CBC monopolizing hockey in Canada

[Max Power]

CBC has canceled an Ottawa Senators broadcast this Saturday
This is a farce again by our so called national broadcast station.
I understand why they might not make much money off a local broadcast but don't tell me they don't make some money. They could easily make more money if they split the broadcast allowing westerners to see the Ottawa game and Easterners the Leaf game (excluding Ottawa).

At the least if they don't want to broadcast Sens games then sell the rights to the game to other networks. Obviously they wouldn't because they're not about Canada they're about profits. I'd be willing to bet if TSN broadcasted a Sens game on a Saturday they'd lose more then half of their western viewers

Please take the time to write a quick paragraph to CBC. I know most leaf fans won?t because it?s all about them but any of you that are real hockey fans and don?t like CBC monopolizing hockey in Canada please do the same

http://www.cbc.ca/contact/index.jsp

[Max Power]

Just a note that someone else pointed out to me... These are two of the best teams in the league that CBC deems unnecessary to broadcast

[Newfie John]

You make a good point. They're all about profits. Obviously they feel they'll get a bigger profit by showing all leafs. Thats the way it is, and its just business and it makes sense for all sides, except for Sen fans. Fact is, there are more leaf fans then there are sens fans, so they will show more leafs. If I had it my way, everyone would be able to see their favourite teams all the time. The way the business is runned, unfortunately that can't happen.

FTR, if anyone thinks HNIC are showing games for the "good of hockey", that's just simply naive.

[Max Power]

You make a good point. They're all about profits. Obviously they feel they'll get a bigger profit by showing all leafs. Thats the way it is, and its just business and it makes sense for all sides, except for Sen fans. Fact is, there are more leaf fans then there are sens fans, so they will show more leafs. If I had it my way, everyone would be able to see their favourite teams all the time. The way the business is runned, unfortunately that can't happen.

FTR, if anyone thinks HNIC are showing games for the "good of hockey", that's just simply naive.

That's exactly the point... Sort of
I don't think it has anything to do with the amount of fans of any particular team.
They don't want to dish out the extra cash to broadcast a second game but at the same time they won't allow anybody else the rights to them. If they broadcast a game in Ottawa they essentially double their operating cost while only pleasing a minority of viewers. CBC gambles and gambles well on the assumption that most people outside southern Ontario will flick on the TV to watch hockey even if their team is not playing. CBC essentially cuts their operating cost without losing to much on the ratings since most people will turn on the TV regardless who is playing.

Now if CBC gave let's say TSN the right to air the Sens game, it would gives viewers across the nation a choice. How much do you want to bet that CBC would lose half their ratings.
It's a selfish monopolizing act by CBC and I'm sick of it. Canadians need to start complaining

[Madferret]

When did they cancel it Maxy?

[Newfie John]

That's exactly the point... Sort of
I don't think it has anything to do with the amount of fans of any particular team.
They don't want to dish out the extra cash to broadcast a second game but at the same time they won't allow anybody else the rights to them. If they broadcast a game in Ottawa they essentially double their operating cost while only pleasing a minority of viewers. CBC gambles and gambles well on the assumption that most people outside southern Ontario will flick on the TV to watch hockey even if their team is not playing. CBC essentially cuts their operating cost without losing to much on the ratings since most people will turn on the TV regardless who is playing.

Now if CBC gave let's say TSN the right to air the Sens game, it would gives viewers across the nation a choice. How much do you want to bet that CBC would lose half their ratings.
It's a selfish monopolizing act by CBC and I'm sick of it. Canadians need to start complaining

Take a look at the stands of the buildings out west. Often times you hear "GO LEAFS GO" coming from those buildings when the leafs are there. Last time the leafs played Ottawa at the Scotiabank place(or whatever its called) there were even cheers of GO LEAFS GO. Hell, even in Florida it was happening. It's a business decision. If they gave the rights to a Sens game to say TSN, they would lose some dollars. Not half, and certainly not most. On Saturday nights they're the only hockey on TV. They have all the leaf fans watching the games(more fans then any other team, and a lot of fans EVERYWHERE throughout Canada) plus some of the hockey fans in general. If they gave the rights to TSN to some other games, they would lose some of those indifferent hockey fans. Thats just business and it sucks for a lot of fans in Canada, but they can't please everyone. If they do please everyone, they're losing their own revenue. I'm not saying thats right or wrong, its just the way it is.

[Madferret]

John, I think you missed the point.

[charlio lemieux]

I sympathise with you and I even started to write CBC, but I got halfway through and realized it is simple numbers. Where do you show a Senators game in this country and get more viewers than you would showing a Leafs game? The only place, outside Quebec is in the immediate Ottawa area. In Quebec the Sens are against the second most popular team in the Canadiens. In Quebec, who will get more viewers, Ottawa or Montreal?

I guess CBC has a hard time justifying a broadcast that will reach a maximum of a million people, and a good chunk of that million are Quebecers and potential Habs fans. Not all of those people are going to watch. The price of advertising drops dramatically when potential viewers drop from around 9million for Toronto and most of Ontario, to around 1million for Ottawa, Hull and the surrounding area. They probably couldn't earn enough in local advertising in Ottawa to cover the costs of a broadcast.
Now personally I would like to see Ottawa more often, and I don't mean against the Leafs.
Why not show the game outside the Ottawa region?
Well, when the Sens can put 3000-5000 Ottawa fans in every building in the country they will get their fair share of air time. But right now there would be too much backlash, to remove Toronto from the schedule.
It's too bad really. The Sens are one of the best teams to watch. I have already watched atleast one of their games on TSN instead of heading to the bar to watch stupid Leafs TV. If they did get more national coverage they would soon build up a much larger fan base. But they will have trouble building a fan base without the help of national coverage. And around we go.

Next year CBC should use it's influence in the schedule making to have one Ontario team out west, and the other at home during inter-conference play. Atleast that way Ottawa would get more nationally televised games. Hopefully there will be more inter-conference games as well.

You should atleast be able to watch the game on Center Ice if it is no longer being broadcast locally.

[Newfie John]

John, I think you missed the point.

I got the point, its to feel bad for you guys and fight the cause for "the good of hockey". Fact is, its just not going to happen in reality. It doesn't make sense for the business, CBC.

[Newfie John]

I sympathise with you and I even started to write CBC, but I got halfway through and realized it is simple numbers. Where do you show a Senators game in this country and get more viewers than you would showing a Leafs game? The only place, outside Quebec is in the immediate Ottawa area. In Quebec the Sens are against the second most popular team in the Canadiens. In Quebec, who will get more viewers, Ottawa or Montreal?

I guess CBC has a hard time justifying a broadcast that will reach a maximum of a million people, and a good chunk of that million are Quebecers and potential Habs fans. Not all of those people are going to watch. The price of advertising drops dramatically when potential viewers drop from around 9million for Toronto and most of Ontario, to around 1million for Ottawa, Hull and the surrounding area. They probably couldn't earn enough in local advertising in Ottawa to cover the costs of a broadcast.
Now personally I would like to see Ottawa more often, and I don't mean against the Leafs.
Why not show the game outside the Ottawa region?
Well, when the Sens can put 3000-5000 Ottawa fans in every building in the country they will get their fair share of air time. But right now there would be too much backlash, to remove Toronto from the schedule.
It's too bad really. The Sens are one of the best teams to watch. I have already watched atleast one of their games on TSN instead of heading to the bar to watch stupid Leafs TV. If they did get more national coverage they would soon build up a much larger fan base. But they will have trouble building a fan base without the help of national coverage. And around we go.

Next year CBC should use it's influence in the schedule making to have one Ontario team out west, and the other at home during inter-conference play. Atleast that way Ottawa would get more nationally televised games. Hopefully there will be more inter-conference games as well.

You should atleast be able to watch the game on Center Ice if it is no longer being broadcast locally.

Which leads me to my point that CBC doesn't care about the Ottawa Senators or their fanbase until they have the biggest in Canada.

[Madferret]

Oh come on, no ones asking anyone to feel sorry for 'Sens' fans.
We're asking you to complain to the CBC with us...:o

[Madferret]

Which leads me to my point that CBC doesn't care about the Ottawa Senators or their fanbase until they have the biggest in Canada.

I think the more accurate conclusion is that the CBC doesn't care about any other team in Canada aside from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[Max Power]

It has nothing to do with leaf fans you manage to turn it into that... Is this all you have to grasp?
You can make any damn excuses you want but I'd be willing to bet that Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary fans would just love to watch two of the best teams in the league battle it out rather then two of the worse.
Yes you have fans all over BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT

[Newfie John]

I think the more accurate conclusion is that the CBC doesn't care about any other team in Canada aside from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Sad isn't it, but thats the way it is. It's not because they're leaf fans though, which is what you're thinking I'm sure. It's simply because the Leafs have more fans then anyone else. Naturally, they will show the leafs over the Sens. I can't see why this doesn't make sense to you.

[Newfie John]

For ^*+%ing crying out loud when will you leaf fans get over yourself.

It has nothing to do with you guys but you manage to turn it into that... Is this all you have to grasp?
You can make any damn excuses you want but I'd be willing to bet that Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary fans would just love to watch two of the best teams in the league battle it out rather then two of the worse.
Yes you have fans all over BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT

Yes it is. How do you know that Van fans, or Calgary fans, or Edmonton fans would rather watch the Sens? Why? The thousands of leaf fans in those team's buildings suggest to me they'd rather see the leafs. Once again I say, thats the way it is.

[Madferret]

It does make sense to me John.
Calling it 'Hockey Night in Canada' does not make sense to me however.

[Newfie John]

It does make sense to me John.
Calling it 'Hockey Night in Canada' does not make sense to me however.

Makes sense to me. The show is about showing hockey. So I have that part down. It comes on in the night, so I've got that part. I'm guessing you're referring to the "in Canada" part? Simple. Leaf fans have the most in Canada then any other team. Plus, on part 2, other Canadian teams, sometimes 2, are shown. Sometimes 4 teams are shown on HNIC. On HDIC, 6 canadian teams are shown. I know the common denominator is that the leafs play on all of these occasions and are never left out. The reason for that I've already described. Also, since leaf fans are widespread throughout the country of Canada, it makes sense. :boogie:

:wicked:

[Max Power]

Yes it is. How do you know that Van fans, or Calgary fans, or Edmonton fans would rather watch the Sens? Why? The thousands of leaf fans in those team's buildings suggest to me they'd rather see the leafs. Once again I say, thats the way it is.


This is going to turn into a bash fest and it's all because leaf fans need to point out how they are superior in numbers. It's sad that you can't follow the topic and have to turn it into a one dimensional conversation. The point is that this is about CBC cutting cost while getting the same ratings because most viewers will still tune in.
Same would happen if the MILLIONS of leaf fans out west were forced to watch the Sens. They might not like it but a good number of them will still tune it to watch hockey.
If you need to pat yourself on the back about how great the number of leaf fans are out west even though Calgary and Vancouver tickets against Ottawa were the most sought after all year then start a new thread

[charlio lemieux]

In 1999 sports broadcasts:

English TV 13% schedule; 24% audience; 40% advertising revenue

French TV 8% schedule, 6% audience; 16% advertising revenue

Hockey Night In Canada (HNIC) is the primary source of CBC advertising revenue annually, with Olympics coverage also generating positive cash flow. Last season HNIC averaged 1.16 million viewers during regular season and 1.733 million for the Stanley Cup Final.

In the real world of business Molson Inc. decided against returning to HNIC as the show's exclusive beer advertiser. "It's too much money for too few viewers," said Dan O'Neill, Molson's president and CEO. HNIC television revenues are well below the levels of other professional sports. CBC's five-year deal, which began this season, is worth a reported $300 million.


So if advertisers were bitching in 1999 that they were paying too much money for too few viewers on a NATIONAL level, why the heck would they want to pay for advertizing on a local broadcast. If you are paying an average sum for each time your ad is shown on HNIC, no business in their right mind would advertise to less than 100,000 people, when they could advertise to over a Million.

[Max Power]

Charlio if Ottawa can produce enough money for Sportsnet or A Chanel to play regular Sens games every year then CBC can too
The point of my post has everything to do with CBC screwing Canadian viewers for maximum profit and nothing to do with who is playing.

[charlio lemieux]

Sportsnet and Channel A are regional stations. It costs them a lot less to produce the coverage. Plus they don't have national sponsors crying about paying to be broadcast locally.

The point of my post has everything to do with CBC screwing Canadian viewers for maximum profit and nothing to do with who is playing.
So running a business with some fiscal responsibility is now called "screwing canadian viewers". What is with this mindset that any Govt. run entity should lose money hand over fist?

It is too bad it happened. As I said in my first post I have watched atleast one Sens game on TSN instead of going to a bar to watch the Leafs. I like the Sens, I think they are an exciting team to watch. They are more entertaining than the Leafs most nights. However that changes nothing.
In the eyes of the sponsors the Leafs have bigger numbers, ergo more people will tune in and see their commercials. So the Leafs get the National coverage.
The sponsors have alot of influence in decision making. Perhaps they exercised some of that influence here.

[Newfie John]

This is going to turn into a bash fest and it's all because leaf fans need to point out how they are superior in numbers. It's sad that you can't follow the topic and have to turn it into a one dimensional conversation. The point is that this is about CBC cutting cost while getting the same ratings because most viewers will still tune in.
Same would happen if the MILLIONS of leaf fans out west were forced to watch the Sens. They might not like it but a good number of them will still tune it to watch hockey.
If you need to pat yourself on the back about how great the number of leaf fans are out west even though Calgary and Vancouver tickets against Ottawa were the most sought after all year then start a new thread

No one is forced to watch the leafs. If they don't want to watch them all they have to do is turn off the TV. Bottom line is, actually I don't even have to say it. I've said it over and over. Also, could you provide a link as to the information that Ottawa tickets were the most sought after in those cities? I find that very interesting because when do you hear "Go Sens Go" in other buildings other then in Ottawa? If it does, it doesn't happen nearly as much to them as it does the Maple Leafs.

[a4l]

The NHL did the CBC a dis-service many years ago by trying to be smart asses. Read all about it in Power Plays by Gil Stein. Love him or hate him it just shows how "honest" these peole are. I hate the fact I have to watch the Laffs week after week (unless I get tickets for Ottawa games).

Just cut the crap and put me in charge of the NHL.

[a4l]

No one is forced to watch the leafs. If they don't want to watch them all they have to do is turn off the TV.

So those of us trapped in Laff territory can't watch hockey? Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Newfie John]

So those of us trapped in Laff territory can't watch hockey? Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't say that.

[charlio lemieux]

NHL on TSN
It's a doubleheader starting with Dany Heatley and the Ottawa Senators visiting Martin Brodeur and the New Jersey Devils, today at 7:30pm/4:30pm pt. The game is also available on . After that, Rick Nash and the Columbus Blue Jackets take on Jarome Iginla and the Calgary Flames at 10pm et/7pm pt.
Funny I don't see a leaf in sight and yet there are two hockey games on in Leafs region.

[Newfie John]

Funny I don't see a leaf in sight and yet there are two hockey games on in Leafs region.

This is an outrage!

:wicked:

[a4l]

Didn't say that.
So what is your solutioon?

[Max Power]

Charlio you're not making any Sens and you’re starting to sound like NJ =]

Let me point out the obvious to you leaf fans who must turn everything about yourselves like if your defending the cup

Leaf coverage and fans nation wide = X
Sens converge and fans Ottawa area only = Y

Sponsors get viewers of X = Happy
Sponsors get viewers of X and Y = Ecstatic

The only reasonable argument you made is CBC is a business and is trying to make as much money as they can. But your argument fails when you try to tell me the sponsors wouldn’t want CBC to fork out some extra dough to attract more fans by doing a local broadcast in some areas.

Either way I agree with you that CBC is trying to make as much money as possible but that’s my argument and that’s what I’m pissed about because it’s at our expense (and the sponsors now that you mention it).


So those of us trapped in Laff territory can't watch hockey? Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol
good one

Funny I don't see a leaf in sight and yet there are two hockey games on in Leafs region.

What does that have to do with anything

[charlio lemieux]

Charlio you're not making any Sens and you’re starting to sound like NJ =]

Let me point out the obvious to you leaf fans who must turn everything about yourselves like if your defending the cup

Leaf coverage and fans nation wide = X
Sens converge and fans Ottawa area only = Y
Actually Nationwide coverage = X+Y

Sponsors get viewers of X = Happy
Sponsors get viewers of X and Y = Ecstatic
Sponsors get viewers of X and Y anyway.

The only reasonable argument you made is CBC is a business and is trying to make as much money as they can. But your argument fails when you try to tell me the sponsors wouldn’t want CBC to fork out some extra dough to attract more fans by doing a local broadcast in some areas.
No you are backwards. It is the sponsors who don't want to pay their national rate to advertise an additional commercial that the same people would be seeing anyway without the local broadcast.
Either way I agree with you that CBC is trying to make as much money as possible but that’s my argument and that’s what I’m pissed about because it’s at our expense (and the sponsors now that you mention it).


What does that have to do with anything
So those of us trapped in Laff territory can't watch hockey? Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!That's what.

[Max Power]

I have no clue what that thread is supposed to mean but as for the one bolded part
If CBC had a local broadcast for Ottawa only the viewers from the Ottawa area WOULD increase and sponsors would get a larger portion of viewers on top of the national audience of TO

[Newfie John]

Maxi Pad, in order to get X and Y CBC has to lose some of X. They lose more money that way. Which is why this decision is made, because they're a business. Thats the way a business is runned, to make as much money as possible.

[charlio lemieux]

If the game is broadcast nationally the commercials are already being seen in the Ottawa region. So why spend more money to air the same ads?
If the CBC isn't going to get more sponsorship money, why would they bother with an additional broadcast?
It makes no sense to have two broadcasts at the same time when the the additional viewers you will get is next to nothing.
I am a leafs fan and I watch other hockey games. I am sure many Sens fans will still watch HNIC. As will non-Sens fans in the Ottawa area.

[Max Power]

Maxi Pad, in order to get X and Y CBC has to lose some of X. They lose more money that way. Which is why this decision is made, because they're a business. Thats the way a business is runned, to make as much money as possible.

Finally an argument I can agree with
But that's my point other then it's not that they lose more money but rather don't make as much because they need to spend more.
Two things, as long as CBC want's to hog the rights of all Canadian teams and collect my tax money then I have a right to complain if they want to cut cost to make a higher profit.
If CBC want's to run like a corporation then they should not be federally funded and advertised as our network. If they want to deprive other fans of watching their team to maximize their profits then they should be frowned upon not praised and defended like you leaf fans do like it's a personal attack against the leafs

[charlio lemieux]

Finally an argument I can agree with
But that's my point other then it's not that they lose more money but rather don't make as much because they need to spend more.
Two things, as long as CBC want's to hog the rights of all Canadian teams and collect my tax money then I have a right to complain if they want to cut cost to make a higher profit.
If you didn't vote you can't complain about the Govt. or taxes. Did you vote?
If CBC want's to run like a corporation then they should not be federally funded and advertised as our network. If they want to deprive other fans of watching their team to maximize their profits then they should be frowned upon not praised and defended like you leaf fans do like it's a personal attack against the leafs

I am not defending their action as much as I am trying to explain to you it is not some conspiracy between the NHL, the Leafs and the CBC. It is purely business. There are some very valid reasons for not doing an additional broadcast. One of those reasons happens to be the number of people that live in what is considered "Leafs Territory". But that is not bias, it is fact, and it is a fact that I am sure, the sponsors know better than us.
Take off the "Leaf Hater" goggles and look at it objectively. If it was costing them money to do an additional broadcast, then it is a smart business move.

[Newfie John]

Finally an argument I can agree with
But that's my point other then it's not that they lose more money but rather don't make as much because they need to spend more.
Two things, as long as CBC want's to hog the rights of all Canadian teams and collect my tax money then I have a right to complain if they want to cut cost to make a higher profit.
If CBC want's to run like a corporation then they should not be federally funded and advertised as our network. If they want to deprive other fans of watching their team to maximize their profits then they should be frowned upon not praised and defended like you leaf fans do like it's a personal attack against the leafs

I never said it was right or wrong, I just said it was the way it is. Frankly, I don't care. My team is getting shown. I was just trying to put the point across as to why this was happening.

That said, it is possible that there are just as many leaf fans in the Sens region as there are Sens fans. Afterall, they're in the same province. Also, the high leaf turn out ratio at Sens games is another reason to believe this. If leaf fans could be season ticketholders in Ottawa for those 4 games the leafs are there, I'd bet you'd have one half of the building Leafers, and the other half Sens fans. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. Since Ottawa fans buy the season tickets, all the leaf fans in Ottawa can't get their tickets in time because the season ticket holders have them all bought up. The leafs have been around since the beginning of the NHL and a lot of Sen fans came from the Montreal fans. The leaf fans are still there. Until a poll is done in Ottawa and the surrounding region, we could argue it until we're blue in the face. This backlash may cause a poll, but it won't turn anything around.

[a4l]

Newf there is no reason why YOUR team should be shown above all others. I woulld rather, and do , watch Les Canadien on the French station. Luckily I get that one here.

[Newfie John]

Newf there is no reason why YOUR team should be shown above all others. I woulld rather, and do , watch Les Canadien on the French station. Luckily I get that one here.

Indeed there is a reason. That reason is very simple. There are more fans of the Maple Leafs then there are fans of any other single team. I know your preferences, but you are in the minority. We live in a democracy.

[PDO]

Wow.. 6,000 leaf fans can show up to a 1 time game out west.. obviously that means.. wait; there's more Oiler fans in Edmonton than Leaf fans? Crap. And it's actually a pretty wide known fact that most people who aren't Leaf fans hate the Leafs? Crap. I wonder why this happens?

Few things on this..

1) It's pathetic that the CBC has exclusive rights to any Canadian team playing on Saturday night, and barely pay anything to get that.
2) It's even more pathetic that they refuse to show people in Edmonton an Oiler game or people in Ottawa a Sens game.
3) People at the CBC are trucking idiots, and the only time I watch the first game of HNIC is if it involves the Sens or Habs.
4) Has it ever occured to those idiots are CBC if you showed the Leafs a bit less often and got every team involved on HNIC, you'd most likely get more people in a routine of watching it? Look at MNF, it's not Giants/Cowboys every game.

[Newfie John]

Wow.. 6,000 leaf fans can show up to a 1 time game out west.. obviously that means.. wait; there's more Oiler fans in Edmonton than Leaf fans? Crap. And it's actually a pretty wide known fact that most people who aren't Leaf fans hate the Leafs? Crap. I wonder why this happens?

Imagine if leaf fans could get dibs on those tickets at the same time Oiler fans do in Edmonton? As in season ticket holders. You'd probably see half the building full of blue and white sweaters.

[Man.Utd]

I've come to accept this fact. It's wrong, it's not about the $$$ since they're not a private organization, and it's pure Leaf bias. You can't hide it and there's no real point in debating it. This is one of those issues where there's only one school of thought that you can respect beacuse there's only one that is correct.

Showing the Leafs every week is one thing (and I think even that is wrong). But at least you can make a case for it. But taking a game away? Between two of the NHL's best and most entertainning? There's no way to defend that. Not for a company that is run by the tax dollars of the country.

I'll just be heading to a friends that has Centre Ice (pending they don't have plans). Hopefully, whoever makes these calls falls ill to the flu in the next few days. Maybe falls and sprains their ankle on some ice in this Candian winter of ours. Nothing major, but I'll be hoping for some karma.

Inexcuseable.

[Amoroq]

I think the more accurate conclusion is that the CBC doesn't care about any other team in Canada aside from the Toronto Maple Leafs.I can understand how people can be upset and a good point is why can't the CBC outsource some telecasts they feel aren't worth to them to the regional Sportsnet or TSN. I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of thoughts. 1: The CBC doesn't want to give up its exclusivity in Canada on Saturday games. 2: They don't want to set a precedent. 3:Turn it around, would TSN, or Sportsnet offer the game to the CBC? 4: Perhaps there is a legal reason it can't be done?

I don't know, what I do know is the CBC allows other networks to pickup the lesser known Olympic events and Curling preliminaries so I can see even that throwing gas on the fire.

[The Insider]

I guess I'm one of the spoiled few because whenever I want to watch my team play, there are 4 different channels(TSN, CBC, SNet Ontario and LeafsTV) that rotate carrying the games either regionally or nationally.

My question is how CBC got the exclusive broadcast rights to ALL Canadian teams on Saturday's? It would seem to me that maybe the ownership in Montreal/Ottawa or the western teams want to pursue some kind of alternate deal that would allow games to be shown on Sportsnet/TSN or even if they wanted to begin broadcasting NHL games, The Score. Is CBC's deal with the NHL... or the actual teams? Because if it's with the NHL maybe the teams need to put pressure on the NHL to get a fair deal of coverage for their team and if they can't get it with CBC, maybe they could look elsewhere. It just sounds like with CBC you're spinning your wheels complaining because clearly viewership is high enough that they aren't going to change their ways and they're going to continue to be TML first and everyone else second, so maybe it's time to get your voice heard through the team itself and get them to voice the fans' distain with what's happening. :shrug:

[Max Power]

Thanks Amoroq and Insider for not lambasting me with how the leafs are superior in fan numbers and how I should suck it up and how CBC is a business and needs to maximize it's profits. As far as how the contracts work I'm not sure. If I had to guess I would think CBC gets the rights from the NHL like in the US and the profits are divvied between the teams. I can't see the Sens or any other team having any say in it until the contract is renegotiated.

As far as this tiring rhetoric
it is not some conspiracy between the NHL, the Leafs and the CBC
and
Take off the "Leaf Hater" goggles

I say this
First my original post or any other of my post do not call out the leafs or the NHL.
My two points are that CBC is monopolizing the games on Saturday and disregarding a large % of fans by playing corporation and minimizing operational cost while receiving maximum profits. This is not the way it is supposed to operate when it's classified as Canadian PUBLIC funded broadcast corporation. Its mandate is to reach all Canadians. Here are some clips directly from the CBC website


So who can afford to take programming risks? Public broadcasters can, because they have the flexibility to take programming risks that private broadcasters cannot. But therein also lies the greatest challenge. The challenge to ensure that the lives of all people are enriched. We must strive to ensure that technology does not just serve the needs of consumers, but that it also serves the more ennobling requirements of citizenship. And that is surely why we are gathered here at WEMF II.

Stable federal funding has aided our ability to plan

The CBC is a national institution. As such, its value to the community is more than the sum of its cameras and microphones and computer links. It is more than budgets and corporate structures, no matter how efficient or streamlined they have become. To the more than 7,500 talented and dedicated Canadians who work here, it is more than just a paycheque at the end of a long day. The CBC is an enduring service that reveals who we are, how we live our lives and what dreams will lead us to even higher places.

The CBC?s services must:
?reflect Canadian stories and values;
?reflect Canada?s regions to themselves and to each other;
?strive to be of equivalent quality in English and French;
?meet the needs of minority language communities in English and French;
?reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada; and
?reach Canadians wherever they live, by the most efficient means available.
The CBC?s mandate recognizes that Canada is more than the sum of its parts but that the needs of the whole cannot be met without recognizing the needs of those parts. To be national, one must first be regional; to truly serve the majority, one must sustain the minority; to meet the needs of the great cities and forge a Canadian identity, one must also be present in the vast spaces that define our country?s spirit.

What really pisses me off is my only mention of the leafs was to try to reach the leaf fans on this site for their support. Rather then passing your support you strive to bring out the typical leaf stereotype and tell us how our Sens area needs leaf converge or how CBC is doing the right thing because it's a business. What's particularly sad is Leaf fans will never lose their converge so none of this would ever effect you but for some unexplainable superiority complex you need to argue this like it's the only good thing leaf fans have. All other teams? fans just want to see their team play but you guys need to have your team nationally and nobody else.
Would you guys ever support any other company monopolizing anything? My bet is NO!

As far as the pointless argument a few of you leaf fans brought up on how western Canada has more leaf fans I'd like to say this
I was arguing for Ottawa area only! Again this complex of yours comes out. I would be willing to bet most western hockey fans would love to see a variety for the first game and CBC's numbers would stay the same if not rise but none of us can provide a truthful response to this no matter what you think. Toronto gets played because CBC is Toronto based and it's economically the best solution.

[Madferret]

Well said Maxy.
FTR I emailed the CBC yesterday asking what their 'reasoning' was behind cancelling coverage of a game with 2 of the most exciting & top teams in the league...I'm still waiting.

[butterfly_style]

Well said Maxy.
FTR I emailed the CBC yesterday asking what their 'reasoning' was behind cancelling coverage of a game with 2 of the most exciting & top teams in the league...I'm still waiting.
Can you post the email address ?

Or is that some kind of spam ?

[charlio lemieux]

As A sponsor I would not want to be paying to show an ad to less than than 100,000 people, in an area that my commercial would already be getting air time during a nationally braodcast game. That's paying twice for the same service. Regarless of who's playing, half of the people would most likely be watching anyway. So I don't think the actual increase in viewers is very much. I would put money on it being less than 30,000 additional viewers gained by broadcasting a Sens game to the Ottawa area only.

As a business, if the source of my income tells me they won't pay extra, to cover the cost for a certain additional service, then I am going to cancel the service.

So if, as a sponsor, I am not going to pay extra for my commercials on CBC's Ottawa broadcast, then that means the cost of the broadcast would be totally the expense of the CBC. That's camera operators, reporters, commentators, directors, sound techs, lighting techs and the other people who are needed to make a broadcast possible. That is too much waste. And now there is a govt. in office that is less likely to support CBC then the one that was here before. So they can't throw money around like they have in the past.

As a tax payer, I like the idea of the CBC saving some money.

As a hockey fan, it is a shame. Personally I could care less if there was a Sens game every other week on HNIC. It wouldn't bother me to watch the Sens. I watched them last night, and tend to watch most of their televised games that I get. The sponsors are most likely dead set against sharing the first game of HNIC between Ottawa and Toronto. They will be thinking about the 8-9 million potential viewers in "Leafs Territory". I understand you don't think it is about the number of fans a team has, but it is. It is all about "How many people will see my commercial?"

Ya, you may not like it, but it IS business, and it is the way it is.

As for the whole monopoly idea. IT'S ONE NIGHT A WEEK! The Sens, and Flames where on TV last night. Montreal is on tonight. It isn't like the CBC prevents games being shown the 6 nights of the week HNIC is not on the air.
typical leaf stereotype
Yup, that's us, Hyuck.
If common sense is a Leafs stereotype then I guess I'm in.
some unexplainable superiority complex
Are you really that insecure? Perhaps therapy would help?

you guys need to have your team nationally and nobody else.
When will it sink in? It is the sponsors and the CBC who want to show Leafs games, BECAUSE of the number of fans/potential viewers.
I was arguing for Ottawa area only! Again this complex of yours comes out.The Ottawa area where, if they were extremely lucky they would get an extra 30,000 viewers to watch a Sens game. As for the complex. It would appear you are the one with an issue here. You refuse to listen to reason, and continuously rail against the Leafs and their fans. There is nothing to support broadcasting a second game just to the Ottawa region.

[Madferret]

Can you post the email address ?

Or is that some kind of spam ?

Go to the start (http://hockeystation.com/showpost.php?p=34656&postcount=1) of the thread, Maxy put it there..

[Madferret]

The Ottawa area where, if they were extremely lucky they would get an extra 30,000 viewers to watch a Sens game. As for the complex. It would appear you are the one with an issue here. You refuse to listen to reason, and continuously rail against the Leafs and their fans. There is nothing to support broadcasting a second game just to the Ottawa region.

Where is this '30,000' figure coming from?
Ottawa's population is over 1 Million now Charlio...

[butterfly_style]

Where is this '30,000' figure coming from?
Ottawa's population is over 1 Million now Charlio...
Mad, be a good boy and get back to your shack.
Don't provoke the boys from the "Big City"

[leaferfan87]

I think the cancellation of the game might have to do with the CBC starting to prepare for the Olympics. Just a guess.

Nevertheless I have no problem with Sens games being shown in the Ottawa Valley (though I don't get to watch the Leafs). Let them watch their team on Saturday nights.

Back in the old days the CBC used to flip one weekened showing Toronto and showing Montreal the next. Why not go to the same system now? Have Toronto nationally one week (showing Ottawa in Ottawa) and vice versa or show Montreal if say Ottawa isn't playing as they sometimes don't on Saturdays.

[charlio lemieux]

Where is this '30,000' figure coming from?
Ottawa's population is over 1 Million now Charlio...

I checked at the start of this thread and am fully aware that the Ottawa/Hull & surrounding area has over 1 million people. Ottawa itself was less than 400,000, before almalgimation. But regardless, I am being overly generous with my 100,000 and 30,000 estimations. Anyway here are some figures:

Canada has roughly 31 million people. 1.55 million tuned in to watch the 7pm game on HNIC January 9 2006. That is 1/20 of the population. The Ottawa area has 1 million people and I gave them 100,000 veiwers which is 1/10 people viewing, double the national average. The number is likely closer to 50,000 which would be closer to the national average. I'll keep it at 100,000 though, just for arguments sake.

Of that 100,000 let's say half will watch no matter who's playing. It is just what they do on a Saturday night.
Then we need to account for the Habs fans and Leafs fans that live in the region. And have lived there long before there was a Sens team, btw. Judging from the Leaf support in Ottawa, having 1/7 of the hockey fans in the Ottawa area being Leafs fans is a gross underestimate, but again I will err on the side of Ottawa. With half of the Sens area in Quebec it must be home to some Habs fans. I doubt estimating 1 out of every 20 hockey fans in the Ottawa area, being a Montreal fan, is not far off either. Then there are those who like other teams. Let's say 1/100 people like a different team. Again a very conservative estimate. Ask 100 hockey fans around here and you would get atleast 4 or 5 different teams.
So let's recap:
50,000 will probably watch anyway.
14,000 are possible Leafs fans who want to see Toronto anyway.
5,000 are possible Montreal fans who would tune into the RDS broadcast.
1,000 peopel who like a different team.
That would leave 30,000 who are die hard Ottawa fans who refuse to watch HNIC because their team isn't playing.

Since I already showed how my initial viewer estimate in the Ottawa area was double the National average, only (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/show/CTVShows/20060109/ctv_release_20060109_icestorm/20060109)1.55 million viewers Jan 9, the 30,000 estimate is going to be way too high. the point is it probably means less than a 20,000 viewer difference to show a Sens Game, rather than the Leafs. My 30,000 was more than generous.

It takes 35 people to do a HNIC broadcast.
This Saturday night game's, for instance, with the Montreal Canadiens visiting the Maple Leafs, would normally require 35 broadcast staff "or a few more, because we do a pre-game show," explained Darling.
Add another 35 bodies for the other 7pm EDT face-off, with Buffalo at Ottawa, and the same number again for the late game, which will have Vancouver at Edmonton. That's about 100 technically adept people needed, suited up and ready to work Saturday, to fulfill the CBC's broadcast deal with the NHL.
That is from the beginning of the season when there was labour issues with the CBC.

So the bottom line is that, by adding a local Sens game the CBC would only be increasing viewership by about 2% while having to increase production costs by almost 100%.

[Madferret]

I checked at the start of this thread and am fully aware that the Ottawa/Hull & surrounding area has over 1 million people. Ottawa itself was less than 400,000, before almalgimation. But regardless, I am being overly generous with my 100,000 and 30,000 estimations. Anyway here are some figures:

Canada has roughly 31 million people. 1.55 million tuned in to watch the 7pm game on HNIC January 9 2006. That is 1/20 of the population. The Ottawa area has 1 million people and I gave them 100,000 veiwers which is 1/10 people viewing, double the national average. The number is likely closer to 50,000 which would be closer to the national average. I'll keep it at 100,000 though, just for arguments sake.

Of that 100,000 let's say half will watch no matter who's playing. It is just what they do on a Saturday night.
Then we need to account for the Habs fans and Leafs fans that live in the region. And have lived there long before there was a Sens team, btw. Judging from the Leaf support in Ottawa, having 1/7 of the hockey fans in the Ottawa area being Leafs fans is a gross underestimate, but again I will err on the side of Ottawa. With half of the Sens area in Quebec it must be home to some Habs fans. I doubt estimating 1 out of every 20 hockey fans in the Ottawa area, being a Montreal fan, is not far off either. Then there are those who like other teams. Let's say 1/100 people like a different team. Again a very conservative estimate. Ask 100 hockey fans around here and you would get atleast 4 or 5 different teams.
So let's recap:
50,000 will probably watch anyway.
14,000 are possible Leafs fans who want to see Toronto anyway.
5,000 are possible Montreal fans who would tune into the RDS broadcast.
1,000 peopel who like a different team.
That would leave 30,000 who are die hard Ottawa fans who refuse to watch HNIC because their team isn't playing.

Since I already showed how my initial viewer estimate in the Ottawa area was double the National average, only (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/show/CTVShows/20060109/ctv_release_20060109_icestorm/20060109)1.55 million viewers Jan 9, the 30,000 estimate is going to be way too high. the point is it probably means less than a 20,000 viewer difference to show a Sens Game, rather than the Leafs. My 30,000 was more than generous.

It takes 35 people to do a HNIC broadcast.
That is from the beginning of the season when there was labour issues with the CBC.

So the bottom line is that, by adding a local Sens game the CBC would only be increasing viewership by about 2% while having to increase production costs by almost 100%.

lol
Tell me you didn't think a page full of 'let's says' and 'I'll says' would take it seriously as your rebuttale?

Factually Charlio; Factually show me where you got the '30,000' from

[Newfie John]

The 30 000 is a substantial estimate. How would you estimate more? How would that be substantiated?

[Madferret]

The 30 000 is a substantial estimate. How would you estimate more? How would that be substantiated?

So you'll take some 16 year old kids 'estimate' of the size and population of a place he's most likely never been to anyways?

:shrug:

[charlio lemieux]

So you'll take some 16 year old kids 'estimate' of the size and population of a place he's most likely never been to anyways?

:shrug:
MF you know nothing.
These are facts:
1.)Canada has roughly 31 million people.
2.)1.55 million tuned in to watch the 7pm game on HNIC January 9 2006. That is 1/20 of the population.
3.) The Ottawa area has 1 million people and to give them 100,000 veiwers which is 1/10 people viewing, is double the national average.

That is 100,000 hockey fans that would actually watch the game. That includes Leafs, Habs, Sens and other fans.
Having 100,000 hockey fans in the Ottawa area is double the national average per population. So whether it is exact or not isn't the point. The point is, it is an extremely conservative estimate erring on Ottawa's side. The Estimate of 100,000 HNIC viewers in Ottawa is frankly, flattering.
I made sure every estimate I made was in Ottawa's favour.
Do you dispute, my estimate that 1/7 of the Hockey fans in the Ottawa area cheer for the Leafs? The number is probably closer to 1/4.
Do you dispute my estimate of 1/20 of the hockey fans like the Canadiens? Around here the number is would be close 1/30 and half of Leafs region isn't in Quebec. It's probably 50/50 on the Quebec side of Sens Region.

Oh ya, I've been to Ottawa. It's been a few(10) years. Do they still close the malls at 6:00? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
As for the size and Population of Ottawa, it is not hard to look up.

As for estimating, I got 95% in a college course where estimating was worth 25% of the final grade.
:talkhand:

Here's another fact:
It doesn't even matter if there are 250,000 "Sens only" fans that would be "new" viewers if there was a local broadcast. It would still cost the CBC almost the same to produce that game for 250,000, as it would to produce the National broadcast which averages well over 1,250,000 viewers every week.
Some more facts:
Local TSN broadcasts of Leafs games don't register on the top 30 Toronto area TV ratings. 30th place last week goes to Corner Gas with 220,000 viewers. HNIC registered 306,000 viewers last week in the Toronto area. It registered 389,000 for the first HNIC of the season. An average of the two works out to 347,500, but lets say 350,000 for ease of doing the math. If you count Oshawa(.340) the GTA(5.304) is 5 times bigger than the Ottawa/Hull region(1.148). So if I where to "estimate" Ottawa's local viewership, using the Toronto data I would "estimate" Ottawa has somewhere around 70,000 hockey fans who actually watch HNIC games.
TV Numbers (http://www.bbm.ca/en/top_programs.html)
So my off-the-top-of-my head conservative estimate of 100,000 wasn't bad.

Even though it has been shown that not doing two Ontario broadcasts, is a smart business move, that would save money. The possibility still remains, as was mentioned before, that the reason the game was cancelled could be simply due to getting ready for the Olympics.

[Max Power]

Holy $%#&
Talk about completely missing the point
Not only that but now 1/7 people that live in Ottawa are leaf fans
Funny because out of the 100 or so hockey fans I know in Ottawa only two of them are leaf fans. Not only that but both of them like the Sens too.
It?s funny how in this one dimensional world leaf fans won?t watch the Sens on Saturday night but Sens fans will tune in to watch the leafs. Either way I won?t jump in on this make belief world called leaf mentality where numbers can simply be thrown out as fact regardless of any proof. If it truly was all about the numbers then Vancouver would be the only team broadcasted out west but I won?t get into that because the statisticians will surely tell me why that isn?t

I?ve made my point and none of you have rebutted it with any intelligence other then this again tiring rhetoric of it?s a business even though I already pointed out CBC?s mandate. Not only that but the experts on this forum now seem to know exactly how advertising works and how CBC receives its tax money. Until you can make a single attempt to comprehend my point Charlio rather then spin it I?ll take a walk on this pointless conversation.

[Madferret]

30 000

[Newfie John]

Max, whenever you've heard something that you didn't want to hear, you've said its missing the point.

[Madferret]

What Pro sports league is the most popular in the USA?

[TimmyTabasco]

CBC is a pain in the ass

Who seriously wants to watch the Leafs each and every Saturday afternoon?
I always hear complaints about this.

The only time I watch the first game, is if the Habs are playing. But, usually I just watch the French CBC. Hey, I may not understand much of what is said, but its not a cure for insomnia..that title belongs to Cole and Neale :thumb:

[Rusty]

I really do not have the time nor the patience to worry about whether or not the CBC is monopolizing hockey broadcasts in Canada.

[charlio lemieux]

Holy $%#&
Talk about completely missing the point
Not only that but now 1/7 people that live in Ottawa are leaf fans
Funny because out of the 100 or so hockey fans I know in Ottawa only two of them are leaf fans. Not only that but both of them like the Sens too.
It?s funny how in this one dimensional world leaf fans won?t watch the Sens on Saturday night but Sens fans will tune in to watch the leafs. Either way I won?t jump in on this make belief world called leaf mentality where numbers can simply be thrown out as fact regardless of any proof. If it truly was all about the numbers then Vancouver would be the only team broadcasted out west but I won?t get into that because the statisticians will surely tell me why that isn?t

I?ve made my point and none of you have rebutted it with any intelligence other then this again tiring rhetoric of it?s a business even though I already pointed out CBC?s mandate. Not only that but the experts on this forum now seem to know exactly how advertising works and how CBC receives its tax money. Until you can make a single attempt to comprehend my point Charlio rather then spin it I?ll take a walk on this pointless conversation.

Try to follow along.

1. Not everyone who is a hockey fan actually watches hockey on TV. There are tons of bandwagon fans and "playoff only" fans in every city. They still say they are fans though. How many of your 100 hockey fans stay home and watch a Sens game on HNIC? I know tons of casual fans that would rather watch something else and or go out for the evening.

2. For decades before there was a Sens team there were hockey fans in the Ottawa region that tuned into NHIC. They did not disappear or go away when the Sens arrived, and they still tune into HNIC.

3. The percentage of Leafs fans has you mystified. But you forget there is still 2 or 3 generations in the Ottawa region that where there before there was a Sens team and are either Leafs or Habs fans. Just look at a Sens/Leafs game in Ottawa. It's almost 1/5 Leafs fans and thats with the thousands of season tickets not available for sale. I still say 1/7 is over generous.

4. Regardless of city there is going to be fans that like other teams. These people if they want to watch a hockey game will either have Center ice or be watching HNIC any way. Ottawa has this worse than any other city in the country.
Can't figure out why? Here's a hint. I know for a fact there is a Calgary Flames fan moving into 24 Sussex Dr., and he's bringing a full office staff of Calgarians with him. He's only one of many.

5. I have shown an estimate, extrapolated from the data of HNIC broadcast ratings of a Toronto game in the Toronto region, that there is approx. 70,000 hockey fans in the Ottawa area that would watch a Sens game on HNIC.

6. Starting with the approx. 70,000 Ottawa HNIC viewers we need to subtract the groups of fans mentioned in points 2,3 and 4 to find the number of extra fans that would only tune in to watch a Sens broadcast on HNIC, and would not tune into see the regular nationally broadcast game.

Do you see?

As for your point, what was it?
That it was unfair for CBC to cancell a game?
Or that the CBC is a Leafs loving business who likes nothing better than to force feed the country Leafs games, and screw the other Canadian teams?

Either way it has been shown plainly that it is not a wise business move to have 2 Ontario HNIC broadcasts simultaniously.

But again, as someone else said, it could just be cancelled due to the Olympics.

[Madferret]

Hey Charlio before it turned into HNIT it was HNIM...Dick Ivring?? Hello?

[charlio lemieux]

What's your point. You saying there is an inordinate amount of Montreal fans in Ottawa too?

[Madferret]

What's your point. You saying there is an inordinate amount of Montreal fans in Ottawa too?

Yes Charlio, that is exactly what I'm saying.
Ottawa's population is about 1.2 miillion...

1.2 Million
- 300,030 Sens fans
- 250,000 Inordinate Habs fans
- 1,144,970 Leaf fans

[charlio lemieux]

You're lost.

[Newfie John]

You're lost.

lol. Read the posts Ferret.

[Max Power]

This is not directed at a few certain people, I haven?t read your post and don?t plan on reading any other on this topic for reasons already explained.

As for you Rusty thanks for your infinite wisdom? Someone is insulting leaf fans so your 2 cents needs to be put in I guess regardless of the fact I WAS ONLY TALKING OF THE OTTAWA AREA. I?m sure you took the time to actually read what was written right?

Anyways for those who want to discuss this without an inferiority complex I thought of another reason why this CBC hockey night in Canada BS makes even less sense. As I was ordering CI for the remainder of the season I realized CBC could also steal the feed from American stations for a minimal fee and broadcast to the Ottawa area.

[Amoroq]

As I was ordering CI for the remainder of the season I realized CBC could also steal the feed from American stations for a minimal fee and broadcast to the Ottawa area.This is very good point as this game was on the MSG network.

http://www.msgnetwork.com/Sabres_tv_schedule.jsp

[Rusty]

.....As for you Rusty thanks for your infinite wisdom? Someone is insulting leaf fans so your 2 cents needs to be put in I guess regardless of the fact I WAS ONLY TALKING OF THE OTTAWA AREA. I?m sure you took the time to actually read what was written right?

You obviously mistook my post, I wasn't referring to the bias that is shown by the CBC, I was mearly pointing out that I could care less about the supposed monopolozation of the CBC when it comes to hockey boradcast in Canada.

Nowhere did I make any mention of the Leafs.

:nod:

[KB in Kelowna]

I have been on various hockey talk forums for about 3 years now. This is one of those recurring topics that always shows up.. As far as I can tell my son will be arguing over it in 15 years or so.

[butterfly_style]

I have been on various hockey talk forums for about 3 years now. This is one of those recurring topics that always shows up.. As far as I can tell my son will be arguing over it in 15 years or so.
I've put the bug in my son's mind as well . . .he's 5.
Tell you what KB, let's make an appointment.
Are you free Feb 8, 2021 . . .say around 3:00 ?

[KB in Kelowna]

I've put the bug in my son's mind as well . . .he's 5.
Tell you what KB, let's make an appointment.
Are you free Feb 8, 2021 . . .say around 3:00 ?

I'll schedule it my day timer, by the way it is a Monday.:D

[leaferfan87]

I have been on various hockey talk forums for about 3 years now. This is one of those recurring topics that always shows up.. As far as I can tell my son will be arguing over it in 15 years or so.

Yeah it always pops up every six months or so and my child will probably be discussing the same thing as will our grandchildren and our children's grandchildren and so forth.

[Madferret]

Hey leaferfan87 I see you're out of the Hill and into Vanier?
I used to play at the Vanier Sports Bar, is it still around? Vaniers a scray place eh? lol