Are teams tanking so they get a high draft pick?

[Iced Tea]

I got the following of hockeytraderumors.com (http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/article5966.html) but the author has a valid point.
Are teams tanking the season?. Yes they are. I really do not have any complaints about how the lottery went. Though I disagreed with it, I'm happy with the Rangers picking a solid youngster in Marc Staal. However, the Penguins are once again in contention for the Phil Kessel sweepstakes.

Enough is enough. This team has not drafted any lower than 5th overall in the past four years. They do not deserve to get another top 5 pick. Sure, they tried to win it this season, but they cannot be complaining about money issues now to then set up a veteran firesale, trying to unload Sergei Gonchar and Ziggy Palffy. That was completely irresponsible on Mario Lemieux's and Craig Patrick's part. Completely irresponsible knowing that they are not a rich team. The Penguins do not deserve a chance to pick 5th overall after drafting Ryan Whitney, Marc-Andre Fleury, Evgeny Malkin, and Sidney Crosby. The should not be able to draft top five in 2006.

The Caps got to draft Alex Ovechkin, but once again they are tanking the season. They showed no signs of improvement, but showed their unwillingness to compete at the NHL level. If George McPhee wants to run a team like he is doing so now, then do it in the AHL because his management is embarrassing to NHL hockey. No willingness to sign key players that could have formed a great line with Ovechkin. Why did he not want Bondra back? Why does he not try to improve his team by trading Brendan Witt (wants to be traded)? Because he, as well as Ted Leonis, wants to spend little and get another high draft pick.

These two teams are tanking seasons and they appear to tank a couple more.

How is this for a change? A team that has drafted in the top five overall picks for three straight years will not be able to pick in the top five of the next entry draft.

How will that work? Exclude the Penguins in the lottery. If the Penguins finish 28th in the league, then whatever team is 24th in the league gets included in the lottery, which means Penguins are excluded. So.... here is an example:

1)Blues
2)Penguins
3)Capitals
4)Blue Jacks
5)Bruins
6)Panthers

The Penguins are out as #2 and put in as #6. The Capitals move up one, as do the B'Jacks and Bruins, and the Panthers move to 5th.

I think that will prevent teams from tanking seasons consecutively. It would be a real shame to see the Penguins draft in the top once again. They just don't deserve it. They got Crosby, they got Malkin, and Fleury... now they have to stop losing. I'd want to see Phil Kessel in a St. Louis Blues uniform. Not in a Caps uni, and not in a Pens uni.I agree with the above statement. Certains teams are setting up for an incredible future with top draft picks while not spending enough to compete now and certain owners are sitting on their pile of money which the fans eagerly give yet the owners are screwing the fans by taking the money and not signing a decent team.

I agree that teams shouldn't be able to pick in the top five after so many years. I say 3 years maximum in the top five spots, and then the team is invalid for another 3 years.

[Yoata]

I don't think so, all of those teams either kept or added expensive big name players for this season when they could've dumped/stood pat. Just because there are good teams and bad doesn't mean they're deliberately tanking. I think the Pens definitely did last season to get Crosby, but I don't see it this year.

[Iced Tea]

I don't think so, all of those teams either kept or added expensive big name players for this season when they could've dumped/stood pat. Just because there are good teams and bad doesn't mean they're deliberately tanking. I think the Pens definitely did last season to get Crosby, but I don't see it this year.The Pens hired a rookie coach, signed washed up veterans, and have no goaltending. You don't think that's tanking?

Washington has surrounded Ovechkin with crap, how is that not tanking?

[Mel]

The Pens hired a rookie coach, signed washed up veterans, and have no goaltending. You don't think that's tanking?

For one thing... it's way too early in the season to accuse teams of tanking.

As for washed up veterans, you could say that for Leclair and possibly Recchi.

But Palffy, Gonchar and Thibault were all excellent signings I thought.

As long as Palffy can stay healthy... he's a point-a-game scorer.

There was no way to tell pre-season that Thibault and Gonchar would be so horrible. At least some of it falls on the team as a whole (especially Thibault).

Thibault has been a solid G for a long time in this league, even playing on bad teams.

I really don't think the Pens are tanking. Especially here in December. They want to win... they just have major problems doing so for whatever reason.

Also you need to look at the obvious... Mario and his group went out and spent some 7-8 million over budget... money they know they are going to lose, because they want to win sooner rather than later. If their goal was to tank this season.... why would they have spent 14 mill on FA's this summer? Instead they would have spent just enough to stay above the floor, instead of throwing millions out the window.

[Yoata]

The Pens hired a rookie coach, signed washed up veterans, and have no goaltending. You don't think that's tanking?

Washington has surrounded Ovechkin with crap, how is that not tanking?

Palffy, Gonchar and Recchi are washed up veterans?

I doubt anybody would've predicted Thibault to be as bad as he's been.

You thought at the beginning of the season that this was a team built to tank???

Underacheivement is hardly tanking.

If Washington wanted to tank why would they hold on to Kolzig who's the only thing giing them a chance to win every night?

[charlio lemieux]

Simply too many holes needed to be filled on Pittsburg. I admit I was excited about all the signings and thought that a healthy, year-and-a-half-rested Lemieux would atleast give the pens a good shot at the playoffs. But Thibault sucked and had absolutely no help.
Lemieux's play and health I think are a bigger reason for the poor performance, than any desire to "tank the season". If Lemieux could produce even 65%(about 15 to 20 more points than he has now) of what he did in his prime the Pens would atleast be a .500 club. He honestly thought he would be able to compete and win this year or next. But with his current health problems putting the rest of his carreer in question. So the players that Lemieux the Owner brought in to compliment his own skill to give himself another kick at the can are now expensive baggage to a team that is not headed for the playoffs.

I don't see it as "tanking the season" as much as I see an owner/player who thought he could win the cup, and failed. If Lemieux hadn't been convinced he could play I don't think the Pens would have signed LeClair, Recchi, Palffy or Gonchar. So I don't find the dismantling of the team, a sign they are tanking. According to the Pens their budget included making the second round of the playoffs. If this is true then from the looks of things they had better rework their budget. Trimming salary will be the easiest way.


As for Washington they admitted from the start they would be rebuilding from within. They aren't tanking, they suck!

[MadDevil]

I don't think it's so much a matter of the Caps and Pens tanking as much as it's a matter of horrible mismanagement by both teams. The Caps have had nothing but crap on their team in recent years. The Jagr Experiment failed miserably, they have very few top end prospects, and if it wasn't for Olaf Kolzig, the franchise would be a complete joke.

The Pens have had no clue how to put together a defense (or a winning team) in recent years, and seem to think that throwing money (now that they miraculously have it) at it will somehow solve the problem (like the Rangers of old). Recchi I could see as a decent signing because it looks like he wanted to be in Pittsburgh to finish his career, Palffy is still a very effective player, Gonchar is a good offensive defensemen but horrible in his own end, and Thibault was the only good thing Chicago had for a while. The LeClair signing still baffles me. He's been declining for a few years now, and is a shell of his former self.

Getting back to the Caps, I really don't see what more they could do right now. Washington is a graveyard for offensive talent, nobody wants to play there, and the fans don't even know they have a team. With Ovechkin and Semin, they have two very solid offensive players to build around. Halpern, Witt, Cassels, Clark, Friesen, Eminger, and Kolzig are all decent enough supporting guys to build around as well.

The Caps may have finally done the right thing by not joining in the spending spree this last offseason. They have some decent young guys, and enough cap room to go after a couple of solid free agents in the next couple of years.

And by the way, two shining examples of a team sucking for awhile, and then paying off in the long run are the Senators and Devils. They sucked for several years, built up a core of top quality draft picks, and have risen to two of the most successful teams in the last 4-5 years. Of course, neither the Caps or Pens has any clue how to run their organization that well.

[PDO]

Ridiculous argument.

It takes a few years for the players that you draft to form a young core and become the players you need them to be. The Pens are still 2-3 years away from bieng contenders, and saying anything else would be ridiculous. The Caps have been bad for one freaking year.

The whole idea of the draft is to help teams that aren't well managed.

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

IMO, there is no team that deserves to have a top 5 pick for more than 3 years in row. It's completely ridiculous to have a team so bad that it can't improve out of the bottom five teams in the league after drafting that high. Get a new coach, bring in some FAs, but do something. I don't care if they are tanking or giving a full effort, you can't be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for more than 3 straight years. Move them out of the top 5 or even the top 10 when drafting, because the problem isn't the players or talent anymore, it's something above that.

[PDO]

IMO, there is no team that deserves to have a top 5 pick for more than 3 years in row. It's completely ridiculous to have a team so bad that it can't improve out of the bottom five teams in the league after drafting that high. Get a new coach, bring in some FAs, but do something. I don't care if they are tanking or giving a full effort, you can't be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for more than 3 straight years. Move them out of the top 5 or even the top 10 when drafting, because the problem isn't the players or talent anymore, it's something above that.

Why not?

Look at St. Louis right now, what on earth are they supposed to do? They have no one to build around. There's no reason why you'd want to add a couple players.. the idea's not to be mediocre, the idea is to win. If you want to win, it means you need some players to build around, and you do that through the draft.

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

I realize you do that through the draft and I'm not saying that the Blues don't deserve a #1-5 pick, because they suck and they do, but they haven't consistently sucked like the Pens or Caps. If they miss the playoffs this year, it will be the first time in what, 20-some years. I'm talking about teams that just don't seem to get it together. They draft high almost every year and can't do anything with it. Do I believe the Pens messed up with their offseason signings, thinking that all offense and absolutely no defense would get it done??? Yes. Do I think they should be rewarded for their sheer stupidity??? No.

[Iced Tea]

I realize you do that through the draft and I'm not saying that the Blues don't deserve a #1-5 pick, because they suck and they do, but they haven't consistently sucked like the Pens or Caps. If they miss the playoffs this year, it will be the first time in what, 20-some years. I'm talking about teams that just don't seem to get it together. They draft high almost every year and can't do anything with it. Do I believe the Pens messed up with their offseason signings, thinking that all offense and absolutely no defense would get it done??? Yes. Do I think they should be rewarded for their sheer stupidity??? No.I agree.

The Pens blow every season and they are currently capable of a full line and goalie with their top draft picks. I don't want to see them fill out the second line with top draft picks as well.

[charlio lemieux]

IMO, there is no team that deserves to have a top 5 pick for more than 3 years in row. It's completely ridiculous to have a team so bad that it can't improve out of the bottom five teams in the league after drafting that high. Get a new coach, bring in some FAs, but do something. I don't care if they are tanking or giving a full effort, you can't be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for more than 3 straight years. Move them out of the top 5 or even the top 10 when drafting, because the problem isn't the players or talent anymore, it's something above that.

Three of the Pens top 5 picks haven't been with the team from the time they where drafted. Fleury proved himself unready for the NHL. Defensmen, like Whitney generally take a few years to get strong enough to play at the NHL level. Whitney apparently went to university. Malkin is still in Russia. So how where these guys supposed to make Pittsburg better if they weren't here.

[Yoata]

This is also the reason the draft is a lottery, it's not a given that you will get a franchise player, even if there is a surefire one in the draft the worst team in the league's chances of getting the #1 pick are not even that much better than the 5th worst team's.

What's the solution, to make it a pure lottery?

Imagine the hoardes crying foul if by chance the best team in the league ended up with Crosby?

[LiAmTrAnSdEmOn]

The Pens can't make those players come to play??? Maybe not Malkin, because I would imagine he has a contract in Russia, but Whitney isn't better than any of the piss poor D-men they have right now. Fleury is getting destroyed every time he starts and that is the fault of the Pens management for not recognizing that he was clearly not ready. Like Iced Tea said, they already drafted their first line of the future. It would be a complete travesty if they managed to draft their second line with the same kind of talent.

[Yoata]

This is the natural progression of the parity of the league, the Isles were built on the draft because they were bottom dwellers, so were the Nords/Avs, so were the Pens of the early 90s, and so were the Devils and now the Sens.

That's the way it's been since the draft began, and it's proof that the draft works

[charlio lemieux]

The Pens can't make those players come to play??? Maybe not Malkin, because I would imagine he has a contract in Russia, but Whitney isn't better than any of the piss poor D-men they have right now. Fleury is getting destroyed every time he starts and that is the fault of the Pens management for not recognizing that he was clearly not ready. Like Iced Tea said, they already drafted their first line of the future. It would be a complete travesty if they managed to draft their second line with the same kind of talent.

Whitney is playing right now.

The Pens where counting on a healthy Lemieux being able lead them into the playoffs. Unfortunately even when he was healthy Lemieux just couldn't produce like before. If they where to rebuild from the beginning knowing that Lemieux would be ineffective, they would have gone with more role players who could grind out one goal victories. Instead they went under the assumption they would be able to out-score everybody the way they did in the 90's.

Knowing what Lemieux would be like, I think Recchi may have still been signed, but Gonchar, LeClair and Palffy would have been left alone.

[TimmyTabasco]

Who cares about the Blues, and the Pens? :D

Actually, it is a shame to see the Blues playing so poorly. They were a dominant western conference team for years.

But the Pens are just a mess/joke..year in and year out. Why did Patrick sign these guys, when he could have signed Morozov and Kraft?