Rangers should trade Montoya

[Mel]

Now I know, the second that Montoya gets traded away for a player even slightly older than him, all hell will break loose and people will be crying "same old Rangers". But I think Sather, Renney and friends should not let their newly discovered "build from within" philosophy cloud their sense of what is reasonable.

There are several reasons New York should seriously consider dealing Montoya sooner than later.

1) Henrik Lundqvist. At just 23 of age he had Vezina consideration (although I think that nod was a sympathy move for being squeezed out of the Calder race - I don't think he had a Vezina season). But he won the gold. He won New York city fans. He is the man. Unless his fortunes turn for the worst, Montoya has very little hope of ever winning the #1 job away from Lundqvist in the forseeable future.

2) Montoya's trade value has nowhere to go but down.... that is unless he gets a good amount of NHL time and shines when he gets it. 2 big IF's. In his first professional season, Montoya was an AHL all-star and a stand-out goalie. If the Rangers intend to keep him in Hartford... for all intents and purposes, the only good that can happen is that he keeps his value where it is with continued good play, but the downside risk is large.

3) Injury prone? This kid got injured at least 4 times this past season including the playoffs when he was needed most. It's too early to say if he's injury prone or not, but if a few years pass and he gets a reputation as being a constant injury risk, he's less desirable to other teams.

So what could he fetch? I'm not going crazy thinking he could return any big names or established valuable veterans... but I have to think he can easily return a prospect equal to his caliber at another position.

If he's not in the plans, trade him now.

[Madferret]

Is Weekes signed for next year?

[Mel]

Is Weekes signed for next year?
far as I know yes.

[wildboy26]

I agree. Lundqvist is the future of the Rangers organization, and Montoya will never be more than an NHL backup in the future, if even that. Montoya is only 4th on the depth chart of the Rangers organization behind Lundqvist, Weekes, and Holt probably. Unless Weekes is traded I expect he will backup Holt in Hartford after Holt`s outstanding AHL playoff performance even though they did not go all the way in the end; so as an AHL backup his stock would drop even lower. He is a long way from even playing in the NHL. Good to trade him now if you can get something for him.

[Mel]

I agree. Lundqvist is the future of the Rangers organization, and Montoya will never be more than an NHL backup in the future, if even that. Montoya is only 4th on the depth chart of the Rangers organization behind Lundqvist, Weekes, and Holt probably. Unless Weekes is traded I expect he will backup Holt in Hartford after Holt`s outstanding AHL playoff performance even though they did not go all the way in the end; so as an AHL backup his stock would drop even lower. He is a long way from even playing in the NHL. Good to trade him now if you can get something for him.

well wildboy, you're disdain for Montoya is legendary by now, so I knew you'd love the idea. :)

However we agree for very different reasons. You think he should be traded because he sucks (in your estimation). You're of course entitled to your opinion... but pretty much every one else in the hockey world considers Montoya a top goal tending prospect.

If I'm a Ranger brass guy, I stop and think about the future and what the arrival of Henrik Lundqvist means to Montoya's role in the organization.

I admit though I am jumping the gun... there was a goaltender who won the Calder in 2004 and now nobody can even remember his name. So maybe give it one more year, to see how Henrik fares in his sophomore campaign, if all goes well it's time to cash in on young Alvaro to address other needs on this team, like defense.

I have faith in Lundqvist... he has done nothing but shine in the past few years. He absolutely rocked in Sweden during the lockout, He does look like the real deal. The team admittedly has better confidence with him in net and he is a huge fan favorite. (that does cross the minds of Renney and Sather). He's a guy it looks like they can build a champion around.

Which means Montoya is not in the picture UNLESS Montoya would be content to back up Lundqvist's backup. But he won't. No 20 year old with an ounce of competitive spirit would accept being pinned as a career backup. My guess is Montoya starts making noise about a trade if he plays one more all-star year in Hartford. He wants to play in the NHL as a #1.

[PDO]

Just for curiosities sake.. Pouliot for Montoya, straight up, what would you think of that Mel? Pouliot looks like he'll be a solid #2 C in coming years, great play-maker.

Oilers are knee-deep in centers between some great prospects in Schremp, Pouliot and Cogliano and two young(er) studs in Horcoff and Stoll, so it'd be trading from a position of strength.

Of course, we have Dubnyk coming up and no AHL team, so I can't see it coming. God we need an AHL team. :burning:

[Amoroq]

If the Leafs didn't have 2 top notch goalie prospects In Rask and Pogge, I'd be all over Leaf management to try and make a deal. But I have a feeling, the Rags would want too much and the Leafs aren't in a position to trade away any prospects. They are weak in every prospect department except net.

Given the chance I think Montoya will be a #1.

[KB in Kelowna]

Of course, we have Dubnyk coming up and no AHL team, so I can't see it coming. God we need an AHL team. :burning:

Sorry for going off topic, but there was rumour that Victoria BC would get an AHL franchise, they currectly have a ECHL one, this would become the Canucks main farm team and Edmonton would get the Manitoba Moose. The evidence is that the manager of the Kelowna arena Prospera Place was moved to Victoria by RG Properties which owns the Save -On-Foods arean the rink in Victoria. It was only local in Kelowna scuttlebut, but I thought I would share to see if anyone else had heard this.

[PDO]

Sorry for going off topic, but there was rumour that Victoria BC would get an AHL franchise, they currectly have a ECHL one, this would become the Canucks main farm team and Edmonton would get the Manitoba Moose. The evidence is that the manager of the Kelowna arena Prospera Place was moved to Victoria by RG Properties which owns the Save -On-Foods arean the rink in Victoria. It was only local in Kelowna scuttlebut, but I thought I would share to see if anyone else had heard this.

I've heard that.. and man, I'm hanging on a prayer for that. We have a lot of prospects that need some good, solid development. It'd be nice to have full control of their future.. atleast more than we currently have.

[KB in Kelowna]

I've heard that.. and man, I'm hanging on a prayer for that. We have a lot of prospects that need some good, solid development. It'd be nice to have full control of their future.. atleast more than we currently have.

Makes sense to try to have the farm team close to keep an eye on the prospects. I mean the Rangers have the Wolfpack in Hartford Con, so it is a short trip up there to see the team for them, just to get this back on topic.

[Amoroq]

Makes sense to try to have the farm team close to keep an eye on the prospects. I mean the Rangers have the Wolfpack in Hartford Con, so it is a short trip up there to see the team for them, just to get this back on topic.Where the heck were you when NJ was placing my head on a pike when MLSE moved the team to Toronto? :slant: ;)

Mel, how confortable would you be with Montoya as the starter if god forbid, Lundqvist goes down with a career injury?

[KB in Kelowna]

:laughing: Where the heck were you when NJ was placing my head on a pike when MLSE moved the team to Toronto? :slant: ;)

Mel, how confortable would you be with Montoya as the starter if god forbid, Lundqvist goes down with a career injury?
What and deny NJ to wiave the flag of Newfie nationalismand denegrate the business dealings of MLSE;) .

Besides don't the Rags have aguy named Holt on depth chart if Lundqvist goes down?:wicked:

[Mel]

Where the heck were you when NJ was placing my head on a pike when MLSE moved the team to Toronto? :slant: ;)

Mel, how confortable would you be with Montoya as the starter if god forbid, Lundqvist goes down with a career injury?

I'd be very comfortable at least giving him a good long shot at establishing himselft as Rangers #1.

But only if Lundqvist dissappeared.

If Lundqvist sticks, Montoya is trade bait. He knows damn well he'll at least get a real chance in the NHL. If he's not gonna get that with the Rangers, he should be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

He MIGHT be a GT you could build a franchise around. It's a gamble for sure. But if he tanks in the AHL and the Rags just hang on for a few years... he'll be useless. Like watching a stock you own drop in price .

If they trade him within the next year for the right price, it could turn out to be a very savvy move... or it could be disasterous. Too many variables to speculate.

But holding him just for the sake of holding him IMO is not a good strategy.

[wildboy26]

I was dissapointed a bit in Lundqvist in the playoffs, but would make no judgements of his ability based on that one series, that is only one series in possably 30 or more playoffs series he will play in his career. Anyway he was just coming off an injury so maybe that affected him, plus NJ was red hot, and did a much better job screening in front of him then NY was able to do in front of Brodeur, really difficult screens, crowded the goal crease too and got alot of garbage goals which are hard to stop.

They should trade Montoya right now rather then wait a year. His stock will fall even more as Holt's backup in the AHL next year. Holt played wonderfuly after stepping in for Montoya after he was injured in the AHL playoffs, posting much better stats then he had during his regular season in the ECHL most of the year. That shows he has now "come into his own", by posting much better stats in the AHL playoffs as a fill in, then he had during even the ECHL. Plus he is not injury prone like Montoya who has had 3 major injuries this year. They obviously will have to reward for him for that by making him the Hartford starter. Of course if Weekes is traded Holt will be the Rangers backup and Montoya will have a chance to repeat as an AHL all star.

By the way I dont think Montoya sucks. He is a very good young goalie but he simply is unlucky to be in organization that has far too much depth in goal and he gets squeezed out.

[Mel]

Holt did do pretty well covering for Montoya in the playoffs, posting a 2.96 GAA .912 SV% over 8 games. I'll give him credit for stepping it up after a mostly disappointing season in the ECHL.

However, his numbers still pale in comparison to Montoya's numbers pre-injury

1.87 GAA, .932 SV% over 5 games.

[wildboy26]

Holt did do pretty well covering for Montoya in the playoffs, posting a 2.96 GAA .912 SV% over 8 games. I'll give him credit for stepping it up after a mostly disappointing season in the ECHL.

However, his numbers still pale in comparison to Montoya's numbers pre-injury

1.87 GAA, .932 SV% over 5 games.

Yeah but as the playoffs go on you play tougher opposition, just like in the NHL playoffs. Goalies typicaly(not always but usually)see their numbers regress as the playoffs go along.

[PDO]

Yeah but as the playoffs go on you play tougher opposition, just like in the NHL playoffs. Goalies typicaly(not always but usually)see their numbers regress as the playoffs go along.

Should I even bother pointing out that the 4 goalies remaining in the NHL playoffs are 1, 3, 6 and 7 in SV%?

[wildboy26]

Should I even bother pointing out that the 4 goalies remaining in the NHL playoffs are 1, 3, 6 and 7 in SV%?

Your point being? They were near the top to begin with, so that does not mean they are neccessarily moving up in SV% just because they are pretty high now. In fact Bryzgalov and Ward are examples of ones going far down this round stats-wise.

[Mel]

Your point being? They were near the top to begin with, so that does not mean they are neccessarily moving up in SV% just because they are pretty high now. In fact Bryzgalov and Ward are examples of ones going far down this round stats-wise.

so you saying Montoya's numbers would have gotten worse if he went further into the playoffs?

Don't you think it's kinda ridiculous to criticize a player for something he didn't do?

[wildboy26]

so you saying Montoya's numbers would have gotten worse if he went further into the playoffs?

Don't you think it's kinda ridiculous to criticize a player for something he didn't do?

I am not saying they would have but they could have. Dont you agree it is more likely to have higher numbers earlier in the playoffs, and as the competition gets tougher with each round the likelihood of your stats degressing increase?

Also dont you think Holt would feel emotionaly crushed if he were only a backup at Hartford after stepping in and playing so well in the playoffs for the team?

[Mel]

I am not saying they would have but they could have. Dont you agree it is more likely to have higher numbers earlier in the playoffs, and as the competition gets tougher with each round the likelihood of your stats degressing increase?

It can happen. It does not happen with necessity. Speculations and probabilities can in no way be used to diminish a players performance, again it's penalizing them for something they did not do. It doesn't hold water.

And if you want to start skewing numbers, then don't forget to factor in the Rangers were still playing when Montoya was dominating. Holt benefitted from the Rangers elimination and the return of Pock and Immonen for the majority of his playoff run, so even if the competition was better, he had a better team in front of him than Montoya.

Also dont you think Holt would feel emotionaly crushed if he were only a backup at Hartford after stepping in and playing so well in the playoffs for the team?

If he's that easily crushed, he's in the wrong business.

Remember he spent most of this season in the ECHL, and his numbers were not even good down there. Nobody can read the future, but I think Holt's only hope of the wolf pack #1 job, is directly related to Montoya sticking in the NHL. I'm not sure how likely that is for next season.

[wildboy26]

Well some Ranger fans have told me Weekes might be traded, not because they are unhappy with him as backup, on the contrary he is a potential starter on alot of teams and a luxury to have as backup probably(although this year was not one of his better ones)but instead he is making too much to be a backup and would also request going somewhere else.

If that is the case wouldnt one of Montoya or Holt be brought up(hopefully Holt).

[Mel]

Well some Ranger fans have told me Weekes might be traded, not because they are unhappy with him as backup, on the contrary he is a potential starter on alot of teams and a luxury to have as backup probably(although this year was not one of his better ones)but instead he is making too much to be a backup and would also request going somewhere else.

If that is the case wouldnt one of Montoya or Holt be brought up(hopefully Holt).

If Weekes gets traded, they might promote somebody from the minors. But it's not a lock for that to happen. They may instead seek to bring in an established veteran to serve as the #2 goalie.

Personally I'd like Weekes to stick around. He's pretty much all you could ask for in a veteran backup goalie. The guy can play, he's poised and he's got a great attitude. However if he wants to go somewhere else to be #1 that's completely understandable.

He is not cheap either, I think he makes around 2 mill. Remember, the Rangers originally signed him to be a #1. Lundqvist stole the job away it seems, so the trade rumors could be right on.

[krypt1968]

geezzz my first post here and its about montoya. well earlier on in the season i was in favor of trading montoya but after seeing weekes inconsistint play. i think it be best for the rangers to get rid of him. it may be hard to find a taker for him but if they do i say bring up montoya let him go 1 in every 3 games about 30 games for him and let Lundquist go the rest. look at what happened to lundquist down the stretch he got hurt and was overworked. he came from a league with a shorter season. we know henriks capabilities. :thumb:

[wildboy26]

Would Montoya's trade value be higher as a potential AHL all-star again, or as an NHL backup? I guess that is the question they would ask themselves before bringing him up or not if Weekes did get traded.

[krypt1968]

Would Montoya's trade value be higher as a potential AHL all-star again, or as an NHL backup? I guess that is the question they would ask themselves before bringing him up or not if Weekes did get traded.

i would not look at trade value. with todays salary cap a great goalie can cost alot. even a good backup will cost you. the fact the rangers have lundquist and montoya can only be a plus to them as they can use money saved from not having an exspensive goalie on other parts of the team like a bonafide #1 defensmen and a star forward for the 2nd line. even with montoya as a backup he could still see as many as 30 games in this role. now lets say if he won 18 to 20 of them and you did explore his trade value i think it would be rather higher on the NHL level then that of lets say a 30-15 record down at hartford.

[wildboy26]

How much does Weekes make next year? I thought it was $2-million is that right? if so you would save alot by bringing Montoya up I guess, and if you help his trade stock, not hurt it, if that is what they are considering that is also a good thing.

The thing I find intersting is some Ranger fans saying Weekes is even too weak to be their backup goalie. I find that a bit harsh, Weekes was a starting goalie for several years, a fairly good one, he is certainly better and more qualified then the vast majority of backups in the league. He is compared to Henrick who stole the starting job out from under him, and Henrick makes him look pretty shaky by comparision I guess. Plus he didnt have one of his better years when he did play this year, he had alot more bad games it seems, atleast per ratio of games played, then other years.

[krypt1968]

How much does Weekes make next year? I thought it was $2-million is that right? if so you would save alot by bringing Montoya up I guess, and if you help his trade stock, not hurt it, if that is what they are considering that is also a good thing.

The thing I find intersting is some Ranger fans saying Weekes is even too weak to be their backup goalie. I find that a bit harsh, Weekes was a starting goalie for several years, a fairly good one, he is certainly better and more qualified then the vast majority of backups in the league. He is compared to Henrick who stole the starting job out from under him, and Henrick makes him look pretty shaky by comparision I guess. Plus he didnt have one of his better years when he did play this year, he had alot more bad games it seems, atleast per ratio of games played, then other years.

I agree with most of the fans about weekes as a weak backup. he is not a backup goalie. he is one that plays beter as a starter if you look at his GAA as a starter you will see he has excelled beter then that of when he is a backup. he just needs a team willing to make him be a starter and he will be ok.

Some goalies flop when they become backups after having solid careers as the #1 for there respective teams.