Montoya vs Holt

[wildboy26]

I am not sure why Chris Holt is considered higher up on the depth chart than Al Montoya in the New York Rangers system. He is less accomplished, and Montoya has better stats so far in the AHL season before being injured, but the Rangers seem to have Holt higher on the depth chart. I am not sure what he has done to deserve this personaly.

[Mel]

Montoya is injured right now.
I am not sure why Chris Holt is considered higher up on the depth chart than Al Montoya in the New York Rangers system. He is less accomplished, and Montoya has better stats so far in the AHL season before being injured, but the Rangers seem to have Holt higher on the depth chart. I am not sure what he has done to deserve this personaly.
Montoya is higher on the chart as far as I know... but injuries....

[wildboy26]

Actually when they needed to call somebody up earlier in the year, they called Montoya for a bit, then sent him back down and called Holt up.

I liked Montoya when he won the World junior title for the U.S in 2003 vs Canada in the final. I was cheering for Canada but I was impressed with Montoya's performance the whole tournament. He had a dissapointing year at the World juniors, and apparently in school as well last year. I hope to see him make it to the NHL someday but if a younger player in his organization is already passing him that is a bad sign for him.

[Mel]

Al Montoya
6th overall, 2004 NHL entry draft (NYR)
Team: Hartford Wolf Pack

The 20-year-old rookie is 12th in the AHL with a 2.50 GAA but has the sixth-best save percentage at .929. He has five wins and only one loss on a Hartford team with an overall 7-4-1-1 record. Montoya set a franchise record with 51 saves in an Oct. 29 game against in-state rival Bridgeport.

Montoya is performing better than partner and fellow rookie Chris Holt, who has a .883 save percentage. Montoya’s chances of making it to New York for some games this season are pretty good, given the frequency of goaltenders’ injuries.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=8081

The Rangers have made it clear they do not want to rush their young prospects any more. And they want Montoya to sharpen his game in the AHL, that's why they "suggested" he quit college and go pro (they did the same to Jessiman). None of which means Montoya has fallen down the ladder.

As for Holt, he's not younger than Montoya they are both 20, and Holt has just been sent down to Charlotte (ECHL).

[wildboy26]

Holt was born later than Montoya, that makes him younger doesnt it. :)

Montoya had a very dissapointing World junior tournament, it is good to see him put up good numbers in the AHL this year, while healthy that is.

[Mel]

Holt was born later than Montoya, that makes him younger doesnt it. :)

Montoya had a very dissapointing World junior tournament, it is good to see him put up good numbers in the AHL this year, while healthy that is.

LOL well if you count months, yes. That's like a little kid telling you he's not 5... he's 5 and a half :laughing:

(Montoya and Holt are less than 4 months apart)

At any rate, Montoya is still very much a top Ranger prospect. Between you and me... if Lundqvist is the real deal and Weekes is going to stick around.... I wouldn't mind seeing Montoya get dealt for some help on defense.

Of course I doubt the Rangers will move him or anyone young ever again... They're so hell-bent on trying to show everyone they no longer sell out the future for the present. But think about it, if both Montoya and Lundqvist are destined to be bona-fide NHL #1's... then there's not room on Broadway for the both of them.

[wildboy26]

LOL well if you count months, yes. That's like a little kid telling you he's not 5... he's 5 and a half :laughing:

(Montoya and Holt are less than 4 months apart)

At any rate, Montoya is still very much a top Ranger prospect. Between you and me... if Lundqvist is the real deal and Weekes is going to stick around.... I wouldn't mind seeing Montoya get dealt for some help on defense.

Of course I doubt the Rangers will move him or anyone young ever again... They're so hell-bent on trying to show everyone they no longer sell out the future for the present. But think about it, if both Montoya and Lundqvist are destined to be bona-fide NHL #1's... then there's not room on Broadway for the both of them.

Yeah I see your point. I am getting the feeling Lundqvist might be the real deal too, although it is a bit too early to tell for certain. I also think they would keep Weekes as their #1 for a bit, since he has the experience and has been a solid if unspectacular NHL goalie for a number of years now. So it could get crowded, and they do need help on defence. If Lundqvist and Montoya are both future #1 goalies though it could lead to a dilemna. :shrug:

Like you said are suggesting as well the New York Rangers have a repuation, like alot of teams that liked to spend under the old system, to spend on high-priced free agents, and not develop talent the way they perhaps should at times from their own system. Often their emerging talent has been shipped away prematurely. When I get into this money talk though I think of New York Rangers signing Jagr for $11 and what a joke that was perceived to be, but he is doing his best to live up to his now-reduced but still huge salary so far this year. :)

[Mel]

When I get into this money talk though I think of New York Rangers signing Jagr for $11 and what a joke that was perceived to be, but he is doing his best to live up to his now-reduced but still huge salary so far this year. :)

Actually Jagr is the NHL's biggest bargain. Remember, the Rangers did not sign him to $11 mill per, that was the Caps. The Caps then agreed to eat almost half of that in order to trade him away, and Jagr agreed to defer some 1 million a year to make the trade happen. So in sending Anson Carter to the Caps in exchange for Jagr... the Rangers only saw a roughly 2 million increase to their payroll. I'll take that deal any day.

Now, with the roll back... the NHL's #1 scorer is costing the Rangers just over $4 million / year. :pimp:

[wildboy26]

Actually Jagr is the NHL's biggest bargain. Remember, the Rangers did not sign him to $11 mill per, that was the Caps. The Caps then agreed to eat almost half of that in order to trade him away, and Jagr agreed to defer some 1 million a year to make the trade happen. So in sending Anson Carter to the Caps in exchange for Jagr... the Rangers only saw a roughly 2 million increase to their payroll. I'll take that deal any day.

Now, with the roll back... the NHL's #1 scorer is costing the Rangers just over $4 million / year. :pimp:'

Yeah you are right. I forgot that the Capitals were willing to eat some of his old salarly, poor Caps. :eek: That is often ignored when it was bellyached how stupid a move by the New York GM it was.

Jagr at $4 million a year is a huge huge bargain.

[Mel]

That is often ignored when it was bellyached how stupid a move by the New York GM it was.

You might be mixing him up with that other very wealthy Czech - Bobby Holik. :nod:

[wildboy26]

You might be mixing him up with that other very wealthy Czech - Bobby Holik. :nod:

He did play well last NHL season to be fair however. :laughing: Good time to get rid of him and his salary.

[Mel]

Holt made his NHL debut last night, in relief of Lundqvist - who was yanked half way through the 3rd when it appeared the game was out of reach.

Holt saved both shots he faced.

[wildboy26]

Holt made his NHL debut last night, in relief of Lundqvist - who was yanked half way through the 3rd when it appeared the game was out of reach.

Holt saved both shots he faced.

So Holt makes his NHL debut before Montoya, the writing is on the wall. :wicked:

[Mel]

So Holt makes his NHL debut before Montoya, the writing is on the wall. :wicked:
With Weekes on IR and Montoya still injured so they had to bring up somebody :clown:

[wildboy26]

With Weekes on IR and Montoya still injured so they had to bring up somebody :clown:

Yeah but when Weekes was injured Montoya did not get a chance to play, Holt has. If I were him I would go back to college since the writing is on the wall. :wave:

[Mel]

All right wild boy... I'm beginning to wonder what is the point of this thread, if any.

Montoya is higher on the depth chart than Holt. Everybody knows it. If that had changed... Montoya would have been sent down to the ECHL instead of Holt. Montoya had completely out-played Holt in Hartford prior to his injury. So Holt got shipped to the Charlotte Checkers to work on his game.

Maybe you have some dislike for Montoya? Maybe you have some love for Holt? Who knows? Who cares?

Write this on your wall.... "Holt got called up to New York because Montoya was not available".

At this point, nobody can predict how either of these kids careers is going to pan out.

Personally I have no attachment to either kid. I'm just loving the Weekes and Lundqvist combo.... although Lundqvist has hit the skids in the past week. (let up 5 on 21 shots last night)

[wildboy26]

I am calling it right now, Holt played his first hockey in the NHL ahead of Montoya, and when Montoya was healthy earlier this year he did not get to play any minutes, Holt now has. That is the sign Montoya will never make it, or if he does it will be behind Holt. :) Dont tell me I am wrong until I am proven wrong, until then I will believe I am right.

[Mel]

I am calling it right now, Holt played his first hockey in the NHL ahead of Montoya, and when Montoya was healthy earlier this year he did not get to play any minutes, Holt now has. That is the sign Montoya will never make it, or if he does it will be behind Holt. :) Dont tell me I am wrong until I am proven wrong, until then I will believe I am right.

okey doke :thumb:

point noted. :)

[wildboy26]

Just another question, why would they not have called another goalie from the AHL up to replace Weekes and be Lundqvuist's backup, when Holt had been sent down to the ECHL? I know that is an occasional practice to bring somebody right up from there, I am guessing it is because he is young.

[Mel]

The other 2 goalies in Hartford are on AHL PTO contracts.

Holt is under NHL contract.

[wildboy26]

The other 2 goalies in Hartford are on AHL PTO contracts.

Holt is under NHL contract.

Kewl thanks.

Since he is now ahead of Montoya on the depth chart, he could get more chances this year especially with Weekes so injury prone. It will be interesting to see if Lundquist plays in the Olympics for his country or not.

[Mel]

Since he is now ahead of Montoya on the depth chart, he could get more chances this year especially with Weekes so injury prone.

Hey wild boy... what do you make of this? Kevin Weekes has returned, and the Rangers sent Holt back down.... not to Hartford..... but all the way back to the ECHL!

Doesn't that strike you as a bit strange that, even though Montoya is still out of the lineup, the Rangers chose not to reassign Holt to Hartford.

Instead the Wolfpack will continue to rely on Robert Gherson. who is on PTO mind you, in other words pretty much dispensible. This is not a good sign for Holt.

Now this latest news doesn't jive with your theory at all.... does it?


RANGERS REASSIGN CHRIS HOLT TO CHARLOTTE

12/6/2005

New York Rangers President and General Manager Glen Sather announced today that goaltender Chris Holt has been reassigned to the Charlotte Checkers of the East Coast Hockey League (ECHL).

Holt, 20, has dressed in each of the last four games for the Rangers. On Saturday, December 3 at Washington, he made his NHL debut and stopped two shots in 10:24 of action after replacing Henrik Lundqvist in the third period. Prior to his recall on November 25, he posted a 2-2-1 record along with a 4.49 goals against average in seven games with Hartford (AHL) and a 1-1-0 record along with a 3.50 goals against average in two games with Charlotte (ECHL).

From today's practice, all players on the active roster skated and are currently healthy. Kevin Weekes, who has been on the injured reserve since November 25 with an ankle contusion, participated in practice and is expected to return to the lineup for tomorrow's game against the Blackhawks.
http://www.newyorkrangers.com/pressbox/pressreleases.asp?id=1811

http://www.newyorkrangers.com/pressbox/images/primages/Holt_2003NHLDraft-150pr.jpg

[charlio lemieux]

4.49 GAA in the AHL. Is that good? ;)

Goalies have got to have it the worst. Goalies are under more scrutiny as they are routinely the focus of either the win or the loss. And since there are only 2-3 goalies per team there is a greater concentration of tallent trying to earn fewer jobs, than there is for forwards or defense. That said it kind of makes it hard for a 20yr old goalie who appears to now be atleast 5th on a teams depth chart to ever expect to play regularly in the NHL. Next year there will be another goalie or two drafted. The year after the same thing. If he can't win in the AHL, and soon, he may soon be past 9 or 10 in the depth chart.
Look at how Montoya is now waiting behind Lundqvist. Even goalies who deserve a shot in the NHL don't always get them.

[wildboy26]

Hey wild boy... what do you make of this? Kevin Weekes has returned, and the Rangers sent Holt back down.... not to Hartford..... but all the way back to the ECHL!

Doesn't that strike you as a bit strange that, even though Montoya is still out of the lineup, the Rangers chose not to reassign Holt to Hartford.

Instead the Wolfpack will continue to rely on Robert Gherson. who is on PTO mind you, in other words pretty much dispensible. This is not a good sign for Holt.

Now this latest news doesn't jive with your theory at all.... does it?



http://www.newyorkrangers.com/pressbox/pressreleases.asp?id=1811

http://www.newyorkrangers.com/pressbox/images/primages/Holt_2003NHLDraft-150pr.jpg


Your right, that news does not jibe with my theory. My theory is based only on a couple of things. One that Holt played some minutes in the NHL, and Montoya did not. :cool: The other that earlier this year when they called Montoya up, they sent him back down and brought Holt up as backup, before Weekes returned. :wicked:

[Mel]

Your right, that news does not jibe with my theory. My theory is based only on a couple of things. One that Holt played some minutes in the NHL, and Montoya did not. :cool: The other that earlier this year when they called Montoya up, they sent him back down and brought Holt up as backup, before Weekes returned. :wicked:

:laughing: :laughing:

I don't know what you have against Montoya - or is it that you have a crush on Chris Holt.... either way this little crusade of yours is pretty amusing. Funny stuff.

Wild boy face it - Chris Holt has been banished to the ECHL because he has stunk worse than Thursday's trash.

The only reason he got called up as a backup is because he was the only available goalie already under contract to the Rangers. They had no other choice unless they signed another player.

The only reason he got into a game is because it was a 5-0 blowout midway through the 3rd period... so there was absolutely nothing to lose by giving the kid some minutes.

Montoya is excelling in the AHL... that's a good sign for him. Your hero Chris Holt can't even stick in the AHL - even when Montoya's still injured. What's worse.... he has not even put up great numbers in the ECHL.

Maybe he should go back to college. :rollover2

[wildboy26]

Thank you, I am glad you feel I provide some source of entertainment.
:jazz: I am no Holt fan by the way, I know nothing about him except looking up his past stats when searching out who the new goalies in the Rangers system were. I liked Montoya when I saw him play junior events, that is all I know of him. I was just surprised that Holt seemed ahead of him in the Rangers system. I still might be :doh: before the end of the year how dumb I was to make that conclusion. I know I often seem like I just like to :stir: up the pot, but I am a unique person who comes to strange beliefs from time to time.

[Mel]

Thank you, I am glad you feel I provide some source of entertainment.

You'll love this... Montoya has been reassigned to Charlotte. So now they're both down there :clown:

Meanwhile in an odd move, Edmonton has assigned Ty Conklin on a condtioning assignment...... to Hartford :conspire:

Word on the street is that Montoya is only down for the short term, for conditioning after being shelved for a while.

[wildboy26]

You'll love this... Montoya has been reassigned to Charlotte. So now they're both down there :clown:

Meanwhile in an odd move, Edmonton has assigned Ty Conklin on a condtioning assignment...... to Hartford :conspire:

Word on the street is that Montoya is only down for the short term, for conditioning after being shelved for a while.

Let me know if Montoya is Holts backup while there, that would prove my theory right wouldnt it. :cool:

To assign somebody to the ECHL rather than the AHL for a conditioning stint, if they really were an NHL prospect, and to be so desperate to take Ty Conklin on lone for the AHL is telling I might add. As for Ty I bet the Oilers wish they could eliminate him altogether, but they are stuck with his contract.

[Mel]

Actually Wildboy, all this up and down from Charlotte (in general) is a good sign for the team. That may sound weird, but this is the Rangers we're talkiing about, and we all know they never had much use for prospects. They never were big fans of building from within.

But there is a whole new approach in place here now. And that is to build a legitimate 2-tier farm system in Hartford and Charlotte. This is bold new territory for the Rangers, and in fact what they are now building is not all that common for the NHL.

Some NHL clubs own their AHL affiliates, some don't. The Rangers (cablevision) owns the Wolfpack, so it's easy enough for them to synchronize Jim Schonfeld's coaching in Hartford with what the organization wants.

But very few teams (actually I don't think any) own their ECHL affiliates. Most ECHL / AHL relationships are loose. The franchises are independently owned and operated. The ECHL teams do not necessarily teach the same system as their AHL affiliates... some don't even have AHL affiliates. That means in many cases, ECHL teams do not have the same use for a player as the orginizations higher up who own his rights.

Cablevision does not own the Charlotte Checkers, but their coaching staff does work closely with New York and Hartford, all 3 coach the same system and teach the same things. They all have the same approach. When a kid like Hugh Jessiman gets sent to Charlotte. It's not like getting banished to Siberia (as is the case with some teams). Rather, he is playing the same system, getting coached the same way, and having the same expectations on him that he would in Hartford. The coaches there are keying on the same weaknesses in his game and aspects of his development as the parent teams.

When I first heard that Jessiman got shipped to the ECHL I was shocked and bummed out. But now after listening to the analysts and realizing what the organization has built, I am fine with it. I hope Jessiman blooms into the power forward... but more importantly I am happy this organization has developed a true farm system 2 levels down.

The future is bright. The seven years previous now seems like a nightmare that you wake up from and wonder if it was real. So all kidding aside, in years past I would have equated ECHL with a fringe player who has little hope of seeing the NHL... but now (at least with the Rangers) I just think of it as the AA level in baseball. That's just where the player is in his development at the moment.

(As for Conklin, I have no idea why Hartford agreed to take him for conditioning - that does puzzle me)

[KB in Kelowna]

As for Conklin, I have no idea why Hartford agreed to take him for conditioning - that does puzzle me

Just to prove that old incestuous Oiler Ranger relationship is still active in the new NHL?:conspire: :D

[wildboy26]

Actually Wildboy, all this up and down from Charlotte (in general) is a good sign for the team. That may sound weird, but this is the Rangers we're talkiing about, and we all know they never had much use for prospects. They never were big fans of building from within.

But there is a whole new approach in place here now. And that is to build a legitimate 2-tier farm system in Hartford and Charlotte. This is bold new territory for the Rangers, and in fact what they are now building is not all that common for the NHL.

Some NHL clubs own their AHL affiliates, some don't. The Rangers (cablevision) owns the Wolfpack, so it's easy enough for them to synchronize Jim Schonfeld's coaching in Hartford with what the organization wants.

But very few teams (actually I don't think any) own their ECHL affiliates. Most ECHL / AHL relationships are loose. The franchises are independently owned and operated. The ECHL teams do not necessarily teach the same system as their AHL affiliates... some don't even have AHL affiliates. That means in many cases, ECHL teams do not have the same use for a player as the orginizations higher up who own his rights.

Cablevision does not own the Charlotte Checkers, but their coaching staff does work closely with New York and Hartford, all 3 coach the same system and teach the same things. They all have the same approach. When a kid like Hugh Jessiman gets sent to Charlotte. It's not like getting banished to Siberia (as is the case with some teams). Rather, he is playing the same system, getting coached the same way, and having the same expectations on him that he would in Hartford. The coaches there are keying on the same weaknesses in his game and aspects of his development as the parent teams.

When I first heard that Jessiman got shipped to the ECHL I was shocked and bummed out. But now after listening to the analysts and realizing what the organization has built, I am fine with it. I hope Jessiman blooms into the power forward... but more importantly I am happy this organization has developed a true farm system 2 levels down.

The future is bright. The seven years previous now seems like a nightmare that you wake up from and wonder if it was real. So all kidding aside, in years past I would have equated ECHL with a fringe player who has little hope of seeing the NHL... but now (at least with the Rangers) I just think of it as the AA level in baseball. That's just where the player is in his development at the moment.

(As for Conklin, I have no idea why Hartford agreed to take him for conditioning - that does puzzle me)

Kewl thanks for the insight. That does sound unusual for a team to regards its ECHL team that way, like you said it is far more common in baseball for its second level downwards to have any meaning.

[Mel]

Montoya is back in Hartford.

[wildboy26]

Montoya is back in Hartford.

Hopefully he is ready to be back at AHL level.

Also the fact you said the Rangers are using two different teams to develop their developing, promising players could mean more players fighting and competing with each other among those two levels, and for a crack at the NHL level too. :boogie:

[wildboy26]

The Rangers have recalled Holt over Montoya yet again. I have said it many times and this is further proof I was right all along. Holt is far far above Montoya on the depth chart despite the fact he is younger, less accomplished, and has weaker stats. If I was Montoya I would walk out on the team now, especialy if I got an offer for more money in Europe. Montoya has ZERO chance to ever play in the NHL even as a backup.

[Amoroq]

As of Feb 20


Top 20 at a Glance

1. Henrik Lundqvist, G
2. Petr Prucha, RW
3. Marc Staal, D
4. Al Montoya, G
5. Jarkko Immonen, C (Damn those dirty rotten maple leafs!!)
6. Nigel Dawes, LW
7. Lauri Korpikoski, LW
8. Hugh Jessiman, RW
9. Brandon Dubinsky, C
10. Michael Sauer, D
11. Thomas Pock, D
12. Tom Pyatt, C
13. Bruce Graham, C
14. Ivan Baranka, D
15. Darin Olver, C
16. Marc-Andre Cliche, C
17. Bryce Lampman, D
18. Ryan Russell, C
19. Ryan Callahan, RW
20. Dane Byers, LW

I do not see Holt anywhere on this list, as a matter of fact he doesn't even appear on the just missing the cut list ;)

Full details: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=8359&mode=threaded&order=0

[wildboy26]

http://chat.mapleleafs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15480

Look at this. This poll has 12 of 17 thinking Holt will be the Rangers back up by the start of the 07-08 season, and almost everybody who had something to say commented Montoya was virtualy useless because Holt is clearly ahead of him. Are these people all Montoya haters? I doubt it.

[charlio lemieux]

:rolleyes: :no: :no:

[Amoroq]

http://chat.mapleleafs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15480

Look at this. This poll has 12 of 17 thinking Holt will be the Rangers back up by the start of the 07-08 season, and almost everybody who had something to say commented Montoya was virtualy useless because Holt is clearly ahead of him. Are these people all Montoya haters? I doubt it.Its a leafs forum, what the hell do leafs fans know??? :laughing:

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Its a leafs forum, what the hell do leafs fans know??? :laughing:

I'm surprised most of them know who Holt is:thumb:

[wildboy26]

I'm surprised most of them know who Holt is:thumb:

Actually the Leafs forum is not all Leafs fans. Most who went on the thread seem to be Rangers fans.

[Mel]

wildboy,

2 days ago you were carrying on that everybody's favorite super-hero - Chris Holt - was going to back up Weekes tonight... thereby proving your theory once and for all that Montoya is a piece of s--t and Chris Holt is the future of the Rangers.

Now with the game underway. Superman is sitting in Charlotte, North Carolina twiddling his thumbs. Charlotte doesn't even play until Saturday... it would be no problem for the Rangers to call up their "prize goal tender" Chris Holt just for this one game as a backup... but no, they'd rather have him stay in Carolina and do absolutely nothing.

So what do you have to say for yourself?

You were completely and totally wrong. You couldn't have been more wrong if you tried. You will probably stay silent until the next time the Rangers need a practice goalie, and Holt gets the call. Then we'll have to suffer another one of these anti-Montoya threads.

Many Ranger fans I know are not necessarily high on Montoya. He's a good prospect. Most look at him as trade bait (myself included) because Lundqvist is apparently the man. But I have never talked to a single Ranger fan that thinks Chris Holt is a higher prospect than Montoya... (Ranger fans that have even heard of Holt, that is).

The silence is deafening.

[wildboy26]

I recently have talked to Rangers fans who have told me that they are hearing Holt might not even be offered a two way NHL contract next year like he was this year and instead offered a two way AHL-ECHL contract so they dont have to pay him as much and since he is clearly not a potential NHL callup right now. I was very surprised to hear this. Is Holt's stock actualy going down with his performances this year? Maybe Rangers management are not near as high on him as I first assumed.

[wildboy26]

I have been trying to find some recent info on Chris Holt, what is he doing now? I am starting to think he might not be that big a Rangers prospect after all.

[Mel]

He's currently splitting time in Charlotte with Jeff Glass -> http://www.gocheckers.com/goaliestats.php

[wildboy26]

He's currently splitting time in Charlotte with Jeff Glass -> http://www.gocheckers.com/goaliestats.php

Jeff Glass is an extremely good goalie, I saw him play at the World juniors last year and I was impressed and he was arguably the best goalie in the WHL last year. It sounds like the Rangers have an embarassment of goaltending riches on their team.

[Mel]

Hey Wild boy... Alvaro is in town backing up Kevin Weekes. Lundqvist is day-to-day with a hip problem.

You think he might see some NHL minutes while he's here?

[wildboy26]

Hey Wild boy... Alvaro is in town backing up Kevin Weekes. Lundqvist is day-to-day with a hip problem.

You think he might see some NHL minutes while he's here?

I am going to guess he gets one game. If not one period. :)