View Full Version : Yzerman not liking new rules
Iced Tea
11-19-05, 5:28 PM
Sportsnet.ca (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20051119_132901_4500) says
Rules draw Yzerman's ire
Rarely one to criticze anything outside of the Wings' performance, Steve Yzerman has seen enough of the new NHL after 13 games.
Sportsnet.ca -- Steve Yzerman has run the gamut on rule changes during his 20-plus season in the NHL, but he feels the current incarnation of the game is simply "not hockey".
"Everybody keeps saying this is great. It's not great," Yzerman told the Detroit Free Press. "It's not hockey."
The parade to the penalty box has drawn Yzerman's ire, and the veteran would like to see better judgement used when officials assess whether a penalty needs to be called.
"Good referees used to have good judgment. Now they've taken that out of the game. I'm not saying I'm blaming the referees for it, I just feel the whole thing has to be adjusted and they have to look at this seriously. They can't continue to call irrelevant things that have no business being called."
Yzerman's teammate, Brendan Shanahan, is a member of the competition committee assembled to make sure the rule changes are opening up the game, and eliminating the clutch and grab style which made body checking obsolete. Shanahan has not made any recent comments on the changes, but in October went on record saying the new NHL is designed to eliminate the practice of just putting a 'stick on a guy' to slow down his progress.
The Wings lost an overtime game to the Edmonton Oilers on Thursday, and take on the struggling St. Louis Blues Saturday night at home.
Yzerman has a point about refs having no discretion but I'd rather see everything called and players smarten up then see players figure out ways to hook and grab without being penalized. Maybe Yzerman is sore because he's unable to function in the new NHL.
Besides, why is Yzerman spouting off like Brett Hull when he should be bending the ear of teammate Brendan Shanahan, a member of the CC.
Max Power
11-21-05, 1:11 PM
Maybe Yzerman is sore because he's unable to function in the new NHL.
Bingo =]
Yzerman is an injury riddled vet who hasn?t done well in the new NHL
Not taking anything away from him but me think he's a little more upset he's not doing well
Inconsistent officiating or not I think he's a little bitter
Steve rarely steps outside of his shell, when he talks I listen. Something tells me this has nothing to do with a vet player who is on the downside of a very fruitful career.
I agree with him wholeheartedly.
Steve rarely steps outside of his shell, when he talks I listen. Something tells me this has nothing to do with a vet player who is on the downside of a very fruitful career.
I agree with him wholeheartedly.
Rusty knows. A damn garbage hockey league is what this "new NHL" has become with the constant bs calls, and Yzerman's one of the few with the guts to say so.
I'd really like to know how people think the "new NHL" has hurt Yzerman's game??? He's never been a clutch and grabber, he's a finesse player, and while he's definitely slowed down, it's not the new rules that've caused it, it's father time, injuries, and the lack of playing since he went out with a severe eye injury last season. But his game is coming around, he'll be fine, and if he's not, he'll take himself out of the game, anybody who thinks Yzerman would say this or anything for his own benefit, doesn't have a clue what Steve Yzerman is all about. He cares about the game itself, not just gimicky quick "thrills" that let Bettman and his cronies sell(out) the game, and sadly he seems to be one of the few.
If anything the new "rules" should help him in the long run not having to deal with the clutching and grabbing should free him up supposedly if you listen to what everyone has been saying about the so-called new NHL.
MadDevil
11-21-05, 2:01 PM
The only way the NHL is truly going to thrive is by creative, flowing, 5-on-5 hockey, and that doesn't exist in the new NHL. I know the theory is that if you call everything early, the players will adjust, and the 5-on-5 hockey will return. The problem is, the players don't know what's getting called from game to game, or even period to period.
When Steve Yzerman, a guy who knows a thing or two about the game of hockey, starts saying things like this, I think the league should listen. I happen to agree with him.
I only hope that they do not fine him for comments detrimental to hockey, that would be a shame.
Max Power
11-21-05, 2:04 PM
Officiating was inconsistent prior to the new rules and now it?s inconsistent with the new rules
Nothing has changed other then the amount of inconsistency because there are more calls now.
I respect Yzerman and think he?s one of the all-time best captains but for him to say it?s not hockey tells me he?s taking these changes and his adoption to them hard. I don?t care how great he is because after all he?s still human.
The one thing I do know is hockey is much more entertaining now then it was 2 years ago.
Max Power
11-21-05, 2:07 PM
Why doesn?t everyone take a time out from misinterpreting or rewording?
Yzerman is getting old and is not as good as he used to be? That?s all I was suggesting
Max Power
11-21-05, 2:19 PM
Another thing
To suggest Yzerman should be thriving and doing better then before because the new system is not considering the following
His age
The fact he had major reconstructive surgery on his knee
Other injuries
His age
Mario is a better player then Yzerman and has some pretty good supporting cast and he only has 20 points. Why? Because he's forty not because officiating
To suggest Yzerman is having a hard time because inconsistent officiating is bogus
Officiating was inconsistent prior to the new rules and now it?s inconsistent with the new rules
Nothing has changed other then the amount of inconsistency because there are more calls now.
I respect Yzerman and think he?s one of the all-time best captains but for him to say it?s not hockey tells me he?s taking these changes and his adoption to them hard. I don?t care how great he is because after all he?s still human.
The one thing I do know is hockey is much more entertaining now then it was 2 years ago.
Inconsistency is only part of the problem, the other part is the ridiculous calls themselves. I don't know what games you've been watching, but I've seen so many calls that wouldn't and shouldn't be called in an all-girl, under-9, Swiss elementary school intramural game that it's sickening, and THAT is what Yzerman is saying is not hockey.
He's a warrior, and he knows that the game at the NHL level (and really anything higher than peewee tier2 house level) is, and should be a battle. It always has been, even in the high-flying 80s you didn't get a free pass where a guy couldn't even look sideways at you let alone touch you without getting a penalty. Did they need to do something about the obstruction? Absolutely, and they did, and players have adjusted, anybody who's watched the "scared" and confused way they're all playing right now can see that there is little/no obstruction of any kind, and that's good. What isn't good, what is brutal, and ugly, is that the refs have not adjusted, they have stepped up their vigilance (to the point where one has to become suspicious that there's some sort of penalty quota at play here) and are now making constant and ridiculous phantom calls that have turned the game into a total sham.
If you think a no-touch, all-star game brand of hockey is "more entertaining" because of more scoring chances and more scoring, then great, I do to, but not to the point where the hard-fought, physical side of the game is outlawed to where a guy can't even burp near somebody unless he excuses himself and immediately eats a breath mint. There's nothing entertaining about that, it's a farcical shadow of what once was called NHL hockey.
Another thing
To suggest Yzerman should be thriving and doing better then before because the new system is not considering the following
His age
The fact he had major reconstructive surgery on his knee
Other injuries
His age
Mario is a better player then Yzerman and has some pretty good supporting cast and he only has 20 points. Why? Because he's forty not because officiating
To suggest Yzerman is having a hard time because inconsistent officiating is bogus
Uh, you were the one who was suggesting that. :conspire:
I don't see what he's griping about. Detroit has the #2 PP in the league and the #5 kill. Detroit sits right in the middle of the pack of total times short-handed. So they're not getting hurt by changes in officiating in any way.
Yzerman himiself has gotten whistled for 8 minutes all season.
I find it really odd that a guy who never makes a splash would start mouthing off to the media all the sudden, especially when he's really got no beef.
Max Power
11-21-05, 2:40 PM
Uh, you were the one who was suggesting that. :conspire:
This is what I said
Yzerman is an injury riddled vet who hasn’t done well in the new NHL
Not taking anything away from him but me think he's a little more upset he's not doing well
Inconsistent officiating or not I think he's a little bitter
Meaning Yzerman is old and not doing well because of it (age) so he's taking it out on the "New NHL"... 40 year old men go through mid life crises too =]
But Yes I somewhat agree with what you said above but I don't think it's time to scream bloody murder. Hopefully the refs will adjust so at least their inconsistencies are consistent like in the old NHL but I still think it needs time. Teams need to complain but in my opinion not to the media yet and not in that fashion. I think the Yzerman thing as much as there is some truth in it is coming from a guy who’s age and skill has caught up to him and he’s not ready to admit it.
I don't see what he's griping about. Detroit has the #2 PP in the league and the #5 kill. Detroit sits right in the middle of the pack of total times short-handed. So they're not getting hurt by changes in officiating in any way.
Yzerman himiself has gotten whistled for 8 minutes all season.
I find it really odd that a guy who never makes a splash would start mouthing off to the media all the sudden, especially when he's really got no beef.
See that's just it, he's not talking about himself or Detroit, he's talking about the game itself, that it's not hockey anymore, he cares about the game, that's his beef, and he's 100% right.
This is what I said
Yzerman is an injury riddled vet who hasn’t done well in the new NHL
That looks like at the very least a strong suggestion that he's had difficulty adjusting to the new game.
Not taking anything away from him but me think he's a little more upset he's not doing well
Inconsistent officiating or not I think he's a little bitter
Meaning Yzerman is old and not doing well because of it (age) so he's taking it out on the "New NHL" 40 year old men go through mid life crises too =]
But as Mel said, the team's done fine and then some, and that's always his biggest concern, and again, what in the new NHL has hurt him? There's nothing for him personally to take out on the new NHL about, and therefore it's obvious he's not, he cares about the game itself, that's his beef, and it's very legit.
But Yes I somewhat agree with what you said above but I don't think it's time to scream bloody murder. Hopefully the refs will adjust so at least their inconsistencies are consistent like in the old NHL but I still think it needs time. Teams need to complain but in my opinion not to the media yet and not in that fashion. I think the Yzerman thing as much as there is some truth in it is coming from a guy who’s age and skill has caught up to him and he’s not ready to admit it.
Again, that just shows your lack of knowledge for who Steve Yzerman is. If he doesn't think he can play anymore, you can bet your life that he'll take himself out of the game, without fanfair. To suggest that he's saying this stuff for his own benefit is so contrary to the egoless, humble, and self-sacrificing person that Steve Yzerman is, that it's insulting. If he thought the game was better off, he'd say so, he obviously doesn't, and for good reason.
See that's just it, he's not talking about himself or Detroit, he's talking about the game itself, that it's not hockey anymore, he cares about the game, that's his beef, and he's 100% right.
Well that's your interpretation of his motives.
Yzerman did make these comments at the conclusion of an overtime loss, in which he was admitedly angry about a penalty called on Mathieu Schneider in that game. Then he just extended his comments to encompass the entire NHL. He didn't just suddenly decide to hold court and voice these concerns for the good of the league. He was complaining about the game they just lost.
Well that's your interpretation of his motives.
Yzerman did make these comments at the conclusion of an overtime loss, in which he was admitedly angry about a penalty called on Mathieu Schneider in that game. Then he just extended his comments to encompass the entire NHL. He didn't just suddenly decide to hold court and voice these concerns for the good of the league. He was complaining about the game they just lost.
Damn right that's my interpretation, because that's who Steve Yzermann is, and when he said it doesn't change the fact that he's bang-on.
Also, I see nothing here http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20051119_132901_4500 about any specific calls, involviing Schneider or anyone else.
What he did say, in very general terms was:
"They can't continue to call irrelevant things that have no business being called."
And about that he is 1,000% correct.
Max Power
11-21-05, 3:00 PM
The best of men are still capable of emotional outburst Yota? As for reasons Mel pointed out and what I was pointing out.
As far as my posts I think I was fairly clear considering the point is Yzerman is not doing well in the new NHL because his age. Either way who cares, no need to argue it.
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 3:10 PM
When are the players going to get it in their heads that you can't touch another player with your stick. It's a pretty simple rule and yet 700 grown men cannot grasp the concept. The onus is on the players this time. The players all agreed it was up to them to make the new rules work. They promised to change, to cut back on the hooking, clutching and grabbing, and yet the constant parade to the penalty box proves that the players aren't listening to themselves.
One of the worst in the League is good ol' Antropov. He smacked the other player about 6 or 7 times in that old water ski/ hold 'em up kind of way, on ONE RUSH.
If the stick makes contact with the player without touching the the stick or puck it's a penatly. The players promised to adapt and they haven't.
Stevie's points are valid about penalty parade, but it's not the referee's fault. They all failed the same Eye Exam, they did two years ago.
Steve really can't blame the rules, because his good buddy Shanahan had a big part in creating them. And he can't call out every player in the league to smarten up, because he'll get railroaded, or run over. The only place he could point to was the officiating. He recognised a problem and made sure it got brought to the forefront. As per League rules he should be fined, because we can't play favorites, but it had to be said.
On a side note: Even with the high number of penaties being called this year, I have seen lots of 3,4,or 5, minute chunks of whistle free hockey. During these periods the hockey is faster and more entertaining, than the old icing, offside and puck over the glass filled game of old.
Also, I see nothing here http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20051119_132901_4500 about any specific calls, involviing Schneider or anyone else.
Here's just a few off a google search
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1328963
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=143654&hubname=nhl
"I'll just use Mathieu Schneider's penalty as an example. He steps up and takes his guy out, and his stick gets caught and the crowd cheers so the referee puts his hand up. There has to be some discretion. The referees have to use some judgment on what is a penalty and what is not. They've taken judgment out of it and I think it's somewhat made it easy on the referees just to call anything, because there is no judgment.
Sounds to me like if the Schneider penalty was not called and Detroit won the game... we might not have heard anything from Steve.
Don't take it the wrong way, I think highly of Yzerman. But I do think his statements here were over-generalizations. I watched a lot of hockey this weekend and the officiating for the most part was not a factor, which is the way it should be.
There are teams like the Rangers who are having a real hard time staying out of the box this season, and they are a finesse team more than anything this year... but I don't read about them complaining to the media. I think Steve was just frustrated and blowing off some steam. Doesn't make him a bad guy.
When are the players going to get it in their heads that you can't touch another player with your stick. It's a pretty simple rule and yet 700 grown men cannot grasp the concept. The onus is on the players this time. The players all agreed it was up to them to make the new rules work. They promised to change, to cut back on the hooking, clutching and grabbing, and yet the constant parade to the penalty box proves that the players aren't listening to themselves.
One of the worst in the League is good ol' Antropov. He smacked the other player about 6 or 7 times in that old water ski/ hold 'em up kind of way, on ONE RUSH.
If the stick makes contact with the player without touching the the stick or puck it's a penatly. The players promised to adapt and they haven't.
Stevie's points are valid about penalty parade, but it's not the referee's fault. They all failed the same Eye Exam, they did two years ago.
Steve really can't blame the rules, because his good buddy Shanahan had a big part in creating them. And he can't call out every player in the league to smarten up, because he'll get railroaded, or run over. The only place he could point to was the officiating. He recognised a problem and made sure it got brought to the forefront. As per League rules he should be fined, because we can't play favorites, but it had to be said.
On a side note: Even with the high number of penaties being called this year, I have seen lots of 3,4,or 5, minute chunks of whistle free hockey. During these periods the hockey is faster and more entertaining, than the old icing, offside and puck over the glass filled game of old.
Hang on, first you say they haven't adjusted, then you say the 5-5 hockey you see is way better???
It's VERY obvious to me that they have indeed adjusted, to the point where they are scared to even touch a guy, and yet the parade continues, because of absolute garbage penalty calls, many of them where no infraction of any kind has taken place, and still the calls, and therein lies the problem.
Here's just a few off a google search
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1328963
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=143654&hubname=nhl
Sounds to me like if the Schneider penalty was not called and Detroit won the game... we might not have heard anything from Steve.
Don't take it the wrong way, I think highly of Yzerman. But I do think his statements here were over-generalizations. I watched a lot of hockey this weekend and the officiating for the most part was not a factor, which is the way it should be.
There are teams like the Rangers who are having a real hard time staying out of the box this season, and they are a finesse team more than anything this year... but I don't read about them complaining to the media. I think Steve was just frustrated and blowing off some steam. Doesn't make him a bad guy.
ok so he cited an example, and did say it was just an example, not specifically what his problem is, and it still isn't as though that was his problem and then he went on to make it about the whole league as you had claimed.
Regardless, as I said, when he said it doesn't change that he was 100% bang-on. As I said I don't know what games you were watching but the commentators for both the leaf and Canucks games both expressed thorough confusion with regard to numerous calls that went their teams' way, and that's coming from as big of homers as the sports broadcasting world knows, especially in the case of kneel & bob.
So I guess it's just a coincidence that the first time I can ever remember Yzerman complaining about reffing to the media is during this "new NHL"???
Wonder why he never just got "frustrated" and "spouted off" before?
Maybe because #1, that's not his style, and #2, he has legitimate concerns about the game.
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 3:29 PM
Hang on, first you say they haven't adjusted, then you say the 5-5 hockey you see is way better???
It's VERY obvious to me that they have indeed adjusted, to the point where they are scared to even touch a guy, and yet the parade continues, because of absolute garbage penalty calls, many of them where no infraction of any kind has taken place, and still the calls, and therein lies the problem.
15 or 20 minutes of great hockey still doesn't make a game.
15 or 20 minutes of great hockey still doesn't make a game.
15 or 20 minutes? Hell you're lucky to get that much 5-5 in a whole game these days, that's part of what makes it such a joke. 5-5 scoring is practically non-existent.
Bettman as basically turned the whole game into the ot, it's either 4-4, 5-4, or most obvious of all, a retarde amount of 5-3 and even 4-3s.
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 3:39 PM
That's the whole point. The little 5-on-5 we get is much better than it used to be, and if there where only ten penalties total, instead of ten a piece you would see a much better product. The rules work, the players haven't adjusted.
Max Power
11-21-05, 3:46 PM
I've seen nothing but entertaining Hockey and plenty of good 5 on 5.
Officiating has been suspect but like I said before it was suspect before and now it's even more because there is more to call =]
Even after that things tend to even out like it did before and the better teams find a way to win as they did before. The only thing now is that you rarely see a boring/bad game unless you're team is sucking it up
That's the whole point. The little 5-on-5 we get is much better than it used to be, and if there where only ten penalties total, instead of ten a piece you would see a much better product. The rules work, the players haven't adjusted.
Again, disagree, don't know how anybody can say the players haven't adjusted, FCS they're scared to even look at another guy sideways for fear of a penalty. Again, why is it the 5-5 better if there's been no adjustment?
The only thing now is that you rarely see a boring/bad game unless you're team is sucking it up
Totally wrong, I'm a Canucks fan, they won against the Ducks, and that was by far the worst example of what I'm talking about, absolutely ridiculous phantom calls both ways and without a doubt the worst game of hockey I've watched in my life at a level higher than junior B, and trust me, I've watched a pile of hockey at every level.
Increased offense or not, garbage penalty calls do not make for good hockey.
it's either 4-4, 5-4, or most obvious of all, a retarde amount of 5-3 and even 4-3s.
I agree with that. It seems 4 on 4 play has increased this season. And 5/4 on 3 play is clearly up. You see it every game now.
For the most part, I'm still liking the action though. Hey it's better than the 04-05 season was
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 4:01 PM
Maybe in the west it's different. I've seen plenty of times where a player puts his stick out, then suddenly remembers, and doesn't hook. Overall there are too many penalties but when the players are following the rules and not taking dumb penalties the flow and pace is much better than it used to be.
To no one in particular:
Why it is that everything is so One-Sided with people. " If it's this then it can't be that." News flash! Yes it can be a little one thing and some of another. The refusal to see both sides is laughable.
Maybe in the west it's different. I've seen plenty of times where a player puts his stick out, then suddenly remembers, and doesn't hook. Overall there are too many penalties but when the players are following the rules and not taking dumb penalties the flow and pace is much better than it used to be.
To no one in particular:
Why it is that everything is so One-Sided with people. " If it's this then it can't be that." News flash! Yes it can be a little one thing and some of another. The refusal to see both sides is laughable.
Right, and that's a perfect example that they have adjusted.
I agree people see it too black and white, I love the crackdown on obstruction, been calling for a very strict crackdown for years, but this has gone way too far to the point where it's truly as though they are making up calls on a regular basis (again where I begin to suspect there's some sort of quota at work here). Can we not have the increased finesse of a crackdown on real penalties without the constant calling of ridiculous, and in many cases, non-existent infractions?
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 4:17 PM
Right, and that's a perfect example that they have adjusted.
I agree people see it too black and white, I love the crackdown on obstruction, been calling for a very strict crackdown for years, but this has gone way too far to the point where it's truly as though they are making up calls on a regular basis (again where I begin to suspect there's some sort of quota at work here). Can we not have the increased finesse of a crackdown on real penalties without the constant calling of ridiculous, and in many cases, non-existent infractions?
So mabybe the East has adjusted quicker than the West?
Yes in the EDM v. CHI game there were several bad calls, including the 5 min kneeing major and the completely phantom Edm penalty after Edm had like 6 PP in a row. Hemsky reminded me of Ribeiro last season. After his performance the refs let Chi have a little liberty when it came to Ales. Don't piss off the zebras. haha
So mabybe the East has adjusted quicker than the West?
Yes in the EDM v. CHI game there were several bad calls, including the 5 min kneeing major and the completely phantom Edm penalty after Edm had like 6 PP in a row. Hemsky reminded me of Ribeiro last season. After his performance the refs let Chi have a little liberty when it came to Ales. Don't piss off the zebras. haha
See that's the sort of thing that starts to decide hockey games, these ridiculous calls one after the other against one team that result in 5-3s, often times several in a row and the benefitting team scores several times. If they don't get it fixed soon, there will definitely be more guys speaking out in frustration as playoff seedings start to get decided by that kind of crap.
Maybe you should become a ref and show them how to call a perfect game.
Maybe you should become a ref and show them how to call a perfect game.
Again with the black and white bs, is there nothing between "perfect" and the absolute crap we're seeing now?
btw, I've been a ref, I know how hard the job is, which is why I am usually the first to defend them. No different in this case I don't blame the refs, I blame the standards being set for them, including what I think is pressure to make a lot of calls, whether they are there or not.
Madferret
11-21-05, 8:05 PM
Is anyone watching the Red Wings game right now? There's something major going on on the Wings bench, it looked like someone was trying to revive someone..
:confused: :confused:
Madferret
11-21-05, 8:15 PM
Jiri Fischer was taken away by ambulance after collapsing on the bench, he was hit in the throat by the puck. Now they're saying he's not being taken to the hospital.
My prayers are with Jiri at this moment..
Madferret
11-21-05, 8:19 PM
They've sent the players to the dressing room and are cleaning the ice and adding the remaining 7 minutes in the 1st to the 2nd. Hockey doesn't seem that important at the Joe right now IMO. They should call the game, maybe they will. Jiri Fischer is the most important thing right now.
Madferret
11-21-05, 8:20 PM
Commentators are saying that Jiri is breathing on his own, but CPR did revive him. This is crazy is anyone else watching this?
Wow, scary stuff, I'm still at work, but heading home soon. Hopefully Jiri is allright.
Man scary! I just flipped it on. They are talking about it now.
I just heard "breathing on his own" as I turned on the game.
He's on his way to the hospital but unconcious. man.....
seizure on the bench. Administered CPR. Hooked up to a defibrillator [sp?]
At Detroit receiving hospital in stable condition. breathing on his own.
both teams and NHL officials are meeting right now to decide if the game should continue on or not.
They are making a loudspeaker announcement at the Joe right now. Repeating what I just said.
Madferret
11-21-05, 8:50 PM
Ok, breathing, stable & responsive at the hospital was just announced by the Wings PA guy.
He suffered a seisure, nothing struck him as orginally thought.
Breathing stable & responsive though, thank God!
He just collapsed and laid his face on the edge of the boards. eery. The Wings bench went crazy calling for medics because nobody knew what was going on.
Latest... Game called off for tonight. It will be made up later.
Fischer is stabalized - that's obviously the best news.
This does deserve it's own thread.
To discuss the Fischer seizure on Detroit's bench at the Joe on November 21... please use this thread started by charlio
http://www.hockeystation.com/showthread.php?t=2019
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