View Full Version : Anahiem/Phoenix Incident; Fedoruk/Nedved, Doan, Gauthier
charlio lemieux
11-22-05, 11:03 PM
Fedoruk just knocked Nedved out. Apparently Gauthier KO'd Lupul seconds before.
Fedoruk 5 min Maj
Plus fight Fedoruk and ODonnell
Fedoruk just knocked Nedved out. Apparently Gauthier KO'd Lupul seconds before.
Fedoruk 5 min Maj
Plus fight Fedoruk and ODonnell
Don't know about nedved, but if Lupul was pulling the kind of crap he was against the Canucks, he deserved to get smoked.
charlio lemieux
11-22-05, 11:51 PM
Apparently Fedoruk was Headhunting for some revenge, for the Lupul hit. It was all in a few seconds, the two hits then the fight. O'donnell got the Instigator.(atta boy) That is the one rule that has to go. When it's gone, so to will be running the goalie, and cheapshots on the all-stars.
Nedved was down for the fight, he was completely dazed, and still wobbley had to be helped to the dressing room.
Lupul wasn't much quicker, but apparently in better shape.
From the sounds of it, Fedoruk acted out of revenge.
Good for him. He did the smart thing too.. you don't rock the guy who did it, you retaliate and go after his star. Sucks for Nedved, but he has no one to blame but Guathier; who is quickly becoming the second coming of Bryan Marchment.
charlio lemieux
11-23-05, 12:02 AM
From the sounds of it, Fedoruk acted out of revenge.
Good for him. He did the smart thing too.. you don't rock the guy who did it, you retaliate and go after his star. Sucks for Nedved, but he has no one to blame but Guathier; who is quickly becoming the second coming of Bryan Marchment.
"....acted out of revenge. Good for him." ???
I hope you teach this to your children.
Somehow I think your tune would be different if it was Smyth not Nedved.
"....acted out of revenge. Good for him." ???
I hope you teach this to your children.
Somehow I think your tune would be different if it was Smyth not Nedved.
If Laraque had just clocked someone? Nope. Lucky for me Laraque doesn't clock anyone.
I'm speaking like a hockey player here. If you hit a teammate.. ESPEACILLY a smaller/skilled player, I'm instantly going to do the exact same thing to you if there's no call.
charlio lemieux
11-23-05, 12:18 AM
If Laraque had just clocked someone? Nope. Lucky for me Laraque doesn't clock anyone.
I'm speaking like a hockey player here. If you hit a teammate.. ESPEACILLY a smaller/skilled player, I'm instantly going to do the exact same thing to you if there's no call.
I was unaware hitting was not allowed. Cheapshots are different, but no word on if Gauthier's was or not, Fedoruk's definately was. :no:
Come on there's enough injuries in the league without having to go headhunting. Since Gauthier threw the hit, go after him. :box:
This hit potentially could end Nedved's carreer as any concussion could. Now what kind of penalty can you give a guy who has potentially ended someones carreer with an unwarranted act of violence? :confused:
According to Bettman, 18 games max, provided there's a lockout. :o :(
I was unaware hitting was not allowed. Cheapshots are different, but no word on if Gauthier's was or not, Fedoruk's definately was. :no:
Gauthier elbowed not one but TWO Duck players. Doan also gave a helluva sucker punch. I'm in disbelief how he didn't get a penalty either time.
Come on there's enough injuries in the league without having to go headhunting. Since Gauthier threw the hit, go after him. :box:
You set a precedent if the refs won't call it. If you're going to go after our stars, we're going to go after yours.
This hit potentially could end Nedved's carreer as any concussion could. Now what kind of penalty can you give a guy who has potentially ended someones carreer with an unwarranted act of violence? :confused:
According to Bettman, 18 games max, provided there's a lockout. :o :(
I'm not saying what Fedoruk did was clean. I'm saying what he did is what he had to do to make sure no one takes a run at HIS teammates. If you want to get angry, complain about Gauthier running around with his elbows up or about the refs for allowing him to do so. I've played a lot of hockey, and any time the refs start to let guys run around like that it always ends poorly. That said, what Fedoruk did WAS warranted; he did his job, and that's protecting his teammates in any way he can.
Fedoruk should get 2 games, as should Gauthier.. Doan should probally get 2 as well, for his sucker punch.
No need to bring Bertuzzi into this, at all.
The NHL needs to stop calling the result of the play, and call the play. Just because someone bounces back up or not should have zero result on the penalty.
charlio lemieux
11-23-05, 9:23 AM
Gauthier elbowed not one but TWO Duck players. Doan also gave a helluva sucker punch. I'm in disbelief how he didn't get a penalty either time.
You set a precedent if the refs won't call it. If you're going to go after our stars, we're going to go after yours.
I'm not saying what Fedoruk did was clean. I'm saying what he did is what he had to do to make sure no one takes a run at HIS teammates. If you want to get angry, complain about Gauthier running around with his elbows up or about the refs for allowing him to do so. I've played a lot of hockey, and any time the refs start to let guys run around like that it always ends poorly. That said, what Fedoruk did WAS warranted; he did his job, and that's protecting his teammates in any way he can.
Fedoruk should get 2 games, as should Gauthier.. Doan should probally get 2 as well, for his sucker punch.
No need to bring Bertuzzi into this, at all.
The NHL needs to stop calling the result of the play, and call the play. Just because someone bounces back up or not should have zero result on the penalty.
If Gauthier is running around with his elbows flying, go after him. The NHL players, "Policing Ourselves" mentallity is not this. It should have been Gauthier not Nedved that was retaliated against. What your saying makes no sense in a day and age where the league wants to reinvent it's image as a league of skill and tallent and not a league of thugs. That's the NBA and NFL's territory.
If a sherriff who was in charge of protecting a town, shot the bank robber's friend or cousin and let the bank robber go free, what justice is that? That is exactly what Fedoruk did.
Is he afraid of Gauthier?
Why did he have to go after a guy like Nedved?
As for not bringing Bertuzzi into this, this is almost identicle in circumstance, but thankfully less traumatic in the out come.
Bertuzzi perpetuated an unwarranted act of violence on Steve Moore, in retribution for Moore's hit on Bertuzzi's teammate.
Fedoruk perpetuated an unwarranted act of violence on Petr Nedved, in retribution for Gauthier's hit on Bertuzzi's teammate.
Actually when you look at it like that, Fedoruk's action is worse than Bertuzzi's, because he went after a completely innocent victim who had nothing to do innitialising the incident. Again we are lucky that the outcome was far less serious than Moore's. That said the concussion could still end Nedved's carreer.
The NHL needs to stop calling the result of the play, and call the play. Just because someone bounces back up or not should have zero result on the penalty.[/
I was thinking the same thing when Hemsky came back after his acting perfomance on Sat. against the Hawks. Like I mentioned earlier it brought back memories of Ribeiro, rolling around like he was broke in two. Why should the Hawk player get 5min and a game when Hemsky is back out for the next shift? Rediculous!
The result of the play is exactly how the league should penalize players who exhibited an intent to injure. I would have no problems making the offender sit out as long as the victim has too.
But since you want to look at just the play itself, my comparison above shows how similar the two cases are.
So.. uh.. sticking your knee out at Hemsky isn't an intent to injure? :conspire: And.. you just managed to say you agree, when you actually disagree with what I said. Doesn't matter if Hemsky jumps back up for the next shift or tears his ACL. It's a dirty hit, you look at the fact it's a dirty hit and NOTHING ELSE.
"It was something that had to be addressed," Fedoruk said. "I'm not naming names but you have a guy out there with a visor on running around like he's King Kong. He's not going to back it up. If the refs aren't going to call it, then it falls on the players to take it on. There were so many high hits and late hits."
"You never want to see anybody get hurt," Fedoruk said. "But I'm an emotional player. When I see one of my teammates get hurt, I'm going to send a message that we're not going to stand for it."
"In my eyes, it's an eye for an eye. I don't ever want to see anybody get hurt, but when my players get hurt, I feel obliged to send a message that I'm not going to let this happen. I think Nedved can thank his teammate for what happened."
Sounds like what I said. Todd's the man.
Going to slide this into state of the game and change the title, if you have a problem just PM me Charlio.
http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Home/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CP-AllSports&newsitemid=28479018
I'd like to know what the hell a visor has to do with a guy deliberately attempting to injure a totally innocent player? Sounds like a pathetically weak excuse to me. Didn't see the Gauthier hits, but they were characterized as "questionable, high hits", not elbows, and I agree with charlio, you go after the perpetrator if you don't like what he's doing. If he keeps it up (as long as we're talking dirty stuff, not CLEAN hits that so many seem to have a problem with these days) then you might throw a big hit on a star on his team, but you certainly don't need to do what Fedoruk did, that's just goon bs from all accounts.
And Fedoruk might want to take a look at his own teammates as the inistigators of the whole thing. If guys like Lupull and Rob Niedermayer have been playing like they were against tha Canucks (late hits and repeatedly running the goaltender), then they probably deserved what Gauthier threw at them, especially if it was nothing more than a hard hit as is being said. Wonder how Fedoruk would feel about the Canucks taking his "eye for an eye" attitude and throwing a late hit on Scott Niedermayer because Lupul did to Salo, or running Giguere 5 times in one game because that's what Rob Niedermayer and Lupul were doing?
btw Doan did get a penalty, a major, and faces suspension for his sucker punch.
Doan and Fedoruk will both get 1 game, is what I've heard.
The visor thing is a weak excuse, not arguing that. That said, if I see someone take a run at Hemsky.. I don't want you to get him. Go out and nail Naslund. THAT sends a message. You mess with our talent, I'm messing with yours.
I also say that if the instigator rule isn't in hockey, then this is a non-issue, as someone can drop the gloves and pound the bejesus out of Gauthier. Obviously the instigator rule played a part in this, because Fedoruk believed that Gauthier wouldn't fight him.
Doan and Fedoruk will both get 1 game, is what I've heard.
The visor thing is a weak excuse, not arguing that. That said, if I see someone take a run at Hemsky.. I don't want you to get him. Go out and nail Naslund. THAT sends a message. You mess with our talent, I'm messing with yours.
I also say that if the instigator rule isn't in hockey, then this is a non-issue, as someone can drop the gloves and pound the bejesus out of Gauthier. Obviously the instigator rule played a part in this, because Fedoruk believed that Gauthier wouldn't fight him.
See I find THAT to be totally weak as well, if you're so afraid of a 2 minute instigator penalty, why would you be more than willing to take a major for intent to injure, as well as a suspension?:confused:
If Fedoruk really wanted to send a message, he should've gone after Gauthier, whether Gauthier "wanted to" or not, I suppose Nedved "wanted to" have his head almost taken off. :rolleyes: Instead the only message Fedoruk sent is that he's an idiot.
This is what really irks me about Fedoruk's post game quotes:
I think Nedved can thank his teammate for what happened
What a freakin tool. You knock a guy like Nedved into next weak with some cheap garbage and then mock him in the media after the game? Sorry, regardless of his intentions, he has no class whatsoever.
I never liked him much as a Flyer either... I'm not gonna say I was happy when Eric Cairns busted his face to pieces, but I didn't mind it either ;)
This is what really irks me about Fedoruk's post game quotes:
What a freakin tool. You knock a guy like Nedved into next weak with some cheap garbage and then mock him in the media after the game? Sorry, regardless of his intentions, he has no class whatsoever.
I never liked him much as a Flyer either... I'm not gonna say I was happy when Eric Cairns busted his face to pieces, but I didn't mind it either ;)
Mel knows. The jackass pulls a vicious revenge headshot and then tries to justify it with pathetic excuses and false bravado. :no: Sad...
I guess Salei can "thank Fedoruk" for getting suckerpunched. :rolleyes:
MadDevil
11-23-05, 3:57 PM
Let me get this straight, if a guy takes a run at a star player, it's better for somebody to take a run at a star player on his team than it would be to go after the guy who actually did it? Sounds more like vigilantism to me. And people wonder why some think of the NHL as nothing more than barbaric boxing on ice.:rolleyes:
swflyers25
11-23-05, 4:11 PM
Fedoruk vs O'donnell
http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf1013/051122_fedoruk_odonnell.wmv
Doan vs Vishnevski
http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf1013/051122_doan_vishnevski.wmv
Let me get this straight, if a guy takes a run at a star player, it's better for somebody to take a run at a star player on his team than it would be to go after the guy who actually did it? Sounds more like vigilantism to me. And people wonder why some think of the NHL as nothing more than barbaric boxing on ice.:rolleyes:
Vigianantism is a necessary evil when the ref's aren't calling the game.
Madferret
11-23-05, 4:14 PM
Sue you got any of the hits?
I haven't seen them or found them yet..
thanks swf. I froze it on the Nedved hit. Fedoruk was literally a foot off the ice and he nailed Nedved completely blind. Ugly stuff.
Gauthier didn't leave his feet, and at least Lupul was facing him with his head up, and had some chance to react to what was a high elbow.
I'm not saying the Gauthier elbow should have went unchallenged... but Nedved got it so much worse, especially being caught off guard like that. Fedoruk says "eye for an eye". But his actions were "a head for an eye".
If I was Campbell, I would fine Fedoruk a small fortune for bragging about that crap to the media, but that's just me.
Well having now seen it, it's not as bad as I'd imagined, yes Nedved was blindsided, and it was obviously intended to hurt him while vulnerable, definitely a vicious charge at least, but again not what I expected. And the Gauthier hit definitely looked like an elbow, and should've been a penalty and responded to, but again, ON Gauthier, NOT Nedved. I do however understand the frustration and subsequent vigilantiism on a guy like Gauthier who has probably cheapshotted a few Ducks as he has many teams' players, but why not headhunt him instead of an innocent Nedved?
As much as Moore deserved some payback, nobody wanted Bertuzzi to do what he did, but would it have been better if he'd done it to Joe Sakic instead??? :confused:
On Doan, I wouldn't call that a suckerpunch, and Vishnevski (thought somebody had said it was Salei?) had just laid a pretty good two-hander on another Coyote, so he was hardly an innocent on the play.
Madferret
11-23-05, 5:27 PM
Didn't realize the Fedoruk elbow was at the start of the fight.
That's pretty bad. What is Todd's track record? I'd say he gets 5 at least..
EDIT - He got 3...
Ducks' Fedoruk suspended three games
TSN.ca Staff
Anaheim's Todd Fedoruk has been suspended three games for his hit Tuesday on Phoenix's Petr Nedved. Fedoruk publicly stated after the Coyotes 2-1 victory over the Ducks that he was exacting revenge for an earlier hit by Phoenix's Denis Gauthier on the Ducks' Joffrey Lupul and Todd Marchant.
Phoenix winger Shane Doan was also fined $1,500 for fighting Fedoruk at the end of the game and thier was fined $1,500 for his hit on Lupul.
''It was something that had to be addressed,'' Fedoruk said after the game. ''There was a guy (Gauthier) out there with a visor on running around like he's King Kong. He's not going to back it up. If the refs aren't going to call stuff like that, it falls on the players. You can only take so much, watching your teammates get late hits, high hits.
''In my eyes, it's an eye for an eye. I don't ever want to see anybody get hurt, but when my players get hurt, I feel obliged to send a message that I'm not going to let this happen. I think Nedved can thank his teammate for what happened.''
Both Nedved and Lupul suffered what appear to be concussions from the hits. Fedoruk received a match penalty for his hit, while Gauthier was not penalized.
Sources say the league has not yet decided whether Gauthier's hit on Lupul - the more questionable of the two Gauthier hits - is worthy of supplementary discipline.
Madferret
11-23-05, 5:42 PM
..and Havlat got 5 games.
I don't get it.
:no:
Well having now seen it, it's not as bad as I'd imagined, yes Nedved was blindsided, and it was obviously intended to hurt him while vulnerable, definitely a vicious charge at least, but again not what I expected. And the Gauthier hit definitely looked like an elbow, and should've been a penalty and responded to, but again, ON Gauthier, NOT Nedved. I do however understand the frustration and subsequent vigilantiism on a guy like Gauthier who has probably cheapshotted a few Ducks as he has many teams' players, but why not headhunt him instead of an innocent Nedved?
As much as Moore deserved some payback, nobody wanted Bertuzzi to do what he did, but would it have been better if he'd done it to Joe Sakic instead??? :confused:
On Doan, I wouldn't call that a suckerpunch, and Vishnevski (thought somebody had said it was Salei?) had just laid a pretty good two-hander on another Coyote, so he was hardly an innocent on the play.
I agree the hit wasn't THAT bad. It was still a hockey play as well.
The problem with Bert/Moore is that it wasn't a hockey play (I regress to the instigator penalty.. but that's another story). Moore also wasn't running around gooning it up like Gauthier.
Fully agree on Doan, though it was a cheapshot.
I agree the hit wasn't THAT bad. It was still a hockey play as well.
The problem with Bert/Moore is that it wasn't a hockey play (I regress to the instigator penalty.. but that's another story). Moore also wasn't running around gooning it up like Gauthier.
Fully agree on Doan, though it was a cheapshot.
C'mon, you can't seriously be saying that Fedoruk was "playing hockey" when he did that, he was out for revenge, he said so himself.
Moore wasn't gooning it up right then, but his deliberate self-launching headshot on a vulnerable Naslund was one hell of a lot less of a "hockey play" than Gauthier's hit on Lupul.
Some thoughts...
I didn't realize Gauthier's elbow was not penalized. It most certainly should have been.
Yoata touched on an interesting point bringing up Sakic. Nedved is European and let's face it, he's never been an overly popular player. In selecting who's head to take off was Nedved in the wrong place at the wrong time? or did Fedoruk purposely single him out for payback? I mean Nedved is clearly what you'd consider a "talent" guy as opposed to a grinder or a banger... but he has only 7 points on the season, and there's 12 other guys on his team with more points. (Incidentally Nedved and Fedoruk both have 7 points) He is in no way a top gun in Phoenix by any stretch. There are a dozen other guys that would have been more logical choices than Nedved. So why was Nedved the target? :conspire:
It makes that "you go after our top guys then I'll go after your top guys" argument kind of weak doesn't it? Nedved is far from a top guy... Way less important to his team than Lupul by far, scoring wise.
Now let's suppose it was a different team, would Fedoruk have the cahones to pull that same thing to a Joe Sakic, a Steve Yzerman, or a more highly regarded North American player? And if so would he be so smug and defiant about it after the game to the point of rubbing it in? ... I wonder... Food for thought.
3 games to me is light. It goes without saying, and this always comes up in these types of situations... but if Nedved did not get up but rather left the ice feet first... Fedoruk, for the exact same action, would probably be looking at Bertuzzi-type discipline. I know the injury factor and it's role in these punishments is a dead horse - just an observation. (edit: I meant to say Domi-type discipline - for Niedermayer - not Bertuzzi)
I think Fedoruk felt he was doing the right thing but I would say he took it too far. Again, what really offends me more than anything is running immediately to the papers after the game and rubbing it in on Nedved, who was basically an innocent, unlucky recipient of Fedoruk's cheap shot. Taking a guy out is one thing... but it's not very often that the guys delivering a blatant attempt-to-injure cheap shot goes bragging to the papers about it the first chance he gets. Very strange, and VERY classless.
I said it was a hockey play.. and it was. A dirty one, but it's still a hockey play to hit a guy who has possesion of the puck. He was out for revenge, not denying that, but what he did doens't compare to a non-hockey play where you simply punch someone in the back of the head.
The difference between Moore/Gauthier is that Gauthier was running around doing it to several players.. not just one. Moore's was a one time thing. Both were "hockey plays". They were just dirty ones.
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about comparing this to what happened with Steve Moore.. very poor comparison.
TimmyTabasco
11-23-05, 6:34 PM
but he has only 7 points on the season, and there's 12 other guys on his team with more points. (Incidentally Nedved and Fedoruk both have 7 points) He is in no way a top gun in Phoenix by any stretch. There are a dozen other guys that would have been more logical choices than Nedved. So why was Nedved the target? :conspire:
Good points Mel
However, Nedved is usually a top player. Sure, this season he is really struggling
But..I still think he'd be considered a top player..by players on another team
Administrator
11-23-05, 6:56 PM
Good points Mel
However, Nedved is usually a top player. Sure, this season he is really struggling
But..I still think he'd be considered a top player..by players on another team
That's true, I guess Fedoruk cannot be faulted for not knowing Nedved's stats off the top of his head.
Some thoughts...
I didn't realize Gauthier's elbow was not penalized. It most certainly should have been.
Yoata touched on an interesting point bringing up Sakic. Nedved is European and let's face it, he's never been an overly popular player. In selecting who's head to take off was Nedved in the wrong place at the wrong time? or did Fedoruk purposely single him out for payback? I mean Nedved is clearly what you'd consider a "talent" guy as opposed to a grinder or a banger... but he has only 7 points on the season, and there's 12 other guys on his team with more points. (Incidentally Nedved and Fedoruk both have 7 points) He is in no way a top gun in Phoenix by any stretch. There are a dozen other guys that would have been more logical choices than Nedved. So why was Nedved the target? :conspire:
It makes that "you go after our top guys then I'll go after your top guys" argument kind of weak doesn't it? Nedved is far from a top guy... Way less important to his team than Lupul by far, scoring wise.
Now let's suppose it was a different team, would Fedoruk have the cahones to pull that same thing to a Joe Sakic, a Steve Yzerman, or a more highly regarded North American player? And if so would he be so smug and defiant about it after the game to the point of rubbing it in? ... I wonder... Food for thought.
3 games to me is light. It goes without saying, and this always comes up in these types of situations... but if Nedved did not get up but rather left the ice feet first... Fedoruk, for the exact same action, would probably be looking at Bertuzzi-type discipline. I know the injury factor and it's role in these punishments is a dead horse - just an observation. (edit: I meant to say Domi-type discipline - for Niedermayer - not Bertuzzi)
I think Fedoruk felt he was doing the right thing but I would say he took it too far. Again, what really offends me more than anything is running immediately to the papers after the game and rubbing it in on Nedved, who was basically an innocent, unlucky recipient of Fedoruk's cheap shot. Taking a guy out is one thing... but it's not very often that the guys delivering a blatant attempt-to-injure cheap shot goes bragging to the papers about it the first chance he gets. Very strange, and VERY classless.
I agree that Fedoruk wouldn't dare do that to Sakic or Yzerman, let alone spout off about it being "justice" of any kind, but I doubt he specifically targeted Nedved, it was probably his first/best opportunity for a big "hit" (so that some might claim it was a "hockey" play).
I think what you're basically saying is punish the act, not the result, if so I agree 100%.
I said it was a hockey play.. and it was. A dirty one, but it's still a hockey play to hit a guy who has possesion of the puck. He was out for revenge, not denying that, but what he did doens't compare to a non-hockey play where you simply punch someone in the back of the head.
The difference between Moore/Gauthier is that Gauthier was running around doing it to several players.. not just one. Moore's was a one time thing. Both were "hockey plays". They were just dirty ones.
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about comparing this to what happened with Steve Moore.. very poor comparison.
Is there a difference? Perhaps in the type of act, but the intent was the same, so the rest is pretty much splitting hairs.
I don't care for Gauthier's cheapshot crap, but he wasn't "running around", he threw a hit and his elbow got up, and again it wasn't anwhere near the kind of non-hockey play that Moore's was, and Naslund wasn't Moore's only victim either, can't remember who exactly but I know it was reported he had put out another star player on a different team prior to Naslund with a dirty hit.
Regardless of whether they're comparable or not, the question was should the "vengeance" be meaded out to the perpetrator, or a similar player as the victim on the other team, ie would it have been better for Bertuzzi to go after Sakic, Hejduk or Forsberg instead of Moore?
charlio lemieux
11-23-05, 7:33 PM
So.. uh.. sticking your knee out at Hemsky isn't an intent to injure? :conspire: And.. you just managed to say you agree, when you actually disagree with what I said. Doesn't matter if Hemsky jumps back up for the next shift or tears his ACL. It's a dirty hit, you look at the fact it's a dirty hit and NOTHING ELSE.
"It was something that had to be addressed," Fedoruk said. "I'm not naming names but you have a guy out there with a visor on running around like he's King Kong. He's not going to back it up. If the refs aren't going to call it, then it falls on the players to take it on. There were so many high hits and late hits."
"You never want to see anybody get hurt," Fedoruk said. "But I'm an emotional player. When I see one of my teammates get hurt, I'm going to send a message that we're not going to stand for it."
"In my eyes, it's an eye for an eye. I don't ever want to see anybody get hurt, but when my players get hurt, I feel obliged to send a message that I'm not going to let this happen. I think Nedved can thank his teammate for what happened."
Sounds like what I said. Todd's the man.
Going to slide this into state of the game and change the title, if you have a problem just PM me Charlio.
The Hawk player did not stick his knee out. His leg was planted and he shifted his body weight and he would had of knocked Ales into next week with a clean hit, but Ales moved. Only he didn't move far enough. It was his award winning performance I was talking about. He looked like someone had taken a chainsaw to his leg. He totally sold the penalty. If he had of got up like Tucker did, it may not have even been a 2 minute minor. But he acted like his leg was broke, and suckered the refs into a 5minute major. The Refs noticed, they allowed the Hawks to become more agressive with Hemsky. Aucoin, I think it was, took Hemsky down, after his performance, much harder than what Aucoin was getting penalized for earlier. But the Refs let it go.
"It was something that had to be addressed," Fedoruk said. "I'm not naming names but you have a guy out there with a visor on running around like he's King Kong. He's not going to back it up. If the refs aren't going to call it, then it falls on the players to take it on. There were so many high hits and late hits."
At what point after Gauthier's hit did Fedoruk try to fight Gauthier, and have Gauthier not "back it up"? Or even give Gauthier the patented Marty McSorely "attention getter"?
"In my eyes, it's an eye for an eye. I don't ever want to see anybody get hurt, but when my players get hurt, I feel obliged to send a message that I'm not going to let this happen. I think Nedved can thank his teammate for what happened."
Blaming other people for your own actions, how mature. Fedoruks an idiot. He just proved it. If he wanted to send a message, it should have been addressed to Gauthier.
You want Eye for an Eye? Fine, but you take your retribution out on the perpetrator, not a bystander. I wouldn't have cared what Fedoruk did, to an extent, if he had done it to Gauthier, but he did it to a guy who is in the twilight of his carreer and probably never thrown 20 Fedoruk-like body checks in his life.
Iced Tea
11-23-05, 10:46 PM
Fedoruk is suspended for three games, Shane Doan is fined $1,500 for fighting Fedoruk at the end of the game and Gauthier was fined $1,500 for his hit on Lupul. :confused:
Way to go, Colin Campbell. Way to send a message that these actions are wrong. Fedoruk gets a long weekend off to spend American Thanksgiving with the family, and Doan and Gauthier can't afford to stuff large bills in to strippers' g-strings for the next week.
I bet Fedoruk, Doan and Gauthier are regretting their actions and will likely never do it again. :rolleyes:
Frankly, after the whole Bertuzzi/Moore incident, I thought the NHL disciplinarian was waking up and cracking down on the crap happening on the ice. Fedoruk launched himself off the ice before hitting Nedved; if that wasn't intent to injure, I don't know what is. If Bertuzzi's callous actions and subsequent suspension are the current gauge by which others are measured; Fedoruk should have got at least 5 games and a good size fine for his headhunting tactics. I'd be happy with a 10 game suspension.
Considering that Gauthier was not penalized, why did he receive a fine? Maybe the refs need to be disciplined for missing a call or is it just a case of the NHL office ignoring the refs' judgement and trying to appease the Coyotes.
As for Doan's fine,
National Post (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/sports/story.html?id=bd7160f5-b242-48b7-bbde-ab1314bd0120) says
...
It appeared as though Gretzky was also going to be in trouble when Doan got an instigator penalty after punching Ducks defenceman Vitaly Vishnevski in the face at the end of Tuesday's 2-1 Anaheim victory over the Coyotes. Doan received instigator, fighting, misconduct and game-misconduct calls.
Part of the new NHL rules call for an automatic $10,000 fine to the head coach and a one-game suspension to the player who gets an instigator fighting penalty in the last five minutes of a game, a rule the competition committee put in to discourage late-game brawls.
But NHL disciplinarian Colin Campbell, who pushed for the new rule, also reserves the right to determine whether the rule applies on a case-by-case basis.
The spirit of the rule was to get rid of coaches putting out their tough guys with a minute left in the game to settle a score.
In this case, Doan is the captain and top player on the Coyotes, not a goon, so Campbell decided not to fine Gretzky and not to suspend Doan, although Doan was fined $1,500 Wednesday.
"It's something I crafted and fought for to get with the competition committee and the general managers," Campbell said Wednesday. "The key to the whole rule was that it would be automatic, no appeal by the team, but I would review every instigator in the last five minutes to see if it would pass the litmus test.
"And that would be, is this guy a two-shift guy who was out to send a message? Was it a tough guy doing his thing and leaving his calling card? Obviously, when you're talking about Doan, he played the most minutes in the game, you're not sending him out to send a message. So I'm going to assess each and everyone when it happens."
Doan's incident came at the end of an ugly game, one that saw both Nedved and Ducks winger Joffrey Lupul suffering apparent concussions after separate, borderline hits.
...Doan punched Vishnevski in the face; I don't give a rat's ass about the status of the guilty player, the rule should be the same. What's to keep other top line players from punching players in the head in the last 5 minutes because they know Colin Campbell will go soft on them?
Madferret
11-23-05, 10:48 PM
..and Havlat got 5 games.
I don't get it.
:no:
Still don't get it..
Iced Tea
11-23-05, 11:04 PM
Still don't get it..Havlat nearly cut the nads off of Gill, that might be part of the reason. :laughing:
Kidding aside, if Havlat gets 5 games, Fedoruk should have received a few more.
Canadian26
11-23-05, 11:22 PM
I dont know if I can find Fedoruk's justification for his dirty hit. Watch sportsnet, they have a quote from him. He basically, comes off as a total jerk indicating it was an "eye for an eye" issue. That kinda mentality is what gets players seriously injured, he should have been suspended for longer to send a message... but the more things change, the more they stay the same...
Maybe the refs need to be disciplined for missing a call or is it just a case of the NHL office ignoring the refs' judgement and trying to appease the Coyotes.
No no no IT, you've got it all wrong, it's stuff like brushing past a guy without saying "pardon me" and failing to use mouthwash before breathing on an opponent that are penalties in the "new NHL", not insignificant stuff like elbows to the head, silly. :no:
MadDevil
11-24-05, 1:43 AM
I have to admit that after having seen the Fedoruk hit several times, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. He was obviously out for revenge, and intended to do to Nedved what Gauthier did to Lupul. The only problem I have is the target Fedoruk chose. I understand that when a teammate gets hit like Lupul did, the Ducks feel an obligation to defend that player. The thing I don't get is why didn't somebody on the ice go after Gauthier right after the hit on Lupul, rather than waiting for Fedoruk to run somebody who had nothing to do with the play.
The other thing that gets me about this is the slap-on-the-wrist punishments that were handed out. I mean seriously, a 3 game suspension, and a couple of relatively minor fines for crap that gives the NHL a bad reputation? It doesn't seem to me that the NHL really wants to stop this kind of stuff from happening (although it's probably impossible to completely stop it).
Personally I think the NHL needs to do what the NCAA did about hitting from behind. In college hockey, if a player hits another one from behind into the boards, it's an automatic 5 minute major and a game ejection (not entirely sure about the ejection though). If the NHL instituted a similar policy on hits from behind, and blows to the head, maybe some of this crap would go away. The again, I guess the NHL has to actually care about it first.:rolleyes:
Personally I think the NHL needs to do what the NCAA did about hitting from behind. In college hockey, if a player hits another one from behind into the boards, it's an automatic 5 minute major and a game ejection (not entirely sure about the ejection though). If the NHL instituted a similar policy on hits from behind, and blows to the head, maybe some of this crap would go away. The again, I guess the NHL has to actually care about it first.
I hate a personal vendetta against that rule.
Mostly because I'm serving a 2-game suspension on it thanks to a useless ref.
There's two major probelms with the idea..
#1) Players will intentionally turn their back. Don't kid yourself.
#2) On a play like I had.. forward is cutting towards the net, defenseman is angling him off, there's impact somewhere in the circle, it's very easy for one player or the other to get position on one. Legs get mixed up, and it doesn't take much for one guy to suddenly follow another into the boards. Doesn't help when the idiot falls around the goalline and goes into the boards head first.. but I regress.
MadDevil
11-24-05, 3:06 AM
There's two major problems with the idea..
#1) Players will intentionally turn their back. Don't kid yourself.
#2) On a play like I had.. forward is cutting towards the net, defenseman is angling him off, there's impact somewhere in the circle, it's very easy for one player or the other to get position on one. Legs get mixed up, and it doesn't take much for one guy to suddenly follow another into the boards. Doesn't help when the idiot falls around the goalline and goes into the boards head first.. but I regress.
True, but consider what happens if you keep letting this happen. It's only a matter of time until a player is seriously injured, or possibly even paralyzed because of an incident like this. Is it better to have a player out for 5 minutes on a questionable call, or have a star player's career ruined forever? Granted, the chance is probably pretty small, but is it worth the risk?
Maybe the college example isn't the best, but I do think the NHL has to do something to deter players from hitting others from behind (although that hasn't been a huge problem this year), and to punish more severely blows to the head. Maybe stiffer punishments, instead of this $1,000 fine BS.
Then again, if the instigator rule was taken out, maybe this crap wouldn't be happening...
Canadian26
11-24-05, 3:16 AM
Fans have been asking for harsher punishments for a while now, and it doenst look like its going to happen. They should have made an example with this game, letting the first incident slide just opens up the gates for more incidents with small punishment. It makes it more likely players are going to continue to engage in the same type of behaviour.
charlio lemieux
11-24-05, 10:54 AM
I hate a personal vendetta against that rule.
Mostly because I'm serving a 2-game suspension on it thanks to a useless ref.
There's two major probelms with the idea..
#1) Players will intentionally turn their back. Don't kid yourself.
#2) On a play like I had.. forward is cutting towards the net, defenseman is angling him off, there's impact somewhere in the circle, it's very easy for one player or the other to get position on one. Legs get mixed up, and it doesn't take much for one guy to suddenly follow another into the boards. Doesn't help when the idiot falls around the goalline and goes into the boards head first.. but I regress.
I actually see your fist point happen quite often right now. Players are getting forced to the outside by a defenseman, and when they reach the corner they spin around and exposed their back to the defenseman, who is already got them lined up. Is this supposed to stop the defense because they will be hitting from behind, and possibly boarding? :shrug:
The attacking player usually crouches down a bit to help the turn, and puts their head at elbow and subsequently top-of-the-boards, level. Not such a good Idea.:doh:
So to go to an automatic major for hitting from behind, I agree would only have more people exposing their backs when they know they will be hit, just to draw the penalty. Which in turn would most likely lead to even more injuries.:no:
THE HACK
11-25-05, 3:00 PM
I don't know what I'm more appalled at,Fedoruk getting only 3 games,Doan getting nothing or Gretzky getting his $10,000 fine rescinded.How about fair rules for everyone instead of this double standard bs from the league.Once again the NHL loses credibility!!!:no:
Cheers
charlio lemieux
11-25-05, 3:07 PM
I don't know what I'm more appalled at,Fedoruk getting only 3 games,Doan getting nothing or Gretzky getting his $10,000 fine rescinded.How about fair rules for everyone instead of this double standard bs from the league.Once again the NHL loses credibility!!!:no:
Cheers
I think the reason the Gretzky got away without a fine because Doan isn't really the enforcer type. He is viewed as an offensive player, so in that light he was on the ice to score not fight.
If it had been a player like Tkachuk or Shanahan or even Iginla there may have been a case for the fine, as they are also viewed as tough guys/ fighters, as well as scorers.
If it had been Domi, Laraque, Breashear or any other Enforcer the fine and suspension would have been automatic.
THE HACK
11-25-05, 3:29 PM
I think the reason the Gretzky got away without a fine because Doan isn't really the enforcer type. He is viewed as an offensive player, so in that light he was on the ice to score not fight.
If it had been a player like Tkachuk or Shanahan or even Iginla there may have been a case for the fine, as they are also viewed as tough guys/ fighters, as well as scorers.
If it had been Domi, Laraque, Breashear or any other Enforcer the fine and suspension would have been automatic.
Yes,I know what you are saying but I still think the rules should apply to every person and not certain individuals because of their status.Its like earlier in the season when Quinn and Carlyle got fined for critising the NHL but Lemieux got nothing.Favourtism shouldn't exist in any form when running a league,it should be unbiased!The rule is there in black and white and should be enforced imo!
Cheers
charlio lemieux
11-25-05, 3:36 PM
The rule says the player is to have been sent out to fight. ie: no enforcers fighting during the last 5min. That doesn't mean there can't be a fight.
Well it's water under the bridge now. Campbell explained very clearly and satisfactorily why Gretzky did nothing wrong. Charlio basically summed it up. And I agree.
After having a chance to let it all sink in, I don't think Fedoruk's heart was in the wrong place... I Just think he got carried away, which is easy to do in the heat of battle.
I have a real problem with blatant head-hunting or any other type of "hunting" that is intended to injure or even disable. Gauthier's elbow - while yes high at Lupul's head - was nowhere near the potential injury of the Nedved hit IMO.
I'll be tuning in when these teams play next. At the risk of sounding like a broken record... I am very disgusted with Fedoruk's beaming to the media for what he did....... but he's no worse than a lot of others. Domi bragged about his Neidermayer KO, if I remember correctly.
Do what you gotta do but don't act like some hero for blindsiding a guy. Then you're not much better than the Ulf's and the Claud's of the league now are you?
Now then.... if only we could get Sean Avery to take a cheap shot on Lupul.... and both Neidermayers and Selanne while he's at it.... Yes that would be nice. :)
THE HACK
11-25-05, 6:28 PM
After having a chance to let it all sink in, I don't think Fedoruk's heart was in the wrong place... I Just think he got carried away, which is easy to do in the heat of battle.
Domi bragged about his Neidermayer KO, if I remember correctly.
Fedoruk should have just went after Gauthier and beat the crap out of him and that would have been it,all things settled!
As for Domi,his bragging was of his KO to Ulf Samuelson(who was with your Rangers at the time) and not Neidermayer.Domi did say he would get Neidermayer and righfully so but he went about it the wrong way too.He didn't brag about it but did shed some crocodile tears at his feeble press conference on the Neidermayer hit and thats the day I lost respect for Domi.
Cheers
Don Cheezy once again proves what an ignorant jackass he is. Asked about Fedorouk and the crap he did and said, all he had to say was "just like me the guy said it was the visor". :rolleyes: :no: Yeah that's right Shylock Holmes you @#$%ing moron, the visor did it. :thumb:
MadDevil
11-27-05, 1:10 AM
I find it hilarious that anybody would judge a players toughness by whether or not they wear a visor. Anybody who believes there is a connection needs to have their heads examined.:laughing:
KB in Kelowna
11-27-05, 12:48 PM
Oh come on in the old days players didn't wear helmets or visors, they also didn't wear seat belts, drove home after a "few pops", had unprotected sex, didn't train in the off season. Ah when men were men!;) :D
So...
now that the dust has settled what is the result?
Fedoruk returns from his 3 gamer to suit up last night against.... you guessed it, the Phoenix Coyotes.
Lupul, the supposed "victim" from the last meeting of these teams scored a goal in last night's Anaheim victory.
So who was missing? Petr Nedved... still out of the lineup with a concussion he did nothing to deserve. Nice.
(Fedoruk's probably still bragging about how he took a flying dive at a guy's head, who wasn't even looking)
I was sitting on the crapper thinking about the Rangers loss to Vancouver Tuesday night. And I suddenly got very agitated with Todd Fedoruk - AGAIN!
Let's re-live it. Tuesday night, Rangers hosting Vancouver. Ryan Hollweg, a Ranger rookie just trying as hard as he can to stick in the NHL was out on the ice. For those unaware... this kid just runs around hitting, like a robot that is programmed to hit. He's pretty harmless but he gets the crowd and the team pumped up with energetic shifts. Once in a while the other team takes exception.
Any way, he ran Naslund pretty high (Nazzy wasn't hurt but Hollweg did get a minor), so Bertuzzi seeing this, made a bee-line for Hollweg, dropped the gloves and the 5'10" Hollweg didn't/couldn't put up much of a fight, it was over in a few seconds. Bertuzzi absolutely did the right thing. He sent the kid and all the Rangers a message. (He did get the instigator, but this post is not about that call or how much people hate the instigator rule).
Bert sat for while, but his team still won the game, and there were no disciplinary actions necessary after the game... it was strictly business as usual. Nobody was complaining or whining. There was no league review. Bertuzzi did not go beaming to the press after the game about going after Hollweg. It was all good, just a regular game. There will be no payback hype when these teams meet again (whenever the hell that is).
Now I was thinking back to this a$$ wipe joke of a hockey player Todd Fedoruk, and his macho stunt against Nedved. Like Bertuzzi, he saw a high hit taken at one of his skilled teammates... but he goes running after Petr Nedved - a non-physical finesse player who had absolutely nothing to do with the hit on Lupul. He goes diving through the air like superman to take Nedved's head off, and puts him out with a concussion. Nedved was completely blindsided and never even saw Fedoruk coming. Real tough guy he is, that Fedoruk.
But the absolute worst of the worst, lowest scumbag display I've ever heard of... he goes beaming to the press about what he did to Nedved. "Nedved can thank his teammates for what happened tonight".
Can you imagine Fedoruk uttering these words?...
"Lemieux can thank his teammates for what happened tonight"
"Sakic can thank his teammates for what happened tonight"
"Yzerman can thank his teammates for what happened tonight"
"Iginla can thank his teammates for what happened tonight"
No - he'd never have the sack, not even close. He was real proud of himself because he took out a not-so-popular European player.
If he was a piece of s--t on the bottom of my shoes, I wouldn't even wipe it off. I would throw the shoes away. I lied earlier... I was very happy when Eric Cairns fractured his face 4 times in one single fight. I can't wait till the next time it happens. Maybe somebody will remember what he did and head-hunt his sorry reconstructed face.
That's my rant for the evening :coffee:
Mel knows, although I'd have rather seen Bertuzzi (or any Cancuk especially Naslund himself) send a message with a huge hit on the guy next time he touched the puck, rather than a pointless fight against a guy he outwieighs by 60lbs, and a 17 minute penalty to boot.
Man.Utd
12-15-05, 10:28 PM
On the topic of wanting to see player's faces fractured, I wouldn't mind Zdeno Chara just relentlessly punching down Sean Avery at center ice, literally tossing any players / refs who tried to stop him 5 feet through the air. :)
MadDevil
12-15-05, 10:38 PM
On the topic of wanting to see player's faces fractured, I wouldn't mind Zdeno Chara just relentlessly punching down Sean Avery at center ice, literally tossing any players / refs who tried to stop him 5 feet through the air. :)
As long as Chara also takes Roenick out, I'm all for it.:laughing:
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