View Full Version : Official World Baseball Classic Thread
This is right around the corner...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/index
Although I fear it may get lost between the Olympics and March Madness. Should still be fun to watch.
There are a number of notables choosing not to play and I can't say that I blame them. Especially pitchers. This is a great idea but the timing is horrible. The only two realistic times to have this thing are 1) During the season, take a break like the NHL is doing now. or 2) After the World Series. I think if you polled the players, coaches and GM's - they would choose after the World series... because then it's least likely the tournament could impact their MLB seasons.
A-Rod will be suiting up for the US after all, despite originally opting to represent his parents homeland (the D.R.)
Teams and Rosters (not finalized yet) (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/news/story?id=2291416)
USA and Canada are both in Pool B along w/ Mexico and South Africa. All 4 will face each other March 7-10 in Arizona.
It looks like ESPN/ESPN2 is televising the entire tournament. :)
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 4:09 PM
The roster thing didn't work for me, but I still have the same question.
Is there any team that can compare to the US?
Leafs_Fa_Life
2-22-06, 4:49 PM
The roster thing didn't work for me, but I still have the same question.
Is there any team that can compare to the US?
Yeah. The Latin American and Caribbean teams all have talent.
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 4:58 PM
Yeah I know. Japan has some good players too. But are they capable of beating the US?
Leafs_Fa_Life
2-22-06, 5:02 PM
Yeah I know. Japan has some good players too. But are they capable of beating the US?
Puerto Rico and the Dominican should field rosters that might even be able to beat the States.
The one advantage the U.S. might have is Clemens doens't have a contract right now, and if he does sign, won't do so till after May. So they can pitch him till his arm falls off. The other pitchers have to report to camp afterwards and I doubt early in March any guys will be in for any longer than 2 or 3 innings.
charlio lemieux
2-22-06, 5:10 PM
2-3 innings, right. That is going to take alot of pitchers.
So countries who don't have a lot of players in the MLB may have a better pitching situation. With players being able to go 6+ innings.
Leafs_Fa_Life
2-22-06, 5:17 PM
Probably not. A non-major league pitcher will be like batting practice for the better offensive teams in the tournament.
For the most part, I don't think the WBC will be that good (I hope I'm wrong). Looking forward to a U.S.-Dominican final though. Should be a great game.
U.S., D.R., Canada, Puerto Rico are the top teams.
D.R. has the best batting lineup of all IMO. However they probably cannot match the pitching depth of the U.S. especially if Pedro does not participate.
I agree with LFL but I hope I'm wrong too. If they want this thing to be a success, they need to hold the tournament at a more reasonable time of year.
When Selig put this to vote, only George Steinbrenner objected. But watch, all it's gonna take is a few key injuries to persuade the rest of the clubs to re-consider having this during Spring training.
Not only that but a lot of guys are simply opting not to play so they can concentrate on getting ready for the upcoming MLB season. Some are competing for starting jobs even.
Sportsnet's Baseball Schedule (http://www2.sportsnet.ca/tvschedule/tvsked_sport.php?region=ONTARIO&schedule_id=20).
leaferfan87
2-28-06, 11:03 AM
I wish that they could do this at another point in the off-season. Right now there are too many people worried about injuries so they are not playing. If it was a little earlier that worry might be eased a little and more players would be inclined to play.
Man look down the list of headlines on the right side of this page.
More bad news than good. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/index :no:
leaferfan87
3-08-06, 11:34 AM
Canada got a bit of a scare yesterday beating South Africa 11-8. South Africa actually led at points of this game, which isn't good considering they only have two or three players who are actually in somebody's minor league system.
What a difference for Team Canada if Gagne and Dempster (or even just one) agreed to pitch.
wildboy26
3-08-06, 3:03 PM
If Rich Harden had been healthy might he have made the team?
Harden? he's a top of the line ace. fast ball in the high 90's. He's got a bright future if injuries don't stifle his career.
Canucklehead
3-08-06, 5:39 PM
Anybody watching today's game? 7-0 Canada in the 4th! :eek:
Newfie John
3-08-06, 5:52 PM
8-0 Canada lol.
Its now final,Canada beats the U.S. 8-6!!!:thumb:
Cheers
Newfie John
3-08-06, 7:14 PM
The Miracle on Dirt!
leaferfan87
3-08-06, 7:19 PM
The Miracle on Dirt!
What a gutsy effort by everybody. Wow, this is amazing.
wildboy26
3-09-06, 11:13 AM
Now I see why the team has so much pitching depth Harden could not have made the team even if healthy.
Now I see why the team has so much pitching depth Harden could not have made the team even if healthy.
I disagree with that. Harden would definitely be in the lineup.
wildboy26
3-09-06, 11:44 AM
I disagree with that. Harden would definitely be in the lineup.
Well if he would have been this was probably his last chance to be. Next time around there will be no room for him with Loewen making such a great debut(and he will be in the majors by then I bet), Bedard, and Francis, and who knows will be on the radar by then.
The Miracle on Dirt!
That's clever.
Good job, Canada!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/jrthesportsczar/CANbaseball.jpg
Leafs_Fa_Life
3-09-06, 3:50 PM
Well if he would have been this was probably his last chance to be. Next time around there will be no room for him with Loewen making such a great debut(and he will be in the majors by then I bet), Bedard, and Francis, and who knows will be on the radar by then.
Canada's not that deep where Harden won't be able to make the team next time around. Harden has a larger upside than any of the guys you mentioned, and is still in his early 20s.
wildboy26
3-09-06, 3:56 PM
Canada's not that deep where Harden won't be able to make the team next time around. Harden has a larger upside than any of the guys you mentioned, and is still in his early 20s.
How do you know Francis, Bedard, Loewen, will not all be asked ahead of him next time, they are all young and could all be very estbalished major league players by then. If he was not injured, well maybe he would have been Canada's #3 starter this time ahead of Loewen, or maybe they still would have gone with Loewen because of his promise.
Leafs_Fa_Life
3-09-06, 4:19 PM
Francis, Bedard, Loewen, will all be asked ahead of him next time, heck I bet they would have been this time even if he was not injured, well maybe he would have been Canada's #3 starter this time ahead of Loewen but Loewen will be in the majors by 2010 and there will be 3 guys to fill out the main starting rotation for Canada over Harden by then.
Where you part of the group that selected Team Canada to make such a crazy remark? Francis and Bedard have potential, but have been nothing to write home about in their time in the majors. Loewen hasn't even shown he can pitch in the majors yet. Harden meanwhile is regarded as one of the best young arms in the game (well one of the best arms in general). A guy who has legitimate Cy Young upside. If Harden isn't picked by Canada, it's because Harden didn't wanna play for Canada, not the other way around.
Do you just make stupid comments to sh*t disturb, btw?
wildboy26
3-09-06, 4:31 PM
If Harden had been able to pitch they probably would have used him against the U.S which was where the #3 pitcher for Canada was going to pitch probably.
By 2010 Loewen will be a major leager and an extremely good one, and Francis and Bedard will be even better than they are now.
Leafs_Fa_Life
3-09-06, 5:19 PM
If Harden had been able to pitch they probably would have used him against the U.S which was where the #3 pitcher for Canada was going to pitch probably.
Exactly. If he had been able to pitch, they would've put him out against the best team in their pool. In a short tourney like this, what order in the rotation you're in means nothing. It's set so your best pitcher starts against the best team and the worst pitcher starts against the worst team.
By 2010 Loewen will be a major leager and an extremely good one, and Francis and Bedard will be even better than they are now.
So Harden will remain stagnant the next four years? At such a young age he already keeps opponent's batting average close to .200, has a WHIP close to 1, K/9 ratio is extremely good, and his K/BB ratio is also very good for a young pitcher. The only thing Harden has going against him is his small frame, but Oswalt has been able to last in the majors and Harden has the stuff to have similar success in his career. He'll consistently compete for Cy Youngs over the next decade.
wildboy26
3-09-06, 5:40 PM
Exactly. If he had been able to pitch, they would've put him out against the best team in their pool. In a short tourney like this, what order in the rotation you're in means nothing. It's set so your best pitcher starts against the best team and the worst pitcher starts against the worst team.
Actually the best pitcher was going to pitch the most important game. Are you saying Loewen is considered the best pitcher over Francis and Bedard? He is the one who pitched against the U.S after all. In this touranment the best pitcher would probably pitch vs Mexico which was considered the make it or break it game before the event; second best vs South Africa who Canada definitely should beat but still need to make sure of beating; and the third best vs the U.S who Canada had almost conceded to probably not beat before the event. So if Harden was going to be the ace he would probably have pitched vs Mexico, unless they somehow felt with him they were so strong they had a chance vs the U.S.
So Harden will remain stagnant the next four years? At such a young age he already keeps opponent's batting average close to .200, has a WHIP close to 1, K/9 ratio is extremely good, and his K/BB ratio is also very good for a young pitcher. The only thing Harden has going against him is his small frame, but Oswalt has been able to last in the majors and Harden has the stuff to have similar success in his career. He'll consistently compete for Cy Youngs over the next decade.
He will improve but not enough to pitch at the next World Baseball Classic for Canada who will have a sensational pitching corps by then.
Leafs_Fa_Life
3-09-06, 5:51 PM
Actually the best pitcher was going to pitch the most important game. Are you saying Loewen is considered the best pitcher over Francis and Bedard? He is the one who pitched against the U.S after all. In this touranment the best pitcher would probably pitch vs Mexico which was considered the make it or break it game before the event; second best vs South Africa who Canada definitely should beat but still need to make sure of beating; and the third best vs the U.S who Canada had almost conceded to probably not beat before the event. So if Harden was going to be the ace he would probably have pitched vs Mexico, unless they somehow felt with him they were so strong they had a chance vs the U.S.
Francis and Bedard haven't exactly lit the world on fire.
He will improve but not enough to pitch at the next World Baseball Classic for Canada who will have a sensational pitching corps by then.
He's already better than any Canadian pitcher, and will be better than any Canadian pitcher 4 years from now. His stuff is as nasty as it gets. I'm not trying to bash guys like Francis and Bedard. Both have potential and should hopefully develop into good starting pitchers in the majors, but I doubt either will contend for a Cy Young, whereas Harden is already a legit contender for the award. Besides, a pitching staff doens't consist of only 3 players. Does Canada have more than 10 pitchers capable of blocking him if they decide to do this dumb tournament again? The answer is, no! Canada doens't even have 10 major league calibre pitchers.
wildboy26
3-09-06, 6:11 PM
Francis and Bedard haven't exactly lit the world on fire.
So are you saying Canada considered Loewen their ace, atleast with Harden out? If the best pitcher pitches vs the U.S that is what you are saying right.
He's already better than any Canadian pitcher, and will be better than any Canadian pitcher 4 years from now. His stuff is as nasty as it gets. I'm not trying to bash guys like Francis and Bedard. Both have potential and should hopefully develop into good starting pitchers in the majors, but I doubt either will contend for a Cy Young, whereas Harden is already a legit contender for the award. Besides, a pitching staff doens't consist of only 3 players. Does Canada have more than 10 pitchers capable of blocking him if they decide to do this dumb tournament again? The answer is, no! Canada doens't even have 10 major league calibre pitchers.
Ok let me rephrase that, he wont make Canada's top 3 starting pitchers next time and will either be used in a different role or as their 4th or 5th starter if they go to one later in the tournament. :D
Man deja-vu with the Chris Holt nonsense. :rolleyes:
Wildboy do you follow MLB closely? Harden is not just one of the brightest young baseball stars from Canada... he is one of the brightest young pitchers in all of Major League Baseball.
LFL knows - he is Cy Young material. His stuff is blistering. IIRC he was throwing 98 MPH fast balls before getting injured last season. Teams fear it when he starts. He's that good.
If he can stay clear of injuries... there's no reason he won't be Canada's #1 pitcher for years to come.
Wow, the first game I watch of this tournament, Canada gets blown out 9-1 at the hands of Mexico.
The Mexicans quickly jumped out to a 4-0 lead on a bunch of doubles with two outs in the first. Canada's pitching just wasn't there tonight and it looks like their run at the WBC will end tommorow when the American beat South Africa.
wildboy26
3-10-06, 11:19 AM
Well after talking to some more people recently I now concede if Harden agreed to pitch or was healthy enough to pitch he would have been Canada`s 2 starter behind Francis. Still I think this was his last chance ever to pitch as one of the 3-man starting rotation at the World Baseball Classic, assuming they go with the same system they used this time. Bedard and Francis are already major leaguers who performed at the World Classic before, so they wont be taken off the squad 4 years later when both have improved from where they are now when they were on the squad and did a great job. Loewen pitched 3 shutout innings vs the U.S as a minor leaguer, no way will he be left off the squad as a major leaguer next time. Oh and dont forget about Shawn Hill who is another big time up and comer. It will be heard enough to pick the 3-man starting rotation next time as it is, there will be no room for Harden on it. Still Harden might be offered a job as a long reliever or the spare starter next time around.
leaferfan87
3-10-06, 3:25 PM
Well after talking to some more people recently I now concede if Harden agreed to pitch or was healthy enough to pitch he would have been Canada`s 2 starter behind Francis. Still I think this was his last chance ever to pitch as one of the 3-man starting rotation at the World Baseball Classic, assuming they go with the same system they used this time. Bedard and Francis are already major leaguers who performed at the World Classic before, so they wont be taken off the squad 4 years later when both have improved from where they are now when they were on the squad and did a great job. Loewen pitched 3 shutout innings vs the U.S as a minor leaguer, no way will he be left off the squad as a major leaguer next time. Oh and dont forget about Shawn Hill who is another big time up and comer. It will be heard enough to pick the 3-man starting rotation next time as it is, there will be no room for Harden on it. Still Harden might be offered a job as a long reliever or the spare starter next time around.
A long reliever! Harden could very well be among the elite starters in baseball if he stays healthy. He most certainly won't be a long reliever.
wildboy26
3-10-06, 3:45 PM
A long reliever! Harden could very well be among the elite starters in baseball if he stays healthy. He most certainly won't be a long reliever.
But there wont be room for him since Loewen and Bedard played shuout ball in their debuts at this event and wont be kept of the starting rotation after doing that in their debuts, when they will be better pitchers next time around; and Francis is too highly regarded to be left off the starting rotation; plus you have up and comer Shawn Hill. They will make up the 3 or 4 man starting rotation next time leaving no room for Harden and relegating him to another role.
Leafs_Fa_Life
3-10-06, 5:59 PM
But there wont be room for him since Loewen and Bedard played shuout ball in their debuts at this event and wont be kept of the starting rotation after doing that in their debuts, when they will be better pitchers next time around; and Francis is too highly regarded to be left off the starting rotation; plus you have up and comer Shawn Hill. They will make up the 3 or 4 man starting rotation next time leaving no room for Harden and relegating him to another role.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
No way is Team Canada gonna leave one of the best pitchers in the league (Harden) out of the rotation because of loyalty to guys like Francis and Bedard. It's not like they're 10 year vets that have proven themselves for the country to put so much blind faith in them. The three best Canadian pitchers four years from now will be the starters, and odds are Harden will be one of them since he's the only Canadian starter currently in the majors that has proven he can make major league hitters look like Little Leaguers.
wildboy26
3-11-06, 12:04 PM
Who do you think Canada would have used as the 3 top starters had Harden, Francis, Bedard, Shawn Hill, and Loewen all made themselves available? I believe if all of those were available Francis, Bedard, and Hill would have been the 3-man starting rotation but if Hill had still pulled out it would have allowed Bedard to be the #3 starter after Francis and Bedard.
8 teams left.
Korea
United States
Mexico
Japan
Puerto Rico
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Venezuela
The mighty D.R. is against the ropes after losing to Puerto Rico in Game 1 of Round 2.
Beltre has 4 homers in this tournament... last season I don't think he hit 4 homers in the first 2 months!
But there wont be room for him since Loewen and Bedard played shuout ball in their debuts at this event and wont be kept of the starting rotation after doing that in their debuts, when they will be better pitchers next time around; and Francis is too highly regarded to be left off the starting rotation; plus you have up and comer Shawn Hill. They will make up the 3 or 4 man starting rotation next time leaving no room for Harden and relegating him to another role.
I think that your crystal ball is cracked. Time to get a new and more logical one.
leaferfan87
3-13-06, 3:41 PM
But there wont be room for him since Loewen and Bedard played shuout ball in their debuts at this event and wont be kept of the starting rotation after doing that in their debuts, when they will be better pitchers next time around; and Francis is too highly regarded to be left off the starting rotation; plus you have up and comer Shawn Hill. They will make up the 3 or 4 man starting rotation next time leaving no room for Harden and relegating him to another role.
Harden is already an excellent pitcher in the MLB. Loewen and Bedard have tons of potential, but have yet to prove anything at the Major League level. Do you think for one second that Whitt would not put his best players on the mound? That would be stupid, you have one of the best pitchers in the MLB able to represent your country, you start him. You don't let him sit in the bullpen rotting. If you have the talent, use it!
wildboy26
3-14-06, 12:15 PM
I still believe if Hill, Harden, Francis, Bedard, and Loewen had all been available this time Hill, Francis, and Bedard would have been your 3-man starting rotation chosen; and next time if Hill, Harden, Francis, Bedard, and Loewen are all availabe it will be Loewen, Francis, and Hill as your 3-man starting rotation. Harden is probably 4th or 5th pick both times, he would have been this time and he will be next time, and he would need atleast one injury to be part of the starting rotation.
In fact I bet if Shawn Hill had pulled out earlier Harden would have taken part. I bet he was talked by Ernie Whitt that he was not part of the starting 3 initialy, and would be a long reliever, and that is why he said he was too injured to play, and then when Hill pulled out at the last minute which would have opened up a spot for him to fight for the #3 starting position with Loewen it was too late.
If somebody e-mails a baseball expert with inside information that says I am totally wrong then I will believe I am wrong. Other than that I just dont.
Leafs_Fa_Life
3-14-06, 12:24 PM
Just answer me one question. What have any of these guys done to say they should've been starters over Harden at this year's WBC?
A lot of nonsense comes off your keyboard, but you don't really have anything solid to back it up. So right now, just please tell everyone why an established major league talent would get the shaft over a minor leaguer, a guy with a .311 opponent's BAA (Francis), and a guy with a spectacular 1.38 WHIP (Bedard) :rolleyes:.
wildboy26
3-14-06, 6:06 PM
Just answer me one question. What have any of these guys done to say they should've been starters over Harden at this year's WBC?
A lot of nonsense comes off your keyboard, but you don't really have anything solid to back it up. So right now, just please tell everyone why an established major league talent would get the shaft over a minor leaguer, a guy with a .311 opponent's BAA (Francis), and a guy with a spectacular 1.38 WHIP (Bedard) :rolleyes:.
I dont think one of them neccessarily should be over Harden, Harden probably should be Canada`s ace, but I get the impression he is on the outs when I read articles leading into the World Baseball Classic. Even reading 10 months ago when it looked likely he would play the Classic the role they talked about him playing in the articles I read seemed to be a diminished one.
After the ridiculous selections for our mens hockey team, with the conspiracies around the mens soccer team, etc....I have no faith in Canadian selection people to honor the best people with the roles they deserve.
Team America Bombed VS Team America has isolated.
Should be a classic :)
After the ridiculous selections for our mens hockey team, with the conspiracies around the mens soccer team, etc....I have no faith in Canadian selection people to honor the best people with the roles they deserve.
I think you are distorting the facts. The three are unrelated.
What the hell???
SAN DIEGO -- Tom Lasorda still cannot understand what happened to Team USA in the World Baseball Classic.
"The United States had a very good team, so them not reaching the semifinals was something really bad," Lasorda told ESPNdeportes.com at Petco Park in San Diego.
South Korea, Japan, the Dominican Republic and Cuba captured the four semifinal berths for the Classic, which started March 2 with 16 teams divided into four groups.
The final will be played on Monday, between the winners of the Saturday matchups.
The United States was favored to win the first world championship featuring major-league players. But they crashed out after losing 2-1 to Mexico on Thursday and left the tournament with a 3-3 record.
"No one knows how such a good team could lose. It was a great surprise," said Lasorda.
Lasorda, the former Los Angeles Dodgers manager and a member of the Hall of Fame, was named goodwill ambassador for the World Baseball Classic.
"In my current position, I cannot pick my favorite team, but I can say I don't want Cuba to win, definitely," said Lasorda, who played professionally on the island in the 1940s and 1950s.
"And I can also say that no matter how good the U.S. team was, the Dominican Republic has the best team," added Lasorda.
Lasorda also said that the event has been a complete success, something he had anticipated when he spread the gospel of the competition among the participating countries.
"We've been successful in making baseball go global. And the fans have witnessed a great tournament," said Lasorda.
The goodwill ambassador for the WBC? riiiiiiiight
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