Oilers Smyth would be a good fit for the Flyers

[swflyers25]

By Tim Panaccio

Inquirer Columnist

Ryan Smyth wants a three-year deal to remain with Edmonton.

The Flyers want to lose a center and gain a winger - and Michal Handzus figures to be the odd man out if the Flyers trade another center.

Such a deal would make sense.

General manager Bob Clarke has long coveted Smyth, who has yet to sign his one-year qualifying offer of $2.7 million. Handzus will earn $2.1 million this season and next.

Handzus' salary fits better into the Oilers' payroll scheme; the club is trying to lose salary since signing Chris Pronger to a five-year, $31.2 million contract and then adding Michael Peca, who will earn $3.9 million this season.

According to the Edmonton Journal, Smyth wants a deal that averages $4 million. He won't get that from Oilers GM Kevin Lowe, but he could get it from Clarke next year.

Either way, this deal makes sense for the Flyers, even though it means adding to the payroll, which stands at $37.1 million. The Flyers would pick up just $600,000 - if the team could persuade Smyth to take the one-year qualifier with a promise of a long-term deal.

It likely would take more than Handzus to complete the deal, but not a lot more.

"Ryan has spent his whole career there in the midst of the club downsizing," one NHL scout said. "Now they've done something in the off-season to actually help him out. It should be interesting to see how he handles that."

Smyth would give the Flyers an offensive push and much needed grit on the wing. It's no coincidence Smyth was on Team Canada's World Championship roster and likely will make the Olympic cut, as well. He's leadership material.

Plus, he would look good in orange and black.

An awkward situation

Highly touted youngsters Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby both are property of the Penguins but while Crosby is already in Pittsburgh, Malkin remains in Russia - much to the Penguins' disappointment - to get more experience.

The bigger reason, though, is that the Russians refused to sign the transfer agreement that allows players to leave permanently for the NHL.

Pat Brisson, one of the most respected agents in hockey, represents both players and has landed in an awkward situation because Crosby benefits by Malkin's absence. That's not Brisson's fault, but it's reality.

For Malkin's staying in Russia actually strengthens Crosby's ability to go unchallenged - at least among the Penguins - for the Calder Trophy as rookie of the year.

If Crosby and Malkin played together this season, it's entirely possible they'd cancel each other out in the Calder race.

As for the roadblock, credit the Penguins for refusing to negotiate Malkin's contract release individually, which is what the Russian Hockey League wants.

Penguins GM Craig Patrick never would be party to blackmail, which is what the Russian Hockey League now is trying to do across the board with players.

Hockey enforcers

The next time a Canadian hockey purist berates an American about the thugs in the NHL and points to Donald Brashear of the Flyers, remind them of last week's "Battle of Hockey Enforcers," a trash sporting event of the lowest common denominator that took place in Prince George, British Columbia. People paid between $35 and $200 to watch minor-leaguers and professional wannabes slug it out on the ice. Others paid $24.95 on pay-per-view. Dean Mayrand, 27, from Windsor, Ontario, won the $62,000 grand prize as the last man standing. This is exactly the kind of goonery hockey doesn't need. That it took place in Canada is even more disgusting. Fortunately, it didn't take place at the Wachovia Center or Flyers fans would never hear the end of it in chat rooms.

Quotable

Mike Ricci, talking to the Associated Press about how he never liked new teammate Shane Doan as an opponent when Ricci played in San Jose. Now that the two are together in Phoenix? "Now that I've met him? You know, you take away his skills and the way he plays, his tenacity and all that and his leadership, he's a very good guy. I feel bad that I hated him so much the last few years."

Inky (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/hockey/nhl/12554044.htm)

[PDO]

Of course he'd be a great fit for Philly, name a single team in the NHL he's not a great fit for. Edmonton has about 6 million left in the budget, why would we trade our best forward for a player who's not as good?

[MadDevil]

Only way I'd see the Oilers considering this would be if they got Simon Gagne in return, and I don't think Clarke will part with him (although like every GM, he's made some boneheaded deals in the past).

[swflyers25]

Of course he'd be a great fit for Philly, name a single team in the NHL he's not a great fit for. Edmonton has about 6 million left in the budget, why would we trade our best forward for a player who's not as good?

Michal Handzus -- 82g 20g 38a 58pts +18
Ryan Smyth -- 82g 23g 36a 59pts +11

Same amount of points, stats look the same. :slant:

[PDO]

Michal Handzus -- 82g 20g 38a 58pts +18
Ryan Smyth -- 82g 23g 36a 59pts +11

Same amount of points, stats look the same. :slant:

Yeah, it's not like Smyth played out of position for 2 months, followed by spending the rest of the season playing with Horcoff and Pisani against the Peter Forsbergs and Markus Naslunds of the league :rolleyes:

[swflyers25]

Yeah, it's not like Smyth played out of position for 2 months, followed by spending the rest of the season playing with Horcoff and Pisani against the Peter Forsbergs and Markus Naslunds of the league :rolleyes:

A pick and Zeus for Smyth would work.

[PDO]

A pick and Zeus for Smyth would work.

No, it wouldn't.

[PDO]

Smyth won't be dealt for a deal circling Handzus. If Smyth leaves, Gagne (who is a downgrade from Smyth, mind you) Pitkanen or Carter is coming the other way. The Oilers won't be dealing their best forward for a downgrade, period.

BTW, want a scoring winger?

Torres + a 2nd for Zeus.

Cheap, versataile, "Bobby Clarke" player who can pot 20 goals and add another 20 assists while hitting anything that moves.

[swflyers25]

If Smyth leaves, Gagne (who is a downgrade from Smyth, mind you)

Remind me, who is playing on the top line with Thornton and Nash? His name isn't Ryan Smyth. Who was one of the players on the top line with Iginla and Sakic at the 02 Olympics, it wasn't Ryan Smyth. :rolleyes:

[PDO]

Remind me, who is playing on the top line with Thornton and Nash? His name isn't Ryan Smyth. Who was one of the players on the top line with Iginla and Sakic at the 02 Olympics, it wasn't Ryan Smyth. :rolleyes:

I think a pylon would look good playing with Thornton and Nash. Also, who's wearing the C?

Smyth at the World Cup: 6gp 3 G 1 A 4 P
Gagne at the World Cup: 6GP 1 G 1 A 2 P

Whoops.

Please, Smyth is one of the most experienced international players Canada has ever had and is quite simply a better hockey player than Simon Gagne. You want to make this Smyth versus Gagne, you can try; but good luck... you'll need it.

[swflyers25]

I think a pylon would look good playing with Thornton and Nash. Also, who's wearing the C?

Smyth at the World Cup: 6gp 3 G 1 A 4 P
Gagne at the World Cup: 6GP 1 G 1 A 2 P

Whoops.

Please, Smyth is one of the most experienced international players Canada has ever had and is quite simply a better hockey player than Simon Gagne. You want to make this Smyth versus Gagne, you can try; but good luck... you'll need it.

I don't have to. The Team Canada coaches do it for me. If Smyth was such an offensive dynamo he would be on one of the top lines, he isn't. Gagne is. Wonder why.

And comparing Gagne to a pylon..right:

The world championship trio of Joe Thornton, Rick Nash and Simon Gagne was on fire all week, Thornton scoring a pair Friday in the final scrimmage. They're probably on the team.


f those guys make it, the list of those left out includes such stars as Ryan Smyth, Dany Heatley, Patrick Marleau, Brenden Morrow, Alex Tanguay and Brendan Morrison.

:eek: Gee, look who may be left off the Olympics roster... :rolleyes:

TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/news_story.asp?id=133973)

[The Insider]

Deal makes no sense, if Smyth does get traded, it'll be for a 1st to 2nd line player and a first rounder. Handzus is hardly a 1st or 2nd liner and if he is, it's on a bad team like Washington or Columbus. I think the only fair player going the other way would be Gagne. Otherwise I see Lowe going somewhere else.

[swflyers25]

I forgot, you guys decide who is 1st, 2nd line and so on. When is your hockey encyclopedia coming out? I can't wait to get my hands on it.

[PDO]

I don't have to. The Team Canada coaches do it for me. If Smyth was such an offensive dynamo he would be on one of the top lines, he isn't. Gagne is. Wonder why.

And comparing Gagne to a pylon..right:

The world championship trio of Joe Thornton, Rick Nash and Simon Gagne was on fire all week, Thornton scoring a pair Friday in the final scrimmage. They're probably on the team.


f those guys make it, the list of those left out includes such stars as Ryan Smyth, Dany Heatley, Patrick Marleau, Brenden Morrow, Alex Tanguay and Brendan Morrison.

:eek: Gee, look who may be left off the Olympics roster... :rolleyes:

TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/news_story.asp?id=133973)

Where did I call Smyth an offensive dynamo? Find the quote please, or stop misquoting me and making things up. I also didn't say Gagne was a pylon, I simply said saying somebody looks good with Thornton and Nash is like saying that Eliasha Cuthbert is sexy. Wow, thank you Captain Obvious! Want to use something just a TAD more valuable?

Finally, that TSN article messed up on several lines. How about, instead of using someone elses opinion (not that a reporters opinion is worth much.. in many cases I know several people at this board whose opinion I'd take over theirs) you give me some solid reasons of your own why Gagne is a better player than Smyth. Slightly better than Smyth offensively? Possible, but I've never seen Gagne flirt with 40 goals. A better skater? Definetly. Better defensively? Not a hope. Better leader? Nope. Better physically? I think my mom could throw a better check than Gagne.

So.. a slightly better skater who may be slightly better offensively, or a guy who's miles ahead in leadesrhip and defensive ability and is more physical to boot.

[PDO]

I forgot, you guys decide who is 1st, 2nd line and so on. When is your hockey encyclopedia coming out? I can't wait to get my hands on it.

As I said before, guys like Mark Spector are writing articles. Doesn't mean he actually knows what he's talking about.

Kelly Hrudey was convinced that Hannan shut down Peter Forsberg last spring. When looking at the shift charts, it became obvious that he spent far more time on the ice against Joe Sakic than Peter Forsberg.

[swflyers25]

but I've never seen Gagne flirt with 40 goals.

33 isn't close enough to 40? Ok. :rolleyes:

Better defensively? Not a hope

Oh, I think there is a hope.

Better leader? Nope. Better physically? I think my mom could throw a better check than Gagne.

Gagne has been in the league half the amount of time that Smyth has. He's not going to be an assistant captain over guys like Recchi and Leclair. Unless you are in the locker room with Gagne, you know squat about his leadership qualities.

He is an offensive minded of player yet he played most of the recent season on Keith Primeau's checking line and got more goals than Smyth did. He has greatly improved his defense. He is a faster skater which you did admit. He has great vision on the ice, great hands, bats pucks out of the air and into the net. He isn't Mr. Physicality but he has improved his physical game.

Sure, he can't check:
Gagne (http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/sightsound/highlights/media/040303%5C1667.rm)

[PDO]

33 isn't close enough to 40? Ok. :rolleyes:

So 13 is close to 20? 23 is close to 30? I guess by your logic Hemsky is already a lock for 70 points this season. He was kinda close!

Oh, I think there is a hope.

Smyth is one of the best 5x5 players in the entire league. That's not a shot at Gagne, and unless you can provide some stats to prove otherwise, you can't prove anything.

Gagne has been in the league half the amount of time that Smyth has. He's not going to be an assistant captain over guys like Recchi and Leclair. Unless you are in the locker room with Gagne, you know squat about his leadership qualities.

Contradicting yourself? First he's too young to be a leader, then he's not a leader because older, better players were the leaders? Then you say you don't know? How about this, maybe somebody knows, and that's why Smyth has worn the C for Canada several times?

He is an offensive minded of player yet he played most of the recent season on Keith Primeau's checking line and got more goals than Smyth did. He has greatly improved his defense. He is a faster skater which you did admit. He has great vision on the ice, great hands, bats pucks out of the air and into the net. He isn't Mr. Physicality but he has improved his physical game.

So, Smyth isn't an offensive minded player? He played with Horcoff and Pisani. Linemates are a wash here, if not more favoured to Gagne, because he played much easier minutes than Smyth, and got to play on a lethal Philly PP. He can bat pucks out of the air and into the net?! Wow! I mean, it's not like Smyth is considered to be one of the best players in front of the net in the entire league.

Sure, he can't check:
Gagne (http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/sightsound/highlights/media/040303%5C1667.rm)

Holy crap! I mean, one hit, on the stickman Legwand? Man, I sure wish I could find video's of players doing something once so that I could make outlandish comments that they were something they weren't based on one play!

[swflyers25]

So 13 is close to 20? 23 is close to 30? I guess by your logic Hemsky is already a lock for 70 points this season. He was kinda close!

Getting 33 is a good indication that you can get 40. It means you are a goal scorer or didn't you know that?

Smyth is one of the best 5x5 players in the entire league. That's not a shot at Gagne, and unless you can provide some stats to prove otherwise, you can't prove anything.

Your stats please.

Contradicting yourself? First he's too young to be a leader, then he's not a leader because older, better players were the leaders?

Saying that he isn't going to be an assistant captain over Recchi and Leclair doesn't mean he doesn't have leadership qualities. Those 2 have been in the league for a long time. Smyth wouldn't have been an assistant captain on our team. Gagne started playing in 99 after Recchi and Leclair had already been on the team for a few years. He wasn't going to get the A over them. He's going to get the A this year. His coach must think he has leadership qualities to do this.

So, Smyth isn't an offensive minded player?

No, I said Gagne is an offensive minded player. Even playing on a checking line he had 24 goals. Usually checking line players don't get those type of goals.

if not more favoured to Gagne,

Primeau and Kapanen, not really offensive minded guys anymore.

Wow! I mean, it's not like Smyth is considered to be one of the best players in front of the net in the entire league.

No offense, but when I think of guys who are great in front of the net, guys like Bertuzzi come to mind, Rick Nash, not really Smyth.

Also, you tell me don't post TSN's take on something, yet you say he is considered one of the best guys in front of the net. Why not give your opinion and not someone else's. :rolleyes:

Holy crap! I mean, one hit, on the stickman Legwand?

Gee, I forgot, if I don't have more than 1 example of proving you wrong, it's means whatever I say is wrong and whatever you say is the truth.

Let's just end it here. I'll take Gagne, you take Smyth and Team Canada will take Gagne as well, not Smyth. Maybe he can be top dog in the World Championships while Gagne is still playing in the playoffs, ok?

[MadDevil]

Quite honestly, anybody who believes Gagne is as good a player as Smyth right now needs to take off the rose-colored glasses. Gagne may one day be as good of a player as Smyth, but I'd take the whole package of Ryan Smyth (offense, defense, physical play, leadership) over Gagne's any day of the week. Just my unbiased opinion.:)

[PDO]

Hope you're up for some reading.

First off, outscoring. You don't win games by scoring goals, you win games by scoring more goals than the other team. Smyth has consistently been one of the best outscorers in the NHL over the past 5 seasons.

http://oilfans.com/article.php?id=NEWS-2005-08-24

You'll have to read that article and comprehend it for beginners. The article observes the importance of outscoring and how it correlates to winning; which of course is the ultimate goal for any hockey team, and something that Ryan Smyth is extremely effective at.

Due to NHL.com no longer having the shift charts from 03-04 up, I'm digging up some old stats, but I'm sure someone with your hockey knowledge will be able to appreciate what these statistics mean.

PLAYER EV+/-

SMITH 27 8
BREWER 24 -14
STAIOS 23 16
SMYTH 22 12
HORCOFF 20 -1
DVORAK 14 16
YORK 12 18
PISANI 10 13
TORRES 6 15
ISBISTER 6 1
ULANOV 6 19
CROSS 5 6
STOLL 4 5
SEMENOV 2 8
LARAQUE -2 9
CHIMERA -3 -1
HEMSKY -3 -4
MOREAU -5 1
FERGY -13 -4
BERGY -22 17
OATES -32 2

These numbers are from Igor at HFboards.com.

http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1647386&postcount=1

This illustrates a few things, but for the purposes of this argument it shows that Ryan Smyth played the hardest minutes of any Oiler forward and had some of the best outscoring results to boot.

Interestingly enough (and sadly, I don't have the exact numbers), Gagne did play some very tough minutes in Philly last year. Coincidently, Primeau played some of the easiest (along with J.R.).

I'm going to have to request that you read this thread in it's entirity:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=100774

So, Gagne gets props in that reguards.. he's ridden like a rentded mule behind only Handzus in Flyer land, and Forsberg will surely make life easier for both of them. I'd also bet that with Forsberg coming in, everyone and their mother will be commenting on "How much better" Keith Primeau is this year. The guy is going to get pimped because of some butter soft minutes, you heard it here first.

Moving on, the next important test for a player is who makes his linemates better.

We need look no further than the young Ales Hemsky. Up until the February 12, 2004 he had played 54 games and was a -12. While playing with Smyth druing that same period? A +1. If that's not a stellar improvement, I'm not quite sure what is. Just for fun though, there's one more awesome stat that I'm going to introduce you to, and it's called even strength points per hour.


Ryan Smyth 2.17
Simon Gagne 1.86


Smyth outscored him at a VERY noticable rate 5x5 while playing tougher (albeit, not much, Gagne was ridden pretty hard in Philly, though not as hard as Smyth in Edmonton) minutes. If you really think a player who plays easier minutes and gets less results in better, then go right ahead thinking that, and I'll just wish you were the GM of a team so I could convince you that Tom Poti for Mike York is a good trade.

Finally, just ask Derain Hatcher about Ryan Smyth and parking his butt in front of the net. I'm sure he'll tell you what a pain in the rear he is, as will Marty Turco, Ed Belfour and Tomas Voukon, just to name a few guys who have mauled the guy while standing there. Rick Nash is one of the great guys in front of the net? :laughing: Rick Nash is a sniper.

[swflyers25]

Moving on. I ended the discussion. ;)

[MadDevil]

Moving on. I ended the discussion. ;)

How did you end the discussion? By saying so?:D

[PDO]

Moving on. I ended the discussion. ;)

Yup, thanks for admitting Smyth is the better player at this point and time, it takes a big person to admit that.

[swflyers25]

Yup, thanks for admitting Smyth is the better player at this point and time, it takes a big person to admit that.

Well, you can think that. I'll take Gagne, you take Smyth. I already said this.
He'll be playing come playoff time while Smyth is home once again. I think Smyth is on his way down. :)