View Full Version : Wow. Humans to go to moon in 2018.
We're going to the moon kids. In 2018. Isn't today's technology awesome. This NASA bunch are freakin' visionaries I say.
NASA to announce 2018 moon mission
BEIJING, Sept. 19 (Xinhuanet) -- NASA is set to unveil plans Monday to take people and cargo to the moon. The new lunar program would begin in 2018 by landing four people on the moon for a seven-day stay.
It would be the first time astronauts get back to the moon since the Apollo 17 mission in 1972.
NASA presented its lunar exploration plan to the White House last Wednesday and on Capitol Hill Friday. An announcement is set for Monday at NASA headquarters in Washington.
Even before the official announcement, there is criticism from Capitol Hill over the reported $100 billion cost of the lunar program.
Bart Gordon, a Tennessee Democrat on the House Science Committee, said the plan is coming at a time when the nation is facing significant budgetary challenges, with U.S. government commitments to the Iraq war and recovery from Hurricane Katrina.
To get astronauts back to the moon, one team of designers has envisioned an Apollo-style capsule sitting atop rockets fashioned from shuttle components, including the shuttle's massive external tank and solid rocket boosters. There will be a separate space vehicle to carry only cargo.
In January 2004, U.S. President George W. Bush unveiled his administration's plans to send Americans back to the moon by 2020 and eventually on to Mars. Enditem
Madferret
9-19-05, 11:58 AM
I've been to the moon a dozen times.
MadFerret..Still First in Space
bluemeanie
9-19-05, 12:07 PM
From 2020 down to 2018... Those NASA boys must be in high gear. Is suppose they want to get the trip in before gas prices get too high.
KB in Kelowna
9-19-05, 12:38 PM
Big news for 1963.
Big news for 1963.
KB you are SO cynical. :]
2018 - 2005 = 13
1969 - 13 = 1956
Big news for 1956.
charlio lemieux
9-19-05, 1:05 PM
Going to the moon? :toast: :band: :jazz: :dance: :gulppint: :boogie:
Wait a minute.
We've already been to the moon.
What the hell is the big deal. Is there oil on the moon? Any WMD's?
Oh the Chinese want to go there, and we need to already have established a foot hold, just in case they find something we missed. Yes I see it now, Fort Armstrong, the first lunar military base. :doh: How could we have forgot to put a military base on the moon? ;) :D
Wait a minute.
We've already been to the moon.
What the hell is the big deal. Is there oil on the moon? Any WMD's?
Oh the Chinese want to go there, and we need to already have established a foot hold, just in case they find something we missed. Yes I see it now, Fort Armstrong, the first lunar military base. :doh: How could we have forgot to put a military base on the moon? ;) :D
Shhh Lunar oil is supposed to be a secret. I hear they are sending Hans Blix up there too look for the WMD.
TimmyTabasco
9-19-05, 5:55 PM
Alright, not sure if this is a joke. If so, excuse the rant :nod:
Going to the moon..hmmm...
Alright. What about putting that money into Global Warming, or aid to africa?? :confused: :cry:
Boggles my mind, thats for sure
Alright, not sure if this is a joke. If so, excuse the rant :nod:
Going to the moon..hmmm...
Alright. What about putting that money into Global Warming, or aid to africa?? :confused: :cry:
Boggles my mind, thats for sureYour two options are too practical and would make life better for the entire world. Better to blow money on taking a trip to the same place twice so the US can toot its own horn and show how great it is while at the same time it is borrowing money to pay for the war in Iraq. :rolleyes:
By the time 2018 rolls around, two more presidential elections will have occurred, hopefully with a more sane and intelligent president winning.
Alright, not sure if this is a joke. If so, excuse the rant :nod:
Going to the moon..hmmm...
Alright. What about putting that money into Global Warming, or aid to africa?? :confused: :cry:
Boggles my mind, thats for sure
It is no joke
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050919/w091952.html
I agree it is a total waste of money though.
A ... waste? Come on. How many nations have gone to the moon... and then gone there again 49 years later... using 46 year old scrap parts and only $120 billion?
A ... waste? Come on. How many nations have gone to the moon... and then gone there again 49 years later... using 46 year old scrap parts and only $120 billion?
I suppose it is a good thing if you want to get into the Guinness Book of World Recors, under most expensive use of scrap parts.
Leafs_Fa_Life
9-19-05, 8:28 PM
I agree it is a total waste of money though.
Definitely a waste of money. We should be going to Mars, b****es :nod:
Going to the moon? There's a first time for everything.
slapshot™
9-19-05, 9:28 PM
What about putting that money into Global Warming, or aid to africa?? http://hockeystation.com/images/smilies/confused.gif http://hockeystation.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
Exploring new worlds is something that mankind has done since time immemorial. We've been exploring the world since the bronze age, through the industrial age and well into the so-called information age. People have been starving since mankind has been able to walk upright and the world's climate has been changing and evolving ages regardless if it is manmade or a product of the environment itself.
I'm not saying, to hell with the starving and sick people of the world and ignore what we as humans are doing to the environment; but rather, why can't we still explore at the same time whilst paying lip service (as is the status quo) to these other global calamities?
On a smaller scale, TT - public money in your community funds ball parks, hockey rinks and recreational facilities. On the other hand there is an amount that is allocated to the Food Bank or the Women's Shelter, etc. What you're suggesting (based on your logic) that these areas must be addressed before the park or rink can be built.
By the time 2018 rolls around, two more presidential elections will have occurred, hopefully with a more sane and intelligent president winning.
In the '60's JFK had a vision. I wonder how many people poo-pooed it back then such as you are doing now.
Space travel is expensive.
I wonder how many people back in the day whined about the cost of Leif Ericson's voyage or Columbus' many trips.
I wonder how many people back in the day whined about the cost of Leif Ericson's voyage or Columbus' many trips.
Or Tom Cruise.
http://www.caribbean-boat-charters.com/motoryachts/LazyZ/images/LazyZ.jpg
leaferfan87
9-20-05, 12:22 AM
Or Tom Cruise.
http://www.caribbean-boat-charters.com/motoryachts/LazyZ/images/LazyZ.jpg
Damn I want that boat!
TimmyTabasco
9-20-05, 5:04 PM
I'm not saying, to hell with the starving and sick people of the world and ignore what we as humans are doing to the environment; but rather, why can't we still explore at the same time whilst paying lip service (as is the status quo) to these other global calamities?
True Slappy, I see what your saying. A bit of both worlds.
BUT, I honestly think we need to take care of our own, before we go off trying to explore.
These global calamities are very important, and can be solved. It takes money, programs, and leadership..and it can be done.
Children die from hunger everyday, and IMO..that is not acceptable
True Slappy, I see what your saying. A bit of both worlds.
BUT, I honestly think we need to take care of our own, before we go off trying to explore.
These global calamities are very important, and can be solved. It takes money, programs, and leadership..and it can be done.
Children die from hunger everyday, and IMO..that is not acceptable
As much as I find space exploration exciting, I have to agree that it is very expensive and is taking money from much more deserving causes.
slapshot™
9-20-05, 6:26 PM
As much as I find space exploration exciting, I have to agree that it is very expensive and is taking money from much more deserving causes.
Really?
On a different level....how much money have you spent on cigarettes and or booze over the past year and does it exceed what you've contributed in the way of pledges/donations to worthy causes?
I'm not singling you out, Sue. I'm just illustrating a point.
People are quick to denounce certain activities or they are at the ready to proclaim, "do what I say, not what I do" when in reality it is simply not achievable.
Another example is the tree-huggers. Many of their ideas are accessable on the 'net. The reality of it is...if they are really so concerned about the environment why do they even OWN a computer. Manufactured with plastics that were produced with chemicals that apparently harm the environment and built in 3rd world countries where the labour laws are far from favourable. AAAARRRGGGG!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway....I've rambled on long enough.
Really?
On a different level....how much money have you spent on cigarettes and or booze over the past year and does it exceed what you've contributed in the way of pledges/donations to worthy causes?
I'm not singling you out, Sue. I'm just illustrating a point.
Actually the $ value of my charitable work is far more than I spend on cigs and booze combined. I do at least 20 hours a week for charity. If I was being paid min wage It would come to approx. $140.00 per week. No way do I spend that amount on ciggies and booze. sorry picked the wrong person. I put my money/time where my mouth is.
bluemeanie
9-21-05, 10:57 AM
Well, you're a minority there A4l. Most people spend much more on personal vises, hobbies or creature comforts then they contribute to any charity. But, I'm not exactly sure were this particular analogy is going... although I do agree with Slappy. Space exploration is a necessity, not only for the possible preservation of humanity, but to provide us with a better understanding of who we are and how we got here and maybe how we can save our selves. It's ridiculous to suggest that we should be dumping that money in to feeding the starving or the less fortunate around our over populated globe. Where does it end? Feed this million with space money, feed the next million with military money, the next million with urban development money... and so on and so forth. Before you know it, the whole world is a Detroit... run down and over populated with fat people... no offense Detroit... your Red Wings rock! For every person that we liberate or "save" another three go hungry or become oppressed in some way. You people don't seem to understand just how much our cynical self-serving ways are destroying this planet. We reap the resources, destroy the atmosphere, poison the waters, eliminate species on DAILY basis, over populate cities making work and education nearly impossible to provide, disease and famine from over population.... and STILL you have people, crying that we don't do enough to feed the hungry...Why?? To prolong their directionless, painful lives? To create larger populations? More disease? Economic chaos???
I give to charity. My money goes to saving this planet from people... not the other way around. And if NASA, needed my money... I'd give it to them to. Because, I actually do value humanity, and I would sleep easier at night knowing that we might have a place to go to after we're finished destroying this one.
That may all come off as a little bleak sure, but hey... just look around man.
Max Power
9-21-05, 11:14 AM
Good one Blue and I agree
I love the idea of space exploration with it coming the expansion humans understanding and grasp of our world. Space exploration and the eventual discovery of new worlds could potentially change everything, as we know it. If our world could band in a way that our goals would be united and our resources shared not fought over this world would be a much better place. The idea of coming together with a shared dream would make everything else so meaningless. Unfortunately power and religion with race has segregated or world and this reversal is no where near
bluemeanie
9-21-05, 11:37 AM
Good one Blue and I agree
I love the idea of space exploration with it coming the expansion humans understanding and grasp of our world. Space exploration and the eventual discovery of new worlds could potentially change everything, as we know it. If our world could band in a way that our goals would be united and our resources shared not fought over this world would be a much better place. The idea of coming together with a shared dream would make everything else so meaningless. Unfortunately power and religion with race has segregated or world and this reversal is no where near
Exactly... plus we should really be thinking about expanding our meal options, and who knows what crazy and yummy creatures might await us out there...
charlio lemieux
9-21-05, 11:40 AM
Exactly... plus we should really be thinking about expanding our meal options, and who knows what crazy and yummy creatures might await us out there...
Mmmmm Tribbles!!
Excuse me for being a cynic but in my lifetime, man has gone into space, landed on the moon, set out communications satelites and numerous spy satelites. Don't forget that one particular country wants to build a protective shield over their nation using satelites in space.
I am not sure that all of the applications will be friendly ones.
slapshot™
9-21-05, 1:25 PM
Excuse me for being a cynic but in my lifetime, man has gone into space, landed on the moon, set out communications satelites and numerous spy satelites. Don't forget that one particular country wants to build a protective shield over their nation using satelites in space.
I am not sure that all of the applications will be friendly ones.
You're excused.
From 2020 down to 2018... Those NASA boys must be in high gear. Is suppose they want to get the trip in before gas prices get too high.
:rollover2
Might as well double the $100 billion trip and make this a $200 billion trip and go to Jupiter!
Cheers
Max Power
9-21-05, 1:32 PM
Excuse me for being a cynic but in my lifetime, man has gone into space, landed on the moon, set out communications satelites and numerous spy satelites. Don't forget that one particular country wants to build a protective shield over their nation using satelites in space.
I am not sure that all of the applications will be friendly ones.
Well that's one of the biggest problems is because the people in power have been more concerned with dominating this world rather then exploring its posibilaties
Deep Thoughts
"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And
I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it. "
=]
bluemeanie
9-21-05, 1:32 PM
Excuse me for being a cynic but in my lifetime, man has gone into space, landed on the moon, set out communications satelites and numerous spy satelites. Don't forget that one particular country wants to build a protective shield over their nation using satelites in space.
I am not sure that all of the applications will be friendly ones.
Satellite money comes from private sectors, and Defense systems are Military cash for the most part. Since when has any large government funded project or human exploration been entirely 'friendly' or without ulterior motives? Hey, we don't live in Disneyland here... and tossing science out the window to fund Human expansion isn't going to make everything all Mickey Mouse either.
Foresight.
slapshot™
9-21-05, 1:39 PM
Hey, we don't live in Disneyland here...
Foresight.
Hindsight.
Disney already has dibs on the moon (as this photo illustrates).
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jlspence/tmastron.jpg
and tossing science out the window to fund Human expansion isn't going to make everything all Mickey Mouse either.
Foresight.
Feeding the poor, educating the ones without schools, and housing the homeless isn't human expansion.
bluemeanie
9-21-05, 2:05 PM
Feeding the poor, educating the ones without schools, and housing the homeless isn't human expansion.
Well it can be considered that, yes. But, that's not my focus here.
I'm not proposing that humanitarian efforts be ceased and have the funding re-directed into building me a ranch on Mars... I'm saying, that scientific space exploration and research deserves financial support. You obviously disagree. If we could feed and house everyone on the planet, life expectancy would increase. People will have more time to bare more children and eventually generations will overlap like never before. It?s a lovely idea, but it?s not going to happen, space exploration or not. Nature provides us with plagues, diseases and natural disasters for a reason? it?s the Collective Bargaining Agreement of life? Earth needs a population cap. Sucks, huh?
TimmyTabasco
9-21-05, 2:07 PM
Feeding the poor, educating the ones without schools, and housing the homeless isn't human expansion.
Well said ak47 :thumb:
TimmyTabasco
9-21-05, 2:09 PM
If we could feed and house everyone on the planet
This is a human right, at birth
No argument should even be needed for such a fact
bluemeanie
9-21-05, 2:25 PM
This is a human right, at birth
No argument should even be needed for such a fact
A human right? You forget your self TT... you are an animal of this planet. Your right to shelter and food is no greater or less then a chickens. Animals, work to survive off of this planet and they do it without destroying it... when a species does harm to it... the planet reacts. Life is adjusted. Life goes on. It is mans unwillingness to except that life is larger then him, that provides him with this mentality that humans have the right to whatever they want or need at any cost. You can go around the planet in your white suit and lick the wounds of suffering people or projectile vomit into the mouths of starving babies... but, life will eventually find a way to slow your efforts. It's a flood waiting to happen no matter how much gum you stick to the dyke.
Max Power
9-21-05, 2:33 PM
This is a human right, at birth
No argument should even be needed for such a fact
It's called survival of the fittest, the food chain and Mother Nature doing as it always has. This planet is not capable of withstanding the number of humans it already has let alone if we roofed and fed all humans. In a twisted way we are no different then the pack of gazelles. The weakest always falls pray. The difference is we are our own destructor
TimmyTabasco
9-21-05, 2:50 PM
A human right? You forget your self TT... you are an animal of this planet. Your right to shelter and food is no greater or less then a chickens. Animals, work to survive off of this planet and they do it without destroying it... when a species does harm to it... the planet reacts. Life is adjusted. Life goes on. It is mans unwillingness to except that life is larger then him, that provides him with this mentality that humans have the right to whatever they want or need at any cost. You can go around the planet in your white suit and lick the wounds of suffering people or projectile vomit into the mouths of starving babies... but, life will eventually find a way to slow your efforts. It's a flood waiting to happen no matter how much gum you stick to the dyke.
Yes, I do think it is a human right. That each and every human on this earth..deserves shelter, and food. It doesn't matter if life will find a way to slow efforts. What matters is people are taken care of.
We as a people should look after the other more so than we do. But thats just my belief.
We've had this discussion on another forum, at a different time. We didn't agree then, and I don't see us doing so this time.
So lets just agree, to disagree :nod:
Don't forget that education and better chance of survival lead to having fewer offspring.
Exploring space is exciting but not totally necessary.
The decision is akin to deciding whether to buy food for the family or take a vacation to an unknown area.
charlio lemieux
9-21-05, 2:55 PM
Don't forget that education and better chance of survival lead to having fewer offspring.
Exploring space is exciting but not totally necessary.
The decision is akin to deciding whether to buy food for the family or take a vacation to an unknown area.
:laughing: :laughing: It's funny 'cause it's true.
TimmyTabasco
9-21-05, 2:55 PM
It's called survival of the fittest, the food chain and Mother Nature doing as it always has. This planet is not capable of withstanding the number of humans it already has let alone if we roofed and fed all humans. In a twisted way we are no different then the pack of gazelles. The weakest always falls pray. The difference is we are our own destructor
Its not called surival of the fittest. Its called opportunities
You and I were both born into families, who live in the western world..
In the western world we have vast opportunities.
However, if I was born into a family..in lets say africa..those opportunities would not be as vast..they would be limited
I agree that the space program is a very expensive one, but I truly think it is a necessity. We, as a race of sentient beings, are always looking for new things, new places to explore, and maybe even new places to live. I know that there are millions of people around the world suffering from hunger, homelessness, and disease. If it was realistic for us to spend billions of dollars a year to feed all these people, provide them with shelter, and give them proper medical attention, I'd be all for it. The fact of the matter is though with literally billions of people spread all over the planet, it's not realistic. Consider the costs of buying the food and medical supplies, of organizing the thousands involved, and of actually getting these supplies to remote areas. It's astronomical (no pun intended).
Also, isn't it in a way sticking our nose into everybody's business? It's sad, but some of these countries wouldn't welcome those trying to help, they'd see it as "the West invading our country". Yes, it would be for a good cause, but not everybody would see it the same way.
One reason that I think the space program is worth it is that it does provide some bit of hope. Hope that there is another place out there for us to live, possibly a better one than the world we've so effectively screwed up. I'm sure at times in the past, people have asked "Why are we spending so much time and money on this?". What would have happened if thousands of years ago scientists just gave up studying medicine, gave up studying cures to diseases, gave up working on ways for people to instantaneously communicate? What would have happened if people had looked at the Internet and said, "Why do we need this, why should we waste millions of dollars on this?".
Maybe I'm just an idealist, but I view space exploration as an advancement of the human race. It's a way for us to leave our mark on the universe long after we're gone.
By the way, I just studied Philosophy for 3 hours, so maybe that's where all the "deep thoughts" are coming from.:laughing:
Giving someone a helping hand is NOT interfering. As for finding another place to live, that won't happen any time in the near future. Distances in space are far too great for that.
To my way of thinking attacking real problems is far more benificial than attacking the "just in case" problems.
I say concentrate on the here and now and put the fancy plans on the back burner until we are better able to execute them.
Max Power
9-21-05, 3:18 PM
Its not called surival of the fittest. Its called opportunitiesYou and I were both born into families, who live in the western world..In the western world we have vast opportunities.
However, if I was born into a family..in lets say africa..those opportunities would not be as vast..they would be limited
IMO it is
If we are not smart enough to stop procreating when we know we can't feed or provide for our children then Mother Nature will come in and do her job. I'm extremely hesitant on having children because the world we live in and it's future and I live in arguably the best country in the world. I can't imagine what someone who can barely feed themselves is thinking.
I understand your point and I think it?s a noble cause but one that will end badly either way
Max Power
9-21-05, 3:23 PM
One reason that I think the space program is worth it is that it does provide some bit of hope. Hope that there is another place out there for us to live, possibly a better one than the world we've so effectively screwed up. I'm sure at times in the past, people have asked "Why are we spending so much time and money on this?". What would have happened if thousands of years ago scientists just gave up studying medicine, gave up studying cures to diseases, gave up working on ways for people to instantaneously communicate? What would have happened if people had looked at the Internet and said, "Why do we need this, why should we waste millions of dollars on this?".
You're absaloutly right
Everyone in the world believed it was flat at one time. When the Americas was discovered and the world was known to be round our civilizations entered a new era of science and discovery. As humans we need to continuously expend scientifically or we will be our own demise
Giving someone a helping hand is NOT interfering.
We may see it that way, but not everybody does. There are those that would say certain countries have tried to "lend a helping hand" in the past, and others have looked at is as sticking their noses into somebody else's business.
To my way of thinking attacking real problems is far more benificial than attacking the "just in case" problems.
I say concentrate on the here and now and put the fancy plans on the back burner until we are better able to execute them.
Yes, but the point I was trying to make is that if we concentrate only on the here and now, how are we ever going to advance as a species? I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't concentrate on finding "real answers to real problems", but that we should also continue to look to the future. Saying that the space program is a complete waste of time and money is ridiculous IMO. It would be nice if it didn't cost so much, but scientific advancement isn't cheap.
The thing about it is that there really isn't a right or wrong answer to this subject. The space program has as many positives as negatives, as does scrapping the entire thing and focusing on other problems. It's an interesting discussion though.:)
Don't get me wrong, I have been a space junkie since Laika was launched in 1957. I remeber how upset I was when I learned that she would die in space as they had no way of bringing her back to earth. It illustrated the lengths that "man" will go to in order to "learn" WHy find another planrt to destroy when we can't look after this one.
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