "A" a full season in the NHL can wear you down first time through. Is it a style problem or a transition to the big show that took Bieksa out of the "impact player" category at the end of last season.

Agreed on Edler. He's got the hockey smarts and that's what it takes to be in Lidstrom's class. Edler hasn't put up the points that Bieksa did last year, so that makes me wonder why he's cut out to be a Lidstrom. Bieksa overproduces for his hockey smarts, Edler underproduces for his hockey smarts.

I honestly don't think Krajicek has the hands for the offense you want out of him Gord. He can be a solid player who can score maybe twenty points a season if he gets PP minutes, but I just don't see many of his shots hitting the net. It's not at accurate shot like Edler's or a heavy shot like Salo's. It's just an average shot. You could put Matt Cooke as your PP quarterback and get the same shot from the point as you do with Krajicek.

Miller's definately been asked to do too much. He's a depth guy at this stage in his career, and he's exposed when he's on the PK and against the other team's top guy for too long. He's built for the old NHL, slow rugged, and no chance to clear the puck with a first pass.

In order for Nonis to make a pitch for a guy like Campbell who would really solidify our blueline, he needs to find a taker for Salo and rid himself of that salary.

If Detroit would take Cooke, Salo, and a prospect for any three of those great young players named Hudler, Samuelsson, and Filpulla. This team would be looking very solid for next season. Imagine a shooter like Mikael Samuelsson as the triggerman for the Sedins. His shot would take their game to a new level.

This team needs to find more youth to fill depth positions. They put millions into third and fourth line guys like Cooke and Ritchie, but if you could count on young guys like Hansen and Burrows filling those spots, you've got a lot more money to put into your scoring forwards.

Yeah a veterean or two like a Kris Draper or a Sami Pahlsson goes a long way, but Matt Cooke is nowhere near the class of those two guys.

[gordphish]

Ohlund's an elite defenseman. He's not a franchise blueliner like Niedermayer or Lidstrom, but he's a steadying force on the ice, and make good decisions with and without the puck, offensively and defensively. I look at the way this team plays without Ohlund on the back end and I don't know whether I'm sick because of alcohol by volume or the first pass. A lot of teams would love to drop Ohlund on their first pairing. I'm really happy we hung on to him.

It's the match game Vigneault plays that wears down Mitchell Gord. He wants Mitchell out there for every penalty kill, every shift against a guy like Iginla, Nash, or Thornton and having to take on those guys will wear you down. That's part of what makes an elite power forward so valueable, is that by the end of the game, he's going to wear down your best shutdown guy before you get to him. Mitchell isn't going to get a guy like Thornton or Iginla off their game by hitting them a couple times a shift. It takes a **** like Burrows to do something nasty. If Mitchell took a breather everyonce in awhile and didn't match a power forwards twenty minutes, he'd be more durable.

Bieksa didn't spend much time on the IR last season as much as he ran out of gas. Perhaps the long NHL season hurt him more than most of us think. When you're playing shorter seasons in the "A" a full season in the NHL can wear you down first time through. Is it a style problem or a transition to the big show that took Bieksa out of the "impact player" category at the end of last season.

Agreed on Edler. He's got the hockey smarts and that's what it takes to be in Lidstrom's class. Edler hasn't put up the points that Bieksa did last year, so that makes me wonder why he's cut out to be a Lidstrom. Bieksa overproduces for his hockey smarts, Edler underproduces for his hockey smarts.

I honestly don't think Krajicek has the hands for the offense you want out of him Gord. He can be a solid player who can score maybe twenty points a season if he gets PP minutes, but I just don't see many of his shots hitting the net. It's not at accurate shot like Edler's or a heavy shot like Salo's. It's just an average shot. You could put Matt Cooke as your PP quarterback and get the same shot from the point as you do with Krajicek.

Miller's definately been asked to do too much. He's a depth guy at this stage in his career, and he's exposed when he's on the PK and against the other team's top guy for too long. He's built for the old NHL, slow rugged, and no chance to clear the puck with a first pass.

In order for Nonis to make a pitch for a guy like Campbell who would really solidify our blueline, he needs to find a taker for Salo and rid himself of that salary.

If Detroit would take Cooke, Salo, and a prospect for any three of those great young players named Hudler, Samuelsson, and Filpulla. This team would be looking very solid for next season. Imagine a shooter like Mikael Samuelsson as the triggerman for the Sedins. His shot would take their game to a new level.

This team needs to find more youth to fill depth positions. They put millions into third and fourth line guys like Cooke and Ritchie, but if you could count on young guys like Hansen and Burrows filling those spots, you've got a lot more money to put into your scoring forwards.

Yeah a veterean or two like a Kris Draper or a Sami Pahlsson goes a long way, but Matt Cooke is nowhere near the class of those two guys.

Just wait with Edler in terms of offense. He put up 60+ points in his only year in Kelowna, and that was for the most stifling system in the CHL.

I think Krajicek has a better shot than you give him credit for...he just doesn't use it that much.

You make a good point about Bieksa and the transition, but we'll see.

Ohlund is a number two guy IMO. Solid enough, but just not elite.

I think we see eye to eye on Mitchell and Miller.

I still don't see ANYONE taking Salo, even for a 7th round pick. This guy has 10 million and three years left on his contract. Knowing he only plays half the year, would you trade for a guy like that? If he was a rental UFA, sure, maybe...

About getting youth, I agree completely. That's why I've taken the opinion that they should become sellers now.

[TimmyTabasco]

Why take shots at Miller? I understand your not a fan, but he's been more reliable than many. I like him


Yeah, you have to get youth..but at what cost? You have to be careful. Too many moves and the team wont be able to compete

And, you either get a PP guy like Campbell..or one elite top six forward, and one above average. So, what is it you want? You can't have both

[gordphish]

Why take shots at Miller? I understand your not a fan, but he's been more reliable than many. I like him

I'm not taking shots at him. I am a fan of his, you should know that.


Yeah, you have to get youth..but at what cost? You have to be careful. Too many moves and the team wont be able to compete

Sacrificing their ability to compete this year in order to get better for the next five years is the smartest thing they can do right now. Why piss another season away in vain on false hope? Besides, they are going to need money to extend the twins and Ohlund.

And, you either get a PP guy like Campbell..or one elite top six forward, and one above average. So, what is it you want? You can't have both

At the deadline, neither. Sell now, buy in the summer. If they can gather in a group of solid young scorers up front now, then they could go after Campbell in the summer. It's still unlikely with how little cap space they'll have even with Naslund, Morrison and Cooke off the books, but whatever.

It's also time for Nonis to go to Linden and see if he'd like to be moved to a contender so that he can have one last shot at getting his name on the Cup.

[TimmyTabasco]

Poisson,

Re: Miller..that was directed at Lossy ;)

Yeah, but how much do they sacrifice? Luongo won't want to be in another rebuilding process..so it has to be a fast turn around

I think this team will bring in quality second tier players, but will have a hard time with the elite

Or, they can try for younger up and coming elite players

Either way, they must improve. This team has been too ordinary, too inconsistent, and so far from the team of last season

[gordphish]

Poisson,

Re: Miller..that was directed at Lossy ;)

Yeah, but how much do they sacrifice? Luongo won't want to be in another rebuilding process..so it has to be a fast turn around

I think this team will bring in quality second tier players, but will have a hard time with the elite

Or, they can try for younger up and coming elite players

Either way, they must improve. This team has been too ordinary, too inconsistent, and so far from the team of last season

Well, a rebuild or retool doesn't have to mean missing the playoffs for three to five years. With the Sedins, Kesler, Pyatt, Burrows, Mitchell, Ohlund, Edler, Bieksa and Luongo they still have a pretty good core if the rearming is done right. The best example I could give you would be what the Ducks did between making the Finals in 03 and getting back to the Final 4 in 06.

I think Luongo is a smart person. As long as the young talent brought in were the right pieces, and no weakness was left unaddressed, he'd consider staying. I'd think the last thing he'd want to see is this team continuing to spin its wheels with the same veteren core that hasn't won anything this decade.

[TimmyTabasco]

Alright, so Carter would be ideal..Jeff not Anson

But, what about these guys..

-Bernier..powerforward with the Sharks
-Kotalik..winger with the Sabres

Both seem inconsistent, but could be worth a look..especially Kotalik..since he could be had for cheap

[gordphish]

Alright, so Carter would be ideal..Jeff not Anson

But, what about these guys..

-Bernier..powerforward with the Sharks
-Kotalik..winger with the Sabres

Both seem inconsistent, but could be worth a look..especially Kotalik..since he could be had for cheap

Timmy, I think what they need right now is just what Vigneault said they needed at the end of last season...scoring prospects that come in and play at three to four times their entry level value.

Daniel / Henrik / Pyatt
Raymond / ??? / ???
Burrows / Kesler / ???
??? / ??? / Cowan

Edler / Ohlund
Bieksa / Mitchell
Salo / Krajieck
???

Luongo
???

That's what their lineup looks like going into July. They'll have 15 mil available initially, but take 5 mil off that and earmark it for Ohlund and the twins in the summer of 09. Consider that they'll stay at least 2 mil below the cap for injuriy call ups, and that gives them about 8 mil to use to fill in the blanks. If they want to bring in even a mid-level scorer that costs them around 3 to 5 mil, they'll have to fill the rest of their roster with 600 grand players, or they'll have to move Mitchell or Bieksa.

My feeling right now (even though I don't agree with it) is that the plan is this; Forsberg will sign in Vancouver for the remainder of this year and next, Naslund will resign for one year and Morrison will be allowed to walk as a UFA. I also get the feeling that Matt Cooke will be moved at the deadline, probably for a 2nd round pick, although I could see him being packaged with Schneider for a young player that is either signed for another year or two or is still RFA protected, e.g. Tuomo Ruutu. Guys like Miller, Sanford and Ritchie might be resigned for another year if the price is right, but I'd expect the rest of the holes for next year to be filled from within.

Daniel / Henrik / Pyatt
Naslund / Forsberg / Raymond
Burrows / Kesler / ???
Brown / Ritchie / Cowan

Edler / Ohlund
Bieksa / Mitchell
Salo / Krajicek
Bourdon

Luongo
Sanford

If Ritchie and Sanford are brought back at the same price and Forsberg and Naslund are signed on at 4 mil per each, that would put their salary next season at about 46.613 million. If the cap sits around 52, that would leave them about 3 million to fill in 2 or 3 forward spots and a spot for a veteren blueliner. They could get creative with Forsberg's salary and offer him less this year but more next year, thus giving them a bit more cap room. For example, the could pay him 1 million for the rest of this season and 5 million next season, bringing his cap hit down to 3 million and thereby giving Nonis a million more cap space.

Myself, I'm getting tired of this team spinning its wheels with this group. I think it is time they brought in a couple of top tier offensive prospects ala Getzlaf and Perry and so that the offense has a chance to carry them through when injuries hit or Luongo is off his game.

[TimmyTabasco]

Well, Forsberg won't be coming here..or anywhere..so scratch him

But, I agree that the team needs to obtain some youthful offensive flair

Do you think Bourdon could play a top six role next season?

He's doing alright, and seems to be getting more comfortable with experience..

[AtLossForWords]

Bourdon should take part in this club's top six next season and Salo or Bieksa should be moved to make room for a forward.

I don't know the salary numbers to a tee, but doesn't it seem like the Canucks have the most expensive blueline group in the league?

The only team that I could even think of as being that close is Anaheim, but they aren't paying Niedermayer for a full season. When Edler becomes an RFA, it'll be so damn expensive just to keep offer sheets away from him.

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Bourdon
Salo Krajicek
Weaver McIver

Is a solid defensive group and they can use their bottom two guys to step in when the injury bug hits without worry now. I would definately take the time to move a defenseman over the summer either for a forward or just to free up space for a forward.

I the Canucks could deal Bieksa for either a top six winger, up a couple cheap guys for the bottom six, they'll be able to ice a pretty solid team that isn't incredible anywhere, but capable everywhere.

Think of a deal that is the sort of trade that would send Bieksa to Washington for Pettinger and Gordon to shore up your bottom six after you hand Cooke, Ritchie, and Isbister their walking papers.

Then you target a UFA like Huselius or Erat for the Sedins for a solid top line or Langkow to play with Naslund and add more balanced scoring.

Sedin Sedin Pyatt
Naslund Langkow Raymond
Burrows Kesler Pettinger
Brown Gordon Cowan
Linden Jaffray Hansen

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Bourdon
Salo Krajicek
Weaver McIver

Luongo
-------

Could definately get the job done.

[gordphish]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=13419

Here is a good blog addressing the issues we are debating in this thread, if you care to check it out...

[gordphish]

Bourdon should take part in this club's top six next season and Salo or Bieksa should be moved to make room for a forward.

I don't know the salary numbers to a tee, but doesn't it seem like the Canucks have the most expensive blueline group in the league?

The only team that I could even think of as being that close is Anaheim, but they aren't paying Niedermayer for a full season. When Edler becomes an RFA, it'll be so damn expensive just to keep offer sheets away from him.

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Bourdon
Salo Krajicek
Weaver McIver

Is a solid defensive group and they can use their bottom two guys to step in when the injury bug hits without worry now. I would definately take the time to move a defenseman over the summer either for a forward or just to free up space for a forward.

I the Canucks could deal Bieksa for either a top six winger, up a couple cheap guys for the bottom six, they'll be able to ice a pretty solid team that isn't incredible anywhere, but capable everywhere.

Think of a deal that is the sort of trade that would send Bieksa to Washington for Pettinger and Gordon to shore up your bottom six after you hand Cooke, Ritchie, and Isbister their walking papers.

Then you target a UFA like Huselius or Erat for the Sedins for a solid top line or Langkow to play with Naslund and add more balanced scoring.

Sedin Sedin Pyatt
Naslund Langkow Raymond
Burrows Kesler Pettinger
Brown Gordon Cowan
Linden Jaffray Hansen

Ohlund Edler
Mitchell Bourdon
Salo Krajicek
Weaver McIver

Luongo
-------

Could definately get the job done.

Believe it or not, they are roughly in the middle of the pack, having just over 15 million committed to the blueline. Anaheim, Detroit and Toronto each top out at about 20 mil.

I'd like to think they could do better than that for Bieksa, Lossy. Say Jeff Carter for Bieksa and a draft pick, for example.

I really like the idea of adding Dan Cleary to the third line next summer if he is still UFA by then. I don't know what he is going to be looking for, but he made $675,000 this year. He has 20 goals and 20 assists so far this season and is a plus 23. Obviously his numbers would take a slight hit playing on the third line here, but I think he'd be a good fit with Kesler and Burrows. Heck, they might even be able to play him with Kesler and Pyatt and have a pretty decent second line there.

[TimmyTabasco]

Alright..so some people are talking about Ryder. He's improved his play, and could do well with the twins. Plus, he's a UFA at season's end..and could be had for cheap

However, reportedly(thru tsn) Calgary is offering Tanguay for Ryder and a pick
So, he could be outbid

Another rumour is that of Jokinen. Courtesy of The Fourth Period. Jokinen would be a solid pickup..but I'm not sold that they will again deal with the Canucks. Montador would be nice to include in any deal(or VanRyn..since he seems to have fallen out of favour)

Also, the Canucks have been reportedly interested in Satan/Nagy. Satan would be interesting(esp with the twins), and our own Matt Cooke has been plugging his name for awhile. But, he seems to be a bit of an enigma.
A big No thanks on Nagy...

Some have mentioned Prospal. But, I don't think he would fit. This guy only has success in Tampa Bay, and always has an off year after a good year. No thanks

Here are a few other ideas...feel free to fill in the blanks and discuss

Nashville
Erat
Fiddler

for
Van
??

This would provide Vancouver with a solid top six forward for the twins. He's an RFA, so they would have to sign him pretty soon. Also, Fiddler would be a good replacement for any of the departed bottom six..and he is decent on faceoffs. Yeah, he would have to give Bieksa a hug

Los Angeles
Frolov(or Camm)

for

Van
??

Carolina
Andrew Ladd

for

Vancouver
3rd round pick

This would be a bit like the Pyatt deal. Ladd has really struggled with the Canes, and could use a fresh start

Edmonton
Stoll

for

Vancouver
??

Sure, it would be a longshot.. But, he's solid on faceoffs..good on the PP..and gritty. Basically everything the Canucks need. Could do with a change of scenery

Columbus
Modin

for

Vancouver
2nd round pick

He's been injured this season, but recently has been playing alright. Could fit with the twins, or with Naslund. Plus, the Jackets are going nowhere

Phoenix
Vrbata
Reinprecht(or Fredrik Sjostrom)

for

Vancouver

??

Now, this totally depends on Phoenix..and how they play the next week. Check out Vrbata's bio..it totally fits what the Canucks need..for the twins. And, where was Nonis when this guy was traded? He was traded for Kevyn Adams! Anyway, he would fit like a glove. Reinprecht would be an alright second line center, versatile. He could be available due to the youth movement in Phoenix. Fredrik Sjostrom would also be appealing

Ny Islanders
Fedotenko

for

Vancouver
???

We've mentioned Fedotenko, and I think he would be worth a shot. Plus, he's a UFA..and would come cheap. You could also include either Hunter, or whomever

Chicago
Williams
Ruutu

for

Vancouver
???

Lossy seems pretty high on Williams. He could be alright for the PP, and a decent short term fix option. Ruutu has the potential to be a very good player. He was once called the Finnish Forsberg..

Last one, now..if the Canucks become sellers..they should ship Naslund to the Wings(purely as a rental)

Detroit
Filppula
Franzen

for

Vancouver
Naslund
2nd

Now, Naslund could return to the Canucks in the offseason, for a discount

So, what do you think? Yes..lots of proposals..but anyway..just thot to share that

[Nelson19777]

I don't really have much of an opinion on much of the first bunch of proposals, but, I do find your last one interesting.

I'm not really fond of "giving up", "becomming sellers" or whatever people want to call it, but if you could swing that kind of a deal for Naslund. I'd take it yesterday. I'm not sure Detroit would agree to that one.

BTW whatever happened to GONUCKS? Did we forget to invite him to the party? I miss the humor.

[gordphish]

Alright..so some people are talking about Ryder. He's improved his play, and could do well with the twins. Plus, he's a UFA at season's end..and could be had for cheap

However, reportedly(thru tsn) Calgary is offering Tanguay for Ryder and a pick
So, he could be outbid

Calgary seems to be looking to shake loose a first line centre with Tanguay. I think if Nonis can take advantage of Gainey dumping Ryder's salary to make room for Hossa, then I'd do it for Cooke.

Another rumour is that of Jokinen. Courtesy of The Fourth Period. Jokinen would be a solid pickup..but I'm not sold that they will again deal with the Canucks. Montador would be nice to include in any deal(or VanRyn..since he seems to have fallen out of favour)

That will cost them, big time, so I'm not holding my breathe. That's the deal where Calgary can outbid them.

Also, the Canucks have been reportedly interested in Satan/Nagy. Satan would be interesting(esp with the twins), and our own Matt Cooke has been plugging his name for awhile. But, he seems to be a bit of an enigma.
A big No thanks on Nagy...

No thanks on both.

Some have mentioned Prospal. But, I don't think he would fit. This guy only has success in Tampa Bay, and always has an off year after a good year. No thanks

Agreed

Here are a few other ideas...feel free to fill in the blanks and discuss

Nashville
Erat
Fiddler

for
Van
??

This is an interesting proposal because the Preds have the depth to make that deal. But do the Canucks? With lost of cap room, the Preds go into the deadline as big time buyers and will look to address immediate needs first. They are likely looking for a scoring left winger and some veteren help on defense, so I don't see what the Canucks would have to offer Nashville to make this deal. Besides, I see Fiddler as a third line centre at best, which we don't need.

Los Angeles
Frolov(or Camm)

for

Van
??

LA is likely looking for quality youth. Do you give up Kesler, Bieksa, Edler or Bourdon for either of those players? Keep in mind that it was Cammalleri's size and inability physically endure the NHL that caused so many teams to give him a pass at the draft to begin with. If I'm talking to LA, I'm talking Kopitar and no one else.

Carolina
Andrew Ladd

for

Vancouver
3rd round pick

For a third round pick, why not? It's a typical Nonis reclamation project, so it wouldn't surprise me. Taking another look at this, and I say no thanks. Ladd's cap hit is actually 1.8 mil.

Edmonton
Stoll

for

Vancouver
??

Big time long shot. I do not see the Oilers trading Stoll to their biggest divisional rival right now. But hey, if Nonis offered Lowe Kesler, it would get done in a heartbeat. Not happening.

Columbus
Modin

for

Vancouver
2nd round pick

Hrmm...I'm getting tired of watching them squander second round picks on iffy rentals. I think Modin has benefited big time from Lecavalier and Sundin in the past. Maybe he does well with the twins. If the Canucks were in control of the division right now, I might make that deal, but as things stand, I'll pass.

Phoenix
Vrbata
Reinprecht(or Fredrik Sjostrom)

for

Vancouver

??

Again, you'd have to part with good young talent to make this deal. Would you give up guys like Kesler, Burrows and Bourdon for those two? I wouldn't. It's be a sideways deal at best.

Ny Islanders
Fedotenko

for

Vancouver
???

I have no idea what the Isles would be looking for, but if they'd be willing to swap UFAs and take Cooke plus maybe a 5th or 6th rounder, then sure.

Chicago
Williams
Ruutu

for

Vancouver
???

I think Ruutu is a player that would fit right in here, and Williams is worth a shot, but AGAIN...at what price? Do they get any better by swapping Kesler and Edler for those two? I MIGHT consider trading Bieksa alone for those two, but I'd see what else I could get for Bieksa first.

Last one, now..if the Canucks become sellers..they should ship Naslund to the Wings(purely as a rental)

Detroit
Filppula
Franzen

for

Vancouver
Naslund
2nd

If you are going to move Naslund at this point, why would you do it for two third line players? I prefer Naslund with either Linden or Cooke and our first pick to the Ducks for Ryan, Mikkelson and the Ducks first pick.

So, what do you think? Yes..lots of proposals..but anyway..just thot to share that

I've been hearing Brunette's name with the Canucks recently...I could see Nonis making a hockey deal there for Brunette and Liles.

[igotregistered]

At the deadline:

To Philly - Morrison, Raymond
To Vancouver - Carter, 08 2nd Round Pick

In the summer:

Resign Naslund at around 3.5 mil (may be old enough for a lower base with easy incentives that don't count against the cap)

Sign Hossa

Daniel / Henrik / Hossa
Naslund / Carter / Pyatt
Cooke / Kesler / Hansen
Burrows / Ritchie / Cowan

D and goaltending as is.

Bieksa would remain the bait to dangle should the team need anything else. Recognizing the need for a PP quarterback that Lossy addressed with Campbell, I've liked the look of Edler, Bourdon and, before his injury, Krajicek so far this season. Their PP has looked especially sharp since Salo's nose was shattered and Vigneault has had Edler and Bourdon out there together. I sincerely believe that the need to bolster this area will come from within the organization with what they already have.

Where Bieksa could be moved in this scenario is an effort to bolster the scoring from the third line should Hansen develop too slowly. Should a need arise in this area, I would consider moving Bieksa to Montreal in a deal for Ryder, but I'd want a defenseman in the deal as well. Vancouver's D is just too injury prone for them to be to afford spreading the depth on the blueline too thin in attempts to strengthen other areas. I'd be perfectly happy if they kept Bieksa and ditched Salo at the first opportunity.

Another player worth mentioning at this point, if he is UFA next summer (which I think he is) and if hehits the open market, is Jason Spezza. But he is going to be the best of a very thin group, and that will drive up his cost. If he should win the Cup and/or a Smythe Trophy along the way, it gets even worse. Think 8 mil per easy, closer to 10 million when the smoke from the bidding war settles. Sign him and there's no money to extend Luongo.


I take that trade, but there is no way Philly does it. They need a game breaking player. Daniel Briere is not the player. They need to get rid of him. Think anybody wants him?

[AtLossForWords]

Brunette and Liles would be good guys to have on this team. Brunette to fit with the Sedins can shovel home their garbage (that's all he does), and Liles might help this powerplay, but he's struggled offensively this season, however that might have something to do with Colorado having all their top guns out of the lineup except for Hejduk.

The question is what are you going to give up to Colorado. You'd have to give up Bieksa, because he's exactly what Colorado wants, but somehow I think they will want more than just Bieksa for those two. If they want Cooke and a pick, I'd make the deal.

A guy who has only fifteen points and is a minus five doesn't show me that he's contributing anything to my hockey team.

[gordphish]

I take that trade, but there is no way Philly does it. They need a game breaking player. Daniel Briere is not the player. They need to get rid of him. Think anybody wants him?

That was an old post...with the Canucks clinging desperately to a playoff spot and all but out of the divisional race, I don't want anything we have wasted on a deal for a player like Hossa or Sundin.

I agree, that at this point, Philly doesn't do that deal. I'd offer them Bieksa for Carter, though.

[gordphish]

Well, Forsberg won't be coming here..or anywhere..so scratch him

But, I agree that the team needs to obtain some youthful offensive flair

Do you think Bourdon could play a top six role next season?

He's doing alright, and seems to be getting more comfortable with experience..

Well, I think Lossy is right here in the sense that if they want to free up space to improve the offense by going outside the organization, then Bieksa is the guy that goes. That means Bourdon has to be in the top 6 next year, whether we like it or not.

Myself, I'm still not sold on him. But the injury to Krajicek should help a lot in answering that question. Nonis should know by the end of the season just exactly what they have in Bourdon. If he can crack the lineup next year, then I agree with Lossy. You pencil him in next to Mitchell in the second pairing and deal Bieksa for some scoring.

[gordphish]

Brunette and Liles would be good guys to have on this team. Brunette to fit with the Sedins can shovel home their garbage (that's all he does), and Liles might help this powerplay, but he's struggled offensively this season, however that might have something to do with Colorado having all their top guns out of the lineup except for Hejduk.

The question is what are you going to give up to Colorado. You'd have to give up Bieksa, because he's exactly what Colorado wants, but somehow I think they will want more than just Bieksa for those two. If they want Cooke and a pick, I'd make the deal.

A guy who has only fifteen points and is a minus five doesn't show me that he's contributing anything to my hockey team.

I'd think Bieksa and Cooke would do it. Brunette's numbers have obviously been inflated by Sakic over the last few years and the Avs get the better deal on the blueline by far.

[AtLossForWords]

I'd think Bieksa and Cooke would do it. Brunette's numbers have obviously been inflated by Sakic over the last few years and the Avs get the better deal on the blueline by far.

Brunette has 528 points in 767 games played. He spent a lot of years in places like Washington, Atlanta, and Minnesota which at the time were not very talented teams which wouldn't inflate a guys numbers.

Is he a point a game player, hell no, but for a journeyman goal scorer, he's not a bad pickup, and that is exactly what we are looking for.

[gordphish]

Brunette has 528 points in 767 games played. He spent a lot of years in places like Washington, Atlanta, and Minnesota which at the time were not very talented teams which wouldn't inflate a guys numbers.

Is he a point a game player, hell no, but for a journeyman goal scorer, he's not a bad pickup, and that is exactly what we are looking for.

The reason I say that is because he's having a terrible year without Sakic. He has just 12 goals and 38 points in 61 games this year.

I think he'd be an OK option for the either line, but I'd be VERY careful not to overpay for him.

In fact, I'd say Bieksa alone for those two would be a fair deal. Bieksa and Liles might be a wash offensively, but Bieksa brings that physical edge with him. And Bieksa is signed at a very reasonable price for the next few years, while both Brunette and Liles are UFA this summer.

Naw, this one falls under the same category as Timmy's proposal with the Hawks...shop Bieksa and see if something better pops loose. If I'm dealing Bieksa, I'm looking for a top tier offensive prospect along the lines of guys like Jeff Carter, Devon Setegouchi or Bobby Ryan.


Or how about this?

To NY Rangers - K. Bieksa
To Vancouver - B. Dubinsky, M. Malik

[KB in Kelowna]

That was an old post...with the Canucks clinging desperately to a playoff spot and all but out of the divisional race, I don't want anything we have wasted on a deal for a player like Hossa or Sundin.

I agree, that at this point, Philly doesn't do that deal. I'd offer them Bieksa for Carter, though.
Nice to know the newbies are reading the entire thread I guess.:shrug:

[AtLossForWords]

Repeated for emphasis?

Bieksa has a good value on the open market, he's exactly what teams want on the blueline now. The question is who is going to overpay for him if he's made available.

While someteams are looking to overpay for guys like Sundin, Hossa, Jokinen, and even for second tier guys like Ryder or Tanguay, you have to think the hot commodity of the NHL right now, the physical two way defenseman, would fetch more market value at the deadline for teams gearing up for the playoff rope-a-dope.

[gordphish]

Repeated for emphasis?

Bieksa has a good value on the open market, he's exactly what teams want on the blueline now. The question is who is going to overpay for him if he's made available.

While someteams are looking to overpay for guys like Sundin, Hossa, Jokinen, and even for second tier guys like Ryder or Tanguay, you have to think the hot commodity of the NHL right now, the physical two way defenseman, would fetch more market value at the deadline for teams gearing up for the playoff rope-a-dope.

Well, it is starting to get interesting, finally. Names are starting to hit the rumour mill that aren't pure rentals, e.g Richards (likey too big a contract for the Canucks to absorb, but would he ever be a nice fit with Mason Raymond). There are whispers of a big deal between the Pens and the Hawks involving Staal and T. Ruutu. Either player would be a good fit in Vancouver.

While I wouldn't rule out Bieksa getting moved, I think there are basically three players you can realistically look at the Canucks moving this deadline, and that's Cooke, Bourdon and Schneider. They can always add draft picks if the right deal was there, but those are three that are the most likely to be moved IMO.

After the way the last two weeks have gone for the Canucks, I do think Nonis will make at least one deal by Tuesday afternoon, maybe even as much as three, but I don't expect him to be in on any of bids for the big names floating around. I'm expecting someone like Ryder, Fedetenko, or Peca to the top 6, a guy like Scott Thornton to the bottom six, and if Bourdon is moved to snag any of those guys, a depth defender as well.

But in no way do I think Nonis should overpay this season. They still have a long ways to go what with the way their schedule breaks down in March. The last thing I want to see is Nonis give up Bourdon for a rental like Fedetenko, just to see them miss the playoffs.

On a side note, I noticed the Bruins put Chistov on waivers...not worth bumping Shannon at this point IMO, but given Nonis' track record, it wouldn't surprise me. Then again, I can't find any stats on him this year...is he even in North America right now?

Seems to be a lot of smoke around the Canucks and Tampa right now regarding Richards.

With Richards' salary, it's a moderately long shot, but remember, Tampa is only dealing him to make room to keep Boyle, so they won't be looking for salary in return. TSN's Draeger reports Tampa is looking for a defenseman in the deal, and Bieksa would be a perfect fit, both on the ice and on the payroll. And this would be the hockey deal Nonis has been looking for since the draft last year.

The key for me is if they can make the deal without having to give up Kesler.

Of course, this could just be a false rumour floated by Feaster to drive up the asking price from teams like Columbus, San Jose, Montreal and Nashville.

[TimmyTabasco]

Richards has the cup ring, the conn smyth..basically what the Canucks need. However, he also has that salary. Could the Canucks afford two 7 million players? I'm not sure..

I'm thinking Jokinen would be the better fit, especially in the NW division against rivals such as Calgary/Minny

Also, how are Filppula and Franzen third line players? Franzen is a two way forward, probably best suited for the 3rd line..capable of 20 goals and 40 points. Filppula is probably a second line player, probably a 20 goal, 60 point player

Not bad..

[AtLossForWords]

I think the Canucks can afford both Richards and Luongo, at least as long as the cap stays above fifty million.

If Nonis acquires Richards, he's going to see where he's going to have to cut spending.

Firstly he's going to have to cut on the bottom six. He's going to have to keep his checking line togethor at a reasonable prices maybe shelling out some reasonable dollars to Ryan Kesler, however he's going to have to build his fourth line from within his organization with guys like Brown, Jaffray, and Hansen and pass on signing guys like Byron Ritchie and Marc Chouinard for quite a bit of cash.

Depth on defense is important, and for the way this team is configured you're going to have to get guys back there who can score. Nonis is going to have to pay Edler to keep the offer sheets away from him. However a guy like Jarolav Modry, Marek Malik, or Brett Lebda will always hit the open market. Edler's eventually going to be your number one guy, and you need to find ways to keep Mitchell and Bieksa to round out your top four. Mattias Ohlund most likely doesn't want to go anywhere, and as long as you can afford him you keep him around, but rather than spending ridiculous amonts of money on guys like Aaron Miller to be depth defenders, use cheap guys like Weaver or build from your organization with guys like Nathan McIver and Taylor Ellington.

Finally you can't expect to keep around Taylor Pyatt forever. You're going to have to gamble on a guy cut from the same cloth as Pyatt or Anson Carter. The Canucks have been good at finding that extra cheap winger.

What you have to hope for is to keep pairs of forwards togethor and pay them what you can afford. Keep the Sedins togethor, keep Kesler and Burrows togethor, and if you get Brad Richards keep him togethor with Mason Raymond if the two work well togethor. Then fill those third spots on the lines with cheaper guys who will play their roles well.

The good GMs are going to be guys who sign their players to affordable contracts and build well from the draft. Feaster has shown both of those things to be his weakness. He kept his big three, but he couldn't count on his organization to fill the depth roles.

[KB in Kelowna]

So the trade deadline has passed and nothing big happened to inject offence into the Canuck line up. What happens between now and the draft/free agent season/opening of camp will be what is worth watching on the team building front. Look at who is offered a contract extension, more importantly look at who isn't. So far not a whiff of any deals brewing for any RFA's on the current roster(correct me if I am wrong).

I suspect Nonis will face pressure to blow up the roster. Luongo and the Sedin's may be safe, probably Willie Mitchell. Other than that they may need to part company with some of their players they are currently enamoured with, Kesler, Edler in order to bring in, via trade, the quality of impact player necessary to really make noise in the West.

I don't buy the just get into the playoffs and anything can happen rhetoric. They might match up well andcould steal a series from Detroit(depending on injury status in Motown) and some of the other opening rounds might be slufest leaving the victor bruised and battered, but the lack of scoring finish will bite them on the rear no matter how well Luongo plays.

[gordphish]

So the trade deadline has passed and nothing big happened to inject offence into the Canuck line up. What happens between now and the draft/free agent season/opening of camp will be what is worth watching on the team building front. Look at who is offered a contract extension, more importantly look at who isn't. So far not a whiff of any deals brewing for any RFA's on the current roster(correct me if I am wrong).

I suspect Nonis will face pressure to blow up the roster. Luongo and the Sedin's may be safe, probably Willie Mitchell. Other than that they may need to part company with some of their players they are currently enamoured with, Kesler, Edler in order to bring in, via trade, the quality of impact player necessary to really make noise in the West.

I don't buy the just get into the playoffs and anything can happen rhetoric. They might match up well andcould steal a series from Detroit(depending on injury status in Motown) and some of the other opening rounds might be slufest leaving the victor bruised and battered, but the lack of scoring finish will bite them on the rear no matter how well Luongo plays.

For me, the direction is clear. Kevin Bieksa for a scoring centre (NOT Ollie Jokinen). I have no problem with Naslund being brought back in at the 4 to 5 milion dollar range, but do not want one penny reinvested in Brendan Morrison. He's now a 'tweener' that is somewhere between a 3rd line centre and a second line centre, and they have that already in Ryan Kesler.

The team to look to first is Philadelphia. Neither Umberger or Carter have appeared to live up to their offensive potential as of yet for the Flyers, and both are RFA this summer. Kevin Bieksa is tailor-made for the Flyer philosophy and is exactly what that team is missing right now. The Canucks could start with an offer of Bieksa and Schneider and see what shakes loose. Who knows, with Briere a somewhat disappointment there already, they might be able to get him here to play with Mason Raymond. If not, either Carter or Umberger would do just as well.

I don't think this group needs to be blown up this year. That nasty little chore should be reserved until the summer of 09, when the twins and Ohlund are both UFA and Luongo is entering the last year of his deal.

When you look at what they do have at forward, you can't blame the players that are here for lack of scoring. The twins and Naslund are as advertised, and Kesler, Pyatt and Burrows will all set career marks this season. If you take the first 8 game call up out of the equation with Raymond, he's on a 50 point pace. That's not bad for a rookie who has spent the year playing with Jaffrey, Shannon and Matt Cooke.

With Naslund back again next year, you have one set scoring line with him and the twins. You have a set third line with Burrows, Kesler and Pettinger. Shed the dead weight on the fourth line in Isbister and Linden, bring back Ritchie and call up Brown, and your fourth line is fine. Plenty of filler with the Moose to look to for spares with guys like Shannon, Rypien, Jaffrey, Grabner, Simek, Hansen, Bliznak and Gendur (I'm sure I'm missing another one or two). What they will need is a bonafide scoring centre to play with Pyatt and Raymond to give them a second scoring line.

On defense, they have limited options. Mitchell, Ohlund and Salo all have NTCs. Ohlund won't waive it for family reasons, Salo has an umovable contract anyways, and Mitchell signed here in the first place to settle into Vancouver for the rest of his career.

That leaves Bieksa, Edler, Krajicek and Bourdon. Clearly Bourdon is not enough to land you that centre. He will either have to be traded this summer or guaranteed a roster spot; another year in the minors and you may as well leave him there for good. Edler is obviously highly sought after, and for good reason. His potential is vast. IMO, he's an untouchable, like it or not. You don't get a chance to draft defensemen of his ability very often no matter who you are; trading him now could be a blunder of epic proportions for this team. Krajicek won't get you anything, so that leaves Bieksa. He also happens to be a 3.75 mil cap hit after this season. Now that's a very reasonable contract in itself, but not when you are spending 3.5 mil each on Ohlund, Mitchell and Salo and have a hole big enough to drive a fleet of Zambonis through in your top 6 forward group. Yes, Bieksa is talented...he may very well be as Rusty describes him...a poor man's Scott Stevens. But he is the one valuable piece that the Canucks can afford to part with to fill that hole at centre with quality and substance.

In goal, if Schneider is not moved in the summer, then he needs to be on this team and apprenticing under Luongo starting next September. If Nonis hopes to get any return on him, or hopes to use him as an insurance policy should Luongo tire of Nonis' holding pattern and bolt for greener pastures, then he has to play in the NHL as quickly as possible, whether he's ready for it or not.

It's unfortunate for the fans in this city that Nonis has allowed it to come down to one make or break season. After all, the odds are not on their side. And if things go wrong next year, they could go horribly wrong for this team for the better part of a decade.

Imagine if you will this scenario for the summer of 09. A team with a boat load of cap space offers the Sedins 8 million per for 4 or 5 seasons and twins take it. Seeing the team going nowhere fast, Luongo refuses all of managment's advancements towards signing an extension and forces the Canucks to deal him at the 2010 dealine, just days after Luongo comes out of the Olympics here in Vancouver, potentially as the starting goalie for the gold medal champions. By this time, Naslund is gone for nothing and guys like Kesler, Pyatt, Raymond and Edler are all demanding 4 million dollar per year contracts. Can we even begin to wrap our heads around what kind of nightmare we could be looking at going in to the next decade in a scenario like that?

This will be the make or break summer for Nonis, and I hate that more than you can all imagine. Because if he breaks, gordo the fan is still left here to carry on through the mess he leaves behind.

For the love of gawd, Nonis, get your head out of that bag of excuses, steer out of this holding pattern you're in and get this team pointed back in the right direction.

[AtLossForWords]

Gordo that is quite a nightmare that the Sedins would demand eight million each and Kesker, Edler, Pyatt, Raymond want four.

However you can't keep second tier players on your roster forever. Why do you think guys like Kovalev, Mogilny,Brunette, Markarov, and Sullivan have moved around so much throughout their careers. It isn't because they are capable hockey players, but because they are not core players. You're eventually going to have to choose who you want to pay and where you place your band aids.

Pyatt was a project that worked out, Isbister didn't, Beech didn't, everyonce in awhile you're going to have to be prepared to give up some second tier players and replace a Carter with a Pyatt for cheap every now and then.

In this case you hope that the Sedins don't get so egotistical that they deman eight a piece because they aren't the quality of Richards, LeCavalier, or Ovechkin. You give them five and that is fair. Then you choose to pay Kesler, Edler, and Raymond, and that is your second tier to your team.

If you draft well enough you can expect a guy like Raymond to come around every couple years and step into a scoring role. Nonis is going to be made or broken at the next two drafts. If he mucks them up, this team is mucked up for a long time.

[gordphish]

Gordo that is quite a nightmare that the Sedins would demand eight million each and Kesker, Edler, Pyatt, Raymond want four.

However you can't keep second tier players on your roster forever. Why do you think guys like Kovalev, Mogilny,Brunette, Markarov, and Sullivan have moved around so much throughout their careers. It isn't because they are capable hockey players, but because they are not core players. You're eventually going to have to choose who you want to pay and where you place your band aids.

Pyatt was a project that worked out, Isbister didn't, Beech didn't, everyonce in awhile you're going to have to be prepared to give up some second tier players and replace a Carter with a Pyatt for cheap every now and then.

In this case you hope that the Sedins don't get so egotistical that they deman eight a piece because they aren't the quality of Richards, LeCavalier, or Ovechkin. You give them five and that is fair. Then you choose to pay Kesler, Edler, and Raymond, and that is your second tier to your team.

If you draft well enough you can expect a guy like Raymond to come around every couple years and step into a scoring role. Nonis is going to be made or broken at the next two drafts. If he mucks them up, this team is mucked up for a long time.

I didn't imply the Sedins would demand 8 mil. What I suggested was that a team like Columbus could come along and offer them 8 mil per each.

I'm not really sure what you mean by the next two drafts being what makes or breaks Dave Nonis as the GM here.

And here is a very telling stat that Shorthouse provided yesterday. On 17 occasions in February the Canucks had a one goal lead on the opposition, and 15 times the Canucks failed to build on that lead with a goal and the opposition tied the game. With another scorer in the lineup, how many of those games are in the bag going in to the third period, when the Canucks are 23-0 when leading after two?

[AtLossForWords]

I say that this next or two will make or break Nonis, because if he has to shell out big money to guys like Edler, Kesler, and Pyatt too soon, he's going to have to be prepared to let someone go.

If you sign the Sedins for five million a piece, you still have room to work. If you have to pay them each eight, you might as well let them walk because tying up sixteen million in two guys who only s