Toughest Divison in Hockey?

[Newfie John]

This is an active part of another thread, and its taking it offtopic so I'll start this one. Here are the choices.

Atlantic Division:

Pitsburgh
Philly
NYR
NYI
New Jersey

Northeast Divison:

Ottawa
Montreal
Toronto
Buffalo
Ottawa

Southeast Division:

Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida
Carolina
Atlanta

Central Divison:

St. Louis
Nashville
Detroit
Columbus
Chicago

Northwest Division:

Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary
Colarado
Minny

Pacific Division:

Anaheim
Dallas
LA
Phoenix
San Jose

IMO, the toughest division has to be the Northeast. You have Ottawa, arguably the best team in the league in there. Then there is Montreal, who until just recently were ahead of Ottawa in the division. They have the likes of Kovalev, Koivu, Ryder, Zednik, Perezhogin and Theo. The habs have been playing very well even with Theo not playing his best hockey. Then there's the leafs. The leafs could finish 4th in the east, though a more realistic outlook would be 5th-6th. The leafs have the best PP in the league, have a 12-7-2 record. They have the likes of Mats Sundin, Jeff O'niell, Jason Allison, Bryan Mccabe, Tomas Kaberle, Alex Steen and Ed Belfour. Put this team in a different divison and their record is surely going to be higher in the standings.

Next there's Boston. They have a decent team too and could make the playoffs and have Thornton, Murray, Boynton, Leetch, Raycroft and Samsonov. They've been having a tough time with their tough division as 9(iirc) of their losses have come from division rivals.

Then there's Buffalo, the darkhorse. They have a young speedy team and could also make the playoffs.

[Darsehole Tucker]

I don't think this one's even close, the answer is definitely the North Beast Division. I only hope we get to meet your "dark horse" pick sometime in the playoffs NJ ;)

[Newfie John]

I don't think this one's even close, the answer is definitely the North Beast Division. I only hope we get to meet your "dark horse" pick sometime in the playoffs NJ ;)

Better them then the leafs eh? :boogie:

But really I like Buffalo's team and I think they'll nail down a playoff spot. IMO every team in the NE division should make the playoffs.

[TimmyTabasco]

This is an active part of another thread, and its taking it offtopic so I'll start this one.


Actually, it was not. We were discussing the conferences, and charlio's opinions..not the divisions.

IMO, the toughest division has to be the Northeast. .

Ofcourse :thumb:

[Mel]

Forced to pick one I had to go with the Northeast

As of right now, I would rank the divisions like this...

1) Northeast
2) Northwest
3) Pacific
4) Atlantic
5) Southeast
6) Central

I know the central has Detroit and Nashville, but the drop-off from there is too steep to keep them out of last place IMO.

[Madferret]

The Northeast?
There isn't a team in the NE that can beat Ottawa, it's not the NE..

:laughing:

[PDO]

The Northeast?
There isn't a team in the NE that can beat Ottawa, it's not the NE..

:laughing:

:rollover:

Good stuff. Not a team in the league that can beat Ottawa (well.. Carolina :conspire: )

Gotta be the NW.. there's 5 teams there that would be considered a lock for the playoffs in any other division in the league. I'd argue that any of hte teams in the NW can win it (including Minnesota, even though they're struggling right now) and would be the favourite in any other division minus the NE, where Ottawa will run away with it. Boston/Buffalo? Meh. Toronto? Stay out of the box. Montreal? Theodore is doing his best Cloutier impression (kidding Nuckleheads, kidding).

[Newfie John]

The third place leafs in the NE would be tied for first in the NW right now with 26 points. Ottawa and Montreal would both be ahead.

Considering the leafs and habs has to play against Ottawa, and still accomplishing this should be a clear indication which division is tougher.

[PDO]

The third place leafs in the NE would be tied for first in the NW right now with 26 points. Ottawa and Montreal would both be ahead.

Considering the leafs and habs has to play against Ottawa, and still accomplishing this should be a clear indication which division is tougher.

Why? There's no proof that it's any harder to play in the EC than the WC. Most still think the WC is harder to get a win in because there are much less bottom feeders. I'd also take playing against Buffalo/Boston than any combination of any 2 NW division teams every day of the week.

[Newfie John]

I'd much rather play Minny then Boston. Who does Minny have? Gaborik? Who does Boston have? Thornton, Bergeron, Murray, Samsonov, Raycroft, Boynton, etc. Right now 4th in the NW is the Oilers, and the 4th in the NE is Buffalo. But I think Colarado are the 4th worst team in the NW. I'd rather play Colarado. Mainly because Buffalo has always given the leafs hell.

Ottawa>>>Vancouver
Montreal>>Calgary
Leafs>Edmonton
Buffalo=Colarado
Boston>Minny

[Madferret]

I'd much rather play Minny then Boston. Who does Minny have? Gaborik? Who does Boston have? Thornton, Bergeron, Murray, Samsonov, Raycroft, Boynton, etc. Right now 4th in the NW is the Oilers, and the 4th in the NE is Buffalo. But I think Colarado are the 4th worst team in the NW. I'd rather play Colarado. Mainly because Buffalo has always given the leafs hell.

Ottawa>>>Vancouver
Montreal>>Calgary
Leafs>Edmonton
Buffalo=Colarado
Boston>Minny

I think it's more how Minnesota actually play as a team are a good 'team' John. Boston has been crap. Think NY Ranger sydrome. NY always had a good team per say but did it ever amount to anything? Buffalo over Colorado? I think you're just saying that because the Sabres spanked the Leafs.

[PDO]

I'd much rather play Minny then Boston. Who does Minny have? Gaborik? Who does Boston have? Thornton, Bergeron, Murray, Samsonov, Raycroft, Boynton, etc. Right now 4th in the NW is the Oilers, and the 4th in the NE is Buffalo. But I think Colarado are the 4th worst team in the NW. I'd rather play Colarado. Mainly because Buffalo has always given the leafs hell.

Ottawa>>>Vancouver
Montreal>>Calgary
Leafs>Edmonton
Buffalo=Colarado
Boston>Minny

I still think Edmonton is the second best team in the NW (I know I'm biased though.. so I'll be content with what you have there until I'm proven right around X-mas ;] ) but I also think Boston is better than Buffalo.

The thing about Boston is that while they have a franchise center, and a pretty potent offense, they have a crap-tacular defense with a guy who's obviously struggling in net. I was one of the people who said he wasn't sold at all on Raycroft, and for now it appears I'm right. An .883 SV% and 3.56 GAA are two of the worst numbers among starters in the NHL.

Minnesota has two of the best goalies in the league (3rd and 4th in save percentage) along with some special teams that have been great so far this season, for reasons beyond me. I think both Fernandez and Roloson are the #1 and #2 under-rated goalies in the league... pick whichever order you want. There are going to be a lot of teams lined up for Fernandez when he becomes a UFA next year.

Buffalo is in desperate need of Miller to get healthy, some chemistry and some defense.. I think they have potential to be very good, but right now they are not.

For now I do not want to argue that Edmonton is better than Montreal and Calgary better than Toronto, but maybe when I have some more energy..

[Newfie John]

I think it's more how Minnesota actually play as a team are a good 'team' John. Boston has been crap. Think NY Ranger sydrome. NY always had a good team per say but did it ever amount to anything? Buffalo over Colorado? I think you're just saying that because the Sabres spanked the Leafs.

I think Boston is just off to a bad start and playing in such a tough division also handicaps them. This team has played well together before(when they won the division in the last season we played), there's no reason why they won't pick it up again. I believe they will.

I hate Colarado's team. Other then Sakic and Blake and Hejduk(who has a serious injury, iirc), they have no one. Marek Svatos has been doing well but I think Buffalo has the better 'team'. But the individuals on Colarado are better, so I put them equal.

[Newfie John]

For now I do not want to argue that Edmonton is better than Montreal and Calgary better than Toronto, but maybe when I have some more energy..

Please?

[Madferret]

I think Boston is just off to a bad start and playing in such a tough division also handicaps them. This team has played well together before(when they won the division in the last season we played), there's no reason why they won't pick it up again. I believe they will.

I guess we'll just wait and see. They haven't really played well against anyone IMO.

I hate Colarado's team. Other then Sakic and Blake and Hejduk(who has a serious injury, iirc), they have no one. Marek Svatos has been doing well but I think Buffalo has the better 'team'. But the individuals on Colarado are better, so I put them equal.

Coaching John. They have great coaching. Simple thing to look at, who's got better record at this point?

[TimmyTabasco]

I'd much rather play Minny then Boston. Who does Minny have? Gaborik?

You obviously haven't seen Minny play much at all. They play a team game, and anyone can be the hero at anytime.

Minny is a terrible team to play, and can really give you trouble. However, you must respect them..or they will find a way to win

[PDO]

Please?

I will soon enough, don't worry John.. just need to make sure I'm on my game when you start quoting every 3 words and putting in a rebutal :wave:

[Newfie John]

I will soon enough, don't worry John.. just need to make sure I'm on my game when you start quoting every 3 words and putting in a rebutal :wave:

You know how I do..:laughing:

[charlio lemieux]

For now I do not want to argue that Edmonton is better than Montreal and Calgary better than Toronto, but maybe when I have some more energy..

Regardless of who has a better team, if EDM had some of that east coast top level tallent, they would have won last night. Ryan Smyth had two break aways, and a clear blast from the top of the circle. Now as the best forward on the team, it was a perfect example of how the higher individual tallent in the east creates a tougher opponent, because, had Ovetchkin, Thornton, or Crosby been given the same chances, the odds would have been higher for a goal. For no other Reason than the fact they are more skilled players. Please note I only chose last place teams for my example, whereas EDM is not. It is the split second superior playmaking ability on average that is found in the east, even on our last place teams, that makes no lead safe, and creates a tougher conference to win in.
The raised tallent level in the East has only two real reasons:
1. the arms race that has involved NYR, TOR, PHI, OTT, BOS, NJ, and eventually MON, ATL and PIT, bringing in alot of tallent that used to be, in the west when it was stronger. Players like Forsberg, Palffy, Allison and Hasek are only last years crossovers. But it looks like the best Center and Goalie both left the west. Other recent crossovers include Marc Savard and the current Art Ross Trophey winner Martin St. Louis. It isn't that tallent hasn't flowed back the other way, it has, it just hasn't been of the same calibre.
2. The second and main reason for the current power surplus in the east has to do with the lopsided amount of top draft picks the east has received over the last decade. The East got Thornton, the west got Marleau. The East has Kovalchuk, and Spezza. Staal, M.A.Fleury, Luongo, Dipietro. All #1 or 2 overall. The East got Lecavalier and the West got Legwand. The last two years has been even more lopsided with the East recieving Ovetchkin and Malkin two years ago and Crosby last draft.

The East has now become stronger than the West but only after alomst a decade of being the weaker Conference.

[MadDevil]

Whoops, I mean to vote for the Northwest not the Northeast.:doh:

I think the Northeast has more top-end talent than the Northwest, but the Northwest is more balanced throughout. Ottawa is clearly the best of any team from the two divisions, but beyond that, I think the NW has a slight edge. Montreal is about equal to Calgary, Boston I give a very slight edge on Edmonton, Colorado is better than Toronto, and Minnesota is better than Buffalo. The bottom of the Northeast is weaker than the bottom of the Northwest IMO.

[Iced Tea]

First of all, the Northeast must be super tough if Ottawa has two teams.Northeast Divison:

Ottawa
Montreal
Toronto
Buffalo
Ottawa:D
I consider a tough division as being one where most if not all the division teams are in a dogfight for the division title, where each team can win games against their divisional opponents and the points from division wins are fairly evenly spread out.

Ottawa walks all over the rest of the teams in the Northeast while the Northwest has 5 teams capable of beating the other 4 on any given night. 6 points separate the 5 teams in the NW while 11 points separate the 5 teams in the NE.

I pick the NW as the toughest division.

[Yoata]

My teams are in the NW and Central, but I have to say the NE is the toughest right now, even with Boston and Toronto not playing up to potential (though perhaps the habs and maybe the Sabres are playing over their heads right now). NW would be 2nd, but it's not reallly that close right at the moment.

[Newfie John]

First of all, the Northeast must be super tough if Ottawa has two teams.:D
I consider a tough division as being one where most if not all the division teams are in a dogfight for the division title, where each team can win games against their divisional opponents and the points from division wins are fairly evenly spread out.

Ottawa walks all over the rest of the teams in the Northeast while the Northwest has 5 teams capable of beating the other 4 on any given night. 6 points separate the 5 teams in the NW while 11 points separate the 5 teams in the NE.

I pick the NW as the toughest division.

So your logic is, the division which it's easier to win in is the toughest division?

[Amoroq]

Inter-conference play starts in the beginining of December. I'm sure we'll have a better idea as to which division/conference is better by the New Year. :)

[TimmyTabasco]

though perhaps the habs are playing over their heads right now.

You really think so?

The Habs are a solid team. They have a lot of speed, and youth that can play.

Its not surprising they are doing so well in the new NHL. I expect them to finish high-medium in the eastern conference

[Iced Tea]

So your logic is, the division which it's easier to win in is the toughest division?
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I meant that all five teams are capable of defeating the others on any given night. That all the teams have the talent to defeat any of the other four and it's how hard one team works during a game that decides the outcome.

The Sens are way ahead of the other NE teams so how is that division tough for them?

The NW leading Canucks are in a dogfight with the Flames, Avs and Oilers, and the Wild aren't far behind. Any of these teams is capable of beating one of the others on a given night. That makes it tough and certainly makes the NW the toughest division to win.

Edit: I guess I misread the topic of this thread and it is really about what division the other divisions fear playing the most. Frankly I still say the Northwest division. The Canucks, Avs, Flames and Oilers are headed in the right direction and can beat anyone. The Wild is hot and cold right now but you know the goalie tandem can shut down most teams.

As for the Northeast; yes the Sens, Canadiens, and Leafs are doing well right now but they have yet to face the West. I'll wait for interconference play and then either gloat or hang my head in shame at my prediction.

Besides any NE team that gets to play against the Thrashers, Pens and Panthers, shoud be winning easy games and putting up huge numbers. But how can those stats be used for a true comparison? Even I could score a hat trick against the Thrashers. :D

[charlio lemieux]

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I meant that all five teams are capable of defeating the others on any given night. That all the teams have the talent to defeat any of the other four and it's how hard one team works during a game that decides the outcome.

The Sens are way ahead of the other NE teams so how is that division tough for them?

The NW leading Canucks are in a dogfight with the Flames, Avs and Oilers, and the Wild aren't far behind. Any of these teams is capable of beating one of the others on a given night. That makes it tough and certainly makes the NW the toughest division to win.

That sounds like the most Equal division not the Toughest.

I think the fact that eight times a year, you can figure on getting your ass kicked by the most powerful team in the league, is tougher than knowing you have a shot to win every night.

[Newfie John]

That sounds like the most Equal division not the Toughest.

I think the fact that eight times a year, you can figure on getting your ass kicked by the most powerful team in the league, is tougher than knowing you have a shot to win every night.

Agree completely, thats what I'm trying to say.

[TimmyTabasco]

I think the fact that eight times a year, you can figure on getting your ass kicked by the most powerful team in the league

Well, then you let it happen

Ottawa is a beatable team. Just look at Carolina :nod: :thumb:

[Yoata]

You really think so?

The Habs are a solid team. They have a lot of speed, and youth that can play.

Its not surprising they are doing so well in the new NHL. I expect them to finish high-medium in the eastern conference

I do think they are as you said a solid young team, but I don't see them finishing with 2.5+ times as many wins as losses, as the pace they are on now suggests.

[Iced Tea]

That sounds like the most Equal division not the Toughest.

I think the fact that eight times a year, you can figure on getting your ass kicked by the most powerful team in the league, is tougher than knowing you have a shot to win every night.
Right there, you assume the weaker opponent role, why not the stronger opponent? It's no longer tough if you're the Sens.

I guess we have different definitions of tough because being a team that can dominate the other four teams in your division, doesn't sound tough at all, it sounds easy.

Being a team that has four strong opponents in their division and there are no easy wins, that sounds tough to me.

[charlio lemieux]

I'll put Toronto who I feel is third best in the NE, against Vancouver who is first in the NW. Explain to me how Vancouver is so much stronger and better than the Leafs. Please I will give you full credit if you can show me how Vancouver has more depth and tallent, or even better leadership.

[Mel]

Right there, you assume the weaker opponent role, why not the stronger opponent? It's no longer tough if you're the Sens.

I guess we have different definitions of tough because being a team that can dominate the other four teams in your division, doesn't sound tough at all, it sounds easy.

Being a team that has four strong opponents in their division and there are no easy wins, that sounds tough to me.
Toughest division....

the strongest division in the NHL from top to bottom? or the most balanced division where no one team dominates. Big difference.

And in no way does most balanced = toughest. At least in the way that this question was originally posted.

If I was to pick a division and I had to play one game against each team. The Northeast would be the division I would least prefer to face, hands down.

[TimmyTabasco]

I'll put Toronto who I feel is third best in the NE, against Vancouver who is first in the NW. Explain to me how Vancouver is so much stronger and better than the Leafs. Please I will give you full credit if you can show me how Vancouver has more depth and tallent, or even better leadership.

:rollover: :hammer2:

At a loss for words

[Iced Tea]

I'll put Toronto who I feel is third best in the NE, against Vancouver who is first in the NW. Explain to me how Vancouver is so much stronger and better than the Leafs. Please I will give you full credit if you can show me how Vancouver has more depth and tallent, or even better leadership.
Again, I must not be following the changing thread topic. My thought during my last post was toughest division to play in, meaning playing the other 4 teams in the division.

If it is division no one wants to play against, I think it's a tie between the NE and NW. The Sens, Habs and Leafs are tough, Bruins suck right now and the Sabres I don't know anything about. The Avs and Flames are no picnic, the Canucks are up and down but still winning, the Oilers are improving and the Wild find ways to beat the best teams in the league.

Also, if the Canucks got to play the crappy Thrashers, Pens and Panthers, the Canucks would have padded stats as well.

As for depth, pfft, any team that dresses Aki Berg, can't have too much depth. :laughing:

[charlio lemieux]

:rollover: :hammer2:

At a loss for words

Show me! Prove me Wrong!

Do you have better goaltending?
Better Center Depth?
More Offense?
Better Defense?

I have often placed Van above Tor in depth charts, but are they really?
What is it about Vancouver that makes them better than the Leafs?

[charlio lemieux]

Also, if the Canucks got to play the crappy Thrashers, Pens and Panthers, the Canucks would have padded stats as well.

As for depth, pfft, any team that dresses Aki Berg, can't have too much depth. :laughing:

You try and score on Luongo. The west has Anaheim, Chicago, StLouis, and Columbus. So your padded stat theory is bust.

As for Berg, if it wasn't for cap and Waiver issues, one of the two NHL ready D-men off the farm would be in. Brookbank, and Mcarthy are a far cry from what Van used to have.

The realtionship to the thread topic is this: If the third place team in the NE cannot be out classed by the first place team in the NW, then there is no way the NW can be tougher.

[Iced Tea]

You try and score on Luongo. The west has Anaheim, Chicago, StLouis, and Columbus. So your padded stat theory is bust.

As for Berg, if it wasn't for cap and Waiver issues, one of the two NHL ready D-men off the farm would be in. Brookbank, and Mcarthy are a far cry from what Van used to have.

The relationship to the thread topic is this: If the third place team in the NE cannot be out classed by the first place team in the NW, then there is no way the NW can be tougher.
According to the stats, Luongo isn't doing so good so far this season, letting in 2.91 goals per game. He's 20th in GAA but 1st in Shots Against, his defense sucks and the Panthers are lousy right now. Luongo isn't as great as you say.

As for Berg and cap and waiver issues, I could say the same thing about the Canucks and their farm team. Nonis is going with the hand he was dealt and things seem to be working out except for games when Brookbank is dressed.

Quite frankly, until head to head action occurs, we won't really know who is better. We can bring up all the stats we want but right now it's the same as MLB, until crossover occurs, the arguments presented here are moot. Unless the Leafs play the Oilers, Flames, Avs and Wild 8 times, any comparison is unbalanced.

I can't wait for the Canucks, Avs or Red Wings versus the Sens. Should be awesome hockey.

[PDO]

Show me! Prove me Wrong!

Do you have better goaltending?
Better Center Depth?
More Offense?
Better Defense?

I have often placed Van above Tor in depth charts, but are they really?
What is it about Vancouver that makes them better than the Leafs?

Pst, sauceboy, just say a lot of names. Here, like this..

Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Sedin, Sedin, Ohlund, Jovo.. LOOK AT THAT FIRE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111 111111111

Edit: Scoring on Luongo = hard. Scoring on the panthers = easy. Draw your own conclusions.

[Man.Utd]

With Ottawa not only representing themselves, but now replacing Boston in the North East also this choice is very clear. :D

Northeast Divison:

Ottawa
Montreal
Toronto
Buffalo
Ottawa

Edit -Tea beat me to it.

[charlio lemieux]

Pst, sauceboy, just say a lot of names. Here, like this..

Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Sedin, Sedin, Ohlund, Jovo.. LOOK AT THAT FIRE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111111 111111111

Edit: Scoring on Luongo = hard. Scoring on the panthers = easy. Draw your own conclusions.

Grow up PDO! You're supposed to be a MOD.
Whenever you can't bring facts to the table, you start making fun of people.

Anybody, go ahead and evaluate the two teams player by player and show me where Vancouver is so much stronger than Toronto?

As for scoring on the Panthers being easy: FLORIDA HAS LET IN FEWER GOALS THAN EDMONTON. 64-68.

[Newfie John]

Vancouver vs Toronto.

Offense- Toronto is better.

Defence- Canucks

Goaltending - Leafs

[charlio lemieux]

Vancouver vs Toronto.

Offense- Toronto is better.

Defence- Canucks

Goaltending - Leafs

I was hoping for more specifics. :shrug: :thumb:

[Newfie John]

I was hoping for more specifics. :shrug: :thumb:

Vancouver VS Toronto.

Offense:

Leafs GF- 78 Vancouvers GF- 70

The leafs have been without Mats Sundin for most of the year thus far. Sundin is without doubt the best offensive player on the leaf squad. The leafs have the best PP in the league scoring once every 4 powerplays roughly.

Leafs PP- 1st in League- 24.4% Canucks PP- 19th in League- 17.3%

Leafs Leading Scorer- Bryan Mccabe-30 pts
Canucks Leading Scorer- Markus Naslund(surprise surprise)- 26 pts.

Clear advantage has to go to the leafs.

Defence

Bryan Mccabe>Ed Jovanovski
Tomas Kaberle= Mattias Ohlund
Sami Salo> Ken Klee
Nolan Baugmarter>Alex Khavanov
Bryan Allen>Aki Berg
Steve Mccarthy>Staffan Kronvall(for now).

Individually, Vancouver has a better D then Toronto.

Vancouvers GA- 61 Toronto's GA- 71

Vancouvers PK- League rank 19th Leafs PK - League rank- 14th

Although leafs PK has been better, all things considered defensively the edge has to go to Vancouver.

Advantage has to go to Vancouver.

Goaltending

I'm lazy.. but its safe to say that Belfour is better then Cloutier.

Advantage Toronto.

[Iced Tea]

I'll say it again, until the Canucks and Leafs play the same teams on a regular basis, there is no fair comparison.

[Newfie John]

I'll say it again, until the Canucks and Leafs play the same teams on a regular basis, there is no fair comparison.

Well, the leafs are in a tougher division. So Toronto is doing these things playing tougher teams.

[charlio lemieux]

Well, the leafs are in a tougher division. So Toronto is doing these things playing tougher teams.

Hold on NJ we're using this comparison, to try and prove the Divisional thing.

[Iced Tea]

Well, the leafs are in a tougher division. So Toronto is doing these things playing tougher teams.Who's to say the Leafs are in a tougher division?

The Sens and Habs are tough but Boston and Buffalo suck. The Canucks face the Avs, Flames and Wild. The Oilers will kick it into gear before the next meeting with the Canucks. That's 2 tough opponents to 3.

The Leafs also get to play crappy teams like the Thrashers, Pens, Panthers and Caps so how is that tough? The Canucks have faced the BJ, Ducks and Blackhawks (who are improving quickly thanks to Khabibulin's improved play). Haven't seen the lowly Blues yet this season.

Like I keep saying, compare after face to face meetings.

[Newfie John]

Boston and Buffalo suck... well..lol.. wasn't expecting that one. This Boston team + Brian Leetch(now injured though) won the Northeast last season.

Buffalo doesn't suck. They could make the playoffs in the 7th to 8th spot.

[Iced Tea]

Boston and Buffalo suck... well..lol.. wasn't expecting that one. This Boston team + Brian Leetch(now injured though) won the Northeast last season.

Buffalo doesn't suck. They could make the playoffs in the 7th to 8th spot.If we're arguing with the current stats, what a team did last season shouldn't matter. Look at the current standing and stats and tell me Boston isn't sucking right now. 1 - 8 - 1 vs NE teams, a 6 game losing skid and 2 - 5 - 3 in their last 10 games, sounds like they're a real tough opponent. :rolleyes:

As for Buffalo, the only divisional teams they can beat are the lousy Bruins and the Leafs.

[TimmyTabasco]

John,

Yeah..Vancouver does have a better defense than Toronto. However Kaberle is not even to Ohlund. Ask any GM around the league who they would prefer..Ohlund..or Kaberle?

For offense..a total of 8 goals more than Vancouver..and Toronto has a superior offense? Come on man. The Canucks have been struggling, but yet still have 70 goals for. Not bad.

The Canucks offense

-Bertuzzi
Struggling. But when on his game, is the best in the game at his job

-Naslund
He is an elite LW sniper

-Morrison
Alright top 6 forward, who produces good point totals

-Hank Sedin, and Danny Sedin
Totally underrated forwards. These guys are very good players.

-Park
Laugh all you will, but he is a decent contributor with speed to kill

-Cooke
He can play on the top line, or the 3rd.

When the Canucks offense is on its game, it blows Toronto out of the water..

Goaltending?

Belfour is better, ofcourse. However Cloutier isn't as bad as many make him out to be. He is the only recent goaltender, other than Brodeur, to record 3 straight 30 plus win seasons

[Newfie John]

Timmy, we're outscoring you and we were without Sundin for how long? Take Naslund away from the Canucks and what do you have?

[charlio lemieux]

Naslund - - Sundin
Bertuzzi - - Oniell
Morrison - - Allison
Sedin -- - - Lindros
Sedin -- - - Steen
Park -- - -Tucker
Cooke -- -- Stajan

I am not commenting on who is better or not, I just want to find out where Vancouver has this huge advantage over Toronto. As I mentioned before, I have consistantly ranked Vanvouver higher than Toronto in the past, but I don't see the glaring advantage this year. The Sub-par performance of big Bert only re-inforces this nagging thought.

Yeah..Vancouver does have a better defense than Toronto. However Kaberle is not even to Ohlund. Ask any GM around the league who they would prefer..Ohlund..or Kaberle?


For the Record: Kaberle is out scoring Ohlund 17-8 this season. Both are +4.

[TimmyTabasco]

Timmy, we're outscoring you and we were without Sundin for how long? Take Naslund away from the Canucks and what do you have?

John,

As I said..I know your outscoring Vancouver.

However, is Bertuzzi the same guy as he was? Not at the moment. Is Naslund playing the same way? No he is not.

These two are huge pieces of the Vancouver offense. If they aren't clicking, ofcourse our offense will be affected

[TimmyTabasco]

I am not commenting on who is better or not, I just want to find out where Vancouver has this huge advantage over Toronto. As I mentioned before, I have consistantly ranked Vanvouver higher than Toronto in the past, but I don't see the glaring advantage this year. The Sub-par performance of big Bert only re-inforces this nagging thought.


Vancouver has played a high octane game for years. As I pointed out, they have all been underperforming..minus the twins. When Vancouver's offense is on its game...they score ALOT. We all know that.


For the Record: Kaberle is out scoring Ohlund 17-8 this season. Both are +4.

Yeah, I see that. However, overall..who would a GM pick? Kaberle is having a great year, and good for him. However, Ohlund is a rock..and has been improving each and every year. Ohlund is the Canucks most valuable defenseman. He plays in all situations..can the same be said of Kaberle?

[charlio lemieux]

Vancouver has played a high octane game for years. As I pointed out, they have all been underperforming..minus the twins. When Vancouver's offense is on its game...they score ALOT. We all know that.



Yeah, I see that. However, overall..who would a GM pick? Kaberle is having a great year, and good for him. However, Ohlund is a rock..and has been improving each and every year. Ohlund is the Canucks most valuable defenseman. He plays in all situations..can the same be said of Kaberle?

Over the last five years, Kaberle has played 57 more games, scored one less goal, recorded 56 more assists, and is a +33 better, than Ohlund.
Hey I was as surprised as anyone but the Numbers are there.

[Newfie John]

Vancouver has played a high octane game for years. As I pointed out, they have all been underperforming..minus the twins. When Vancouver's offense is on its game...they score ALOT. We all know that.



Yeah, I see that. However, overall..who would a GM pick? Kaberle is having a great year, and good for him. However, Ohlund is a rock..and has been improving each and every year. Ohlund is the Canucks most valuable defenseman. He plays in all situations..can the same be said of Kaberle?

Yeah, you can say the same about Kaberle. He's what, 3rd in the league in ice time? Kaberle is out there in every situation. He's there to start the game, he's on the PP(usually the whole 2 mins), he's out there on the PK, and he's out there when the game is on the line.

[MadDevil]

Not that this really means anything, but the Pacific is the only division where all 5 teams have a winning record right now. Who'd have thought it?

[Man.Utd]

As the season has wore on I've changed my tune. North West > North East now IMO. Boston and Toronto are simply average and can't be considered locks for the playoffs. Montreal has cooled off and although Buffalo is red-hot I'm skeptical if it can continue. Ottawa is in a slump though it's also direcetly gone along with their roughest injury period and I expect we'll break out of that soon.

The North West has 3 quality clubs with their Canadian content of Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton (Hot hot hot! But like buffalo I think they'll cool down from their current pace). Colorado is your answer to the Leafs, but Minny > Boston.

Close, but edge to the Western boys for me. The Thornton trade, along with Montreal's decline is what really sealed it for me. Buffalo may compensate for the Habs fall for some, but not I. I think they're just on a tear right now and will crash back down to Earth soon.

[PDO]

As the season has wore on I've changed my tune. North West > North East now IMO. Boston and Toronto are simply average and can't be considered locks for the playoffs. Montreal has cooled off and although Buffalo is red-hot I'm skeptical if it can continue. Ottawa is in a slump though it's also direcetly gone along with their roughest injury period and I expect we'll break out of that soon.

The North West has 3 quality clubs with their Canadian content of Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton (Hot hot hot! But like buffalo I think they'll cool down from their current pace). Colorado is your answer to the Leafs, but Minny > Boston.

Close, but edge to the Western boys for me. The Thornton trade, along with Montreal's decline is what really sealed it for me. Buffalo may compensate for the Habs fall for some, but not I. I think they're just on a tear right now and will crash back down to Earth soon.

Agreed on all points, really. Obviously the Oilers are playing unbelievable right now (8-0-3 in their last 11! Hottest team in hockey right now), and I agree they're playing better than they are.. but it's not like any team is consistently having a 86.3 winning percent ;).

I think it also speaks volumes that Ottawa comes to the NW division and goes 1-0-2. There are just no free points in this division right now, and you'll very likely see 1/2 of the WC playoffs come from this team. I'd go as far to argue that Detroit, Nashville, Dallas and LA would all very possibily finish last in this division, if they were in Minnesota's position. I truly feel the 3 best teams in the WC are all in the NW division, and coincidently are all Canadian. Detroit may be in first place in the WC, but look how much they've beaten up on Columbus and Chicago. Same goes for Nashville. In the pacific, you got to play the Thornton-less Sharks for a while, along with the defenseless ducks. The NE isn't a weak sister by any means, but it doesn't have the 3 best teams in the confrence.

[Amoroq]

Personally I thinks really hard to pin point which division/conference is better. They hardly play each other now in this new format that each team has to rely only on scouting when they do face each other. In their own divisions/confereces they play one another so much that each team has picked up on each others little ideosyncricies that we all have and are more able to adapt. Except for Ottawa in the east and Detriot in the west, its tight the rest of the way down, and IMO this is because each team knows how to play each other simply because they've played so often.

[PDO]

Mathematically proven.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nhl0506.htm

1. NW
2. Pacific
3. NE
4. Atlantic
5. SE
6. Central

:boogie:

[MadDevil]

Mathematically proven.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nhl0506.htm

1. NW
2. Pacific
3. NE
4. Atlantic
5. SE
6. Central

:boogie:

Which just means it will be harder for the Oilers to make the playoffs.:D

[PDO]

Which just means it will be harder for the Oilers to make the playoffs.:D

Isn't new news to me. It also means if we meet up with Detroit or Nashville in the playoffs, I'll be very happy.

[KB in Kelowna]

Have to say the Northwest, but I am biased.