Montoya the AHL backup this year.

[wildboy26]

I recall saying before the year Montoya would be backup in the AHL to Holt, and was told I was crazy to think either would happen. Well I was not right on Holt but I was right that he has been relegated to AHL backup this year. The veteran journeyman who he currently shares duties with in the AHL has more starts then him in the games both have been healthy and dressed for(
excluding those 1 is up wth the NHL team), and has had more stretches of starting multiple in a row, despite Montoya having slightly better stats to boot. That is a strange way to choose to develop a so called top prospect in their sophomore year, after being an AHL all star last year, make them backup up a veteran journeyman in the AHL. :laughing:

[charlio lemieux]

Hartford played their 54th game last night. Montoya has played in 27 games.

Looks more like a platoon situation, and not that he has been put in a backup role.

Will you atleast try to get your facts straight and not make crap up and overblow everything?

[Mel]

Time for another "I hate Montoya" thread ay?

You lost all your credibility by insisting last year that Chris Holt was the next coming of Martin Brodeur and Al Montoya would never make it to the NHL. You're rantings are meanlingless to me.

Go here: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/new_york_rangers please and tell me who is #2 on the Rangers prospect depth chart.

wild child - I'm about to skip town for a week so I won't be able to respond until I get back... but I may not bother - that whole Holt vs. Montoya thing was a big waste of time and energy, and this will be no different.

[wildboy26]

Hartford played their 54th game last night. Montoya has played in 27 games.

Looks more like a platoon situation, and not that he has been put in a backup role.

Will you atleast try to get your facts straight and not make crap up and overblow everything?

Sorry to break reality to you but Montoya has started 24 games this year, Valiquette has started 29. Montoya has played in 27, Valiquette in 31. Get your own facts straight, mine are right, yours are not.

Secondly even I specificaly said games both were dressed for, meaning 2 was not injured or up with the Rangers at the time. I excluded those games 1 was injured or up with the Rangers, in games both were dressed for, healthy, in the AHL, Valiquette has started more of them, and there are more strings he has started multiple games in a row. Valiquette has actually started 26 of them with Montoya backing him up, Montoya 22 with Valiquette backing him up.

Thirdly even if you were right, a sophomore prospect platooning with a middle age veteran journeyman goalie with little future upside is a huge rarity and does not happen to a truly quality prospect.

[wildboy26]

Time for another "I hate Montoya" thread ay?

You lost all your credibility by insisting last year that Chris Holt was the next coming of Martin Brodeur and Al Montoya would never make it to the NHL. You're rantings are meanlingless to me.

Go here: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/new_york_rangers please and tell me who is #2 on the Rangers prospect depth chart.

wild child - I'm about to skip town for a week so I won't be able to respond until I get back... but I may not bother - that whole Holt vs. Montoya thing was a big waste of time and energy, and this will be no different.

You will find nowhere I insinuated Holt was an NHL superstar in the making. I did say I believed he was over Montoya, I am wrong on that. However I was right in Montoya being demoted to an AHL backup this year, which you said I was crazy to think would happen.

First of all that list you linked to was done BEFORE this season began. Before as a sophomore AHLer, who after being an AHL star in his rookie season, is relegated backing up a 29 year old journeyman in the AHL. As you can see their prognosis for him this year was already way off base-He is expected to be the number 1 netminder with the Hartford Wolf Pack during the 2006-07 season. Depending how they feel about the need for a real goalie prospect they will probably draft one. I still believe Montoya will never make it to the NHL to stay, that is for sure, he isnt even good enough to start the AHL as a 22 year old sophomore apparently.

[charlio lemieux]

Sorry to break reality to you but Montoya has started 24 games this year, Valiquette has started 29. Montoya has played in 27, Valiquette in 31. Get your own facts straight, mine are right, yours are not.

Secondly even I specificaly said games both were dressed for, meaning 2 was not injured or up with the Rangers at the time. I excluded those games 1 was injured or up with the Rangers, in games both were dressed for, healthy, in the AHL, Valiquette has started more of them, and there are more strings he has started multiple games in a row. Valiquette has actually started 26 of them with Montoya backing him up, Montoya 22 with Valiquette backing him up.

Thirdly even if you were right, a sophomore prospect platooning with a middle age veteran journeyman goalie with little future upside is a huge rarity and does not happen to a truly quality prospect.

Listen here you. My facts were straight. You even restated them in your own post. Try to pay attention. I said he played 27 games and he has.

24/29 or 22/26 is still a platoon. You want to learn what a back up is, look at how many games have been played by Aubin, Clemmenson, Markkanen, Tibault or Hedberg.
:rolleyes: :talkhand:

[wildboy26]

You were saying he played 27, and then instantly pointed out there were 54 games played. The implication being those are half the games. That is not the case however as some of those games are in relief, and the total games both have played is higher then 54 in that sense.

The guy who plays more when both are healthy and with the team is the starter and that is definitely the 29 year old journeyman who is in that role over the 22 sophomore supposed prospect.
I wonder how many teams have their supposed hot prospect be an AHL all star their rookie year and relegate them to backup behind a 29 year old journeyman in their sophomore year.

[charlio lemieux]

You were saying he played 27, and then instantly pointed out there were 54 games played. The implication being those are half the games. That is not the case however as some of those games are in relief, and the total games both have played is higher then 54 in that sense.


If you are having trouble understanding what is written just say so. Don't go making foolish assumptions.

[Mel]

I'm back wild one... and I still don't think this is worth arguing about.

but this:
First of all that list you linked to was done BEFORE this season began.
is a foolish statement. The depth charts are updated throughout the season. I know because I read it more than once. Sanguinetti did not start the season at #5 but he's there now. Need more proof? John Seymour, the prospect that came with Sean Avery just a few weeks ago is listed in the Other notables section. How could that list possiblly have been unchanged from before the season?

Montoya remains #2 on the Rangers depth chart behind Staal. Nothing has changed no matter how much (for whatever kookie reason) you have a hate on for him.

I'll leave you with this Rangers Analysis from the same page:


Strengths
1 Many NHL-ready or near ready prospects
2 top goaltending prospect
3 Depth in 3rd/4th line forwards

Weaknesses
1. Need power forward prospects
2. Lack of very high quality center prospects
3. Depth in goaltender position beyond Al Montoya

the vast majority of sensible people in the world of hockey consider Montoya a blue chip goal tending prospect. And that's all he is right now is a prospect. Whether or not he becomes a top minder at the NHL level remains to be seen. Nobody knows, not you me or anybody else.

[wildboy26]

You continue kidding yourself to believing a sophomore who was demoted to AHL backup behind a 29 year old journeyman is a blue chip goaltender prospect. I will continue believing otherwise and continue to be right. It will take more then one scouting service still rating him a #2 Rangers prospect, while he is demoted to AHL backup in his sophomore year behind a non-prospect middle-aged minor league journeyman to change my viewpoint.

You also said I was crazy to suggest he wouldnt be the AHL starter this year. Well he isnt, so I am already right in that regard, even if I was wrong on Holt.

Interestingly enough in an organization that you even show declares itself to lack of depth of goaltending prospects the best he can muster is being an AHL backup in his sophomore year after being an AHL all star in his rookie year. Yet you still want to believe he is a top prospect. LOL!

I have seen him play many times and technicaly he is a very flawed goalie BTW.

[Mel]

You continue kidding yourself to believing a sophomore who was demoted to AHL backup behind a 29 year old journeyman is a blue chip goaltender prospect. I will continue believing otherwise and continue to be right.
continue believing whatever you wish, that's all you are capable of - believing what you want to believe. Like Hockey's Future does not update their depth charts, or that Chris Holt is the real deal. :laughing:

It will take more then one scouting service still rating him a #2 Rangers prospect,
If you did a slight bit of digging, you would find many other sources that rank Montoya highly. I won't waste my time spoon feeding it to you. It's out there if you'd care to look for it. As for his accomplishments and awards on the ice, they are fact, not subject to speculation or debate. Sorry

while he is demoted to AHL backup in his sophomore year behind a non-prospect middle-aged minor league journeyman to change my viewpoint.
This "demoted" business is rubbish. Montoya and Valiquette have an equal number of starts however Montoya has missed time to injury. Find me a source that explicitly states Montoya has officially been demoted to backup goalie in Hartford. If you can't, then your talking out your a** yet again.

You also said I was crazy to suggest he wouldnt be the AHL starter this year. Well he isnt, so I am already right in that regard, even if I was wrong on Holt.
All I remember about your crazy suggestions is going back and forth with you that Chris Holt was going to start this season in Hartford over Montoya. In retrospect, I wonder why I even wasted my time... I was probably bored. :yawn:

You were 100% wrong then, I have no reason to believe you're not 100% wrong now.

For the record, Chris Holt is 17-15 with a 3.22 GAA and .895 SV% in the ECHL this season.

Yep, you sure called that one. :thumb:

The truth of the matter is you didn't know or care crap about Holt... you only knew he was the closest competition to Montoya in the Rangers organization at the time - so you went on some kind of weird crusade that he would rise above Montoya in Hartford. This year it's Valiquette. Next year it'll be somebody else.

Also for the record...
2006-07 AHL Regular Season - Goals Against Average (http://stats.theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_goalies) #5 Al Montoya
2006-07 AHL Regular Season - Save Percentage (http://stats.theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_goalies&subType=1&season_id=8&&leagueId=4&lastActive=&singleSeason=) #7 Al Montoya

(Montoya leads Valiquette in both stats)

Interestingly enough in an organization that you even show declares itself to lack of depth of goaltending prospects the best he can muster is being an AHL backup in his sophomore year after being an AHL all star in his rookie year. Yet you still want to believe he is a top prospect. LOL!

I have seen him play many times and technicaly he is a very flawed goalie BTW.

Since you've seen him play so much, please tell me what has changed between last season and this season that suddenly made Montoya a bust?
How did he make the all-star team last year if he's so flawed? Was he technically flawed when, with zero international experience, he stepped in as starter and led team USA to a world junior gold in 04, edging team Canada and #1 overall pick MAF?

From the way you tell it, I'm assuming you've seen Montoya play much more than I have... so please tell me what changed from last season to this season in your own words. I don't want vague speculation, and I don't want you to tell me how many starts Montoya has this year. I want your own analysis as to what changed and when it changed - if you would be so kind.

If you can do that I'll be happy to engage the conversation. If it's more of the same "smear Montoya" campaign with no source or facts to back it up, I'll take a pass.

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Montoya is 11th on HockeysFuture Spring Top 50.

11. Al Montoya, G - New York Rangers

Montoya has been able to bounce back from off-season shoulder surgery to make the majority of starts for the Hartford Wolf Pack. He has a 20-13-0 record for the Pack and is one of the top goaltenders in the AHL, ranked seventh in save percentage with .919 and third in goals against average at 2.13. The Rangers' top draft pick from 2004 has a high threshold for pressure and is known for his ability to remain composed under most any circumstance. He also has excellent movement and puck-handling skills, and all the makings of a starting netminder in the NHL.

[charlio lemieux]

Hmm I wonder if WB prefers his Crow roasted, boiled or BBQ'd? ;)

[krypt1968]

Beter late then never. he will be a future #1 somplace just not sure if it will be with the rangers.

source: http://theahl.com/news/league/index.html?article_id=7517

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. … The American Hockey League announced today that Al Montoya of the Hartford Wolf Pack has been named the Rbk X-Pulse/AHL Goaltender of the Month for February.

Montoya garnered a 5-2-0 record with a 1.37 goals-against average, a .946 save percentage and one shutout on the month, allowing two goals or fewer in each of his seven starts.

After opening the month with a 2-1 loss to the defending Calder Cup champion Hershey Bears, Montoya won his next five decisions, beginning with a 3-0 win over Worcester on Feb. 16, his third shutout of the year. He stopped 31 shots in a 3-2 win over Providence on Feb. 17, then made 20 saves in a 6-1 win at Lowell on Feb. 23 and 22 more saves in a 5-1 win at Bridgeport on Feb. 25.

In recognition of his achievement, Montoya will be presented with an etched crystal award prior to an upcoming Wolf Pack home game.

[KB in Kelowna]

Beter late then never. he will be a future #1 somplace just not sure if it will be with the rangers.

source: http://theahl.com/news/league/index.html?article_id=7517
Don't try to confuse the argument with facts, if this guy's career has been declared over by Wildboy it is over :laughing:

[Mel]

Beter late then never. he will be a future #1 somplace just not sure if it will be with the rangers.

As it stands now - it really seems there is no room for Alvaro on Broadway. He appears groomed to become an NHL #1... however Lundqvist is already a proven NHL #1 who bounced back very strong from a shaky start to his sophomore season.

Put it this way - Montoya might or might not rise to greatness on the NHL level... regardless, many teams will take that risk in exchange for some real value. The Rangers do not have to take the risk on him, which is an enviable spot for Sather.

Barring unforseen demise to the bright future of Henrik Lundvist who is only a few years older... look for Montoya to be dealt, hopefully for some equally young and highly touted forward(s).

[Mel]

Don't try to confuse the argument with facts, if this guy's career has been declared over by Wildboy it is over :laughing:

lol

WB will be back I'm sure. :)

[krypt1968]

As it stands now - it really seems there is no room for Alvaro on Broadway. He appears groomed to become an NHL #1... however Lundqvist is already a proven NHL #1 who bounced back very strong from a shaky start to his sophomore season.

Put it this way - Montoya might or might not rise to greatness on the NHL level... regardless, many teams will take that risk in exchange for some real value. The Rangers do not have to take the risk on him, which is an enviable spot for Sather.

Barring unforseen demise to the bright future of Henrik Lundvist who is only a few years older... look for Montoya to be dealt, hopefully for some equally young and highly touted forward(s).


shaky start was from his migranes and blured vision he battled through it when he could of just folded and called it a sophmore jinx. on the other hand i would like to see montya get some time on the rangers so we really know what we have. eithier way sather and renney decides to go with the 25 year old hank or the 21 year old montoya there wont be room for one of them.

The asking price for lundqvist if it happened beter get us a bonafide 50 goal 100 point guy. maybe a kovalchuk and a draft pick. crazy for even thinking this i know.

The asking price for Montoya i would be happy with a 30 goal 80 point guy. a chris drury or darcy tucker like player not meaning them exactly but you know what i mean.

i just dont wana give eithier up really but if we do eithier way we make out big time.