Noronen or Cloutier? [Archive] - Hockey Station Forums

KB in Kelowna

3-12-06, 4:26 PM

Which one will be the starting goalie if Cloutier comes back before Vancouver is eliminated from the playoffs(or wins the Cup)? Will be sad to see Auld sent to the minors after becoming the #1 goalie but that is life sometimes.

Why would Auld be sent to the minors? I think you will see Dan Cloutier down there for a conditioning stint first. Auld needs a rest, but he is not bound for Manitoba. However if the Morrison-Bertuzzi-Naslund combo does not start producing points the whole arguement is moot and not just senseless and useless as the premise of yours is.

wildboy26

3-12-06, 5:26 PM

KB in Kelowna

3-12-06, 6:19 PM

Auld will be sent to the minors since they would not bring Noronen in to have him return to being a #3 goalie like he was in Buffalo, and Cloutier has always been high in management's eyes, he would have been out of town long ago otherwise with his playoff collapses.

Do you live for conspiracy theories? You seem to always be talking about roster controveries that don't exist except in the dark recesses of your imagination. Most Canuck fans have been calling for Cloutier's removal from the roster for about 2 and half seasons. He may win 30 games a year but there are a lot of ugly wins and he always fall short come playoff time, or has a history of injuries. Many of us were very disappointed when Nonis reupped him for 2 years at $2 million plus a season last summer. Auld surprised us this year by his strong play, I for one did not expect much from him as he was #2 behind Wade Flaherty last year in Manitoba. Flaherty is a career backup at the NHL level who has made a nice living as an AHL goaltender. Unless you are privy to the workings of the management of the Canucks, baring injury Alex Auld is the #1 goal tender, with Noronen seeing some ice time between now and the end of the season as the team brain trust has more faith in him than Maxime Ouellete. Dan Cloutier has finally began skating after his knee surgery but is not in game shape and probably won't be for several weeks. again baring injury he won't displace Noronen nor Auld in the line up. Expect Cloutier to be traded or moved through other means this summer if Auld/Noronen has any success in the playoffs.

Now I suppose you will start a thread saying Ouellete should demand a trade after being disrespected by the Canucks for trading for Noronen?

wildboy26

3-12-06, 6:56 PM

You say that fans in Vancouver think this and that, but then you also say fans wanted Cloutier gone this summer yet he was signed to a 2-year deal over the summer. Obviously what fans have wanted in Vancouver has not meshed with what management has thought in the past, when it comes to Cloutier, so there is no reason to just assume that will change now.

KB in Kelowna

3-12-06, 9:27 PM

You still haven't given any valid reason to say why Auld will be sent to the minors. Come the playoffs teams are not paying players as salaries are for the regular season only, so the Canucks could carry three goalies and most likely one will be in the press box, not in the minors. It is reasonable to assume that Auld will have over 30 wins by season's end why would he go down? Noronen will be his back up, if he preforms to expectations why would he go down? Cloutier will be back form knee surgery, he might be down for conditioning, but as there isn't a salary cap situation during the playoffs he may well be with the team when the playoffs start. Sorry that this is so difficult for you.

TimmyTabasco

3-13-06, 7:25 PM

Auld wont be sent to the minors

This makes no sense at all

In reality, the new tandem is Auld/Noronen..

Cloutier is as good as finished in Vancouver

MadDevil

3-14-06, 3:42 AM

Auld has earned his chance to be #1 for the Canucks. If he fails, then Noronen can step in. But I think with all the games Auld has played, and the fact that he's played pretty well in most of the games means he deserves the opportunity to be the starter in the playoffs.

Cloutier is as good as done in Vancouver, like Timmy said.:D

wildboy26

3-15-06, 4:37 PM

KB in Kelowna

3-15-06, 5:00 PM

How many times have Vancouverites said Dan is as good as done in Vancouver, and ended up wringing their hands when the GM and coach decide otherwise and he has another contract extension? Many many times. That explains perfectly why him being the odd man out when he returns is not my first assumption.
Cloutier is not due back until April. The season is ending then and as of this posting the Canucks post season is doubtful. Your presumption that Auld is bound for the minors is false. A goalie might watch what ever hockey happens from the press box but again none of the goalies is bound for the minors. If the team does not have a very good playoff run Nonis will have no choice but to tinker with core of the team abd hence I predict that Cloutier will not be on the roster for 2006/07. That is more certain than your prediction of Auld to the minors.

KB in Kelowna

3-18-06, 3:39 PM

wildboy26

3-18-06, 9:46 PM

Just one more thing Wildboy, I wonder what your take on the Turek vs Kiprasof situation in Calgary in 03/04 would have been? Not saying Auld is as good as Kipper but would you have advocated Kipper's return to Omaha when Turek had finished his injury rehab?

No way would I have done that. Kiprusoff was far better than Turek ever was so Kiprusoff was the obvious starter even when Turek came back. However as you said Auld is not Kiprusoff, and you have to admit the Vancouver management has shown an inflated opinion of Cloutier in the past.

KB in Kelowna

3-18-06, 9:55 PM

I agree that the Vancouver management has had an inflated opinion of Cloutier, however Brian Burke who has a hard time acknowledging mistakes is gone, Crawford has mishandled nearly every back up tender the team has had in the past 5 years. If the team does not have a good play off run expect major changes. This core group has been together for 5 seasons and has not produced save for a 7 game victory over a flu riddled Blues team in 2002. If the team gets into the playoffs they will go with the goalie that got them there, baring injuries. Your original premise that some one would go to the minors is a nonstarter as I have pointed out to you several times. The Calgary example I cited was a challenge to you to stop going off half cocked with bold assumptions you have not researched or thought out.

wildboy26

3-20-06, 5:26 PM

I agree that if Vancouver does not make a run of some kind in the playoffs the core group of the team is shaken up. I think all teams want to try and win a Cup with the core group they have had for awhile. Phillly waited until the 03-04 season to try and do it with the same core group for a number of years, and when it did not happen although they came very close, that core group was shaken up for good.

TimmyTabasco

3-25-06, 3:21 PM

Again, what makes you an expert on the Vancouver Canucks?

I'm not trying to be a prick..just wanting to know where you get your knowledge from ;)

Noronen will be the future for the Canucks. This guy is going to be very good.

If Noronen had the chance that Auld has had, he would be a top goalie in this league

Mark my words :thumb:

wildboy26

3-26-06, 9:34 PM

I hope the Canucks do dump Cloutier. I am sick of him. Noronen deserves more of a chance, and Auld deserves to keep his starting job for now.

KB in Kelowna

3-26-06, 9:55 PM

I hope the Canucks do dump Cloutier. I am sick of him. Noronen deserves more of a chance, and Auld deserves to keep his starting job for now.

You still haven't expalined how you reached the conclusion that Auld was bound for Winnipeg! Or do you concede you were a little hasty in drawing that conclusion?

wildboy26

3-26-06, 10:30 PM

You still haven't expalined how you reached the conclusion that Auld was bound for Winnipeg! Or do you concede you were a little hasty in drawing that conclusion?

Actually I explained my view, even though you disagree with it. I explained that Canucks management and head coach have in the past shown great confidence in Cloutier, and held him in very high regard even when he did not deserve it(something you conceded to a point was true), and I did not think the former GM being gone changed things that much in that respect(again you could disagree, but that was my view). Also I did not believe they would be bring Noronen in to be a 3rd string goalie since that is the reason he was shipped out of Buffalo anyway, that he would not be put in that position again. That is why I believed Auld would be the odd man out of the 3 once Cloutier returns.

TimmyTabasco

3-27-06, 12:39 AM

Right now, Auld has earned the starters job

He has played well

However, Noronen also has a lot of potential. I think he can be even better than Auld, or atleast push Auld. He was never really given a chance, and now he has that chance

Healthy competition is always a good thing

Cloutier is done in Vancouver. Nonis didn't seem happy with all Cloutiers injuries.

wildboy26

3-28-06, 2:10 PM

TimmyTabasco

3-31-06, 2:43 PM

Noronen was never really given a real chance chance in Buffalo. He is unlucky that Miller has so much potential as well, so you had two goalies who had the potential to be the teams future, and they had to make a choice between him and Miller as their future and they choice Miller. Biron is a solid veteran, who can start in the NHL, who they decided to keep around as a backup.

I wouldn't call Biron a solid veteran. At this point in his career, he's a solid backup. I'd even say, Cloutier is better :thumb:

But yeah, I agree on Noronen. The Canucks landed a blue chip prospect. This guy could do wonders next season. Finally, we have a crooked finn :D

wildboy26

3-31-06, 3:02 PM

I wouldn't call Biron a solid veteran. At this point in his career, he's a solid backup. I'd even say, Cloutier is better :thumb:

But yeah, I agree on Noronen. The Canucks landed a blue chip prospect. This guy could do wonders next season. Finally, we have a crooked finn :D

I dont find Biron that good, but he has been an NHL starter for a number of years which is why I respectfully called him a solid veteran and a potential starter, and didnt he have an 11-game winning streak earlier this year? I had heard he started the year demoted to the #3 in Buffalo(Biron I mean)but that hot win streak bumped him up to the #2 on the depth chart, and bumped Noronen to #3 from #2 to start the year when all returned from injury, hence he was the guy to be let go. Actually if you were #3 in Buffalo you were probably the lucky one since you got to get out and not be stuck behind Miller permenantly.

I look forward to seeing Noronen play more often, and hope he does. It would be great to see him and Auld fight for the starting job next year.

TimmyTabasco

4-16-06, 2:35 PM

KB in Kelowna

4-16-06, 2:55 PM

Noronen started last night, and played very well

Remember, he hasn't played alot..

The future looks bright for the Canucks goaltending

Auld/Noronen? Not too bad at all..especially if Noronen can reach potential
I liked what I saw from Noronen last night, I wish we would have had the opportunity to see more of it during the stretch run. His positioning was solid and his rebound coverage was solid. The second goal was defence not covering, the third was in off a skate. I still think the original premise of this thread is flawed. Auld is not going to play for the Moose, unless he has a complete melt down like the former pitcher Rick Ankeil (sic) for the St. Louis Cardinals who suddenly could not get the ball over the plate. The return for Dan Cloutier will not be great with his contract, and eating that salary will hurt the cap room, but I honestly don't think Dan will be the starting goalie or back up in Vancouver again. But what do I know I am just a fan on an internet forum, I don't have a crystal ball or an unshakeable belief in my powers of prognostication or analysis

wildboy26

4-16-06, 5:23 PM

Doesnt Dan's contract go into next year as well?

KB in Kelowna

4-16-06, 5:34 PM

Doesn't Dan's contract go into next year as well?Did you read my post? Yes he was re-signed last summer for two year at $2Million+ per season. Hence the fact I said moving his contract and getting anything in return will be difficult as other teams will know that Nonis needs to move him. They could end up with a Jagr-Capitals situation where the Canucks end up paying a portion of the outstanding salary and having it count against thier cap. That is the second worst case scenario with Cloutier, the worst would be his return to the #1 job in Vancouver. And niether Auld or Noronen spent any time with the Moose after you made your bold predicition.

wildboy26

4-16-06, 5:58 PM

Did you read my post? Yes he was re-signed last summer for two year at $2Million+ per season. Hence the fact I said moving his contract and getting anything in return will be difficult as other teams will know that Nonis needs to move him. They could end up with a Jagr-Capitals situation where the Canucks end up paying a portion of the outstanding salary and having it count against thier cap. That is the second worst case scenario with Cloutier, the worst would be his return to the #1 job in Vancouver. And niether Auld or Noronen spent any time with the Moose after you made your bold predicition.

Well when I started this thread I had believed Dan's contract ran into next year. I was just making sure on that. That is a large part of the reason I still believe he will play some role in the team next year. It wont be easy to find another team that wants him and it wont be easy to stomach sending him to the minors with the salary. Probably the best scenario they can hope for is to eat atleast half of his salary as you said(not the atleast half but eating some of his salary part, I personaly believe it would be atleast half though).

I would add as well though Dan DID NOT come back in time, and Vancouver did not make the playoffs so there is no way of knowing what Vancouver would have done if he had.

TimmyTabasco

4-16-06, 6:50 PM

It wont be easy to find another team that wants him

-Tampa Bay
They could be interested in Cloutier..especially with the play of Burke/Grahame
-St. Louis
Another team that could be interested
-Atlanta
They could be looking for a decent backup

wildboy26

4-16-06, 8:24 PM

-Tampa Bay
They could be interested in Cloutier..especially with the play of Burke/Grahame
-St. Louis
Another team that could be interested
-Atlanta
They could be looking for a decent backup

Do you think St. Louis is happy with Sanford? I think they will stick with him atleast another year and are reasonably happy with him for now. Who do you think the free agent goalies will be this year other than Raycroft? If it is a dry market maybe Vancouver will find a taker for Cloutier.

TimmyTabasco

4-20-06, 1:07 PM

Well, Noronen will be offered a contract

Nonis says that he is a better goalie than many are led to believe

Three goalie circus next season

But, Cloutier will be moved..

wildboy26

4-20-06, 1:42 PM

Well, Noronen will be offered a contract

Nonis says that he is a better goalie than many are led to believe

Three goalie circus next season

But, Cloutier will be moved..

I hope they dont create a 3-headed goalie monster. I am happy Noronen was signed though, I hope to see him and Auld fight for the starting job next year. Auld did a good job, but a bit of competition would be good. I hope Cloutier is moved too.

THE HACK

4-20-06, 2:11 PM

I love Cloutier but his time in Vancouver is up! Auld should be the #1 with Noronen as the backup to start next season.If Luongo doesn't sign with Florida then look for rumours of him and others coming to Vancouver for Cloutier and Bertuzzi.

Cheers

wildboy26

4-20-06, 2:17 PM

If Luongo is a free agent, people will be hovering over him like wolves do a piece of fresh meat.

THE HACK

4-20-06, 2:48 PM

If Luongo is a free agent, people will be hovering over him like wolves do a piece of fresh meat.

He's under contract for next season but will be an Unrestricted Free Agent after that so if the Panthers don't sign him then most likely they'll trade him instead of losing him for nothing.

Cheers

wildboy26

4-21-06, 12:24 PM

He's under contract for next season but will be an Unrestricted Free Agent after that so if the Panthers don't sign him then most likely they'll trade him instead of losing him for nothing.

Cheers

Yeah you are right on that. They cant afford to let somebody like Luongo go for nothing. Also there are serveral teams who would give ALOT for him.

wildboy26

6-04-06, 2:51 PM

Well now as we are entering the off season in a couple weeks it will be interesting to see what they try to do with Cloutier.

TimmyTabasco

6-04-06, 4:32 PM

Well now as we are entering the off season in a couple weeks it will be interesting to see what they try to do with Cloutier.

Cloutier is considered a bargain at $2.5 million

Remember, this guy has recorded decent numbers..on a team that couldn't spell defense

If he plays on a team which can play defense, he would have better numbers. The knock on Cloutier are his injuries..and not taking the game to the next level.

However, some would argue he didnt get that chance..due to the injuries.

I wouldnt be surprised to see him land back in Tampa Bay. He will do well wherever he ends up

wildboy26

6-04-06, 4:38 PM

Cloutier is considered a bargain at $2.5 million

Remember, this guy has recorded decent numbers..on a team that couldn't spell defense

If he plays on a team which can play defense, he would have better numbers. The knock on Cloutier are his injuries..and not taking the game to the next level.

However, some would argue he didnt get that chance..due to the injuries.

I wouldnt be surprised to see him land back in Tampa Bay. He will do well wherever he ends up

So you have no doubt that:

a)Vancouver will try and trade him
b)They will be successful finding a team to take him and his contract for next year

Is that correct?

TimmyTabasco

6-05-06, 4:41 AM

So you have no doubt that:

a)Vancouver will try and trade him
b)They will be successful finding a team to take him and his contract for next year

Is that correct?

Well, I think Nonis will try and trade Cloutier..due to his salary..and the emergence of Auld

And, I think there will be a market for Cloutier..believe it or not

wildboy26

6-07-06, 1:34 AM

Well, I think Nonis will try and trade Cloutier..due to his salary..and the emergence of Auld

And, I think there will be a market for Cloutier..believe it or not

Ok those are both good things. :thumb:

TimmyTabasco

6-07-06, 6:44 PM

Ok those are both good things. :thumb:

Yes, they are

I really do think Noronen will pass Auld as the starter

Remember, Noronen didn't play much this past season..and barely had a real practise :eek:

BUT, he still impressed during his last game. The guy is very athletic.

I just think he has that something..that can bring a goalie to the next level. No offense to Auld, but I just dont see that with him

wildboy26

6-07-06, 8:00 PM

Yes, they are

I really do think Noronen will pass Auld as the starter

Remember, Noronen didn't play much this past season..and barely had a real practise :eek:

BUT, he still impressed during his last game. The guy is very athletic.

I just think he has that something..that can bring a goalie to the next level. No offense to Auld, but I just dont see that with him

I would be happy with either as the starter. I do agree though is Noronen is giving an equal chance I see him taking over from Auld as the teams starter.
Hopefully Auld is ok with that.