First International Baseball Tournament (with MLB Players)

[Mel]

Coming next spring

shoud be interesting :thumb:
NEW YORK -- The World Baseball Classic, a World Cup-type tournament that Major League Baseball has been planning for at least two years, is on.
The tournament, which will include Major League players in international competition for the first time, is to be played during Spring Training 2006, Commissioner Bud Selig announced on Wednesday after the 30 owners' quarterly meeting.

The tentative dates are March 4-20, with an Asian qualifying tournament played at the front end of it and the finals a possibility for San Diego's PETCO Park. The full details will be formally revealed by MLB a day before the July 12 All-Star Game at Detroit's Comerica Park, Selig said.

"Our goal is to grow the game globally. I have very strong feelings on that subject," Selig said at a press conference. "This is something we've talked about for a long time. The time really is now. This is the centerpiece of that."

The tournament, originally targeted for this past spring, was delayed for a year primarily to accommodate the Japanese, who couldn't field a team in 2005 because of contraction and restructuring of their major leagues, Nippon Professional Baseball. It is likely Japan's team will be part of the expected 16-squad field next spring.

If all goes according to plan, the tournament would be held again in 2009, and then every four years after that.rest of article --> http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050511&content_id=1047221&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

My only question is... won't this throw a bit of a wrench into MLB spring training? With so many players coming from so many different countries, there will be huge numbers of MLB players missing camp for this.

[KB in Kelowna]

Is spring training still a valuable exercise? Most if not all players are in good condition year round due to condition programs so the old need to get in shape is not there, with Winter leagues and various practice facilities they have a chance to develope skills year round. Exhibition games are merely a chance for the owners to generate revenue and for fans to see the teams up close. Somehow I think there is more revenue potential from this tournament and thats why Selig is pushing for it.

[leaferfan87]

I saw a list of the projected Canadian team and you know what it doesn't look that bad. Rich Harden, Jeff Francis and Erik Bedard anchoring the rotation. Rheal Cormier, Paul Quantrill and Eric Gagne in relief. Justin Morneau, Pete Orr and Corey Koskie in the infield and Larry Walker, Jason Bay and Matt Stairs in the outfield.

It definitely isn't going to match the US, Japan or some of the Latin American countries, but it does show how baseball in Canada has developed and how more Canadians are starting to have an impact on the game.

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Gagne said in an article about a month ago that he wouldn't participate in a World Cup.

Even without him, the Canadians might be able to upset one or two teams :thumb:

[Mel]

Gagne said in an article about a month ago that he wouldn't participate in a World Cup.

Even without him, the Canadians might be able to upset one or two teams :thumb:

What was his reason for declining to participate in a world tournament?

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

He says if the World Cup is held during Spring Training chances are he won't compete.

VERO BEACH, Fla. (CP) - Eric Gagne has heard the talk about Major League Baseball's proposed World Cup and he doesn't like it at all.

The Los Angeles Dodgers' star closer thinks the timing is wrong, the quality of play won't be there, the risk of injury is too high, the loss of off-season recovery time too critical.

So if the tournament is held during spring training next year, as baseball owners and the players' association hope, the native of Mascouche, Que., isn't likely to suit up for Canada.

"I don't think it makes sense to play an extra month. There's no way I'm getting up a month earlier," Gagne said Sunday after a light workout at Dodgertown. "I love the thought of it, I'd love to play for my home country, but what are we focused on here, major league baseball or (the World Cup)?

"If it's in the season, that's fine. Two weeks in the season, but they won't do it."

Plans for a 16-team World Cup have been percolating for a couple of years now and gained momentum in recent months. Most recently, players signed an agreement in late February calling for international drug-testing rules during the event.

Many issues, however, remain unresolved and the concerns Gagne raised Sunday have yet to be addressed.

Widely regarded as the best closer in baseball, Gagne doesn't see how players will have enough time to work themselves into game shape for a spring tournament. Players would have to show up for at least three weeks of extra training before the tournament and then take the field for a 162-game season that's a grind on even the best of athletes.

"I don't think a lot of people are going to like that. It's hard on the body," said Gagne. "It would promote baseball all over the world, that's great. But people have to pitch all year long."

Holding the tournament just before spring training also wouldn't work, he said.

"For me, the last two weeks is when I start working," said Gagne. "So you want me to go out and compete? I'd just go out and throw all fastballs. Is that what people really want to see? I think they want to see people at the top of their game, they don't want to see people getting ready."

That goes for hitters just as much as pitchers.

"They wouldn't be ready," said Gagne. "They'd be spring training ready. . . .

"Will people pay for that? I don't know. You got to make sure you do it for the right reasons."

That's why Gagne believes the tournament should happen during the season, or not at all. It's not unprecedented - the NHL has twice interrupted seasons to allow players to compete at the Olympics, leading to memorable best-on-best events.

Baseball, on the other hand, has never shown any inclination to pause a season so its players could go to the Olympics, hatching the World Cup as an alternative.

"If you do it in the season, it makes more sense," said Gagne, who also thinks holding the World Cup after the World Series is a bad idea.

"People don't want to get hurt when they're tired. People are going to say 'He doesn't want to represent his country.' No, I got a contract year and I want to make sure I'm healthy for next year. What if I blow up? What if my arm goes out? It's still a competition, you're still going to go out and give 100 per cent.

"Some people are going to get hurt, I wouldn't be willing to risk that."

If the tournament does go ahead and Gagne chooses to sit out, Canada would suffer a huge blow. Against teams stacked with superstars, a solid but thin Canuck club would likely have to play like the Dodgers of last season, relying on pitching to ensure that whatever the offence produces is enough.

Having Gagne to shut the door makes it a shorter game for the opposition.

"This team is just so geared around him," said Dodgers right-fielder Jayson Werth. "We're geared to get that one-run lead and get into the late innings. That's what we did so successfully last year, get him in the game and as the slogan goes, the game's over.

"Everybody has a closer but with him on your team, he brings a certain mystique to whole environment."

The 29-year-old understands that and, after agreeing to a $19 million US, two-year contract last month, he sensibly feels his main obligation is to the Dodgers, not to a World Cup tournament.

A scare earlier this spring when Gagne caught a cleat during a game of pepper and suffered a mild left knee sprain was a reminder how easily injuries can occur.

Had it happened at the World Cup, Gagne would be in a tough spot with his bosses.

Gagne is long-tossing now and continues to progress. The injury hasn't set him back in his routine and he's expected to be fine for the regular season.

"The knee's just a little sore right now but it's getting better," said Gagne. "I've always had a light routine, I work hard but I never throw a lot."


Link (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/2005/03/06/952266-cp.html)

[Mel]

Thanks - well he's obviously thought it through and I happen to agree with some of his points. You can't ask MLB pitchers to be throwing their best stuff in March. Fatigue is a big factor with pitchers. I agree they should interupt the season mid way if they want to have this tournament.

Spring training also serves the purpose of team's getting a good look at their farm talent in big league competition... even if it is just controlled exhibition.

I also like the fact that Gagne has a team first attitude to the guys signing his fat check. Seems like he's in favor of the idea, but just have it during the season when guys bodies are accustomed to throwing their best on a regular basis.

[Mel]

Just for the heck of it... I jotted down some ideas for team USA.

C - Varitek (BOS), Mauer (MIN), Piazza (NYM)
1B - Helton COL, Teixeira (TEX), Lee (CHC)
2B - Roberts (BAL), Kent (LAD)
SS - Jeter (NYY), Young (TEX)
3B - Arod (NYY)
OF - Bonds (SF), Sheffield (NYY), Damon (BOS), Floyd (NYM), Bradley (LAD), Clark (MIL), Crawford (TB), Edmonds (STL), C. Jones (ATL)

SP - Big Unit (NYY), Schilling (BOS), Clemens (HOU), Schmidt (SF), Prior (CHC), Willis (FLA), Myers(PHI), Beckett (FLA), Halladay (TOR)

RP - Lidge (HOU), Isringhausen (STL), Foulke (BOS), Turnbow (MIL), Lyon (AZ), Shields (LAA)

I am thoroughly convinced that the dominican republic would be favorites in the tournament. Very scary how much of MLB's top talent comes straight from the D.R.

Also this may be a stupid question but is Puerto Rico part of the U.S.? or it's own country... that would have a big impact. All the players I named above were born in the states. (none in Puerto Rico)

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Puerto Rico would play as its own nation.

btw, A-Rod should play SS, he's still the best in the league. Rolen starts at third.

[Canucklehead]

I am thoroughly convinced that the dominican republic would be favorites in the tournament. Very scary how much of MLB's top talent comes straight from the D.R.

Vladimir Guerrero
Albert Pujols
Manny Ramirez
Alfonso Soriano
Sammy Sosa
Miguel Tejada
Bartolo Colon
Adrian Beltre
Luis Castilo

And a couple hundred more to choose from as well......

[Mel]

btw, A-Rod should play SS, he's still the best in the league. Rolen starts at third.Regardless of whether you are correct... I am a little biased on that decision. :wicked:
Vladimir Guerrero
Albert Pujols
Manny Ramirez
Alfonso Soriano
Sammy Sosa
Miguel Tejada
Bartolo Colon
Adrian Beltre
Luis Castilo

And a couple hundred more to choose from as well......
Ortiz is Dominican too I believe.

But for pitching... what aces do they have besides Pedro Martinez?

[Mel]

Actually for those of you interested in the USA baseball team. ESPN has set up a poll where you can vote for each position.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/ballot?event_id=1332

:pimp:

Here's how it looks with just shy of 40,000 votes in...

1B - Todd Helton
2B - Jeff Kent
SS - Derek Jeter
3B - Alex Rodriquez
C - Jason Varitek
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Jim Edmonds
RF - Gary Sheffield

Starters(4)
- Roger Clemens
- Randy Johnson
- Curt Schilling
- Dontrelle Willis

Closer(1)
- Brad Lidge

[leaferfan87]

Three of the US's starters are either 40+ or about to turn 40. I would reccomend some youth in there. Try to usher in guys like Halladay, Sheets, Willis and Buehrle.

[Mel]

Three of the US's starters are either 40+ or about to turn 40. I would reccomend some youth in there. Try to usher in guys like Halladay, Sheets, Willis and Buehrle.

Willis is already in there. I still go with Clemens and Big unit, even though they are both over 40, both are still dominant (especially Clemens). I'm not crazy about Schilling until he proves that he's back to his former self, and over the ankle problems.

Anyhow that's just an internet poll... I don't know how the real team will get determined.

[Canucklehead]

Willis is already in there. I still go with Clemens and Big unit, even though they are both over 40, both are still dominant (especially Clemens). I'm not crazy about Schilling until he proves that he's back to his former self, and over the ankle problems.

I would take any of these pitchers over Schilling:

Mark Prior
Tim Hudson
Roy Halladay
Jason Schmidt
Ben Sheets
Jake Peavy

[Canucklehead]

But for pitching... what aces do they have besides Pedro Martinez?

Miguel Batista, Daniel Cabrera, Bartolo Colon, Jose Lima, Ramon Ortiz. Their pitching is definitley no where near their hitting.

[Mel]

I take back my vote for Randy Johnson on team USA.

Reason? This obviously is the first year I've gotten to watch him closely. He hasn't been as dominant as expected. He keeps saying he'll pitch better in the warmer weather. Sure enough, Saturday on a scorching day in St. Louis he pitched a rock solid 7 innings with 7 K's and no runs, in route to a 5-0 victory against the powerful Cards.

This leads me to believe if they hold this thing in March as planned. Johnson will be ineffective.

[J.R.]

I take back my vote for Randy Johnson on team USA.

Reason?How about the fact that the Yankees are the only major league team to vote against sending players to the World Baseball Classic?

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1117515248207170.xml&coll=1

[Mel]

How about the fact that the Yankees are the only major league team to vote against sending players to the World Baseball Classic?

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1117515248207170.xml&coll=1

That is Steinbrenner J.R. He has his reasons. It has absolutely nothing to do with the players, many of whom will see action in the tournament, unless the boss says no.

At any rate it would be stupid to penalize a player for something he has absolutely no control over. Unless of course it's the Yankees ;)

[Mel]

groupings have been announced

DEARBORN, Mich. -- The United States will be grouped with Mexico, Canada and South Africa next year in the first round of baseball's first World Cup-style tournament.

The 16-nation, 18-day event, called the World Baseball Classic, opens March 3 in Tokyo or Taiwan, where Group A will include Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and China.

The United States will be in Group B, which starts play March 8 along with the other groups and will be based in the United States.

Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama and the Netherlands are in Group C, which will be in Latin America, and the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Australia and Italy are in Group D, which will be based in Florida.

rest -> http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2105387

[Mel]

Wow I just found out that A-Rod is going to play for the Dominican Republic!

Even though he was born in New York he apparently has dual citizenship as a Dominican. That really came as a surprise to me. That's a blow to the US team.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2106934

[J.R.]

That's a shock to me too. But it will all depend on if Georgie will let his boys out to play for their countries.

Just taking a quick look at the seedings by group, it looks like the organizing commitee is trying to make a push at a United States/Dominican Republic final. That is the best matchup on paper, but I don't think the U.S. is one of the best teams. Baseball in the Caribbean has almost surpassed the United States in terms of developement. Japan too. I think that they'll struggle, like they did in their failed attempt to qualify for the 2004 Olympics.

I'm really looking forward to this tournament thougt. I think it's going to be well run and hopefully it will produce some great games with professional players. I'm also hoping that a network in Canada picks up the TV deal, so we can see the majority of the games here.

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Doesn't shock me at all. I read an article on this two weeks back, and A-Rod said he takes a lot of pride in his background and if the rules allowed he'd serious consider playing for the old country.

And J.R., America is still a force in baseball. You know why? Their pitching is still far superior to any other country in the world. Clemens, Halladay, Prior, Peavy, Sheets, Buerhle, Johnson, Schilling, Carpenter, Hudson, Lidge, Wagner, Hoffman, etc. The rotation and bullpen will be very deep for the Yanks, and that's what will win them this tourney.

[J.R.]

And J.R., America is still a force in baseball. You know why? Their pitching is still far superior to any other country in the world. Clemens, Halladay, Prior, Peavy, Sheets, Buerhle, Johnson, Schilling, Lidge, Wagner, Hoffman, etc. The rotation and bullpen will be very deep for the Yanks, and that's what will win them this tourney.Of course they're a force in baseball. They're a force in any sport, but I don't think they will win. That's a great list of pitchers, but I don't know much pitching matters in international baseball. I give the early favourites line to the places producing the young, fast, talented and vibrant baseball players that want to represent their country. Being as the United States "are on top of the world," it adds even more incentive to smaller countries like Venezuela, Cuba, Puerto Rico to win this tournament. I just don't see the United States winning.

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Of course they're a force in baseball. They're a force in any sport, but I don't think they will win. That's a great list of pitchers, but I don't know much pitching matters in international baseball. I give the early favourites line to the places producing the young, fast, talented and vibrant baseball players that want to represent their country. Being as the United States "are on top of the world," it adds even more incentive to smaller countries like Venezuela, Cuba, Puerto Rico to win this tournament. I just don't see the United States winning.

Pitching matters a lot. Especially since the tourney will be held in March. No starter is gonna last more than 5 innings (early in the tourney they might only go 3 or 4) so depth is essential. It's also something that Caribbean countries lack.

[Mel]

I don't know who's going to win but I do know this.

1) the D.R. is head and shoulders above the rest of the countries on offense. However, No other country is blatantly more powerful that the U.S. bats. You could make a case for equality... but the U.S. is still going to field a pretty powerful team even w/o A-rod.l

2) Pitching, no one touches the U.S. Yes you have superstars out there, pedro, santana etc. But as LFL mentioned no one approaches the pitching depth of the U.S.

Why pitching wouldn't matter in international play is beyond me. That's like saying goaltending doesn't matter in international hockey. Of course it does!

I'm not saying the US will win. But the loss of A-rod doesn't dash their hopes. There's still an all-star caliber player to fill every spot. Anyway it's gonna be weird to have this thing in March.

[J.R.]

Anyway it's gonna be weird to have this thing in March.Do you think November would be better? Someone mentioned to me today that it would be. I mean, players are still fairly fresh from the season, so there's less of a risk of an injury right before the start of the regular season. I don't think cold weather would be a factor because of the host cities of Miami, Phoenix and other international locations. It wouldn't interfere with the spring training of the major league clubs and they'd have three full months off before the spring training.

[Mel]

Do you think November would be better? Someone mentioned to me today that it would be. I mean, players are still fairly fresh from the season, so there's less of a risk of an injury right before the start of the regular season. I don't think cold weather would be a factor because of the host cities of Miami, Phoenix and other international locations. It wouldn't interfere with the spring training of the major league clubs and they'd have three full months off before the spring training.

I think they should break for 2 weeks mid-season and can the all-star game. November is as cold as May. Just my HO.

[KB in Kelowna]

I think they should break for 2 weeks mid-season and can the all-star game. November is as cold as May. Just my HO.

Cold as May?

[Mel]

March :wave:

[Matt Cooke]

Canada?

1B: Justin Morneau
2B: Pete Orr
3B: Corey Koskie/Mark Teahan
SS: ?
OF: Adam Stern
OF: Jason Bay
OF: Larry Walker
DH: Matt Stairs

SP: Jeff Francis
SP: Rich Harden
RP: Jesse Crain
RP: Chris Reitsma
RP: Ryan Dempster
RP: Rheal Cormier
RP: Paul Quantrill

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Canada?

1B: Justin Morneau
2B: Pete Orr
3B: Corey Koskie/Mark Teahan
SS: ?
OF: Adam Stern
OF: Jason Bay
OF: Larry Walker
DH: Matt Stairs

SP: Jeff Francis
SP: Rich Harden
RP: Jesse Crain
RP: Chris Reitsma
RP: Ryan Dempster
RP: Rheal Cormier
RP: Paul Quantrill

Branden Claussen will be the starting shortshop and Erik Bedard of the Orioles should be our 3rd starter.

[Mel]

I was just thinking, if A-rod does play for the D.R. then you could argue that their infield is the best in MLB at every position.

1B - Pujols
2B - Soriano
SS - Tejada
3B - A-Rod

Anyone dispute that those are the four best players in the league today at their respective positions? (offensively - just talking about the bats here)

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

I was just thinking, if A-rod does play for the D.R. then you could argue that their infield is the best in MLB at every position.

1B - Pujols
2B - Soriano
SS - Tejada
3B - A-Rod

Anyone dispute that those are the four best players in the league today at their respective positions? (offensively - just talking about the bats here)

I was gonna argue Soriano, but then I saw you said offensively :doh:

[J.R.]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/jrthesportsczar/CanadianMLB.png

Looking good. :thumb:

[Mel]

I was gonna argue Soriano, but then I saw you said offensively :doh:

Yeah :laughing:

even so, could you make a case for Roberts or Kent?

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Yeah :laughing:

even so, could you make a case for Roberts or Kent?

Kent, no. He's still productive offensively, but I'll take Soriano's power and speed.

Roberts is an interesting case because we don't know if he'll show the power he's shown this year in the future. He hit 50 doubles the year before though, so he was driving the ball to the gap and not missing homeruns by much. At 27 he is entering his prime too, so he might have this kind of production for several more seasons. I think he could be a consistant 20-20 man. Now, Soriano is threat for 40-40 seasons if his team gives him the green light on the bases enough. However, Roberts is a leadoff hitter and has an OBP of .416. Also, he can actually field, unlike Soriano. At second base I value guys who field the position well, and Soriano couldn't play a ground ball if his life depended on it. I guess it all depends on whether you want the slugger or the table setter. Normally I'd take the slugger, but at a position where defense is important and considering Soriano (and his .307 OBP) will bat leadoff at this thing, I'll take Roberts.

Sorry if that came off as mindless rambling :coffee:

[Mel]

Japan to play in World Baseball Classic

TOKYO -- Japan officially agreed Friday to take part in baseball's first World Cup-style tournament.

After months of negotiations between the Japanese commissioner's office and players' association, a letter accepting an invitation to take part in the World Baseball Classic was delivered to Major League Baseball's Tokyo office.

"I am pleased that Nippon Professional Baseball and its players' association have agreed to participate in the first ever World Baseball Classic," commissioner Bud Selig said in a statement. "Japanese players are among the best in the world and their participation in this event is important to the global growth of the sport."

Japanese baseball officials originally expressed an intent take part in the tournament in November but didn't get the final approval of the players until Friday.

"This is the first step toward playing in a truly international tournament, something our association has been longing for," said Yakult Swallows catcher Atsuya Furuta, head of Japan's players' association.



Both initially objected because the tournament will be held during spring training and because it is being organized by Major League Baseball and its players' association, rather than an international body.

The World Baseball Classic is an 18-day, 16-nation event to take place in the United States, Asia and Latin America starting March 3.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2163199

[Mel]

After deciding to play for the Dominican Republic instead of his native U.S.A. - ARod has apparently reconsidered and will not participate in the World Baseball Classic... for either country.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051216&content_id=1282851&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb