View Full Version : Kesler signed to an offer sheet!
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177269&hubname=
BOOM!
Finally :)
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 5:14 PM
:curse:
Kesler isn't worth 1.9 million
bastid Clarke..get out of the league..bloody chimp
He's not.
Best quote I've read on this...
You notice Clarke picked the 'fat boy' to do this to rather than somebody liked within the fraternity? Not that business is ever 'presonal'. :D
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 7:01 PM
Best quote from a guy that can't even spell? :nod:
I'm not so sure that Nonis is disliked...
Remember, he's been in the league for awhile...
Also, lets not forget that Umberger plays for the Flyers..former teammate and good friend of Kesler
So...it does make sense in some way
Anyway..atleast we will get a 2nd round pick..and some cap room
KB in Kelowna
9-12-06, 9:13 PM
I didn't think the Flyers had the cap room. Way too much to pay for Kesler. Maybe Clarke will try to hire the Canuck's scouting staff with Umberger and Kesler he seems to like Canucks draft picks:rolleyes:
That's a lot of money for Kesler, and I doubt the Canucks will match the offer. At that price, I know that I'd take my chance with the second round pick... unfortunately. Then I'd keep a close eye on the Flyers and if they send someone through waivers or if they get in a similar situation, I'd be looking for retribution. Like my dad used to say, don't get mad, get even! :wicked:
The Canucks are matching.
:laughing:
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 9:45 PM
Its not official until the Fat Man Sings
Its not official until the Fat Man Sings
What if he squeals?
Like the guy in deliverance.
Bobby Clarke is the inbred guy having some fun.
"Nonis, Boy, I'm gonna make you SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL"
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 9:48 PM
What if he squeals?
Like the guy in deliverance.
Bobby Clarke is the inbred guy having some fun.
"Nonis, Boy, I'm gonna make you SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL"
:laughing:
I hope its wrong
The canucks cant afford kesler at 1.9 million..
The canucks cant afford kesler at 1.9 million..
All the more reason I can't wait to hear that he's a Canuck for over twice as much as he was about to be, and he'll screw them next year too.
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 9:59 PM
All the more reason I can't wait to hear that he's a Canuck for over twice as much as he was about to be, and he'll screw them next year too.
Why next year?
If they do match..he will have a hell of a season..and be playing on the top two lines
Otherwise, he will be kicked in the ass
Why next year?
If they do match..he will have a hell of a season..and be playing on the top two lines
Otherwise, he will be kicked in the ass
Well, you can't lowball your RFA, you have to offer him what he made the previous season.
All reports say Nonis was about to sign him for 825 year 1 and 875 year 2.
:)
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 10:04 PM
Well, you can't lowball your RFA, you have to offer him what he made the previous season.
All reports say Nonis was about to sign him for 825 year 1 and 875 year 2.
:)
Well..obviously people think this kid has something
Otherwise..why would Clarke want him at 1.9 million to replace Primeau?
Also, why was he the most inquired about Canuck, at the deadline?
Bob Gainey really was interested in kesler, and is a big fan
If he was merely a grinder, would this even be news?
TimmyTabasco
9-12-06, 10:46 PM
BTW..this sums it up well
If the agents were celebrating the possibility of GMs like Philadelphia's Bob Clarke playing cut-throat managing, and opening the door to more offers sheets, many other GMs were furious.
''I thought the DiPietro deal was the height of stupidity but this Kesler deal tops it,'' said one NHL GM. ''Does Clarkie actually think Vancouver isn't going to match? Every team will match. You have to. You have to protect your assets no matter what. All this is going to do is drive up the cost to do business. This is going to be ridiculously inflationary, even in the cap system we have. It's crazy.''
It should be pointed out the Flyers' GM didn't do anything he wasn't entitled to. There is a provision in the new CBA to make offer sheets with the compensation clearly spelled out. If Vancouver chooses not to match, the Canucks will receive Philadelphia's second-round pick in the 2007 NHL entry draft. Amid speculation that injured centre Keith Primeau won't be cleared for contact in time for the beginning of the Flyers' camp on Friday, and may not be able to play at all, Clarke was trying to bolster his team up the middle in the form of Kesler, a hard-driving 22-year-old two-way pivot who scored 10 goals and 23 points in 82 games for Vancouver last season.
But there's no question Clarke's brazen move will impact others, primarily the Canucks, but potentially every team in the NHL.
Here's how the impact will be felt.
In Vancouver, the Canucks presented Kesler with a qualifying offer of $564,000, which is what his base salary was for last season. Extending that offer to Kesler protected the Canucks' rights to the player. Kesler's agent Kurt Overhardt and Nonis have been negotiating a two-year that would pay Kesler $825,000 this season and $850,000 next season. By all accounts, that negotiation was close to being complete when the Flyer offer sheet materialized on Tuesday.
The Canucks have a seven-day period to match the offer or take the compensation in the form of the second-round draft pick. But if they match the offer, and there's seemingly no doubt that they will, they cannot trade Kesler for a period of one year and must pay him a salary of $1.9 million, which is more than double what they expected to.
But the impact league-wide could be significant.
If the Canucks want to hold onto Kesler at the end of this season, they must extend him a qualifying offer of $1.9 million. That qualifying offer can be used as a comparable by other Group 2 players who file for salary arbitration.
''So the going rate for a young 10-goal scorer in this league is going to $1.9 million,'' an NHL GM said. ''We're starting a whole new inflation spiral. It's going to cost every team in this league. It's bad for all us. It's really bad business.''
Another GM said he could understand the Flyers' offer sheet tactic if the Canucks were unable to fit Kesler's $1.9 million under the salary cap, but that apparently is not the case. Sources suggest Kesler's figure of $1.9 million will take Vancouver to $43 million for 22 players – that's $1 million under the cap and one player under the 23-man roster limit.
''This might inconvenience Vancouver a little bit but there was no chance Philadelphia was getting Kesler on the offer sheet, none at all and now we're all going to pay for it,'' the GM said.
Sources say Clarke tried to trade for Kesler earlier in the summer, but was rebuffed by Nonis. When a trade couldn't be worked out, sources said, Clarke suggested to Nonis he might tender an offer sheet, to which Nonis reportedly said he would match under any circumstances.
Not surprisingly, there is all sorts of talk of retribution. Other GMs say they can hardly wait for some of the talented young Flyers – Jeff Carter and Mike Richards, in particular – to become restricted free agents so other teams can make Clarke's life miserable with an offer sheet.
But one GM cautioned against that type of thinking.
''That is precisely how we all ended up in a financial mess before the lockout,'' the GM said. ''One team trying to stick it to another team. You would have thought we had learned our lessons.''
Source (http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177298&hubname=nhl)
Fanatical writing.
Notice there's GM quotes for everything, except the biggest line in the entire article?
Not surprisingly, there is all sorts of talk of retribution. Other GMs say they can hardly wait for some of the talented young Flyers – Jeff Carter and Mike Richards, in particular – to become restricted free agents so other teams can make Clarke's life miserable with an offer sheet.
Really? By who?
Fanatical writing.
How can we have a problem? Revenue and contracts are tied. If your team is dumb enough to sign a 10 goal scorer to a $2,000,000 contract... that's your problem.
charlio lemieux
9-12-06, 11:57 PM
Who else but Bobby Clarke, would start poaching RFA's and break the unspoken promise between GM's. :laughing: :no: :shrug: Like WTF?
Now that it is done, do the flood gates open? Do other unsigned RFA get offer sheets?
JFJ better get his arse in gear with signing Stajan.
Not surprisingly, there is all sorts of talk of retribution. Other GMs say they can hardly wait for some of the talented young Flyers – Jeff Carter and Mike Richards, in particular – to become restricted free agents so other teams can make Clarke's life miserable with an offer sheet.
Call me Nostradamus http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/respect.gif :laughing:
That's a lot of money for Kesler, and I doubt the Canucks will match the offer. At that price, I know that I'd take my chance with the second round pick... unfortunately. Then I'd keep a close eye on the Flyers and if they send someone through waivers or if they get in a similar situation, I'd be looking for retribution. Like my dad used to say, don't get mad, get even! :wicked:
KB in Kelowna
9-13-06, 12:11 PM
Call me Nostradamus http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/respect.gif :laughing:
I am confused Nostradmus, Asterix, JL what do we call you:shrug: :laughing: ;)
JFJ better get his arse in gear with signing Stajan.Don't worry, I have a feeling Matty will sign today sometime. ;)
TimmyTabasco
9-13-06, 3:46 PM
I just hope Nonis doesn't match this
Otherwise
-no backup depth
-no top six forward depth
-no wiggle room for the deadline
=slim playoff hopes
Fanatical Management! :thumb:
KB in Kelowna
9-13-06, 8:22 PM
I just hope Nonis doesn't match this
Otherwise
-no backup depth
-no top six forward depth
-no wiggle room for the deadline
=slim playoff hopes
Fanatical Management! :thumb:
Looks like he might: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177269&hubname=
What gets me is in the run up to the lockout, Clarke was interviewed bemaoning the escalation in slaraies, but a 10 goal scoring 3rd line center is worth $1.9 :shrug:Can you say hyporcrite?
I hope somebody offers Carter and Richards big bucks when they are RFA's.:burning:
Couple notes..
Salary escalation is irrelevant now, everyone is both capped and tied to revenue.
Kesler played the toughest minutes of any C in Vancouver last year, and remained an even. Doing that at 21, regardless of if you had Ohlund on the ice or not IS impressive.
Defensive ability and out-scoring at ES are vastly under-rated in the NHL right now (see: Radek Dvorak), a change where guys like this are appreciated wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
I hope somebody offers Carter and Richards big bucks when they are RFA's.:burning:
They will. Clarke will wind up paying through the nose to keep his young talent. I have to think any GM around the league who covets those guys and has the cap room will be more than happy to stick it to Clarke when the time comes.
It will probably be Charles Wang (I mean Garth Snow *ahem*) offering a 37 year $270 million contract to Carter and a 52 year $600 million contract to Richards.
:laughing:
If Clarke goes and signs either of them before June 30 he won't have any repercussions.
Not to mention, if he does, someone would have to make a big offer for him to not match. Philly simply isn't a very good target for a RFA raid right now.
Now NJ. NJ is a good target. Paul Martin and Brian Gionta practically have signs on their front door saying "SIGN ME! SIGN ME!"
They will. Clarke will wind up paying through the nose to keep his young talent. I have to think any GM around the league who covets those guys and has the cap room will be more than happy to stick it to Clarke when the time comes.
My thoughts exactly. Some GMs came out steeming after what Clarke did... not as much because he signed Kesler to an offersheet, but because of the amount offered to the guy! I'm a strong beleiver that what goes around comes around and someone (could be Wang :laughing: ) will get Clarke back for doing that.
KB in Kelowna
9-13-06, 10:52 PM
Clarke's defence or reasoning for the Kesler offer sheet, is that he needs to repalce Primeau. If Nonis had offered Kesler for Primeau back when the later was healthy would that deal have been made? One can argue potential of youngster like Kesler, but $1.9 million for 10 goals and an even +/- rating.
Leafs_Fa_Life
9-13-06, 11:08 PM
Tell it like it is Bobby (http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177368&hubname=)
KB in Kelowna
9-13-06, 11:14 PM
Tell it like it is Bobby (http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177368&hubname=)"A lot of guys in this league like the rules when it suits them and they don't like them when it doesn't. Too bad for them. I'm just playing by the rules that are there. To be honest, I'm surprised more teams aren't doing it.”
Pot calling kettle as my old granny used to say. I have heard Clarke bemoan the escalation of player salaries before the last lock out, all the while being one of the worst abusers of the old system. Even today he whines about the Wild signing free agent Kim Johhnson(sic). He has driven up the price of third line 10 goal scorers who go to arbitration. He claims he needs to replace Primeau, but if someone had suggested that Ryan Kessler as a replacement for a healthy Primeau before this week, they would have been laughed at or worse. I can't wait for a Doug McLean or Don Waddel or someone with cap room to pull a stunt tlike this when Carter and Richards are RFA's, and don't tell me their asking price won't be going up when they compare their stats to Kesler's. One more example of Booby Clarke doing what he wants and who cares what the rest of the league thinks. Not quite as classless as havng the crook Eagleson in your box at games but it does smell.
TimmyTabasco
9-13-06, 11:27 PM
Pot calling kettle as my old granny used to say. I have heard Clarke bemoan the escalation of player salaries before the last lock out, all the while being one of the worst abusers of the old system. Even today he whines about the Wild signing free agent Kim Johhnson(sic). He has driven up the price of third line 10 goal scorers who go to arbitration. He claims he needs to replace Primeau, but if someone had suggested that Ryan Kessler as a replacement for a healthy Primeau before this week, they would have been laughed at or worse. I can't wait for a Doug McLean or Don Waddel or someone with cap room to pull a stunt tlike this when Carter and Richards are RFA's, and don't tell me their asking price won't be going up when they compare their stats to Kesler's. One more example of Booby Clarke doing what he wants and who cares what the rest of the league thinks. Not quite as classless as havng the crook Eagleson in your box at games but it does smell.
Well said
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
9-14-06, 2:59 AM
I find it kinda funny that people think other GMs are gonna try to get back at Clarke. Remember that Clarke has to pay a price besides 1.9 for Kesler. He gives up that 2nd rounder. When Carter and Richards become RFAs no one is going to attempt to drive up the price simply because they won't be willing to give up 4 first round picks or 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd.
Leafs_Fa_Life
9-14-06, 5:05 PM
I don't think Bobby was whining about losing Kim, KB. He was just using it as an example of how some rules in the CBA seem to be looked on in a good light by people, while signing another teams player to an offer sheet is looked upon as almost being criminal. In both situations (Minny and Philly) the teams were working within the framework of the CBA, but Clarke gets blasted for his move.
I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but I'm sure there's other third liners in the league making around 2 million a season. Also, with a hard cap in place I don't see how the move will further inflate salaries. With only 44 million to fill out your roster, it'll get to the point where players just might price themselves outta the market and they'll have to lower their demands to fit into a team's payroll.
With the way arbitration works now, teams can always try to lower a players salary the summer after a bad season. So if Kesler bombs then he probably won't make 1.9 million next season. However, if for 1.9 million this year he plays against opposing teams' best line, kills penalties, and chips in with some half decent offense then it'll be money well spent.
btw, if a team does come along with a big offer sheet for Richards or Carter I'm sure the Flyers wouldn't be against 4 first round draft picks in return.
I guess the Canucks found some cap room...
Canucks match Kesler offer
Canadian Press
9/14/2006 8:10:58 PM
VANCOUVER (CP) - The Vancouver Canucks are going to be paying Ryan Kesler top dollar after all.
The Canucks matched Kesler's offer sheet and re-signed the centre to a new contract Thursday after the Philadelphia Flyers extended a US$1.9-million offer to the 22-year-old on Tuesday.
Vancouver had hoped to re-sign the restricted free agent for much less money. They had reportedly been trying to negotiate for roughly half the amount Kesler will now be paid.
It was the first offer sheet signed by a player since 1999. The Canucks had a week to choose whether to match the offer or receive a second-round draft pick, but took just two days to make the decision.
Technically, the last official offer sheet before Tuesday was in July 1999 when Tampa Bay made an offer for little-known Oiler Brett Hauer. Edmonton matched it.
Full article... (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=177497&hubname=)
TimmyTabasco
9-15-06, 4:41 AM
I'm not happy about this, but then I havent been happy since that jackass offered Kesler the deal.
Anyway, what can you do..Nonis accepted..
So, now Kesler has to earn that money
Nas-Mo-Kesler
I'm not sure Cooke will be traded..we need his grit
With the way arbitration works now, teams can always try to lower a players salary the summer after a bad season. So if Kesler bombs then he probably won't make 1.9 million next season. However, if for 1.9 million this year he plays against opposing teams' best line, kills penalties, and chips in with some half decent offense then it'll be money well spent.
I did some research on Kesler's stats last year, and he led all Canucks forwards in blocked shots, and was second to only Morrison in takeaways. That doesn't mean he's worth 1.9 million just for that, but if Cooke is being kept around for things he does other than score, and is making 1.5 million, is it really that much of a stretch for Kesler to make 1.9 million?
And on the subject of expensive third liners, some would consider Madden and Brylin on the Devils as third liners, and they're making a combined 4.4 million this year. Not every player's value can be judged purely on offensive stats, and I think Kesler might be one of those players. Does it mean he's worth 1.9 million this year? Not necessarily, but there have been worse contracts signed this offseason (or last).
TimmyTabasco
9-17-06, 2:05 AM
Next time Nonis should kick Clarke down the stairs :thumb:
Next time Nonis should kick Clarke down the stairs :thumb:
Next time, Nonis should keep a close eye on any move the Flyers make, particularly when Carter and Richards are negotiating contracts. :thumb:
Next time, Nonis should keep a close eye on any move the Flyers make, particularly when Carter and Richards are negotiating contracts. :thumb:
I don't know if Nonis would have the balls to do anything. We all know he has the gut, but the cojones, I don't think so.
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
9-17-06, 8:33 PM
Next time, Nonis should keep a close eye on any move the Flyers make, particularly when Carter and Richards are negotiating contracts. :thumb:
Nonis or any other GM will make any kind of offer to Carter or Richards when they are RFAs.
Canucklehead
9-17-06, 8:55 PM
Next time, Nonis should keep a close eye on any move the Flyers make, particularly when Carter and Richards are negotiating contracts. :thumb:
Thus creating a rivalry between two teams who don't even play each other. Really, if Nonis wants to learn from this and stir the pot next year, he should look a bit closer to home.
Clarke made a good move and I'd love to see more of that from other GM's. Especially Nonis.
KB in Kelowna
9-17-06, 9:48 PM
.
Clarke made a good move and I'd love to see more of that from other GM's. Especially Nonis.
Ok so Clarke took a risk, but to basically make an offer that is 3x what Kesler made last season for a not exactly stellar offensive output does not make sense. Given the intelligence of some of the hockey arbitrators Kesler's contract becomes a bench mark, as a Canuck's fan and hoceky fan I hope he has a good season, becasue the price of mediocrity may just end up higher.
Canucklehead
9-17-06, 10:31 PM
Ok so Clarke took a risk, but to basically make an offer that is 3x what Kesler made last season for a not exactly stellar offensive output does not make sense. Given the intelligence of some of the hockey arbitrators Kesler's contract becomes a bench mark, as a Canuck's fan and hoceky fan I hope he has a good season, becasue the price of mediocrity may just end up higher.
As a Canucks fan I'm hoping for a good season; as a hockey fan I couldn't care less. Maybe I'm just dense, but I can't understand how this contract is going to so badly hurt a system where Martin Havlat makes 18 million over 3 years. Kesler makes more money than he should, but arbitrators have already handed out deals worse than the one he received.
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
9-17-06, 11:24 PM
If any arbitrator gives another purely offensive player what Kesler got for similar production, the team can just walk away. If he is really that overpaid, why didn't Nonis just take the pick and walkaway? Why is only Bobby Clarke getting all this grief because he offered a guy a contract and the Canucks screwed themselves capwise by signing him to that salary? Is Kesler that awful at defense that people only quote his offense as a reason he was overpaid? Is he a one way 10 goal scorer with no defensive game, or is he(as PDO and MD pointed out) a young 10 goal scorer that can play some good defense? These questions need to be answered but people would much rather just lay the blame at the evil Bobby Clarke's feet.
Thus creating a rivalry between two teams who don't even play each other. Really, if Nonis wants to learn from this and stir the pot next year, he should look a bit closer to home.
Clarke made a good move and I'd love to see more of that from other GM's. Especially Nonis.
I'm not blaming Clarke for signing Kesler to an offer sheet one bit, but as KB mentioned, it's the price of the offer sheet that's very questionable. I'm still standing by my quote that I'd keep a close eye on what Philladelphia does as far as waivers and/or RFA is concerned, as retribution would definately be sweet!
butterfly_style
9-18-06, 8:50 AM
. . . but people would much rather just lay the blame at the evil Bobby Clarke's feet.
Yeah, what's your point ?
Everyone hates Darcy Tucker, Sean Avery and Bobby Clarke . . .and the universe unfolds as it should.
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
9-19-06, 2:57 AM
Yeah, what's your point ?
Everyone hates Darcy Tucker, Sean Avery and Bobby Clarke . . .and the universe unfolds as it should.
I don't care if anyone hates them, but when they can't look at anything objectively, it gets kind of annoying.
KB in Kelowna
9-19-06, 12:36 PM
I don't care if anyone hates them, but when they can't look at anything objectively, it gets kind of annoying.
Sorry, it is not the fact he tendered an offer sheet, but the amount of the offer being out of whack with what a player of similar talent/potential/production/expereince however you want to frame it, would recieve under"normal" circumstances. This coupled with the whining from Clarke about salaries spiralling up prior to the last lock out, and the Flyers being amongst the worst offenders, perhaps you can see why some of us are not so enamoured of the man.
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