Mccabe Wins Defensive Player of the Week

[Newfie John]

This should really be renamed the "defencemen of the week" but whatever.

McCabe recorded three points (1-2) in a 6-5 shootout loss to the Ottawa Senators last Monday, tallied one assist in a 4-2 victory against the Philadelphia Flyers on Tuesday and had four assists in a 9-1 rout at Atlanta on Friday. McCabe finished the week by logging a game-high 26:09 in ice time as the Maple Leafs defeated the Montreal Canadiens 3-2 at Bell Centre on Saturday.

Also considered were defencemen John-Michael Liles of the Colorado Avalanche (2-4 in three games), Toronto's Tomas Kaberle (0-6 in four games) and Steve Eminger of the Washington Capitals (2-3 in four games).

We all knew Mccabe could score, but he isn't taking hardly any penalties, in a system where critics said he would be crippled. So far this season he's been burned once defensively vs Marty Havlat. He's been rock solid offensively from the point as he's second or third in the league in points, let alone defencemen.

Good on Kaberle to get honorable mention aswell.

[leaferfan87]

Great job by McCabe this week, he and Kaberle have really helped the Leafs PP. Congrats to O'Neill on getting honorable mention for Player of the Week honours.

[Yoata]

This makes no sense, he's had 7 PP points, 2 ES points, and is a +1, what makes him the defensive player of the week?

[leaferfan87]

This makes no sense, he's had 7 PP points, 2 ES points, and is a +1, what makes him the defensive player of the week?

Hence why NJ stated that this should be called "defenseman of the week."

[J.R.]

This makes no sense, he's had 7 PP points, 2 ES points, and is a +1, what makes him the defensive player of the week?
I was thinking the same thing.

This is more like the offensive defenceman award of the week, if the NHL is using offensive statistics to decide the recipient.

In my biased opinion, I think former Kitchener Ranger Steve Eminger should have won. ;)

[Yoata]

Hence why NJ stated that this should be called "defenseman of the week."

Well maybe you think it should be, but the fact is, it's not.

Hedican's a +7 so far this season on not a great team, although I don't how much of it was last week?

[Madferret]

'Most second assists when your team gets 14 pp's in 1 game' player of the week..
9 pts and a +1, that's brutal.
D-E-F-E-N-S-E Bryan, D-E-F-E-N-S-E

:)

[TimmyTabasco]

Hedican's a +7 so far this season on not a great team, although I don't how much of it was last week?

Hedican will thrive in the new NHL

That guy has speed to burn :nod:

[Yoata]

'Most second assists when your team gets 14 pp's in 1 game' player of the week..
9 pts and a +1, that's brutal.
D-E-F-E-N-S-E Bryan, D-E-F-E-N-S-E

:)

Yeah but they were mostly 3rd period 2nd assists. :D

[Yoata]

Hedican will thrive in the new NHL

That guy has speed to burn :nod:

That he does, not the greatest hands in the world though.

[Newfie John]

Do you see Brendan Witt winning any Norris'? I don't think so. The offensive d-men always get it. Take a look at past winners. Mccabe has done well defensively. He's getting like 30-35 a night and he's played against the sens twice, habs twice and Philly once. To get 9 points in that time frame be steady defensively too earns this award for him. Well deserved.

+/- is a useless statistic. How many times have I said this, Jyrki Lumme lead the league in this stat while playing with the leafs. Who won it last year, Malik Malik? Should we give him the Norris? Almost makes me sick to think about it.. please.

[PDO]

+/- is useless without context.

Put it into context, and it's the most important stat in hockey.

[leaferfan87]

NJ is right. A solid defender who stays at home doesn't get noticed more times than not while an offensive defensemen does. As NJ pointed out he has been playing 30-35 minutes a game against pretty good teams and has held his own. As for those of you who attribute it to the PP well that's what a good defensemen does is quarterback the PP and create chances and McCabe has been doing that.

[KB in Kelowna]

Question, who bestows this "honour" (honor for our Amercian freinds) and why don't I remember ever hearing about it before?

[leaferfan87]

Question, who bestows this "honour" (honor for our Amercian freinds) and why don't I remember ever hearing about it before?

This award? Funny, you know something I don't remember hearing about it either.

[J.R.]

This award? Funny, you know something I don't remember hearing about it either.So I guess it's congratulations for winning a make-believe award, McCabe? Well done man. I can see a ficticious Norris trophy coming your way too.

:wicked:

[Yoata]

Do you see Brendan Witt winning any Norris'? I don't think so. The offensive d-men always get it. Take a look at past winners. Mccabe has done well defensively. He's getting like 30-35 a night and he's played against the sens twice, habs twice and Philly once. To get 9 points in that time frame be steady defensively too earns this award for him. Well deserved.

+/- is a useless statistic. How many times have I said this, Jyrki Lumme lead the league in this stat while playing with the leafs. Who won it last year, Malik Malik? Should we give him the Norris? Almost makes me sick to think about it.. please.

This is not the Norris, it is the defensive player of the week, it's not about scoring, it's about stopping scoring, that's why it's often a goaltender that wins it.

Btw, sometimes the top defensive dman do get consideration for the Norris, Rod Langway won it twice, and Vladdy Konstantinov was a runner up in his short career. Regardless, this isn't about the Norris, as I said, defensive player of the week.

[Newfie John]

This is not the Norris, it is the defensive player of the week, it's not about scoring, it's about stopping scoring, that's why it's often a goaltender that wins it.

Btw, sometimes the top defensive dman do get consideration for the Norris, Rod Langway won it twice, and Vladdy Konstantinov was a runner up in his short career. Regardless, this isn't about the Norris, as I said, defensive player of the week.

This day in age it's pretty much the same thing only shorter time frame. When a defencemen wins it it's the Norris trophy for that week, when a goaltender wins it its for the Vezina of that week.

Bobby Orr, was average defensively. He's the best defencemen who ever lived according to many.

[macca]

.

Bobby Orr, was average defensively.

Are you kidding me?:confused: Bobby Orr was unbelievable defensively. He could take a puck off an opposing players stick with one hand as that player came at him at full speed, control it, and then be heading up ice at full speed within seconds. Bobby Orr could skake backwards almost as good as he could skate going forward. He blocked shots as good as anyone. Orr was amazing offensively and defensively, and that is why he is the best defenceman who has ever played the game.

[Yoata]

This day in age it's pretty much the same thing only shorter time frame. When a defencemen wins it it's the Norris trophy for that week, when a goaltender wins it its for the Vezina of that week.

Uh, NO IT ISN'T. Just because Mcpivot won it means it's the "Norris trophy for the week"??? You saying it should be called the defenseman of the week trophy doesn't make it so. Forwards and mostly goaltenders win it as well, and that's because it is supposed to be about whose being DEFENSIVELY dominant, not who's getting PP assists. :rolleyes:

Also, see Macca's post about Orr's D, the guy was + a hundred and something at least once or twice in his career, Orr dominated EVERY aspect of the game.

[Madferret]

And McCabe is still without a roster spot on Team Canada...

:)

[THE HACK]

Congrats to McCabe on what is really a meaningless award!

This is why the league should just get rid of the "Weekly" awards because they're stupid and some teams play more games while others play less games so its not a fair award.The league should just hand out 5 "Monthly" awards with one going to the "Offensive and Defensive Forward,Offensive and defencive Defenceman and Goaltender of the month" and just leave it at that!

Cheers

[Newfie John]

Uh, NO IT ISN'T. Just because Mcpivot won it means it's the "Norris trophy for the week"??? You saying it should be called the defenseman of the week trophy doesn't make it so. Forwards and mostly goaltenders win it as well, and that's because it is supposed to be about whose being DEFENSIVELY dominant, not who's getting PP assists. :rolleyes:



If that's the case why did the NHL give it to Mccabe. So far this season he's been solid defensively. Do you disagree? I still think you'll see the defencmen with 60 points and average defensively win the Norris over a great defender who's an average to sub par offensive guy.

[Newfie John]

And McCabe is still without a roster spot on Team Canada...

:)

Yet.

They had a report on The Score about it just now. They were talking about his great play(in all aspects, not just offense). Quinn said that he will be looked at as one of the guys going in. If he continues playing this well he'll be on the team without doubt.

[Madferret]

If that's the case why did the NHL give it to Mccabe. So far this season he's been solid defensively. Do you disagree? I still think you'll see the defencmen with 60 points and average defensively win the Norris over a great defender who's an average to sub par offensive guy.

+/- John. With all his offense he's only a +1, what does that say about his defensive abilities?

[Newfie John]

+/- John. With all his offense he's only a +1, what does that say about his defensive abilities?

There are 4 other guys on the ice with him. The leafs D-zone coverage has been horrible and the forwards backchecking are not doing their jobs, except for Stajan and Steen, who never play with Mccabe. It's a team stat. Mccabe has been very solid defensively.

[The Insider]

Congrats to Bryan, he was the best defenceman for the week and helped the team get 7 out of a possible 8 points. McCabe has been impressive early this season, and putting him out there with Kaberle again has done wonders for both players' stats. I was skeptical of him coming into the season based on his play in Europe, but he has adjusted well to the rules and is a key part to our team, in fact if he does keep it up, he just may very well earn an Olympic spot with team Canada, since if you're talking about dark horses for the team, McCabe has to be at the top of that list.

[Newfie John]

Congrats to Bryan, he was the best defenceman for the week and helped the team get 7 out of a possible 8 points. McCabe has been impressive early this season, and putting him out there with Kaberle again has done wonders for both players' stats. I was skeptical of him coming into the season based on his play in Europe, but he has adjusted well to the rules and is a key part to our team, in fact if he does keep it up, he just may very well earn an Olympic spot with team Canada, since if you're talking about dark horses for the team, McCabe has to be at the top of that list.

Agreed 100%.

[leaferfan87]

There was an article in the Star today by Damien Cox about how McCabe has been playing so well during this regular season and will merit more mention for the Olympics. Cox compared McCabe to elite defensemen (Blake, Brewer etc) and actually found that McCabe has been more successful so far this season.

He's put himself back on the list of potential candidates for the Olympic Team. Remember this article is coming from Cox! For Cox to write something positive on the Toronto Maple Leafs takes alot and McCabe has done alot.

[Newfie John]

Cox wrote something positve about the leafs? :shock:

Comparing Mccabe to Blake and top defencmen after the first week is premature though.

[leaferfan87]

Cox wrote something positve about the leafs? :shock:

Comparing Mccabe to Blake and top defencmen after the first week is premature though.

The whole article wasn't focused on McCabe necessarily. It was pointing out that some of the players who are so called "locks" for the Olympic Team are struggling a little to start the season.

It also goes farther to say that certain players (ie. Kariya, Sullivan, Savard and *shudder* Lindros) have earned another look from Gretz and the boys.

Essentially the point of the article is to state that the Olympic team isn't as "locked" as it might appear to be and Cox used a local player, McCabe, to prove that point.

[Yoata]

If that's the case why did the NHL give it to Mccabe.

That's the mystery, and why I said it makes no sense in the first place.

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

That's the mystery, and why I said it makes no sense in the first place.

The award is meaningless anyways. There's probably no set criteria for it, which makes it extremely subjective. On top of that, I doubt the people who are deciding on the award see more than 6 or 7 games a week. McCabe won it because he filled up the stat sheets this week and stood out.

[Yoata]

McCabe won it because he filled up the stat sheets this week and stood out.

Defensively?

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Defensively?

Not at all.

Like I said, the people who decide this thing probably don't see more than a handful of games each week.

[Yoata]

Besides the fact that you're obviously basing that assumption on pure conjecture, it's irrelevant, it is the defensive player of the week award. Does the fact that a leaf won it make it so difficult for you to see that it doesn't make sense for someone to win this award who displayed offensive rather than defensive prowess during that period? Because that's all I'm saying. Perhaps if it wasn't a leaf that won it you might be able to see the point?

I agree with others that if anything he maybe should've won the offensive player of the week honours, but don't see how he could be considered the defensive player of the week based on offensive stats?

[Leafs_Fa_Life]

Him being a Leaf has nothing to do with it. I've never once said I think McCabe should've won the award because I don't think he should have. I just stated my opinion on why the league might've given it to him.

If McCabe wasn't a Leaf would you even give two sh*ts if he won the award or not? This probably wouldn't even get its own thread, and nobody would care.

[Yoata]

Right you are, and sorry I mistook your posts as arguments against my point.

To be honest you've probably got me on your 2nd point as well, good show.

Then again, it wasn't me, but a leafer that started the thread. :D

[Newfie John]

But Yoatal, Mccabe was solid defensively this week. Did you watch any leaf games? He's been impressive.

Bob Nicholson said that Mccabe will be on the preliminary list for Team Canada.

Toronto Maple Leafs defenceman Bryan McCabe wasn't in Kelowna but is among leading NHL point-getters. He'll be on the preliminary list, said Nicholson.

''He's played very, very well so far this year,'' said Nicholson.

[macca]

Yet.

They had a report on The Score about it just now. They were talking about his great play(in all aspects, not just offense). Quinn said that he will be looked at as one of the guys going in. If he continues playing this well he'll be on the team without doubt.

I disagree. I don't think he'll be picked. He's too hot headed and takes stupid penalties. Unless Team Canada has injuries on D, McCabe will still be way down the list, or should be. The Leafs are winning at the moment, but when they start to lose that's when McCabe blows his gasket and does something stupid, usually he starts yapping and acting like an idiot. That is what Gretzky and company are worried about. McCabe is having a good start to the season but his past will haunt him in their final decision.

[Max Power]

If he keeps playing like he is I think he'll get a spot. I've never been a fan because his whining and has poor defensive skill but so far this year he looks like he's adapted well and has quit his old ways. He'll be on the initial list for team Canada but then again everyone will. If he keeps his play up I don't know how he can be overlooked

[Newfie John]

I disagree. I don't think he'll be picked. He's too hot headed and takes stupid penalties. Unless Team Canada has injuries on D, McCabe will still be way down the list, or should be. The Leafs are winning at the moment, but when they start to lose that's when McCabe blows his gasket and does something stupid, usually he starts yapping and acting like an idiot. That is what Gretzky and company are worried about. McCabe is having a good start to the season but his past will haunt him in their final decision.

Has Mccabe been doing that this season so far?

[Madferret]

Has Mccabe been doing that this season so far?

+1

[Newfie John]

+1

Like I said before, there were 4 other people on the ice, plus the goaltender. At the beginning of the season after the opener, Belfour wasn't solid. Our D zone coverage was just horrible mostly because the forwards weren't backchecking so the defencemen had to go higher then they had to, the puck was worked around, the open man was found, bang, goal. Do you disagree anywhere here?

The +/- stat is useless for judging individual talent. For judging a team? It's good. For judging a line, its good. Otherwise, it's garbage.

[Madferret]

Like I said before, there were 4 other people on the ice, plus the goaltender. At the beginning of the season after the opener, Belfour wasn't solid. Our D zone coverage was just horrible mostly because the forwards weren't backchecking so the defencemen had to go higher then they had to, the puck was worked around, the open man was found, bang, goal. Do you disagree anywhere here?.


Well, where I come from if the defensive zone coverage is crap you blame the defenders. I've watched every Leaf game minus the last one against the Habs, and the whole blueline has been suspect. How Belfour is playing is what saves the blueline from total disgrace and allowable disgrace. Blaming the forwards is pretty weak, sure they can backcheck but ultimately it's the bluelines' responsibility for clearing the puck out of the zone, which has been the Leafs biggest defensive problems. Add in Beflour playing average and you saw what happens (0-1-2). Belfour has been himself the past 3 games so the defensive mistakes aren't that obvious. Take away those 4 or 5 assists McCabe got on the powerplay against Atlanta and he's a <-> defenseman. It's not a team stat John, that's called goal differential.

[Newfie John]

Well, where I come from if the defensive zone coverage is crap you blame the defenders.

D zone coverage involves all 5 guys on the ice. The 3 forwards aren't there causing the defencemen to cover more ground then they're supposed to. You're supposed to have 2 high men on the points, sometimes only one. Then you have either one or 2 helping the defencmen in deep. Way too many times the leaf's defencemen are left alone. It's a common mistake though to blame the defencmen.

I've watched every Leaf game minus the last one against the Habs, and the whole blueline has been suspect.

Mccabe did his job if you ask me. The forwards on the back check and d zone coverage were almost non existant. Belfour bailed us out.

How Belfour is playing is what saves the blueline from total disgrace and allowable disgrace.

Not the blueline, but the 5 players on the ice. Ferret, I know you have enough hockey knowledge to know forwards do in fact play defense too. It's a necessity actually. I've coached teams(unorthodox at my age I know, I've heard it all before), the 2 defencmen can only handle so much. The forwards have to come back. When they come back they just can't stand there either, thats' been happening too.

Blaming the forwards is pretty weak,

......

[/quote] sure they can backcheck but ultimately it's the bluelines' responsibility for clearing the puck out of the zone, which has been the Leafs biggest defensive problems.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, and why haven't the leafs been able to clear the zone? Because the other team has 3 forwards and a lot of the time 1 or 2 defensmen in the offensive zone while you have only 2 defencmen working while the forwards are doing pretty much nothing, except for the guys taking the point, which is the easiest job in the zone. The help down low has been near non existant. It's improving but it has a long way to go.

Add in Beflour playing average and you saw what happens (0-1-2).

He wasn't playing average, he was playing sub par. I think it was a .856 sv % to start the year.

Belfour has been himself the past 3 games so the defensive mistakes aren't that obvious.

Yes they are, just they aren't on the scoresheet. They're still glaring IMO. Take the game against Montreal, they had the puck almost the whole game. The forwards wanted to play offense and that was it. It was either they were tired or were willing to take the risk. Mccabe and Kaberle have been playing 30-35 minutes in these conditions and they've been solid. When they're on the ice with Steen, the D zone coverage is usually good. The other 2 forwards cover the points while Steen is always down low helping the defencemen. The other leaf forwards should really pay attention to Steen. He's been terrific and I'm sure the leaf defence appreciates it. When Steen is on the ice with Mccabe and Kaberle(not often enough, because Steen has to be on with Berg to try and neutralize Berg's stupidity and lack of talent), they're gold defensively.

Take away those 4 or 5 assists McCabe got on the powerplay against Atlanta and he's a <-> defenseman

What?

It's not a team stat John, that's called goal differential.

LOL! Thats what +/- is. A goal differential. The differential of goals for and goals against while team is on the ice. Or the line.

[macca]

Has Mccabe been doing that this season so far?
No. The Leafs have been winning early in the season so McCabe has kept his yap shut. Wait till the Leafs hit a losing skid to see how McCabe reacts. That is when McCabe will be judged by Gretzky and company. McCabe is off to a great start, but the season is only a few weeks old. Also, based on previous years and having to endure listening to McCabe speak on various issues, I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the tool box. So just based on that fact alone he'd be way down on my list.8)

[Newfie John]

No. The Leafs have been winning early in the season so McCabe has kept his yap shut. Wait till the Leafs hit a losing skid to see how McCabe reacts. That is when McCabe will be judged by Gretzky and company. McCabe is off to a great start, but the season is only a few weeks old. Also, based on previous years and having to endure listening to McCabe speak on various issues, I don't think he's the sharpest tool in the tool box. So just based on that fact alone he'd be way down on my list.8)

We started the season with 3 straight losses. He kept his yap shut. We shouldn't have losing streaks much bigger then that for the rest of the season.

[bluemeanie]

Some food for the McCabe fans...

Leetch: McCabe the best
The sure-fire hall of famer and longtime superstar was so impressed with McCabe in his short time here in 2004 that he thinks McCabe is the top defencemen in the game.

"I think (McCabe) can win the Norris Trophy and he's the best player I've played with in my career as a partner," Leetch said. "I was hoping that I would be able to play with him and help him gain that distinction and have a small part in it, but he obviously didn't need me because he's on his way anyway."

McCabe trails only Ranger star Jaromir Jagr in the NHL scoring race.Story (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1130105407602&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home)

[Max Power]

Some food for the McCabe fans...

Leetch: McCabe the best
Story (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1130105407602&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home)

I saw this a few hours ago and was just waiting for NJ to write an essay on it. =]
Like I said before McCabe has some very notable offensive strengths and has looked fairly good with the new rule changes so far but best in league is a little exaggerations from an obvious friend (x leaf). Especially since McCabe did not look too good defensively most of the time they played together.
I?ll wait till ? of the season before saying a Norris nomination is a joke

[bluemeanie]

I saw this a few hours ago and was just waiting for NJ to write an essay on it. =]
Like I said before McCabe has some very notable offensive strengths and has looked fairly good with the new rule changes so far but best in league is a little exaggerations from an obvious friend (x leaf). Especially since McCabe did not look too good defensively most of the time they played together.
I?ll wait till ? of the season before saying a Norris nomination is a joke

Agree completely. McCabe certainly isn't the best defensive player on the Leafs, but he is our best player right now and that may award him some Olympic or Norris consideration provided he keeps it up. There aren't many defensemen in the league as of yet making much of case anyhow, so time will tell. But, Leetch.... he probably owes McCabe some money or something.

[Yoata]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=140781&hubname=nhl

Wow, who knew a goaltender could win the "Norris trophy for the week"? Without even getting any powerplay points no less. :rolleyes:

[Madferret]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=140781&hubname=nhl

Wow, who knew a goaltender could win the "Norris trophy for the week"? Without even getting any powerplay points no less. :rolleyes:

Hey he's got 1 goal and is - 2 so far tonight, come on..

;)

[Yoata]

Yeah and Legace's got a Powerplay assist so far tonight, so he's in line to win the Defensive Player of the Week again, according to somebody's criteria. ;)

[butterfly_style]

*bump*
Did you notice who got defensive player of the week, this week ?
Henrik Lundqvist, G-man for the Rangers!
I wonder how much offense he contributed to get defensive player of the week.

:stir:

[Amoroq]

You know this thread is titled wrong. Its NHL Player of the week. Not Defensive player if the week.

8:16 AM EST, 11/01/2005 NHL Players of The Week
Oct. 31 - F Eric Staal, Carolina
Oct. 24 - F Craig Conroy, Los Angeles
Oct. 17 - F Steve Sullivan, Nashville
Oct. 10 - C Marc Savard, Atlanta
Oct. 31 - G Henrik Lundqvist, N.Y. Rangers
Oct. 24 - G Manny Legace, Detroit
Oct. 17 - D Bryan McCabe, Toronto
Oct. 10 - G Roberto Luongo, Florida

http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/11/241372.html

Doesn't that change things ;)

[butterfly_style]

Sure, it depends on the source whether it's player of the week - OR- offensive/defensive player of the week.
CBC's version of NHL player of the week (http://www.cbc.ca/story/sports/national/2005/10/31/Sports/nhlplayersofweek051031.html)

[Amoroq]

Cool, so he made two independent lists, how cool is that? ;)

[butterfly_style]

Cool, so he made two independent lists, how cool is that? ;)
I'm sure McCabe has made many other "lists" as well, but these are the positive ones.

[Yoata]

You know this thread is titled wrong. Its NHL Player of the week. Not Defensive player if the week.

8:16 AM EST, 11/01/2005 NHL Players of The Week
Oct. 31 - F Eric Staal, Carolina
Oct. 24 - F Craig Conroy, Los Angeles
Oct. 17 - F Steve Sullivan, Nashville
Oct. 10 - C Marc Savard, Atlanta
Oct. 31 - G Henrik Lundqvist, N.Y. Rangers
Oct. 24 - G Manny Legace, Detroit
Oct. 17 - D Bryan McCabe, Toronto
Oct. 10 - G Roberto Luongo, Florida

http://www.nhl.com/news/2005/11/241372.html

Doesn't that change things ;)

Uh, notice there's two for each week?

One for Offensive, one for Defensive.

And another goaltender wins the "Norris of the week" award.

Who knew? ;)

Also, McPicot's what -4 now?

[Iced Tea]

McCabe plays over 28 minutes per game, has 30 points so far this season and he's a +1. How can this be? Does McCabe even play in the Leafs end or is he waiting for the breakout pass so he can go rack up some more points?

A defenseman should be capable of playing both ends of the ice. I know there are 5 players on the ice but the defensemen and the goalie are the keys to keeping the puck out of the net. If a defenseman is unable to do his job in his team's end, he becomes a liability no matter his offensive numbers.

[Madferret]

Hey at least they got it right and gave him the 'offensive player of the week award' this time.

[charlio lemieux]

McCabe plays over 28 minutes per game, has 30 points so far this season and he's a +1. How can this be? Does McCabe even play in the Leafs end or is he waiting for the breakout pass so he can go rack up some more points?

A defenseman should be capable of playing both ends of the ice. I know there are 5 players on the ice but the defensemen and the goalie are the keys to keeping the puck out of the net. If a defenseman is unable to do his job in his team's end, he becomes a liability no matter his offensive numbers.

If you don't think he can play in his own end may I suggest watching a few Leafs Games. He was +4 since last Tuesday, and the return of Sundin should keep McCabe on the plus side.

[Newfie John]

McCabe plays over 28 minutes per game, has 30 points so far this season and he's a +1. How can this be? Does McCabe even play in the Leafs end or is he waiting for the breakout pass so he can go rack up some more points?

A defenseman should be capable of playing both ends of the ice. I know there are 5 players on the ice but the defensemen and the goalie are the keys to keeping the puck out of the net. If a defenseman is unable to do his job in his team's end, he becomes a liability no matter his offensive numbers.

Actually watch him on the ice before you assume such things. He's been solid in his own end. Now that he's usually on the ice with Steen and Sundin, he has some help. O'niell is still off in his own little world but his job defensively isn't hard when Sundin and Steen are out there. Mccabe has been playing well defensively. If you watched the games, you'd know that.

[Newfie John]

Hey at least they got it right and gave him the 'offensive player of the week award' this time.

They had it right last time, he was playing very well defensively at that time as well.

[Iced Tea]

If you don't think he can play in his own end may I suggest watching a few Leafs Games. He was +4 since last Tuesday, and the return of Sundin should keep McCabe on the plus side.I see the Leafs every Saturday night and whenever TSN shows the Leafs nationally. Why would Sundin's return make up for McCabe's poor play in the Leafs' end?

So McCabe was a -3 until last Tuesday, why is his plus/minus so bad? Wade Redden has 19 points and is a +18, Joni Pitkanen has 21 points and is a +18. Both players can score and defend their own end so why can't McCabe?

[Newfie John]

I see the Leafs every Saturday night and whenever TSN shows the Leafs nationally. Why would Sundin's return make up for McCabe's poor play in the Leafs' end?

So McCabe was a -3 until last Tuesday, why is his plus/minus so bad? Wade Redden has 19 points and is a +18, Joni Pitkanen has 21 points and is a +18. Both players can score and defend their own end so why can't McCabe?

You haven't been watching that closely if you're saying Mccabe can't play defence.

How does Sundin's return help Mccabe's +/-(NOT DEFENSIVE PLAY, he's been solid all year there)? Mccabe is a defencemen, he is doing his job back there, as is Kaberle though he has a tough time sometimes. There are 3 forwards out there, and 2 defencemen. Oft times the defence get outnumbered down low. Thats when the forwards come down. Sundin and Steen do that. Mccabe wasn't out there with them before that, and his +/- suffered. Sometimes other guys would come down, but wouldn't be effective. Mccabe can't play defence for everyone. He's been carrying his end. You hear Quinn talking about "defensive zone coverage" all the time, and how that is where the leafs main struggle lies(it's improved lately). This is what he's talking about. When Mccabe has better teammates out there with him, they work as a team and they play solid D together. Mccabe has been playing good individual D all year. Last Saturday on Atlanta he was out there against Kovalchuck EVERY SHIFT. He did a good job. Kovalchuck scored on the PP with a rocket. Nothing you can do about that.

Mccabe's individual D has been good. There's no denying that. If you disagree, point out to me where he's made a mistake? I've been watching him like a hawk and he's been very good back there. It's usually guys like Jeff O'niell or Jaosn Allison that end up screwing it up, forcing some scrambling around and eventually a goal. Because of say, Jason Allison's mistake, Mccabe's +/- goes down. See what I mean?

As for the leafs team D, hasn't been good up until recently.

[charlio lemieux]

I see the Leafs every Saturday night and whenever TSN shows the Leafs nationally. Why would Sundin's return make up for McCabe's poor play in the Leafs' end?

So McCabe was a -3 until last Tuesday, why is his plus/minus so bad? Wade Redden has 19 points and is a +18, Joni Pitkanen has 21 points and is a +18. Both players can score and defend their own end so why can't McCabe?
Redden is on the ice with the best, and highest scoring line in hockey.

Pitkanen is on the ice with the Second best, and second highest scoring line in hockey.

Visnovsky from LA enjoys the same benefit of playing with a top scoring line.

With the addition of Sundin, our best player, McCabe will now share his ice time with a better forward line. Thus increasing his potential for even strength goals being scored while he is on the ice.

[Man.Utd]

Redden is on the ice with the best, and highest scoring line in hockey.

That's almost always Chara / Phillips to compensate for a line that is, although just great offensively, but pretty suspect in their own end aswell. I'm not saying he's playing with scrubs or anything, but it's not the Redden / Volchenkov pairing that is getting the benefit of our big line's scoring exploits, that's for dran sure. Just check Anton's +/-. He's a +12, which isn't overly great for a team with a goal differential of over +40. It's not bad by any means, but he's being beaten by rookie sensation Andrej Meszaros (+18, good for 3rd on our team and 1st among Ottawa defensemen) and actually not far off from Brian "and another defensive zone give away" Pothier (+9). Redden ha a high +/- minus for no other reason that he is very strong at both ends of the ice. That just can't be said for McCabe.

Infact, many of Redden's points have come on the PP (10 or more wouldn't shock me). There he certainly does get the benefit of playing with argueably the most talented forwards in the league. Looking at the numbers, he's 3rd in PP time per game on this squad with almost 6 minutes each night and trails only Spezza in Heatley and that category. Alas, +/- is not effected by SH and PP tallies whether they be for or against.

EDIT - On McCabe, he's overrated. Simply average in his own end, and not even among the elite offensive defensemen even strength. It seems the only time a team really takes notice of Caber is when the Leafs have the man advantage because of his huge one-timer. So what do they do? Pressure the points. Sometimes this is an effecitve stratagy and nullifies an excellent Toronto PP, but other times it opens things up down low and I've seen Toronto exploit that on more than a few occasions. He makes a killing on the PP just by his presence at times, and that is huge. Ultimately this type of performance (great 5 on 4 or better, just above average 5 on 5, at or approaching average in his own end) will keep his name of the Norris ballets (and so it should) but in the end his PP production and work in his own end, which is enough to get by though not that of a stalwart, is helping his team win games and helping them win in a huge way. McCabe has been instrumental to T.O.'s success and will have to continue to be if they hope for win more games as the season moves on. Mission accomplished, thunmbs up, the whole works. Rob Blake won the Norris with a minus rating and no one complained (though McCabe isn't the same player Blake was when he won it......).

[Newfie John]

Andy, Mccabe has done very well in his own end this season. There's no doubting that. If you're only noticing Mccabe on the power play, you really have to take a closer look.

Am I the only person who actually watches the game instead of watching the puck go around and see who gets it?

[Amoroq]

When it involves a Leaf player, you will never convince the haters, even if Wayne Gretzky, Cam Neely and Ray Borque played for the Leafs, the hater wouild find a way. It is their nature. And in no way am I comparing McCabe to the above players, but McCabe is the best overall dman in the league at this moment in time.

[charlio lemieux]

2001-2002
17g 26a 43p +16 129 pim # unknown

2002-2003
6g 18a 24p +9 135pim as #3 defenseman

2003-2004
15g 37a 53p +22 86pim as #1 to sart and #2 after Leetch arrived.

2005-2006
9g 21a 30p +1 34pim as the undisputed #1 D-man in only 21 games.

An interesting stat I found. McCabe has only 9, count them 9, even strength points, so if he is still a plus, they can't be scoring too many against the Leafs when he is on the ice.

[Max Power]

From what I?ve seen I don?t know how people can say he?s been exceptional defensively?
But I must admit I?ve only watched about 5 leaf games. McCabe has been just amazing offensively and that can?t be taken away from him. I agree that Leaf haters might also be biased about McCabe?s skill but McCabe lovers are bias about his defensive ability.

[charlio lemieux]

From what I?ve seen I don?t know how people can say he?s been exceptional defensively?
But I must admit I?ve only watched about 5 leaf games. McCabe has been just amazing offensively and that can?t be taken away from him. I agree that Leaf haters might also be biased about McCabe?s skill but McCabe lovers are bias about his defensive ability.

I'm not trying to say he's better defensively than Adam Foote, Jason Smith (First stupid Quinn trade) or some other defensive wizard. He's just alot better than most people give him credit for. When he's a plus, it's because of his team. When he's a minus, he's an Idoit. This guy has been ragged on his whole carreer.:burning: Now if people would put away their "Toronto Haters Club" badges and hats and look at his stats and actually watch him play, they would see an obvious Norris Trophy candidate for this year.
Show me the Defensemen who have Outscored, had more ice-time, better plus minus and played more games, than MCCabe, in the last 5 seasons. I would like to see that list it should have some good players.

[Madferret]

Show me the Defensemen who have Outscored, had more ice-time, better plus minus and played more games, than MCCabe, in the last 5 seasons. I would like to see that list it should have some good players.

Charlio you're good at finding stats, if it's your claim why don't you provide us with those stats yourself? I'd like to see that list myself also!

[Max Power]

I'm not trying to say he's better defensively than Adam Foote, Jason Smith (First stupid Quinn trade) or some other defensive wizard. He's just alot better than most people give him credit for. When he's a plus, it's because of his team. When he's a minus, he's an Idoit. This guy has been ragged on his whole carreer.:burning: Now if people would put away their "Toronto Haters Club" badges and hats and look at his stats and actually watch him play, they would see an obvious Norris Trophy candidate for this year.
Show me the Defensemen who have Outscored, had more ice-time, better plus minus and played more games, than MCCabe, in the last 5 seasons. I would like to see that list it should have some good players.

That list could be long =]

His numbers have been good but a little inconsistent in the past. I?m sure most McCabe lovers will also chose to ignore his short stint in Europe.

I can?t argue any of this as I?ve not watched enough of him but what I have he has been mediocre defensively at best. Offensively he?s been amazing and this is hard to admit considering I thought his offensive skills were a flash in the pan because he was fishing for the big contract. In all honesty I?d love to see him get invited to play for team Canada so we can all get a good look at his defensive capabilities against the best. If he does well I?ll never doubt his abilities again.

The thing is and what I?d like to understand is what defines a Norris candidate? I always though it was awarded to the stalwart defensemen of the year. Not just the guy who racked a %^&$ load of points.

[bluemeanie]

The thing is and what I?d like to understand is what defines a Norris candidate?

We'd all like to know. There hasn't been a lot of consistancy in the type of winner over the years. Sometimes it seems to be based on +/-, sometimes points, sometime it's based on how much that player contributed to his team overall. With all that said, it's safe to assume that McCabe can at least be a consideration at this point. But the real issue is, fishnet or knee-highs; what's more slutty?

[butterfly_style]

But the real issue is, fishnet or knee-highs; what's more slutty?
Why worry about it ?
I'm sure you have a pair of knee-high / fishnets in your wardrobe.

[bluemeanie]

Why worry about it ?
I'm sure you have a pair of knee-high / fishnets in your wardrobe.

That's the problem... I have both. And I want to know which will make me look sleezier for my Christmas card cover this year. Any help is appreciated here boys. =]

[Madferret]

That's the problem... I have both. And I want to know which will make me look sleezier for my Christmas card cover this year. Any help is appreciated here boys. =]

Break out a nipple.

:D

[bluemeanie]

Break out a nipple.
:D

It's a Christmas card for christ's sake not a Mother day card. Man... you should go easy on that Waterloo water there Dev.

[Madferret]

It's a Christmas card for christ's sake not a Mother day card. Man... you should go easy on that Waterloo water there Dev.

Don't pinch on the nipples Blue, nipples work with any Holiday or special occasion.
I betcha McCabe whipped out his nipple when he received his 'Player of the Week' award..

*sip*

[charlio lemieux]

Statistics DO NOT include this years stats.

Numbers cover the last 5 NHL seasons.


_______+/-________________Points_____________Assists________ ____Goals___________ Games Played___
Lidstrom __+100__/__Lidstrom__ __303__/___Lidstrom___231__/___Blake____ ___83___/___ Lidstrom____404
Rafalski_____96___/__Blake_______263__/___Blake______180_/__Lidstrom_____72___/____Redden_____395
Pronger_____92___/__Pronger_____214__/___Rafalski____177__/__Schneider____63__/____Zubov______395
Neidermayer_88___/__Rafalski_____207__/___Pronger____170__/___Redden_____56___/___McCabe_____393
Redden_____87___/__Schneider____207__/___Kaberle_____165__/__Hamrlik_____51___/___Kaberle_____386
Hatcher_____64___/__Redden______205__/___Zubov______155__/__MCCabe____50___/___Hamrlik____380
Aucoin______59___/__Zubov_______204__/___Neidermayer_150__/__Zubov______49___/___Rafalski____377
Desjardins___57___/__Kaberle_____202__/___ Redden_____149__/__Neidermayer_49___/___Chara______375
McCabe_____55___/__Neidermayer_199__/___Hamrlik_____147__/__Aucoin______47___/___Blake______372
Blake_______55___/__Hamrlik_____198__/___Schneider___144__/__Jovanovski___47___/___Neidermayer_366
Kaberle_____54___/__Jovanovski___190__/___Jovanovski___143__/__Pronger_____44___/___Aucoin_____365
Chara______38___/___MCCabe_____174__/___Desjardins___128__/__Desjardins___44__/___Schneider___364
Zubov______37___/___Desjardins____172__/__McCabe____124__/___Chara______39__/___Jovanovski__359
Schneider__23___/___Aucoin_______165__/___Aucoin_____118__/___Ohlund_____38__/___Desjardins__352
Ohlund_____21__/___Ohlund________147__/__Ohlund_____109__/__Kaberle_____37___/___Ohlund_____329
Hamrlik____11___/___Chara________123__/___Hatcher_____90__/__Rafalski_____30___/___Hatcher____314
Jovanovski__10__/___Hatcher_______106__/___Chara______84___/__Hatcher_____16__/___Pronger_____293


Some players took a hit to their stats with other teams, than their current one, so before anyone freaks out, check the stats for yourself.

[bluemeanie]

Numbers cover the last 5 NHL seasons.


This can't be creditable... Chara shows up twice under assists. =]

[charlio lemieux]

This can't be creditable... Chara shows up twice under assists. =]
Good Catch! Chara was above Desjardins on my list, and my eyes are going buggy.:laughing: :laughing: :eyebug: :eyebug:

[Newfie John]

Max, could you please point out a few instances where Mccabe has been less then mediocre to me? I'll look out for those situations in the future. In the games I've seen this season, he's been rock solid defensively except for 2. The 8-0 loss to Ottawa(who didn't play badly for the leafs that game) he played badly, and the game before(or maybe after) against Florida wasn't a good outing of his. Other then that he's been rock solid.

I'm not ignoring his stint in europe either, he did suck out there. But he admits himself he wasn't in game shape. It wouldn't surprise me if he was just out there to pick up a few extra bucks.

[Max Power]

No I can't point out any particular instance because it was a general observation. Although he did have a strong defensive game during one of the games I watched (can't remember the one)

The point I was trying to suck the McCabe lovers into Charlio has helped me prove
Redden has been rock solid defensively and much more consistent then McCabe through his career. He has 20 points in 19 games and is a +19 this year and hasn?t even seen close to the same PP time then McCabe has. I?m not trying to take anything away from McCabe as I think he?s doing great this year and the only reason I bring this up is because the continues outcry in leaf land. If it?s not team Canada its Norris by both media and fans alike. If people want to continuously promote McCabe for Norris then Redden should be in the same sentence for those same people. Not only is Redden rock solid defensively day in day out but he produces weather it?s a contract year or not. 03 -04 season says it all when McCabe somehow racked up 4th in Norris voting just because where he is while Redden a player who had equal numbers and an equally dominating season (with Lalime) wasn?t even mentioned

Anyways like I said bring McCabe on in team Canada? this will either shut up the McCabe critics or his supporters once and for all.

[charlio lemieux]

No I can't point out any particular instance because it was a general observation. Although he did have a strong defensive game during one of the games I watched (can't remember the one)

The point I was trying to suck the McCabe lovers into Charlio has helped me prove
Redden has been rock solid defensively and much more consistent then McCabe through his career. He has 20 points in 19 games and is a +19 this year and hasn?t even seen close to the same PP time then McCabe has. I?m not trying to take anything away from McCabe as I think he?s doing great this year and the only reason I bring this up is because the continues outcry in leaf land. If it?s not team Canada its Norris by both media and fans alike. If people want to continuously promote McCabe for Norris then Redden should be in the same sentence for those same people. Not only is Redden rock solid defensively day in day out but he produces weather it?s a contract year or not. 03 -04 season says it all when McCabe somehow racked up 4th in Norris voting just because where he is while Redden a player who had equal numbers and an equally dominating season (with Lalime) wasn?t even mentioned

Anyways like I said bring McCabe on in team Canada? this will either shut up the McCabe critics or his supporters once and for all.

Highlighted Redden for you Maxy. HE has put up great numbers. One thing with that stat sheet.
It goes back 5 years, and does not include this season, which is McCabe's best, but it does include his last season as a Hawk, and two seasons on the Leafs where he wasn't a top 2 Defenseman. In his third year with the Leafs Svehla bonded with Kaberle to become the top pairing. It cost McCabe roughly 20-25 points, judging by the previous and following season.

2003-2004
Redden 17g 26a 43p +21
McCabe 16g 37a 53p +22

Redden may have been hurt by Chara as well as playing for Ottawa. Redden was almost halfway down the scoring list, whereas McCabe was second on the team in scoring. Chara's +33 and 41pts had to take some votes away from Redden too.