Shootout discrepancy

[Max Power]

Someone brought up an interesting argument to me that I thought I'd share.
If a player is penalized at the last seconds of overtime should he qualify as one of the three shooters?
This may have already been an issue on more then one game but the only one I know of is the Ottawa vs. Vancouver game. Bert was assessed a tripping (or something) minor in the last minute of overtime. He was then allowed to be part of the three men shooting. Subsequently he scored tying the shootout (1 - 1) and taking the shootout to extra men.
Since Bert was theoretically still in the box should he have been allowed to shoot? To me the answer is obvious and should be no. He should have only been allowed to shoot after.

What do you think?

I'm not aware if this has been discussed in another thread so please delete if it has.

Nuck fans this is not about this particular game but simply about the rules and how they should be enforced or changed

[bluemeanie]

I agree with you Maxy. The player shouldn't be allowed to shoot until after the initial three selections have all shot. But, obviously... that's not the way it works.

Here's some more shoot out musings...

What if a team is playing a player or two short and a Shoot out occurs where nothing is decided through the first 18 sets of shooters? (a game came close involving Washington I believe) can the team that's short a player play their first pick again while the other team goes with their last selection? Or does the other team get to go to their first selection also?

Also, can a penalty be called during a shoot out? For example, let's say a goalie slashes at an opposing player during a save attempt or after a player has scored. Does the goalie get pulled for the remainder of the SO, or does the next player in the SO lineup have to give up his shot?

And finally, let's say that a shooter is distracted by a girl in the audience behind the net that lifts up her shirt... should or should we not be able to post pictures of the occurrence here on the forum? Or at least, post a picture depicting what we might "think" that the girl's breasts would look like?

[Max Power]

I agree with you Maxy. The player shouldn't be allowed to shoot until after the initial three selections have all shot. But, obviously... that's not the way it works.

Here's some more shoot out musings...

What if a team is playing a player or two short and a Shoot out occurs where nothing is decided through the first 18 sets of shooters? (a game came close involving Washington I believe) can the team that's short a player play their first pick again while the other team goes with their last selection? Or does the other team get to go to their first selection also?

Also, can a penalty be called during a shoot out? For example, let's say a goalie slashes at an opposing player during a save attempt or after a player has scored. Does the goalie get pulled for the remainder of the SO, or does the next player in the SO lineup have to give up his shot?

And finally, let's say that a shooter is distracted by a girl in the audience behind the net that lifts up her shirt... should or should we not be able to post pictures of the occurrence here on the forum? Or at least, post a picture depicting what we might "think" that the girl's breasts would look like?

These are all very good points, particularly the last one. Visual aids are a key part of my everyday work routine and I don?t know how it could be frowned upon on this forum. We need to clearly understand what the players go through.

[Yoata]

One easy way to fix that problem... scrap the stupid shootouts.

[charlio lemieux]

I agree Max, if they are in the box they should not shoot until after the first three.

[Mel]

Great points.

@ Max, I agree... if a guy's in the box he should at least be disallowed from being one of the 3 main shooters.

but straight from the rule book:
All players are eligible to participate in the shootout unless they are serving a ten minute misconduct or have been assessed a game misconduct, gross misconduct or match penalty.

@Yoata, I agree too, but the shootout is definitely here to stay so we gotta live with it.

What if a team is playing a player or two short and a Shoot out occurs where nothing is decided through the first 18 sets of shooters? (a game came close involving Washington I believe) can the team that's short a player play their first pick again while the other team goes with their last selection? Or does the other team get to go to their first selection also?
I say, when one team has exhausted all their options and goes back to their top pick... the other team gets to do the same, even if they've not used everybody yet.

From this rule wording however... it appears not to be the case:
After each team has taken three shots, if the score remains tied, the shootout will proceed to a "sudden death" format. No player may shoot twice until everyone who is eligible has shot.

Also, can a penalty be called during a shoot out? For example, let's say a goalie slashes at an opposing player during a save attempt or after a player has scored. Does the goalie get pulled for the remainder of the SO, or does the next player in the SO lineup have to give up his shot?
Interesting, Shootout rules are the same as normal penalty shot rules... and after a quick skim through, I didn't see anything pertaining to penalties occurring during the penalty shot itself.

And finally, let's say that a shooter is distracted by a girl in the audience behind the net that lifts up her shirt... should or should we not be able to post pictures of the occurrence here on the forum? Or at least, post a picture depicting what we might "think" that the girl's breasts would look like?

This is all I could find....
If, while the penalty shot is being taken, any member of the crowd shall have by some action interfered with or distracted the player taking the shot (for example by exposing their breasts) and, because of such action, the shot should have failed, a second attempt shall be permitted and the Referee shall impose his phone number on the person so interfering or distracting. However under no circumstances may bluemeanie post photographs of the subjects bare breasts, or any likeness thereof, on www.hockeystation.com
sorry buddy

NHL Rules http://www2.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/alphaindex.html

[Yoata]

I actually hope it's not here to stay, I really hope enough hockey people will speak out against all the things wrong with it and they'll get rid of the garbage way to decide an NHL hockey game and as a result, playoff seedings.

[Amoroq]

At the meetings about 2 weeks ago the shoot out was discussed. 2 changes happened. 1: As soon as a team exhausts its players, both teams can start over from the top. 2: Video replay in the shootout, the JR rule.

[a4l]

One easy way to fix that problem... scrap the stupid shootouts.

I have to agree with you on this. I hate the shootout bring back tied games.

[charlio lemieux]

The fans at the games, about 16000-18000 on average, seem to go crazy for the shootout. I don't see the league getting rid of something that has their fans standing and cheering for the entire duration.
Personally,in the regular season only, I would like to see them extend the overtime to 10min of 4-on-4. Then if there is still no winner go to 10min of 3-on-3. If there is still no winner, pull both goalies and have 5min 4-on-4. If they can't score with no goalies,(they suck!) then neither team gets any points. (can't-score-on-an-empty-net losers!):D

What bugs me the most about the shootout is the player who scores the winner doesn't get credit for a goal. I doubt if the Goalies get credit for saves either. These are pool points people! Rise up! Fight the Power! Attica, Attica, Attica, Attica. ;) :D :)

[THE HACK]

At the meetings about 2 weeks ago the shoot out was discussed. 2 changes happened. 1: As soon as a team exhausts its players, both teams can start over from the top. 2: Video replay in the shootout, the JR rule.

I watched the L.A. game and on the Roenick goal the refs DID go to replay and still they got the call wrong!!!Even the Kings announcers Miller and Fox couldn't beleive they counted the goal,the call was a disgrace to the game.So I don't understand how they can incorporate this rule when replay has already been used before(in the JR case) but I guess this shouldn't suprise me as the NHL doesn't really seem to know what its doing!Oh ya,scrap the shootout,it sucks!:D

Cheers

[PDO]

One easy way to fix that problem... scrap the stupid shootouts.

Only a dream now :cry:

[Canadian26]

I dont mind the shoot out, i really hate tie games. Id rather have a winner... I wouldnt mind extending the OT period, if it wasnt for time constraints. A lot of time teams have to fly out that night or the early next morning, and extending OT might actually hinder performance in the next game. I dont know if theres a real solution, but I dont mind the shoot out its pretty exciting IMO.

[slapshot™]

The shootout is the latest (and hottest feature) in the NHL's dog and pony show. It's all part of the new NHL and an attempt to put bums in the seats (and keep them there). Overall, the fans seem to like it and most will admit that it is exciting - but is it the way to decide a game? Most purists of the game will say no.

I would prefer that they scrap the shoot out. After regulation they should play 4 on 4 hockey for 5 minutes and if it is still a draw each team leaves the ice with one point each. That's it, that's all, and on to the next game.

The shootout (IMO) cheapens the game. Why bother with goaltenders...why not keep them off the ice and then have the guys try for a post or crossbar (as one would do in place of the shooter tutor during scrimmage) as a goal during the OT?

The whole concept of a losing team gaining a point doesn't work in my books. If, during the OT, a team wins they get 2 points and the loser gets zero.

[PDO]

Here's the thing..

Ever seen fans boo a fight? Last time I checked, during a fight everyone is every excited. Yet that hurts the "integrity of the game" (how, I haven't figured out yet). Yet.. it's okay to destroy it with the ****ing shootout?

[butterfly_style]

The whole concept of a losing team gaining a point doesn't work in my books. If, during the OT, a team wins they get 2 points and the loser gets zero.
Absolutely . . .I hate three point games.

Ever seen fans boo a fight? Last time I checked, during a fight everyone is every excited. Yet that hurts the "integrity of the game" (how, I haven't figured out yet). Yet.. it's okay to destroy it with the ****ing shootout?
So there's THE concept!
If it's still tied after three, or say five shooters in the damn shootout . . . The teams send out their fighters for which we have the refs and linesmen turn into judges.
They score the fight win/lose/draw.
If after three fighters things are still square . . .then it's fastest skaters.
I say a full-blown skills competition in tie games.

Honestly, though I don't mind tie games and each team gets a point.
But, if you are going to have an outright winner (through shootout or other means), then the winning team gets 2 points and the loser gets 0.

[bluemeanie]

So there's THE concept!
If it's still tied after three, or say five shooters in the damn shootout . . . The teams send out their fighters for which we have the refs and linesmen turn into judges.
They score the fight win/lose/draw.
If after three fighters things are still square . . .then it's fastest skaters.
I say a full-blown skills competition in tie games.

Absolutly!!! And if that still doesn't work, then we get the players to pull out their sticks to see who has the longest.


...well I've said too much now...

[a4l]

Absolutly!!! And if that still doesn't work, then we get the players to pull out their sticks to see who has the longest.


...well I've said too much now...

I am beginning to like the alternatives. They make as much sense as a shootout.