Calder Trophy

[Mel]

In ABC order....

[Mel]

So many great rookies this year - I went with Ovechkin.

[Amoroq]

So many great rookies this year - I went with Ovechkin.Ditto

[charlio lemieux]

Phaneuf.

[wildboy26]

Ovechkin, unless there is alot of Canadian bias in the votes.

[PDO]

Lundqvist.

Looking more and more like he'll win the Vezina.. I can't imagine the best goalie in the league not being the best rookie in the league. Ovechkin's making a helluva case though.

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

Lundqvist should win but it'll probably go to Crosby or Ovechkin.

[MadDevil]

Interesting, 10 votes so far and not a single one for Crosby...

Lundqvist is probably the most deserving of any rookie to win the Calder, but unfortunately that doesn't really mean anything. In the end I think the hype around Crosby and Ovechkin almost guarantees one or the other will win it.

[Mel]

Interesting, 10 votes so far and not a single one for Crosby...

Lundqvist is probably the most deserving of any rookie to win the Calder, but unfortunately that doesn't really mean anything. In the end I think the hype around Crosby and Ovechkin almost guarantees one or the other will win it.

If he came up next year, with another year of development under his belt, and not in this competitive rookie class I think he'd win easily. But older players like Ovechkin and Lundqvist are turning heads.

And it doesn't help Sid's case that the Pens suck after all that pre-season hype. You can't really blame him for it.... there are a lot of talented veterans who should have to answer before an 18 year old rookie.

But I do think there is at least some perception that Ovechkin is excelling despite playing for a lousy team, and Sidney does not get that consideration (even though the Pens record would make you think otherwise).

Ovechkin just seems to be shining a little brighter than Crosby this season - but I still think Sid can surpass him to become the best player the NHL has seen in a long time. I'll be surprised if he wins the Calder however.

[Newfie John]

Ovechkin, easily. If theres any guy in the NHL who's playing right now and can come close to Gretzky's 92 goal mark sometime in his career, its Ovechkin.

[PDO]

Ovechkin, easily. If theres any guy in the NHL who's playing right now and can come close to Gretzky's 92 goal mark sometime in his career, its Ovechkin.

Kovalchuk, Staal and Heatley may have something to say about that. Especially given Heater's playing with Spezza.

[Newfie John]

Possibly, but Ovechkin is a rookie here who could score 50 in his rookie year. While those guys were good in their rookie years, they didn't dominate like this. Imagine when he reaches his max potential(unless he turns into Teemu Selanne)

[PDO]

Possibly, but Ovechkin is a rookie here who could score 50 in his rookie year. While those guys were good in their rookie years, they didn't dominate like this. Imagine when he reaches his max potential(unless he turns into Teemu Selanne)

The thing about Ovechkin is I don't think it really matters who he's playing with.. which is a good thing and a bad thing. Reminds me of Pavel Bure, in it seems every chance he gets to score he creates completely on his own. It's really one of the few knocks I can find on his game, but I think it is something that allows a guy like Kovalchuk or Heatley to be a bit more dominant at putting the puck in because they can do what Ovechkin can do and they can score from a "team" play.

That said.. AO'll score 50 in his rookie year. And I love it :nod:

[butterfly_style]

Possibly, but Ovechkin is a rookie here who could score 50 in his rookie year. While those guys were good in their rookie years, they didn't dominate like this. Imagine when he reaches his max potential(unless he turns into Teemu Selanne)
While Alex could score 50 in his rookie year, let's not forget it's a new era in the NHL.
A bit more wide open than previous years.
Not to take anything away from AO, he's great, and he got my vote for Calder.
We just can't make comparisons from this year to previous years.

What a great year for rooks . . .Ovechkin, Crosby, Lundquist, Carter, Lehtonen, Phaneuf, Miller, Meszaros . . .etc.
On any given year all these guys could be considered for Calder.
This year Ovechkin gets the nod.

[TimmyTabasco]

Ovechkin

[a4l]

Ovechkin by far.

[leaferfan87]

Ovechkin, this one isn't or shouldn't be close folks!

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

I can understand people thinking that Ovechkin should win the Calder, but easily and by far??? He hasn't made nearly the impact that Lundqvist has had on his team in a pressure position like Lundqvist is in. Lundqvist is tied for #1 in GAA and #2 in save %. Ovechkin is tied for 3rd in goals and 8th in points. Lundqvist has done better, IMO and deserves the Calder over everyone. Somehow he got numerous mentions in the Vezina thread as best goalie and more votes than in this thread. The funny situation of him winning the Vezina and not winning the Calder would come to fruition if our board members were heading up the NHL.:eyebug:

[wildboy26]

If he came up next year, with another year of development under his belt, and not in this competitive rookie class I think he'd win easily. But older players like Ovechkin and Lundqvist are turning heads.

And it doesn't help Sid's case that the Pens suck after all that pre-season hype. You can't really blame him for it.... there are a lot of talented veterans who should have to answer before an 18 year old rookie.

But I do think there is at least some perception that Ovechkin is excelling despite playing for a lousy team, and Sidney does not get that consideration (even though the Pens record would make you think otherwise).

Ovechkin just seems to be shining a little brighter than Crosby this season - but I still think Sid can surpass him to become the best player the NHL has seen in a long time. I'll be surprised if he wins the Calder however.

Even if Pittsburg is arguably just as bad a team as Washington, Crosby still has had better forward linemates to play with then Ovechkin. Recchi, Palffy(he is not there anymore but he helped Crosby alot when he was), and LeClair are still better than Halpern and company.

[charlio lemieux]

You can't ignore the two year age difference. A 20yr old will be a lot more physically developed and stronger than he was as an 18yr old. What Crosby has done as an 18yr old this season is amazing.

[wildboy26]

You can't ignore the two year age difference. A 20yr old will be a lot more physically developed and stronger than he was as an 18yr old. What Crosby has done as an 18yr old this season is amazing.

I agree but that is not a factor in voting and never has been. This thread is about the Calder trophy voting, not about who has most potential, isnt that correct? :D

[wildboy26]

For what it is worth Lundqvist hasnt even won a rookie of the month award of yet has he?

[charlio lemieux]

I agree but that is not a factor in voting and never has been. This thread is about the Calder trophy voting, not about who has most potential, isnt that correct? :D

I'm sorry you threw me off track with your "who has better line mates" post.

So a player's linemates should be considered, but his age shouldn't? :rolleyes:

Only two 18yr olds played in the NHL this season. Gilbert Brule who played 7 games for Columbus, before getting hurt, And Sidney Crosby who is 14th overall in scoring.
Not counting Crosby, the top ten rookies in scoring, on average are 4 years older than Sidney. Ovechkin is the closest to him in age being just under 2 years older. To dismiss Crosby's age when looking at what he has done this year is absurd. To give all the credit to his linemates is equally if not even more absurd.

Neither one deserves the trophy imo.
It is easy to be given lots of ice time on a crappy team and not worry about any defensive responsibility. It is a lot harder to have to earn ice time on a team that has just been to the Stanley Cup finals and has, what many consider to be, one of the best defensive corps in the league. Not only did Phaneuf land a spot on the team, but he is 4th in the league in goals by a D-man, with 14 and has managed another 23 assists for 37 points, the 15th best point total by a D-man in the league. Those are very good offensive numbers considering he plays for the 3rd worst offensive team in the league. Only Chicago and Columbus have scored less. He is +4 on a team that is only +12 all together.
I voted for Lundqvist for the Vezina and commented about how it would be funny if he won the Vezina and lost the Calder. Phaneuf is the reason I made that comment. Not Ovechkin. Not Crosby. Right now Defense has become the hardest position in the game. With the speed of the forwards if you are not good enough you will be exposed. What once were your tools and method of play are now illegal to use. The fact a rookie can step into this role and excel at it is far more impressive to me than what Crosby, Svatos and Ovechkin have done. What they have done is impressive, just not as much as Phaneuf or Lundqvist.
If it does not go to Phaneuf then it should go to Lundqvist.

[wildboy26]

I'm sorry you threw me off track with your "who has better line mates" post.

So a player's linemates should be considered, but his age shouldn't? :rolleyes:

Only two 18yr olds played in the NHL this season. Gilbert Brule who played 7 games for Columbus, before getting hurt, And Sidney Crosby who is 14th overall in scoring.
Not counting Crosby, the top ten rookies in scoring, on average are 4 years older than Sidney. Ovechkin is the closest to him in age being just under 2 years older. To dismiss Crosby's age when looking at what he has done this year is absurd. To give all the credit to his linemates is equally if not even more absurd.


A players age has never been a real consideration for the Vezina trophy. Look at how many 21-23 year olds have been nominees or won, and they were not players usually kept out of the NHL until a later age like Ovechkin because of a lockout, which is an unusual event obviously, but because they were not brought up until that age(usually goalies but some forwards to like Ryder last year who was a nominee although he didnt win). That would not have happened if age was a big factor.

Also to point out he has stronger linemates than Ovechkin is absurb, when you are the one who kept bringing up in conversations about Crosby that he had weaker linemates than people like Tanguay and Marleau when I was pointing out before the Oly break they had similar points and played better defence than Crosby? That is funny, but it is the kind of double-standard I expect from the Crosbyaniacs of which you are one.

[charlio lemieux]

Obviously you cannot comprehend what you read. Whatever....

[wildboy26]

Obviously you cannot comprehend what you read. Whatever....

Oh really. You said in the prior post that I was wrong to discount the age difference between Ovechkin and Crosby, and I pointed out since we are talking about the Calder trophy, many 21-23 year olds have been candidates or even won the award, including some skaters who were in the minors mostly until then so age must not be that big a factor in the award. You also said I was wrong to consider Crosby having better linemates than Ovechkin, when you were pointing out Crosby had weaker linemates than other players earlier this year.

[charlio lemieux]

When comparing Ovechkin and Crosby it is stupidity to not take age into account. The two extra years of development playing against men is huge.
Nothing to do with the calder.
As for your other claims, Provide some proof. Where did I say all this?

[wildboy26]

When comparing Ovechkin and Crosby it is stupidity to not take age into account. The two extra years of development playing against men is huge. Nothing to do with the calder.

but this thread is about the CALDER!

[wildboy26]

As for your other claims, Provide some proof. Where did I say all this?

http://www.hockeystation.com/showthread.php?t=2048&page=3

You start of talking about age, which in this case is totally fine but then later on down you start talking about linemates as well and offensive production of the overall team as wel.

[charlio lemieux]

That has nothing to do with the Calder. WTF are you talking about?

[wildboy26]

That has nothing to do with the Calder. WTF are you talking about?

neither does Crosbys age which was my point in the first place.

[charlio lemieux]

Where did I say because of his age he deserves the calder?

[Mel]

It looks like Ovechkin is going to net 50 goals and possibly 100 points in his rookie season on a bad team. Despite getting nearly half his points on the PP he is still a +5, and he's pulling noticably ahead of Crosby in scoring as the season winds down.

It looks like there will be no denying him the Calder, especially if he breaks those milestones.

But this year will be remembered for it's incredible rookie class, not just Ovechkin. You could assemble an exceptional full roster from this year's rookies alone. That's good for the league and good for the game.

[butterfly_style]

It looks like Ovechkin is going to net 50 goals and possibly 100 points in his rookie season on a bad team. Despite getting nearly half his points on the PP he is still a +5, and he's pulling noticably ahead of Crosby in scoring as the season winds down.

It looks like there will be no denying him the Calder, especially if he breaks those milestones.

But this year will be remembered for it's incredible rookie class, not just Ovechkin. You could assemble an exceptional full roster from this year's rookies alone. That's good for the league and good for the game.
Don't forget we're dealing with two years of draftees that made up this crop.
I doubt we'll see this kind of depth in rookie talent for a long time . . .if ever.

[charlio lemieux]

I still think Phaneuf should get it.

After watching him last night, and seeing how well the physical side of his game really is dominating, I have no doubt what-so-ever that he deserves it.

But it will probably go to the flash and dash like it usually does, even though for a D-man, offensively, Phaneuf's rookie season is among some of the best ever. And that is on the lowest scoring team in the playoffs.

[Mel]

Ovechkin is a lot of flash and dash, but you can't argue with those numbers. The occasional highlight reel goals on TV only help him get noticed even more.

As mentioned above, this is not your typical rookie class. There's a lot of guys you could argue for. Lundqvist got his 30th win last night and remains in the top 3 of the NHL for both GAA and Save%. Svatos, Boyes, Okinen and of course sid the KID. Meszaros leads the league in +/-. Petr Prucha is closing fast on 30 goals despite missing over a dozen games to injury.

Nobody, not even Phaneuf is going to get the nod over a rookie with triple digit scoring, 2nd in the NHL goals, 3rd in points. Just not gonna happen. Ovechkin will win it hands down.

[charlio lemieux]

I know. Ovechkin is a one man show. He will win. With his talent and over 20 minutes a game, he can't help but produce.

But still, put Phanuef on a higher scoring team, and he could be going for 60 or 70 points himself. With the way he scores, Leetch's Rookie D-man record of 23 goals would have been history. Instead he's the third leading scorer on a team that has had trouble scoring all season. But really his physical is what warrants him extra consideration. He absolutly nails guys every game. Not little hits along the boards, but Scott Stevens-Open-ice-stop-you-in-your-tracks-and-rattle-your teeth kind of hits. I know Ovechkin comes flying in and hits guys but, it just isn't the same as when a D-man steps up and stops a forward dead in his tracks.

Lundqvist is another guy who would be a top two or three guy in Calder voting almost any other year. Actually if there is a guy who could steal it from Ovechkin it is probably him. Goalies, due to the nature of their position do deserve some extra credit. If he could add a few shutouts before the end of the season, he might have an outside chance.

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

I've said before that Lundqvist should get it, but it will go to Ovechkin. Ovechkin is the reason that the Caps aren't battling for the #1 pick next year. Lundqvist is the reason that the Rangers are leading the Atlantic division, in a much more pressure position.

[PDO]

I've watched Phaneuf a lot more lately.. honestly, I've become less impressed, not to put down what he's done (which is very impressive).

He's still playing very sheltered minutes in Calgary. Sutter sends him out against the 3rd (preferably) and 2nd lines of the other team. He see's very limited time against top line players.

The other thing is what he does on the PP. He's the trigger man, plain and simple. The Flames PP is nothing but crash the net and get a point shot. That point shot happens to be his.. not so much because it's great, but because no one else on the team has one worth mentioning. On most teams he'd be on the 2nd PP Unit pretty easily.

That said, he's still eaisly the best rookie defenseman the NHL has had in a long time.

I'm really torn between Lundqvist and Ovechkin for the ROTY. I mean, Lundqvist had to fight to get the starters job and is still going to put up 35 wins this year, a top 3 SV% and a top 3 GAA. Ovechkin offensively has been undeniably amazing. Honestly.. I'd like to see these two share it.

[The Insider]

An informal poll of 19 people, and not even 1 vote for Sidney Crosby. This to me speaks volumes about how much Sidney's stock with the average hockey fan has slipped. I'm sure he'll end up in 2nd for voting and probably is about 2-3 years away from turning into an absolute star in this league, but is it safe to say that we all expected a lot more out of the "next" one, or has it been the other guys who have just stepped in and showed that they deserve it more?

[charlio lemieux]

Ovechkin was simply better than expected.

And he was already expected to be one of the two best rookies in the league.

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

Crosby lived up to the expectation, IMO. Ovechkin simply was better than people thought. He has proved to be in possibly the top 10 of players today. Lundqvist has been playing like one of the best goalies in the league. Did anyone really expect Crosby to step in and be one of the 10 players in the game???

[butterfly_style]

Crosby lived up to the expectation, IMO. Ovechkin simply was better than people thought. He has proved to be in possibly the top 10 of players today. Lundqvist has been playing like one of the best goalies in the league. Did anyone really expect Crosby to step in and be one of the 10 players in the game???
I think Sports Illustrated did.
Weren't they picking the Pens to challenge for the cup ?

[wildboy26]

Ovechkin was simply better than expected.

And he was already expected to be one of the two best rookies in the league.

He may have been better than most people expected but not me. I always expected Ovechkin to win the Calder this year. Actually though there were alot of CP hockey writers rating Jeff Carter to be Crosby`s biggest threat for the Calder before the season, not Ovechkin. Also there was some talk of Vanek and Lehtonen as contenders. Sportsnet crew of Kypreos et al even had the idiocy to say Corey Perry was a bigger threat for the Calder than Ovechkin in August. :laughing:

[butterfly_style]

Sportsnet crew of Kypreos et al even had the idiocy to say Corey Perry was a bigger threat for the Calder than Ovechkin in August. :laughing:
Kypreos . . .idiocy . . .in the same sentence . . .say it ain't so!

[charlio lemieux]

He may have been better than most people expected but not me. I always expected Ovechkin to win the Calder this year. Actually though there were alot of CP hockey writers rating Jeff Carter to be Crosby`s biggest threat for the Calder before the season, not Ovechkin. Also there was some talk of Vanek and Lehtonen as contenders. Sportsnet crew of Kypreos et al even had the idiocy to say Corey Perry was a bigger threat for the Calder than Ovechkin in August. :laughing:

OK WB :rolleyes:

You expected 50 goals and 100 points?

Tell me another one.

[wildboy26]

OK WB :rolleyes:

You expected 50 goals and 100 points?

Tell me another one.

I fully expected him to be better than Crosby before the year started, I expected neither to have the points they did, but I expected Ovechkin to have more and win the rookie race between the two.

I would have guessed 60-65 points for Crosby, and 75-80 for Ovechkin before the year. So both are doing alot better than I thought they would, but relative to each other about how I always expected. Scoring around the league also though is much higher than I expected, I did not think the new rules would make this much difference, but Crosby and Ovechkin have also come into the NHL even stronger than I thought they would right away.

[charlio lemieux]

And you posted this "prediction" where exactly?

[wildboy26]

And you posted this "prediction" where exactly?

I wasnt on a hockey board before the seasons started except the Maple Leafs forum. I will try to find that "prediction" if you really want to see it.

I dont know why it is so hard to believe somebody would have picked Ovechkin over Crosby to win the Calder before the year started. Crosby is great, but I dont consider Crosby a god like some people do, he is two years younger than Ovechkin which is a disadvantage(as you like to point out), and Ovechkin was underrated by alot of people just because he was humiliated in the World junior final by Canada. However Canada was a way stronger team than Russia at the World juniors last year, you put Ovechkin on Team Canada, and replace him on Team Russia with any one star player from Canada-Crosby, Carter, Richards, Bergeron, etc...and they are humiliated and the team loses 6-1 as well. However that one event caused a diminished perception of his abilities by alot of people, I was just not one of those. To rate him below Jeff Carter, and god forbid Corey Perry(ROTFL)as a Calder candidate before the year was always ridiculous, and to pick him over Crosby was not even far-fetched.

[PDO]

Crosby has been unbelievable; and lived up to the hype in every possible way he could've.

Ovechkin just happens to be god ;).

[charlio lemieux]

First off, WB do you even know who Cory Perry is?


Ovechkin just happens to be god .

Maybe a demi-god he did go pointless a few games this season. :D

Truly an amazing offensive output for a rookie, regardless. But the same can be said for Crosby, who already has over 80 points himself.

Should the NHL institue an additional trophy?

The Wayne Gretzky Trophy for the best NHL season by a player under 20 years old. Seems fitting since he was denied the Calder.

The really young guys tend to get shafted when going against other players who can be up to 5 or 6 years older than they are. (Crosby-Svatos, Boyes, Prucha)

I don't know, just an idea.

[wildboy26]

Sorry I meant Corey Perry.

[charlio lemieux]

Still do you know who he is?

What he has done?

Where he is from?

[wildboy26]

He is from the London Knights, he was the MVP at the Memorial Cup(although I thought it was ridiculous he won it over Crosby who had more points, more goals, better +/- if I recall, better in every stat except his team didnt win).
He started last years world juniors as 13th forward, moved up to 4th line, then 1st line when Colliton was injured and out of the tournament due to that injury unfortunately. He was top scorer in the OHL last year. He now plays for the Mighty Ducks and has split time between the NHL and AHL this year.

He also was predicted by Sportsnet in a show I saw, as a stronger contender for the Calder than Ovechkin. I believe there words were something like this:

Sportsnet guy: Ovechkin a threat to Crosby for the Calder, get real, Ovechkin may be a better athlete than Crosby.

Other Sportsnet guy: Maybe

Sportsnet guy #1: but he isnt even close to being a better hockey player.

Other Sportsnet guy: Jeff Carter is a real threat though, maybe Crosby's biggest

Sportsnet guy #1: oh yeah he is.

Other sportsnet guy: Lets not count out Vanek though. He has the edge in age and would have played last year without the lockout.

Sporsnet guy #1: Or Lehtonen in Atlanta, another one ready for a big year, an up and coming goalie who would have played last year likely without the lockout.

Other sportsnet guy: We cant forget about Corey Perry though who matched up very well with Crosby at the Memorial Cup tournament last year though. Phaneuf, the teammate of Crosby and Perry on that famous World junior team could be a candidate as well, almost certainly will be the best rookie D-man if nothing else.

Sportsnet guy #1: So we could have several guys-Crosby, Carter, Vanek, Lehtonen, Perry, and Phaneuf all fighting for the Calder.

Other Sportsnet guy: Yep and alot of great rookies like Ovechkin, Svatos, Parise, Fritsche, who have pretty much no shot but will still impress and show what a deep rookie class it is.

[charlio lemieux]

So why was it so shocking for someone to suggest that the OHL's leading scorer, and Memorial Cup MVP, might challenge for the Calder?

Hindsight is 20/20 but really, at the time it was not such a far fetched idea, considering he has a two year age advantage over Crosby.

What Perry will do from here on is anyones guess, but I would think that he will develop into a consistant NHL producer.
Anaheim is going to get very scary in the next few seasons.

[KB in Kelowna]

So why was it so shocking for someone to suggest that the OHL's leading scorer, and Memorial Cup MVP, might challenge for the Calder?

Hindsight is 20/20 but really, at the time it was not such a far fetched idea, considering he has a two year age advantage over Crosby.

What Perry will do from here on is anyones guess, but I would think that he will develop into a consistant NHL producer.
Anaheim is going to get very scary in the next few seasons.

Which is why Brian Burke took that job.

If I was voting for the Calder I would vote Lundqvist as nobody thought the Rangers would be a competative team this year. Even our leader Mel was not overly optomistic about their potential.

[wildboy26]

So why was it so shocking for someone to suggest that the OHL's leading scorer, and Memorial Cup MVP, might challenge for the Calder?

Hindsight is 20/20 but really, at the time it was not such a far fetched idea, considering he has a two year age advantage over Crosby.

What Perry will do from here on is anyones guess, but I would think that he will develop into a consistant NHL producer.
Anaheim is going to get very scary in the next few seasons.

Well I could ask you then if it really was far-fetched to think Ovechkin could win the Calder since you seemed to find it hard to believe I would have predicted that before the year, and even asked me to show you a link of my saying that.

I sure as heck would have put Ovechin WAY WAY above Perry on the candidates list to the win the Calder before the year, that is for sure. Yes I did find before the year started even suggesting Perry was more of a threat for the Calder then Ovechkin absolutely outrageous and ridiculous, without any doubt. Like I said I have no doubt many Canadians had an unfairly diminished opinion of Ovechkin due to the World juniors, where the Ovechkin-Malkin team was destroyed by the incredable Canadian team. As I said you put any one of Crosby, Carter, Richards, Bergeron, Perry, on team Russia and put Ovechkin on Team Canada the final is a rout for Canada still and whichever aforementioned Canadian star was on Team Russia would have been decimated if they were the target of an entire team while carrying their own team with only one other helpful player. I just did not allow my opinion of Ovechkin to be wrongfully lowered to unreasonable degrees based on that.

[NashisGod]

Ovechkin hands down it shouldn't even be close...

[charlio lemieux]

WB,

I find it hard to believe you predicted 50 goals and 100 points.
And I would still like to see where you posted that.

Almost Half of all hockey fans picked Ovechkin to win the Calder. Not really a surprise.:rolleyes:


As for the Perry thing, who cares? You can say whatever you want now.
All I'm saying is, at the beginning of the season, it doesn't make sense to ignore the Memorial Cup MVP and OHL scoring leader when looking at possible Calder Finalists. But hey you want Rick Nash banned from Team Canada, so whatever?


Carter, Richards, Bergeron, Perry
When did these guys get put onto the same level with Crosby and Ovechkin?

[wildboy26]

WB,

I find it hard to believe you predicted 50 goals and 100 points.
And I would still like to see where you posted that.

Read above, I never said I predicted him to score 50 goals and 100 points, I said I predicted him to be ahead of Crosby in points by about the same margin he is now. Both he and Crosby have alot more points than I predicted, but I am not the least bit surprised how they compare to one another, that is what I said.


Almost Half of all hockey fans picked Ovechkin to win the Calder. Not really a surprise.:rolleyes:

I dont know what hockey fans predicted but experts were all picking Crosby, and as funny as it sounds now more where picking Jeff Carter, Thomas Vanek, and Keri Lehtonen(although if Lehtonen was healthy all year I think he might be right up with Lundquist stats-wise and indeed battling for it)than Ovechkin. I already pointed as well the so-called hockey experts on Sportsnet were also picking Perry over Ovechkin as a threat.

But hey you want Rick Nash banned from Team Canada, so whatever?

Big deal, you included him as a name a couple of times of a player that should not have been on Team Canada this year yourself; and you did not include him in your 2010 Olympic team in the thread I started on it either.


When did these guys get put onto the same level with Crosby and Ovechkin?

I dont think they are on the same level, I was just pointing out all noteable players in indicating I dont think there is a single key players on Team Canada that would have done any better on Team Russia, Crosby or otherwise. Also for the record though Bergeron was probably the best player at the World juniors last year, over both Crosby and Ovechkin, or atleast he was similar to both, even if this year in the NHL he has been nowhere near them.

[wildboy26]

WB,

I find it hard to believe you predicted 50 goals and 100 points.
And I would still like to see where you posted that.

I fully expected him to be better than Crosby before the year started, I expected neither to have the points they did, but I expected Ovechkin to have more and win the rookie race between the two.

I would have guessed 60-65 points for Crosby, and 75-80 for Ovechkin before the year. So both are doing alot better than I thought they would, but relative to each other about how I always expected.

As you can see I never implied I predicted 50 goals and 100 points.

[charlio lemieux]

I dont know what hockey fans predicted but experts were all picking Crosby, and as funny as it sounds now more where picking Jeff Carter, Thomas Vanek, and Keri Lehtonen(although if Lehtonen was healthy all year I think he might be right up with Lundquist stats-wise and indeed battling for it)than Ovechkin. I already pointed as well the so-called hockey experts on Sportsnet were also picking Perry over Ovechkin as a threat.



Big deal, you included him as a name a couple of times of a player that should not have been on Team Canada this year yourself; and you did not include him in your 2010 Olympic team in the thread I started on it either.

Duh?

Almost everyone on the planet knew it would be a two horse race between Crosby and Ovechkin. Flip a coin. Pick one. Sheesh, it's not like you are some super-genius for picking Ovechkin to win the Calder.

"Hockey experts on Sportsnet" Now there is an oxymoron. :rollover2
Ya two failed Leafs GM's and some former NHLer's who were sub-par players at best.
Al Strachan is sometimes on, was that the guy you were listening too?


Ya I left Nash off the 2010 team, but that is a far cry from banning him from all future team Canada's.:rolleyes:

[wildboy26]

"Hockey experts on Sportsnet" Now there is an oxymoron.
Ya two failed Leafs GM's and some former NHLer's who were sub-par players at best.
Al Strachan is sometimes on, was that the guy you were listening too?

Strachan and Kypreos I believe. :)