View Full Version : Canada vs. Russia in Quarterfinal
Max Power
2-22-06, 9:53 AM
Well this is going to be one tough game for Canada.
So what are the keys to a win in your opinion?
For me
- Players need to keep moving and skate faster... They've looked flat footed in many games and they're not using the big ice surface
- Dress six D men only. Sorry odd man out should be McCabe
- need more offensive production and involvement by D men. Most have been solid but they all need to be better. We have the best core in the league and it needs to show today.
- Iginla, Nash and Thornton need to be much better for a win
Madferret
2-22-06, 1:20 PM
I watched the Russia / US game last night and I gotta say, Russia scares the hell out of me. Russia will take allot of penalties - if we can expose that and maybe get the PP going we could help our cause.
I think we have a team to win Gold and beat Russia today but if they play like they've been playing then Russia is going to win this hockey game.
Madferret
2-22-06, 3:37 PM
Here we go..
http://www.patchplace.com/Canada_flag_with_CANADA_24x.jpg
Madferret
2-22-06, 3:55 PM
This is tense...lol
Who's watching?
Leafs_Fa_Life
2-22-06, 4:41 PM
I'm watching. Caught the first period at school and then hurried home to catch the second :)
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
2-22-06, 4:45 PM
Wow, you guys are taking way too many penalties, like some other team I know.
Madferret
2-22-06, 4:46 PM
Wow, you guys are taking way too many penalties, like some other team I know.
That's our motto this year..
Newfie John
2-22-06, 4:52 PM
This game is a nailbiter for sure. Canada's on their way to the PP.
butterfly_style
2-22-06, 4:53 PM
I'm watching every ticker going.
I've got eight windows open . . . flicking back and forth.
Not getting much work done.
As an aside, another great day for Canada
GOLD - Women's Sprint X-Country Skiing
GOLD & SILVER - Women's 1500 Long track speed skating.
SILVER - Women's Short track relay.
Men advance to Gold medal round in curling.
Men's hockey - davance to Semi-Final . . .well that hasn't happened yet!!
Madferret
2-22-06, 4:56 PM
That Silver is thanks to a valley girl eh..
butterfly_style
2-22-06, 4:58 PM
That Silver is thanks to a valley girl eh..
Yep. Kristina Groves
Canadian26
2-22-06, 5:01 PM
This is a good game today
Madferret
2-22-06, 5:01 PM
Yep. Kristina Groves
Beauty..
0-0 after 2..:hair:
Newfie John
2-22-06, 5:02 PM
This better not go to a shootout.
Madferret
2-22-06, 5:10 PM
Alright I gotta make a mad dash home in about 20 minutes, I better not miss anything..
Newfie John
2-22-06, 5:14 PM
I hate Ovechkin. I guess we'll give an assist to Pronger on that one.
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 5:14 PM
1-0 RUS
Madferret
2-22-06, 5:19 PM
Ack..
Madferret
2-22-06, 5:24 PM
This has shades of '98 all over it.
Watch Draper tie it up a la Team Canada 1998's Rob Zamuner.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 5:35 PM
Joey T draws a penalty. Excellent individual play by him and Canada goes on the PP.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 5:37 PM
That quick whistle could have costed us the game.
Madferret
2-22-06, 5:38 PM
That game against the Swiss really bit us in the ass eh.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 5:43 PM
Pronger... I want to kill you.
Canadian26
2-22-06, 5:44 PM
Its over
Newfie John
2-22-06, 5:44 PM
JESUS!
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 5:44 PM
I'll help.
It's done 2-0. 23 seconds left.
Canadian26
2-22-06, 5:46 PM
:cry: i dont believe it
Madferret
2-22-06, 5:48 PM
Blanked 3 times...UNACCEPTABLE
bluemeanie
2-22-06, 5:53 PM
Blanked 3 times...UNACCEPTABLE
Almost Blanked 3 times... yet, still very much UNACCEPTABLE...
Hmmm.
Let this tournament be a lesson.
:burning:
Madferret
2-22-06, 6:13 PM
Almost Blanked 3 times... yet, still very much UNACCEPTABLE...
Blue!!
- I think we've seen the last of PQ, JM & KH behind that bench. <Thank God>
Well that caps our worst tourney in recent memory. This is definatly worse than Nagano. Every Canadian player dissapointed me at some point in time this tournament. Simply embarrasing and the team deserves the come back empty-handed.
We in no way deserved to win tonight. Only Brodeur seemed to be into it, while Bertuzzi and Pronger were particularily bad on this day.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 6:43 PM
Little to no offence. Playing like that is going to break down your defence eventually. That happened today. Brodeur played well though. Big changes coming for 2010, thats for sure.
I hate Ovechkin. I guess we'll give an assist to Pronger on that one.
Yeah, it's not like he won a battle for a puck, passed it to Bouwmeester who wasn't ready and let it go by, then it went to Doan who simply threw it back into the corner. Clearly his fault :rolleyes:
Is reffing ever any good in these tournaments? Bleh..
This team had no heart. Hell, the Russians had no heart either minus the young guys (Ovechkin, Malkin and Kovalchuk). I'll rip into it later, but Gretzky made a lot of mistakes putting this team together, and the criticism will come for it. Undisciplined penalties, dumb play, no chemistry.. this isn't really all that surprising.
Props to my boy Ovechkin though.
I'll also say it.. Smyth was Canada's best player this tournament, by FAR. We had a lot of vets playing hurt (Pronger, Sakic, Blake) and a lot of young guys disapearing (Heatley, Thornton, Nash) but really.. Smyth was the only player on this team who was at all consistent.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 6:49 PM
Pronger did something that defencemen it squirts learn, never clear the puck to the middle. Thats exactly what he did. That didn't cost us the goal but it gave Russia another chance. When Pronger recovered, he was made a fool of by Pronger. Bouwmeester didn't help, but Pronger definately had some fault on that goal.
Not to mention his very timely penalty causing the 2nd goal.
Pronger did something that defencemen it squirts learn, never clear the puck to the middle. Thats exactly what he did. That didn't cost us the goal but it gave Russia another chance. When Pronger recovered, he was made a fool of by Pronger. Bouwmeester didn't help, but Pronger definately had some fault on that goal.
Not to mention his very timely penalty causing the 2nd goal.
He didn't clear the puck, it was a pass it a wide open Jay Bouwmeester. Blaming Pronger for that goal is simply ignorant. He was then caught out of position because he'd been behind the net, and yes, he was late getting over to Ovechkin which caused the goal.
As for the penalty.. there were 30 seconds left on the clock, Kovalev took a monstrous dive, and blaming the game on him for that is equally ridiculous; especially considering he looked to be one of the only players who actually gave two ****'s about the outcome.
If you're looking for goats, I don't see how you can't be saying Nash, Thornton, Heatley, St. Louis, Richards (gotta love when he passed the puck there.. wow), Sakic, IGINLA.
Pronger did something that defencemen it squirts learn, never clear the puck to the middle. Thats exactly what he did. That didn't cost us the goal but it gave Russia another chance. When Pronger recovered, he was made a fool of by Pronger. Bouwmeester didn't help, but Pronger definately had some fault on that goal.
Not to mention his very timely penalty causing the 2nd goal.
Chris Pronger was one of our better players this tournament and thats with a really bad foot.If Bertuzzi didn't take that dumb interference penalty then we wouldn't be talking about this powerplay goal and blaming Pronger.But I'm not going to entirely blame Bertuzzi for this loss either as we didn't score any goals and our powerplay let us down again while Russia scored on theirs.Prongers penalty at the end didn't matter anyways ,there was under 30seconds remaining.This loss hurts bad and I really feel sorry for Gretzky,Quinn and even Bertuzzi who are going to take the brunt of all the blame.
Hats off to Russia though for playing a good game and limiting Canada's chances.Their penalty kill was good and they scored their goal on the powerplay.Also congrats to Pavel Bure for putting together such a good team!:)
Cheers
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 7:02 PM
Sorry PDO but the penalty at the end of the game was due to Pronger holding onto the puck too long and almost losing it.
His give away to Koivu against the Fins stands out aswell. This whole tournament was far from Pronger's best showing.
As for the guys playing hurt: $^#^&## *&$*&(@#$ letting personal pride get in the road of the team. How can Sakic with a broken cheek be better than a healthy Staal? Leadership qualities be damned. Pronger too. He should have stayed home if he was hurt.
Oh well I wasn't happy with this team from the start, so although I'm disappointed I'm not surprised.
Sorry PDO but the penalty at the end of the game was due to Pronger holding onto the puck too long and almost losing it.
His give away to Koivu against the Fins stands out aswell. This whole tournament was far from Pronger's best showing.
As for the guys playing hurt: $^#^&## *&$*&(@#$ letting personal pride get in the road of the team. How can Sakic with a broken cheek be better than a healthy Staal? Leadership qualities be damned. Pronger too. He should have stayed home if he was hurt.
Oh well I wasn't happy with this team from the start, so although I'm disappointed I'm not surprised.
It's not personal pride - look at what Hack just said; Pronger on one foot was still one of our best players, and I'd say he was our best defenseman. Our D were left out hung to dry all tournament by our forwards; who then helped the D out by scoring timely goals.
Fact is.. there were guys on this team that should NOT have been on this team in the first place. There is no way Krys Draper deserved to be on this team in any way shape or form over Eric Staal. And what exactly has Shane Doan ever done to warrant being here over Shanahan, Kariya or Tanguay? St. Louis had one good year and has been terrible this year, same goes for him. You have to look at the past, and yes, loyality should play into it.. that's why guys like Smyth and Lecavalier deserved to be on the team, they've always played their hearts out for Canada and upped their game (and I'd argue that Smyth did - Lecavalier, not so much).
Sorry Gretzky, but you hurt this team when you allowed McCabe to be here over Phaneuf, Draper to be here over.. well.. about, what.. 55 other guys on the list? Doan, St. Louis both didn't belong on this team. I do think Doan did a good job; but I think a lot of guys could've done a whole lot more. I really thought St. Louis was terrible all tournament.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 7:12 PM
I just seen the goal again. That was not a pass, Pronger was trying to get rid of the puck and he put it in the worst place imaginable. Like I said Bouwmeester didn't help but the puck should have never gone there in the first place. Then, as you said, he was late getting to Ovechkin. Even the best have their bad games, this was one for Pronger.
Whether it was a dive or not, he held the puck way too long and when he was in danger he grabbed Kovalev.
I'm not blaming the loss on him, but he certainly didn't help. Neither did any of the forwards IMO. They were all replacable as far as I'm concerned. Such a lack of heart disgusted me.
Wade Redden I thought was our most steady defencemen throughout the tournament, and Brodeur was good in the QF.
Boy, it's a good thing Canada needed some checking line players in Draper and Doan, rather than throwing Staal, Shanahan, Kariya, or Marleau on the team. For that matter I think even Morrow and Madden would have brought more than the two mentioned above.
The absence of Scott Niedermayer on the blueline was painfully obvious throughout the tournament, and even Jovanovski would have at least brought some offense to the team. I think those two could have helped out the PP immensely.
It mind boggling to me how a team with that much talent can get shut out in 11 of their last 12 periods in the tournament. It's simply pathetic IMO. To be honest, I think Canada struggled with many of the same things the US team did (mental mistakes, bad penalties, struggling offense). It if wasn't for Brodeur, I think Russia would have won this game 5-0.
Wade Redden I thought was our most steady defencemen throughout the tournament, and Brodeur was good in the QF.
Wade Redden was steady; steadly underwhelming. That was nowhere near what he can give but was still one of the better blueliners because of how poorly all the others played.
As for Pronger, he was our worst defenseman relative to the player's respective ability as far as I'm concerned. No other blueliner was a Norris candidate. Not even close. Maybe you could make a case for Wade, but he'd be a huge long shot. What the the bonadife Norris threat do? Play like a guy you'd want to round out an NHL top 4, not an Olympic one. That's not bad hockey, but not near where it should be for him. He may have been our best blueliner, but not by nearly enough for us to win gold.
However, he was still one of the less dissapointing for the same reason Redden was - they sucked significantly less than the others who totally caved. In spite of this, most of the big giveaways leading to opposing goals (if not from McCabe) were from him. Koivu's battle? Just plain lost. No way he wanted to just kick the puck to a Canadian forward. It didn't have nearly enough power. Unless he thought the forward was two feet beside him, in which case he seriously need to acquire some hockey sense. The one today? He looked totally indesisive and in the end I don't think he could make up his mind whether to pass our just clear the zone. A mix of the two resulted and it was picked off. Too weak to clear the zone, too strong and inaccurate to be a nice pass to JBo. Penalty after penalty Pronger took, many of them stupid. They didn't cost us ala Bertuzzi, but they were abundant. At least he has the foot as an excuse. And he still outplayed most of the D corps.
McCabe just plain sucked, as everyone already mentioned. The worst defenseman on the team by far, but I didn't expect all that much against stellar compeition on big ice. So again, relative to expectations, I think Prongs was the worst. Credit to Caber, he was one of the better blueliners today. Just like he played his way to little minutes before, I was hoping to see Mccabe get some more ice in this contest. It's not like the others were using it. A forward playing defense, we could've used that mentality anyway in hindisight since we needed a goal.
Forwards were all ineffective and impotent. Evey single one.
I just seen the goal again. That was not a pass, Pronger was trying to get rid of the puck and he put it in the worst place imaginable. Like I said Bouwmeester didn't help but the puck should have never gone there in the first place. Then, as you said, he was late getting to Ovechkin. Even the best have their bad games, this was one for Pronger.
Whether it was a dive or not, he held the puck way too long and when he was in danger he grabbed Kovalev.
I'm not blaming the loss on him, but he certainly didn't help. Neither did any of the forwards IMO. They were all replacable as far as I'm concerned. Such a lack of heart disgusted me.
Wade Redden I thought was our most steady defencemen throughout the tournament, and Brodeur was good in the QF.
So, it was just a pass that magically went right by two Canadian players. That takes some serious talent to do that on accident!
He held the puck too long because (once again.. all tournament long, actually) his forwards were no where to be seen. I've never seen such poor puck support in my life.
Redden was good, but any better than Pronger? I certainly didn't see that; they both made the good play more often than not, but both had several problems, many of which are directly related to our forwards being pathetic in their own end.
I'm shocked that Iginla isn't getting any flack at all. Fernando Pisani would've been more effective this tournament.
Like I said, and like MD said.. Draper and Doan being here hurt us, and it hurt us a lot. Doan was very good on the PK, no doubt, and he had some good shifts.. but name one thing that Doan does better than Eric Staal. You can't. Draper is and was terrible.
I think the Tampa boys also should get some more criticism. Lecavalier had moments, and was eaisly the best of the 3 (also.. where the hell was the Smyth - Lecavalier - Heatley line that was so effective at the World Cup?) and Richards you can make a solid argument for just because he's so versatile while having offensive talent.. but St. Louis is a one dimensional player who's one dimension has been pretty shallow this year.
Phaneuf and Hannan both also should've been on this team; they needed the physical prowess that those two bring with pretty error free hockey.
In: Staal, Kariya, Shanahan, Phaneuf, Hannan
Out: Draper, Doan, St. Louis, McCabe, Foote
Just my $0.02, but I was wary of this team all along (though, even I thought they'd produce more offense than this) and I can't say I'm shocked that we lost.
Also, I'd love for Gretzky to note.. the 3 best skaters for the Russians today? Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk. But man, those Canadian kids just aren't ready yet..
And I still don't understand why everyone is complaining about the defense so much.. this team allowed an average of what, 2.2 goals a game? And scored how many goals in their last 4 games.. 2?
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 7:36 PM
Just heard Gretzky ask why Kerry Fraser who "is the best referee in the NHL" isn't here?
Kerry Fraser? :confused: Kerry Fraser? :mad: Kerry Fraser? :curse: KERRY FREAKIN' FRASER:burning: :talkhand:
Sorry about that. '93 Flashback. :shrug: :D
I know this is a touchy subject for my Canadian friends so please don't assume I'm here to rub anything in or stir it up... I have no desire to do any such thing, just making conversation.
I do think there are going to be some major questions as to who was there and who wasn't. Draper? I just don't get it. In an international tournament no less, how could you bring Draper and leave young red-hot Eric Staal at home?
Next time out I think Canada should go all young. Take NO players past their prime (32) with a few exceptions. Force the Heatley's the Staal's and the Nash's etc. (Crosby's?) to step up and take the reigns. The successful teams over there are for the most part young teams. Sakic is long in the tooth, as are a bunch of others. IMO these guys have heavier expectations on them to weigh them down (past glory of Cups, All-star games, NHL stardom, big contracts, piercing Canadian media scrutiny). The young guys don't care about that stuff, they just go all out.
Team US could have stuck with the "Geritol" squad and send the same core group that won the 96 WC 10 years ago... but they'd all need walkers to get to and from the locker room. Know what I mean?
Just send a bunch of wide-eyed kids who are not gonna feel as much pressure. They're just gonna go out there and bring it.
My 2 bits
Sorry for the bummer loss, we had one too today but expectations were much lower.
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 7:48 PM
Rub it in all you want Mel, you won't get this chance often. :D
We sent an inferior product to Turin and this is the result.
And I still don't understand why everyone is complaining about the defense so much.. this team allowed an average of what, 2.2 goals a game? And scored how many goals in their last 4 games.. 2?
My sentiments exactly?:thumb: Defence was not the problem and even though they weren't great they are not the reason why we lost.I know McCabe is taking alot of heat but how many goals for was he on for in Team Canada's losses?I'll tell you ZERO,but yet people still pounce on him!:no:
Our problem is as clear as the blue sky and thats our goal production and inability to score on the powerplay.You called it when Richards passed the puck instead of shooting on our last powerplay,Richards tried to be cute,that said it all and was our powerplay in a nutshell!
Cheers
The Insider
2-22-06, 8:32 PM
Well, I missed the game...again... so I cannot comment on the game... again... but I will say that it is very disappointing that this team which had such high hopes of winning the gold is now coming home not only empty handed, but with their tails between their legs after such a miserable showing.
:burning: :curse: :mad: :rolleyes: :cry: :no: :doh: :hammer2:
You know I actually was able to take Friday off expecting a Semi-Final game/win for Canada, but know I'm forced to watched the damn Russians. :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:
Go Leafs Go :thumb:
Madferret
2-22-06, 8:40 PM
I've seen turbo Euro-trash Andreas Dackell show more heart than ANY of the heart shown by the Canadian players this Olympics. Simply unacceptable and embaressing.
Black Wednesday.
I feel bad for all the CDN athletes who won medals today - back home their success is being overshadowed by the disgrace of the hockey team.
Newfie John
2-22-06, 8:54 PM
I agree Dev. A huge lack of heart.
Also, I'd love for Gretzky to note.. the 3 best skaters for the Russians today? Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk. But man, those Canadian kids just aren't ready yet..
My sentiments exactly. :shrug:
At least we can still be proud of our women. We still won one gold medal in hockey. :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
KB in Kelowna
2-22-06, 9:45 PM
I missed the game, as I had to work. Seems to me, from what I have read, that this team had no Chemistry, that there was a missing work ethic and a belief that talent would carry them. For the next "big" international tournament the Team Canada brain trust won't have to keep commitments to those who won the last time, perhaps they will look at who is playing well at the roster deadline? Can't believe with the offensive talent on this team they didn't light up the score board more than they did. Was Team Canada out coached?
leaferfan87
2-22-06, 10:33 PM
I missed the game, as I had to work. Seems to me, from what I have read, that this team had no Chemistry, that there was a missing work ethic and a belief that talent would carry them. For the next "big" international tournament the Team Canada brain trust won't have to keep commitments to those who won the last time, perhaps they will look at who is playing well at the roster deadline? Can't believe with the offensive talent on this team they didn't light up the score board more than they did. Was Team Canada out coached?
I think it was apparent as the 2005 World Championships wore down that the European teams had figured out a system to shut down the Canadian attack. That was evident in the shutout loss against the Czechs in that tournament. I feel the other nations have caught on to whatever it is that the Czechs were doing. So in essence KB you would be correct in stating that Canada was outcoached.
1: Denial
2: Anger
3: Bargaining
4: Depression
5: Acceptance
The 5 stages of grief, what number are you on? I'm on #1 and slowly working to #2.
Just heard Gretzky ask why Kerry Fraser who "is the best referee in the NHL" isn't here?
Kerry Fraser? :confused: Kerry Fraser? :mad: Kerry Fraser? :curse: KERRY FREAKIN' FRASER:burning: :talkhand:
Sorry about that. '93 Flashback. :shrug: :D:laughing: :cry: :curse:Great bring me down even further and faster!
Canadian26
2-23-06, 4:28 AM
Also, I'd love for Gretzky to note.. the 3 best skaters for the Russians today? Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk. But man, those Canadian kids just aren't ready yet..
I think gretzky just went with what he was comfortable with, IMO half the players on the team shouldnt have been there. Oh well, hopefully they'll be better prepared for 2010...
Max Power
2-23-06, 10:38 AM
Well my outlook on this lost comes down to coaching and maybe a little to the selection
Too much loyalty and not enough tough decisions made
-7 man D system did not work and Quinn could not make the tough decision to bench McCabe
-Bert sucked other then the first game yet he was on the ice in crucial moments
-Pronger was mediocre at best when he should have been our best yet he continued to see top minutes. His injury should have limited his ice time
-Sakic being injured should have been replaced with Staal. If you?re not 100% then you need to sit when top quality replacement is available
-Nash and Thornton continued to be on the ice in crucial moments even though they were not producing or even creating any chances
Mistakes were made during the game that cost us scoring opportunities like Richards passing to Heatly when he had a great scoring chance or McCabe slapping the puck at the point when a defender was in front of him and easily blocked the shot or when he fumbled the puck rather then just knocking it back into play, both screwing up PP momentum and causing Russian scoring chances. Either way it comes down to who was on the ice and this is the coaching staffs responsibility.
I?d like Gretzky to stay but everything else needs to be mixed up for next run
charlio lemieux
2-23-06, 10:58 AM
Well my outlook on this lost comes down to coaching and maybe a little to the selection
Too much loyalty and not enough tough decisions made
-7 man D system did not work and Quinn could not make the tough decision to bench McCabe
-Bert sucked other then the first game yet he was on the ice in crucial moments
-Pronger was mediocre at best when he should have been our best yet he continued to see top minutes. His injury should have limited his ice time
-Sakic being injured should have been replaced with Staal. If you?re not 100% then you need to sit when top quality replacement is available
-Nash and Thornton continued to be on the ice in crucial moments even though they were not producing or even creating any chances
Mistakes were made during the game that cost us scoring opportunities like Richards passing to Heatly when he had a great scoring chance or McCabe slapping the puck at the point when a defender was in front of him and easily blocked the shot or when he fumbled the puck rather then just knocking it back into play, both screwing up PP momentum and causing Russian scoring chances. Either way it comes down to who was on the ice and this is the coaching staffs responsibility.
I?d like Gretzky to stay but everything else needs to be mixed up for next run
It was Richards who was wearing 39 wasn't it. He had 90% of the net open and he passed the puck, right at the end there.
With the way the Europeans are playing and being coached, I think we would have done better with Jacques Lemaire behind the bench. But that would have made for some, even more, boring hockey.
The rules have been discussed earlier in another thread, but the changes the NHL made to improve the game need to be adopted by IOC. Specifically the placement of the Goal-lines and Bluelines. It loooked like there was no room in the offensive zone, when there was 10 players skating around. The larger neutral zone encourages a trap system. Hopefully they IOC will make the necessary changes to improve the quality of the product.
wildboy26
2-23-06, 1:08 PM
I will NEVER defend Rick Nash again, he totally sucks and I hope he is never never never on another Team Canada again. Thornton also sucked this tournament, as did Bertuzzi. The Tampa Bay boys, Gagne, and Iginla were the ones creating some good scoring chances so should be given some recognition, the others sucked.
Max Power
2-23-06, 1:08 PM
It was Richards who was wearing 39 wasn't it. He had 90% of the net open and he passed the puck, right at the end there.
Yup
Coaching strategy by Quinn and co =]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/surreal48/Hockey.jpg
Madferret
2-23-06, 1:12 PM
Anyone know where we can get the TOI numbers for the Canadian team?
As I said at another site, two quotes from Miracle come to mind when I think of Team Canada 2006...
"I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones."
"The name on the front of the jersey is a hell of a lot more important than the one on the back."
Canada decided to put an all-star team together rather than one that worked well as a team. There's a reason Finland and Russia have done well in this tournament. They have players who truly want to be there, and they're willing to play as a team. Canada had too many big egos that either tried to be the hero themselves, or looked like they just didn't want to be there.
I know I kind of ripped on Draper and Doan earlier in this thread, but there was one thing they had that half the roster didn't: They actually gave a damn, and didn't play selfishly. Second guessing management is easy in hindsight, but I still think that younger players like Staal, Phaneuf, and Tanguay would have given more effort than some of the veterans that made the roster. I also think that Shanahan, Morrow, and Madden all had the fiery attitude that they wouldn't have sat idly by and watched their team suck it up on the ice. Canada needed somebody in that locker room or on the bench to rip them a new asshole after being shutout in consecutive games, and they didn't have that person.
There is a lot of blame to be thrown around for Canada losing. Management, coaching, and the players are all responsible, and I think Canada should consider overhauling some of those areas by 2010, or I think they may be looking at the same situation again.
Just my opinion...
Max Power
2-23-06, 1:28 PM
As I said at another site, two quotes from Miracle come to mind when I think of Team Canada 2006...
"I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones."
"The name on the front of the jersey is a hell of a lot more important than the one on the back."
Canada decided to put an all-star team together rather than one that worked well as a team. There's a reason Finland and Russia have done well in this tournament. They have players who truly want to be there, and they're willing to play as a team. Canada had too many big egos that either tried to be the hero themselves, or looked like they just didn't want to be there.
...
I've got to completely disagree with this
During the orientation camp this group looked good together and that's why they were picked. It wasn?t egos or hero complex that caused us to lose it was loyalty and the tough decisions that should have been made that COULD have changed the outcome that may have caused us to lose
Madferret
2-23-06, 1:34 PM
All 3 shutouts where at the same arena eh.
Anyone else think Monsieur Gretzky looks like he's on the verge of a breakdown? He's had a worse year than Theodore!
So the Sens lose Hasek for who knows how long, and the prettiest Team Canada team every assembled got knocked out in the quarters...I LOVE THE OLYMPICS!
I think my position on NHL players playing in the games might have just altered.
butterfly_style
2-23-06, 1:56 PM
Yup
Coaching strategy by Quinn and co =]
As much as I love to crap on Quinn, I don't he had anything to do with Richards' decision at that moment.
When you've been shut-out for 11 of the last 12 periods, it gets in your head.
You're start trying for the perfect pass . . . the picture goal when you you should be looking for the garbage.
All-in-all, we got what we deserved, for the level of play we brought to the tournament.
Max Power
2-23-06, 2:13 PM
As much as I love to crap on Quinn, I don't he had anything to do with Richards' decision at that moment.
I agree
The image was just an added joke and nothing to do with that blunder
Madferret
2-23-06, 2:14 PM
ADD - No lucky loonie either this time...as my boy styles' pointed out, we got what we deserved. I'm glad I don't have to watch that anymore.
Max Power
2-23-06, 2:20 PM
All 3 shutouts where at the same arena eh.
Anyone else think Monsieur Gretzky looks like he's on the verge of a breakdown? He's had a worse year than Theodore!
So the Sens lose Hasek for who knows how long, and the prettiest Team Canada team every assembled got knocked out in the quarters...I LOVE THE OLYMPICS!
I think my position on NHL players playing in the games might have just altered.
The good news is that 7 out of 9 Senators are coming home early for a weeks rest
It?s a good thing clutch game and failure has never been a Senator issue or else I?d have a complex
Madferret
2-23-06, 2:28 PM
Seriously though does anyone know a site where they have all the tournament stats etc. The IIHF site is a mess..
Max Power
2-23-06, 2:45 PM
Sorry Dev I've looked too but can't find a thing
I was wondering what he was "kicked" out of the game for
Russia's Malkin suspended for semifinal
Evgeni Malkin
Sports Ticker
2/23/2006 1:15:38 PM
TORINO, Italy (Ticker) - Russia will have to continue its quest for Olympic gold without a key player.
Pittsburgh Penguins prospect Evgeni Malkin was suspended for Russia's semifinal game against Finland for a kicking incident.
Russia only will be without Malkin for Friday's contest, as the 19-year-old was suspended for attempting to kick Tampa Bay Lightning center Vincent Lecavalier with 61 seconds remaining in Wednesday's quarterfinal win over 2002 Olympic champion Canada.
Malkin, who was selected by Pittsburgh immediately after Team Russia teammate Alexander Ovechkin was chosen first overall by the Washington Capitals in 2004, received a match penalty for the offense. He has collected two goals and four assists in six games in the tournament.
Playing for Metallurg Magnitogorsk of the Russian Superleague this season, Malkin has amassed 21 goals and 28 assists in 43 games.
charlio lemieux
2-23-06, 2:54 PM
If the team had played like the Canadian girls they might have done better. :D
Pronger has been getting ripped almost everywhere.
He did kind of suck, compared to his usual standard of play, but there was still the rest of the team that didn't perform.
The biggest knock on Pronger I've heard so far, is his 8 minor penalties being the most in the tournament.
In 2010 if a player has a hangnail he should give up his spot to a healthy player. No way in h*ll is a one footed Pronger as good as a healthy Phaneuf.
Or a busted up Sakic being better than a healthy Spezza or Staal. If Blake had a sore groin he should have removed himself in favour of Boyle.
Add that all in with sending several players who should have been left home, and it is no wonder we lost.
If you want to narrow it down to one reason as to why Canada lost it is Pride. The pride of management that led to players like Doan, Draper, Bertuzzi, St. Louis, Smyth and Nash being on the team when there were clearly other players having better seasons. They ignored the efforts of players like Shanahan, Tanguay, Cheechoo, Staal, Spezza and Brind'amour in favour of personal favorites. Even though there is a history of chemistry with other Team Canada players. (Spezza/Healtey, Thornton/Cheechoo, Sakic/Tanguay)
There is also the pride of individual players who put their own personal agenda ahead of the welfare of the team. Blake and Pronger, if hurt, should have stayed home, and Sakic should have sat in favour of Staal or Spezza, after getting his cheek broke.
Hopefully this lesson will be remembered in 2009 when the next Olypmic team will be selected.
Olympic Stats: All I have been able to find is the top players in G,A, P & +/-. No team by team player stats though.
I think it was through the NBC website, but I could be wrong. Don't remember.
wildboy26
2-23-06, 3:21 PM
I agree Pronger and Blake should have removed themselves from the team if they were injured. The pride Canada has to have the best chance at gold should mean more than their extreme desire to play in the Olympics if not 100%.
Also another funny thing. How on earth did Rick Nash not get picked for the 2004 World Cup when he was having an awesome 2nd season in the NHL and ended the year tied for the league lead in goals, yet two years later barely playing any hockey he does make the team. Very strange selection criteria Team Canada has.
Max Power
2-23-06, 3:28 PM
I agree Pronger and Blake should have removed themselves from the team if they were injured. The pride Canada has to have the best chance at gold should mean more than their extreme desire to play in the Olympics if not 100%.
The players will play if they are not told otherwise. You can't change their competitive nature. The coaching staff is who needed to make the tough decisions but they were unable to... assumingly out of respect. As far as the D goes I'd rather have a partially healthy Pronger then most other D men but what pissis me off is again the coaching staff had these injured guys playing crucial minutes when a healthier player might have been more productive
Madferret
2-23-06, 3:51 PM
Also another funny thing. How on earth did Rick Nash not get picked for the 2004 World Cup when he was having an awesome 2nd season in the NHL and ended the year tied for the league lead in goals, yet two years later barely playing any hockey he does make the team. Very strange selection criteria Team Canada has.
lol
Maybe they listened to you..
Seriously though does anyone know a site where they have all the tournament stats etc. The IIHF site is a mess..
I'm using this to keep tabs statistically. It's not perfect but the best I can find. Not sure where you can find stats like ice-time, blocked shots, etc.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/results//5108481/detail.html
Madferret
2-23-06, 4:15 PM
Thanks Max & Andy..
TimmyTabasco
2-23-06, 5:35 PM
Alright, I'm not surprised Canada didn't win Gold..After watching Canada in the "pre-season"..I'm also not surprised they didn't medal.
The fact is, other countries have gotten better since 2002.
-2003 World Championships Final. Anson Carter scores in OT over Sweden
-2004 World Cup of Hockey Semi-Final. Canada wins in OT against the Czechs, who outplayed them.
-2004 World Cup of Hockey Final. Canada wins against the Finns, 2-1
-2005 World Championships Final. Canada loses 2-0 to the same Czech team from the World Cup.
These performances, were far from dominating. My point is, other countries have gotten better.
Newfie John
2-23-06, 5:48 PM
We should still be winning, handily. If we had the right lineup.
TimmyTabasco
2-23-06, 7:04 PM
We should still be winning, handily. If we had the right lineup.
Wasn't the team at the World Cup..a right lineup? Sure they won, but it wasn't handily
Newfie John
2-23-06, 7:39 PM
Wasn't the team at the World Cup..a right lineup? Sure they won, but it wasn't handily
IMHO, the World Cup probably had more fierce competition, and that team could still have been better.
If the team had played like the Canadian girls they might have done better. :D
I must agree. The women had to give up everything to practice: their jobs & their families. When the men come home they are still playing for millions of dollars.
No wonder they lack drive.:shrug:
Max Power
2-24-06, 9:46 AM
The team was saying last night that Redden was also playing with an injury.
That makes 4 + players who were playing with an injury
The team was saying last night that Redden was also playing with an injury.
That makes 4 + players who were playing with an injury
Our defence even with the injuries didn't play too bad but our forwards which were healthy played awful.You would think that with our injured defence that the forwards would have helped them out more but they didn't,very dissappointing!
Cheers
KB in Kelowna
2-24-06, 5:13 PM
as my learned colleague The Hack pointed out, it was the forwards that failed to produce. It was not like Canada was blown out of any games, it was that the offence failed to capitalize or create on scoring opportunities.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/jrthesportsczar/Gretzkycartoon.jpg
wildboy26
2-25-06, 7:03 PM
The players will play if they are not told otherwise. You can't change their competitive nature. The coaching staff is who needed to make the tough decisions but they were unable to... assumingly out of respect. As far as the D goes I'd rather have a partially healthy Pronger then most other D men but what pissis me off is again the coaching staff had these injured guys playing crucial minutes when a healthier player might have been more productive
I agree. Loyalty plays too big a role with the coaches. It is a joke Yzerman was gauranteed a spot by Grezxty this year if he wanted it.
wildboy26
2-25-06, 7:04 PM
lol
Maybe they listened to you..
Well I still say Nash should have been on the 04 World Cup team, but I now think they made a big mistake putting him on the 06 Olympic team. I think part of it is they wanted to make up for unfairingly leaving him off the first team, but I would love to think received some physiological vibe from me and chose based on that. :laughing:
TimmyTabasco
2-25-06, 7:08 PM
Hmm..
So where are the critics now? Many were critical, saying look at Russia..they included young stars on the roster, played as a team..and beat the Canadians
Alright, they beat the Canadians. However, in their last two games..they didn't score a goal
So, where is the media now? :thumb:
Hmm..
So where are the critics now? Many were critical, saying look at Russia..they included young stars on the roster, played as a team..and beat the Canadians
Alright, they beat the Canadians. However, in their last two games..they didn't score a goal
So, where is the media now? :thumb:
No Malkin :wave:
Bronze medal games don't mean ****.
TimmyTabasco
2-25-06, 9:22 PM
No Malkin :wave:
Bronze medal games don't mean ****.
How many players are on the Russian team? :thumb:
Well, I know Bronze medal games don't mean much..but its better than nothing
MadDevil
2-26-06, 12:17 AM
Hmm..
So where are the critics now? Many were critical, saying look at Russia..they included young stars on the roster, played as a team..and beat the Canadians
Alright, they beat the Canadians. However, in their last two games..they didn't score a goal
So, where is the media now? :thumb:
Interesting point you bring up there Timmy. It just proves that when an all-star team fails to win, the blame lies with the players more so than management.
I do think Canada could have done a better job putting their team together, but hindsight is always 20/20. There really is no excuse for a team with that much talent to play as badly as they did.
By the way, anybody else notice how the defense first teams of Finland and Sweden will be playing for the Gold? I guess that "boring defensive hockey" pays off after all.:thumb:
charlio lemieux
2-26-06, 12:34 AM
Interesting point you bring up there Timmy. It just proves that when an all-star team fails to win, the blame lies with the players more so than management.
I do think Canada could have done a better job putting their team together, but hindsight is always 20/20. There really is no excuse for a team with that much talent to play as badly as they did.
By the way, anybody else notice how the defense first teams of Finland and Sweden will be playing for the Gold? I guess that "boring defensive hockey" pays off after all.:thumb:
You should know all about the success of "boring defensive hockey", it's brought more Stanley Cups to NJ than it has season ticket holders. :wicked: :D ;)
Seriously though, this tournament and the hockey we have seen, makes me very glad that Shanahan and his Competition Committee, did the work that they did to give us the New NHL. I think that on top of the defensive play that some teams employed the layout of the rink had a huge impact. I am not talking about the extra width, but the placement of the lines. See how much room was behind the net. Couple that with the blue lines being 2 feet closer to the end boards, and there was almost no room in the offensive zone.
A salute to the Competion Committee!:thumb: Without them we would be watching this type of snoozer with even less room on the ice.
As for the Russians young stars. Ovetchkin has a hurt wrist, and something wrong with his skate. Kovalchuk got kicked out. Malkin choked on a breakaway. All-in-all if you had money on the Czech's it was a good day. :)
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