View Full Version : This Forum is Killing The English Language
Have you noticed the huge number of spelling and grammar errors and the just plain bad usage of the language we experience on these forums.
A dull subject I know but the assault upon the English language goes on everywhere around us. TIME magazine used to be a paramount example of the excellent usage of the language, never a spelling error, never a comma out of place, but clearly their proof readers have all been fired as the magazine is now filled with errors.
You see examples all around, in advertising on TV and in the print media, Jay Leno delights in showing language errors on his Headlines segment.
One of the most common errors is the use of "you are" often incorrectly contracted to "your" instead of the correct "you're". The incorrect use of their and there is another all to common example of how poorly our language is being used. "My bad" is an all too common butchering of the language, bad is not a verb.
I suspect the language is faltering because our young people are so poorly schooled in this area. The entertainment industry loves to corrupt the language to be "cool and hip" and people desperately wanting to be part of the crowd (while insisting all along they are expressing their individuality) eagerly incorporate this grammatical garbage into their lexicon.
I for one would dearly love to hear any conversation that does not feature "like" as every second word and never uses "cool", "dude" and especially "d'oh".
For those who will say "dude, like, who the :curse: do you think your, d'oh get with it man, be cool", all I can say is :shrug:.
As for those who would :hammer: at me or :freeze: me out I can only add that emoticons are clearly part of the problem, an easy way out of thinking for one self and expressing one self clearly.
The advent of computer spell/grammar check programs have released us from the chore of making sure what we write is correct. When faced with an input medium such as this forum, with no spell/grammar check, our grammatical incompetency becomes glaring.
Bring back the three R's, readin', ritin' and 'rithmetic, before a whole generation becomes functionally illiterate.
Note: Posted to three forums I post too.
I have yet to see a grammar check that is accurate. Most of them are good for a laugh and that's all.
I have yet to see a grammar check that is accurate. Most of them are good for a laugh and that's all.
All the more reason for us to know not only what we are talking about, but how to say it properly.
I have yet to see a grammar check that is accurate. Most of them are good for a laugh and that's all.We don't need a spell and grammar check on the forum when we have JR the Spell and Grammar Czar ;)
Well the truth is, before these internets came along... Most people did not know how to type. I know I didn't. Instant communication happened through voice. Either on the phone or in person.
Now that e-mail and instant messaging has become just as common as voice communication, every body in the world must now type. Lots of people can't. I actually taught myself to type fairly well without looking some years ago when computers became my livelihood.
So a lot of people, especially young people make it ez'r 2 xprs themselves by shortening what they type. I don't like it (reading it) but there's no crime in it either. As for puncutation, I"m sure mine is not always perfect. At any rate, I try not to let punctuation distract me.
"My bad" is just slang used by those crazy kids, and later by adults after it's no longer cool. Nothing wrong w/ a little slang now is there?
fa-shizzle :nod: :groovy:
KB in Kelowna
8-28-05, 10:51 AM
Yo dog,s'up. I was chillin in my crib, chattin with my homies and I sees you dropped a bomb on us! What'up with dat? U know what I'm sayin? Why U be dissen? Gimme the 411 on this dude.
As I read this it does sound stupid, yet people persist in communicating like this because it has "street cred"? I work in post secondary education and academics tell stories of students who submit papers with incorrect language and text messsage symbols and wonder why they fail.
I have seen some of the post secondary papers that are full of txt and incorrect syntax. It's too bad that people don't take the time to write properly but this is a complaint heard about every generation.
<ridculous rants snipped>
OMG U ppl are dubm sKanky hoz
Have you noticed the huge number of spelling and grammar errors and the just plain bad usage of the language we experience on these forums.Where's the question mark? :D
Other than that it's a great post, Dave.
In the past, I've stressed my opinion on "Internet speak" and how I find it annoying that people are language impaired. The simple errors that you mentioned, such as "their, there, they're" and "your, you're" is mind-boggling how often people use the incorrect form. There are so many others to mention, it even makes me laugh.
Anyways, I have been asked not to correct people on this particular forum, so I haven't been a "Grammar Nazi" here at HockeyStation.com as much as I have at other forums I have posted at in the past.
Was that just a run-on sentence? :eek:
Congrats JR! You found a glaring error.
The best part is that the rules of grammar have changed since I left high shool, a zillion years ago. How is one to know?
Where's the question mark? :D
Other than that it's a great post, Dave.
Was that just a run-on sentence? :eek:
:laughing: I proof read that post 16 ways from Sunday because I just knew any mistake would sink me.
Madferret
8-28-05, 7:31 PM
Ok, before I submit any posts I will PM them to you first. You can then proof-read, return, and I'll submit...
Sound good?
http://www.sparkimg.com/emoticons/clap.gif
Well the truth is, before these internets came along... Most people did not know how to type....... Now that e-mail and instant messaging has become just as common as voice communication, every body in the world must now type. fa-shizzle :nod: :groovy:
Yes I'm sure that the disappearance of the typing pool and turning everyone into typists was an unintended effect of the internet. I'm sure if senior executives the world over had realised that they were destined to become typists the internet might never have been developed. :)
As for your slang comment I agree there is nothing wrong with it. Slang is a commonly accepted part of the language and eventually many slang words make it into the big Oxford dictionary. Now ain't that something!
However I'm not talking about slang, rather I'm talking about the incorrect use of the language and the atrocious spelling. KB's post is an excellent example of how the language is being bastardised because people either do not have the language skills they should in this "age of communication" or they prefer to be "cool" rather than correct when communicating.
Ok, before I submit any posts I will PM them to you first. You can then proof-read, return, and I'll submit...
Sound good?
http://www.sparkimg.com/emoticons/clap.gif
Hey MF are you talking to me or to JR?
(PS: I was so close to a perfect weekend, only 40 seconds and then the Riders blew it, damn :mad: )
Madferret
8-28-05, 7:43 PM
Hey MF are you talking to me or to JR?
(PS: I was so close to a perfect weekend, only 40 seconds and then the Riders blew it, damn :mad: )
I'm winding up both of you guys.. :)
Nice call on the Tabbies, they wrecked my perfect week. I thought all the duct-tape on the world couldn't help Danny Mac pull off a game like that..
:curse:
bluemeanie
8-29-05, 11:53 AM
I saw this movie this weekend that takes place in the future... it turns out that we all end up speaking the same amalgamated multi language language anyhow, so les mispel all dat du wantin.
I saw this movie this weekend that takes place in the future... it turns out that we all end up speaking the same amalgamated multi language language anyhow, so les mispel all dat du wantin.
That's a good point for not bothering to much about English because the language of all mankind is likley to end up being either Chinese or Hindi.
bluemeanie
8-29-05, 12:43 PM
That's a good point for not bothering to much about English because the language of all mankind is likley to end up being either Chinese or Hindi.
It wouldn't surprise me... I'm actually thinking about taking a coarse to learn a form of Chinese... For those of you living in the GTA you understand why I might think of it as an eventual necessity. Regardless, English is definitely a language on the decline - still very safe on the international stage, but definitely on the decline. I think that any hopes of preserving it will go unfulfilled. English is constantly changing, some might say ?degrading?, others will say "adapting", but either way, the language is very different today then it was a few hundred years ago, and as time marches on the language will again one day be very different. Even in Germany, where there is huge number of traditionalists that fought to preserve the very old language, lost to a new law slated to change many of the basic rules of the language and their spelling techniques. Well, I guess that by the time I?m old enough to be pissed off about all the grammatical errors that younger generations make, my hearing will probably be shot anyhow.
Max Power
8-29-05, 12:50 PM
It wouldn't surprise me... I'm actually thinking about taking a coarse to learn a form of Chinese... For those of you living in the GTA you understand why I might think of it as an eventual necessity. Regardless, English is definitely a language on the decline - still very safe on the international stage, but definitely on the decline. I think that any hopes of preserving it will go unfulfilled. English is constantly changing, some might say ?degrading?, others will say "adapting", but either way, the language is very different today then it was a few hundred years ago, and as time marches on the language will again one day be very different. Even in Germany, where there is huge number of traditionalists that fought to preserve the very old language, lost to a new law slated to change many of the basic rules of the language and their spelling techniques. Well, I guess that by the time I?m old enough to be pissed off about all the grammatical errors that younger generations make, my hearing will probably be shot anyhow.
What you've just said reminds me of this joke so I had to post it
The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been
reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European
communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, the British government conceded that English
spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased
plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).
In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly,
sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be
replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters
kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the
troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like
"fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.
In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to
reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments
will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a
deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of
silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th"
by "z" and "w" by " v".
During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining
"ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of
leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor
trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze
drem vil finali kum tru.
charlio lemieux
8-29-05, 2:23 PM
English is a bunch of BS with your commas and periods in the right place. I got teached real well in the school I wented two. Sum dae I hope two bee abel two got a jobe wher mi tiping skilz will be aprecieighted.
Good post Dave, I have to agree. The thing that really bothers me isn't necessarily the spelling, as much as it is the lack of thought that goes into a lot of posts. Too many posters (this site so far has been an exception) just post some lame, 10 word response that requires no thought whatsoever, rather than taking the time to articulate (big word) their thoughts in a more easy to read, understandable manner. Although, I guess when you have so many teenagers using the Internet, and message boards, it's bound to happen.
Something else that I've noticed in college is that people rarely have to write things down on paper anymore. So many of the assignments I've had are typed, rather than written down. I understand that it's easier for the teachers to read and understand something that is printed out rather than written down, but to me it takes away some of the thinking that goes into writing things down (spelling, punctuation, etc.). Not to mention people think, "I don't need to spell things properly when typing, that's what spellcheck is for." I don't know if this goes on all over the place, but it's something I've noticed.
Part of the reason why I'm liking this site better than HF, or some other sites I post at is that we have intelligent posters that actually post easy to understand responses (well, except for grim's pictures:D ). I don't have to go through 14 different kinds of "street talk" to understand what the hell somebody is saying. I'm sure that'll probably change a bit as more people join, but for now it's pretty good.
Anyway, enough of my ranting.:)
Great rant. I hate street talk too because it varies from one place to another and I'm not really sure what half of it is supposed to mean. Also by the time I have learned what one phrase means it has been replaced by another.
The ironic thing is that much of the communication these days is in written form so one would conclude that peoples' written skills would improve. Oh well, so much for logic.
I use the Winston Churchill style of punctuation; little or none at all..
Boo Hoo.... Live with it.
Good post Dave, I have to agree. The thing that really bothers me isn't necessarily the spelling, as much as it is the lack of thought that goes into a lot of posts. Too many posters (this site so far has been an exception) just post some lame, 10 word response that requires no thought whatsoever, rather than taking the time to articulate (big word) their thoughts in a more easy to read, understandable manner. Although, I guess when you have so many teenagers using the Internet, and message boards, it's bound to happen.
Something else that I've noticed in college is that people rarely have to write things down on paper anymore. So many of the assignments I've had are typed, rather than written down. I understand that it's easier for the teachers to read and understand something that is printed out rather than written down, but to me it takes away some of the thinking that goes into writing things down (spelling, punctuation, etc.). Not to mention people think, "I don't need to spell things properly when typing, that's what spellcheck is for." I don't know if this goes on all over the place, but it's something I've noticed.
Part of the reason why I'm liking this site better than HF, or some other sites I post at is that we have intelligent posters that actually post easy to understand responses (well, except for grim's pictures:D ). I don't have to go through 14 different kinds of "street talk" to understand what the hell somebody is saying. I'm sure that'll probably change a bit as more people join, but for now it's pretty good.
Anyway, enough of my ranting.:)And for a little proof for emphasis, please read below.Boo Hoo.... Live with it.:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithM
Boo Hoo.... Live with it.
Oh sorry JR, i forgot pretty much everyone in the world types and has perfect grammar. Go outside and take a look at the world, not everyone is like you guys.
Uh oh i think there were some capitalization errors and maybe some comma errors in that.
Oh sorry JR, i forgot pretty much everyone in the world types and has perfect grammar. Go outside and take a look at the world, not everyone is like you guys.
Uh oh i think there were some capitalization errors and maybe some comma errors in that.That's some nice trolling there, boy.
:thumb:
Well JR since your a posting master. What do you suggest I do just say "Oh man nhldave I completely agree with you" , when I clearly dont.
All I did was state my opinion like everyone else, but off course cause mine wasnt in agreeance you had to jump on my a$$.
Well JR since your a posting master. What do you suggest I do just say "Oh man nhldave I completely agree with you" , when I clearly dont.
All I did was state my opinion like everyone else, but off course cause mine wasnt in agreeance you had to jump on my a$$. :roll:
Wow. I thought this was clear. It has absolutely nothing to do with us agreeing with one another. Please read MadDevil's post and you may understand it. By the way, I do wish you the best trying to get through life without basic English abilities.
:D
Eye Eye captain.
But getting back on topic... who cares about bad grammar, this isnt english class.
But getting back on topic... who cares about bad grammar, this isnt english class.I don't think it has anything to do with where we are or who we are, but rather that people should always use correct grammar when writing, speaking, et cetera. I honestly do not care if other people incorrectly use the English language, because it's not me. I do, however, just advise and suggest to others that it is more wise to be correct in everyday life. Most people do know that the language is slipping and I for one would prefer it not to slip any further into the virtual garbage.
http://www.vbaexpress.com/forum/images/smilies/2cents.gif
Darsehole Tucker
8-29-05, 8:08 PM
I don't think this forum is killing the english language. I didn't know I was supposed to be composing an essay on here. I'll be the first to admit that I don't really like the "lol's" or the "omg's" so that's why I don't use them that often...but it's not eating me up inside that's for sure. What really bothers me is when I'm having a conversation with someone and they actually say "lol." Like....that's just unacceptable.
What we need to do is focus on the real problem here: calculators.
bluemeanie
8-30-05, 9:42 AM
What really bothers me is when I'm having a conversation with someone and they actually say "lol." Like....that's just unacceptable.
lol.... OMG, ppl, like, actually do that 2 u... 4 reel?
What we need to do is focus on the real problem here: calculators.
http://www.theogb.com/archive/suspect.gif Yeeeesss... C-A-L-C-U-L-A-T-O-R-S. We should destroy them... them, and those evil speek n' spells, too.
http://www.gomarky.com/blogger/bloggerImg/2005_speak_n_spell.jpg
What you've just said reminds me of this joke so I had to post it
The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been
reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European
communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility.......
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor
trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze
drem vil finali kum tru.
That's funny :laughing:
English is a bunch of BS with your commas and periods in the right place. I got teached real well in the school I wented two. Sum dae I hope two bee abel two got a jobe wher mi tiping skilz will be aprecieighted.
My dad always used to say a joke is never funny when it's obvious, trouble is I can't tell whether you are being serious or sarcastic. That's the trouble with a lot of English users, lack of clear expression combined without the use of emoticons results in confusion and misunderstanding.
:wave: :nod:
Good post Dave, I have to agree. The thing that really bothers me isn't necessarily the spelling, as much as it is the lack of thought that goes into a lot of posts. Not to mention people think, "I don't need to spell things properly when typing, that's what spellcheck is for." I don't know if this goes on all over the place, but it's something I've noticed.
I think you touch upon something here that is a real concern for the future. Spelling is a skill and one that "spellcheck" will more and more eliminate the need to possess. Extrapolating that across all of human endeavor and one starts to wonder at what point in the future do many people possess virtually no skills because technology has replaced the need to learn.
Boo Hoo.... Live with it.
This is another example of poor communication in the sense that whatever KeithM is trying to say is unclear. Is he addressing me for example, or MadDevil's post? Is he trying to be funny or is he suggesting that either I or Mad Devil or both of us, or all the world for that matter, shut up and live with the poorer state of the language?
Is he saying he finds acceptable the poor use of language or is he saying it's just not that important an issue?
Please don't construe this as a criticism of KeithM, it's not intended as such. I just thought it was useful to point out the lack of clarity in a comment as brief as his.
I don't think this forum is killing the English language. I didn't know I was supposed to be composing an essay on here. I'll be the first to admit that I don't really like the "lol's" or the "omg's" so that's why I don't use them that often...but it's not eating me up inside that's for sure. What really bothers me is when I'm having a conversation with someone and they actually say "lol." Like....that's just unacceptable.
What we need to do is focus on the real problem here: calculators.
It's not that this forum is killing the language it's that the usage of the language on this forum is often substandard. But that is true wherever you go, this forum is not unique, just a contributor to the overall problem.
As for composing essays, that is not the point. The point is, if something is worth doing should it not be worth doing well? Regardless of the length of a post why shouldn't it be posted well, making sure the spelling is correct, the language clear.
After all posting on these forums says something about us as individuals, do we not want that something to be a good thing?
What is your solution to this "problem"?
For the benefit of Charlio:
howe shud we be fixin this here problum?
You do realise that there people in this world and maybe on this forum who are dyslexic. To accuse them of being lazy or not careful enough is unfair. Also language is a skill and like any other skill there are differing levels of aptitude. You may not appereciate these differences but they are there and there is little you can do about it.
What is your solution to this "problem"?
I'm not talking about people with medical problems I'm talking about healthy everyday folks who routinely butcher the language because they are either undereducated, lazy or are trying to be "cool".
In my opinion the solution begins in grade one with schools making a huge priority out of language instruction.
The problem extends far beyond these forums. Typically universities offer remedial language courses to incoming freshmen because so many of them are incapable of communicating at even a basic level and certainly nowhere near the level required for university.
To address that I think high schools must emphasize and expand basic reading, grammar and spelling courses and no high school student should be allowed to graduate from high school until they can demonstrate a proper command of the language.
It would be a great help if the entertainment industry rediscovered the English language since so many of us insist on following along like sheep mimicking whatever Hollywood determines is "cool". Unfortunately far too often Hollywood seems to think butchering the language is a good idea.
I'm not talking about people with medical problems I'm talking about healthy everyday folks who routinely butcher the language because they are either undereducated, lazy or are trying to be "cool".
In my opinion the solution begins in grade one with schools making a huge priority out of language instruction.
The problem extends far beyond these forums. Typically universities offer remedial language courses to incoming freshmen because so many of them are incapable of communicating at even a basic level and certainly nowhere near the level required for university.
To address that I think high schools must emphasize and expand basic reading, grammar and spelling courses and no high school student should be allowed to graduate from high school until they can demonstrate a proper command of the language.
It would be a great help if the entertainment industry rediscovered the English language since so many of us insist on following along like sheep mimicking whatever Hollywood determines is "cool". Unfortunately far too often Hollywood seems to think butchering the language is a good idea.+1. Brilliant.
Well written, Mr. Dave.
My dad always used to say a joke is never funny when it's obvious
Your dad was right.
That's the trouble with a lot of English users, lack of clear expression combined without the use of emoticons
Shakespeare knew the power of the emoticon:
Cowards die many times before their deaths; :relief
The valiant never taste of death but once. :jacks:
Talk to the hand %$#@$%#*&%$ . :talkhand:
slapshot™
8-31-05, 10:43 AM
Shakespeare knew the power of the emoticon:
Cowards die many times before their deaths; http://hockeystation.com/images/smilies/relief.gif
The valiant never taste of death but once. :jacks:
Talk to the hand %$#@$%#*&%$ . http://hockeystation.com/images/smilies/talktohand.gif
Shakespeare was such a kidder. One of my faves was a quote of his I found scrawled on a washroom wall at the U of L...
"Let's clear the air of dissent and let the matter drop".
Such economy of words.
I'm not talking about people with medical problems I'm talking about healthy everyday folks who routinely butcher the language because they are either undereducated, lazy or are trying to be "cool".
In my opinion the solution begins in grade one with schools making a huge priority out of language instruction.
The problem extends far beyond these forums. Typically universities offer remedial language courses to incoming freshmen because so many of them are incapable of communicating at even a basic level and certainly nowhere near the level required for university.
To address that I think high schools must emphasize and expand basic reading, grammar and spelling courses and no high school student should be allowed to graduate from high school until they can demonstrate a proper command of the language.
It would be a great help if the entertainment industry rediscovered the English language since so many of us insist on following along like sheep mimicking whatever Hollywood determines is "cool". Unfortunately far too often Hollywood seems to think butchering the language is a good idea.
I partially agree. But mostly I don't care. Part of my work is writing extensive technical documentation describing incomprehensibly complicated hardware systems. It is read by influential customers and it must be perfect. I'm good at it. And I do see university graduates come and go who can't communicate effectively with words to save their life. It is sad. For them. It makes them useless to any company who needs strong communication skills. If you can't use words properly then you can forget about a many careers. But whatever.
Obviously I don't write the same way on forums. People write to suit the situation. I don't get all bent out of shape when people use hiphop abbreviations and slang when it doesn't matter. And why would I care if BoboLeafFan91 doesn't know the difference betweem there, their, they're, its and it's. I don't. Their loss. They look slightly dumb when they mispell eveything but as long as they're funny... it's all good. yknowwhatimsayin? :]
p.s Let me completely disagree with this statement:
It would be a great help if the entertainment industry rediscovered the English language since so many of us insist on following along like sheep mimicking whatever Hollywood determines is "cool". Unfortunately far too often Hollywood seems to think butchering the language is a good idea.
I don't know about Hollywood, but in music, some of the smartest stuff out there is from hiphop. Try Aquemini from Outkast for example. Just to make sure it isn't just me... I did a little Google search... and I'll agree with the reviewer who calls Aquemini "a virtuostic masterpiece." I'll assume you would consider it to be mostly butchered slangy southern US english and therefore cr@p. It isn't. I'll make a list of stupid artists with great grammar if you wish. Peace. :]
http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10215000/10215581.jpg
This topic reminds me (slightly) of the legion of stuffy, uber-literate, well-versed academics that lined up to lambast Alanis Morrissette's usage of the term "ironic" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song)#Linguistic_controversy) on her smash hit album Jagged Little Pill. Fo-shizzle! Gimme a break!! Who cares?
You know what? Go take that textbook definition of irony and turn it into a #1 hit... make yourself useful!
:groovy:
charlio lemieux
8-31-05, 3:31 PM
Foe Shizzle My nizzle Go hizzle mo pizzle
Could I get a translation Please?
Foe Shizzle My nizzle Go hizzle mo pizzle
Could I get a translation Please?
Translation: "I Love The Devils, Martin Brodeur Is God":D
I have to laugh every time I hear somebody say something like that, just because I went to school with a couple of guys who talked like that all the time. Between the language and the hat on sideways with pants hanging around the knees, I'm not sure which was worse.:laughing:
Your dad was right.
Shakespeare knew the power of the emoticon:
Cowards die many times before their deaths; :relief
The valiant never taste of death but once. :jacks:
Talk to the hand %$#@$%#*&%$ . :talkhand:
He copied the idea from the Bible. What would the 10 Commandments be without those cute smilies and winks?
Your dad was right.
Shakespeare knew the power of the emoticon:
Cowards die many times before their deaths; :relief
The valiant never taste of death but once. :jacks:
Talk to the hand %$#@$%#*&%$ . :talkhand: He copied the idea from the Bible. What would the 10 Commandments be without those cute smilies and winks?
Shakespeare tried to take credit for Talk To The Hand. But we all know it was Moses.
http://www.clipartreview.com/_gallery/_LG/15228207.jpg
Max Power
8-31-05, 4:31 PM
I wanted to avoid this topic but I guess I won?t
All I have to say is I disagree with all who strongly agree with this post, especially those who criticize or judge others over week grammar. Just because someone has week writing skills it doesn?t make them uneducated or lazy. I have a great career that allows me to travel the world in a field most here probably know little about other then maybe Rusty in an indirect way. I also have poor writing skills. Does that make me stupid or lazy?
Let me ask the few who have judged others in this topic over grammar the following. How many of you can read, write and speak in more then one language? Dave? J.R.?
Maybe my problem is I grew up only attending a French school spending as little as two hours a week on the English language. Hell I?m not to good with the French writing skills either? Stupid French verbs =] So maybe I am just uneducated.
When I write in this forum I don?t always use its or it?s, where and were in their proper form not because I don?t know the difference but because it doesn?t flow naturally when I write. All I care about is as long as when I write to clients my spelling and grammar is proper. If you expect me to reread and proof read the same here as I do for clients then you take this forum much too seriously
As far as slang goes either way as kids we?ve all used slang and we?ve mostly all grown out of it.
TimmyTabasco
8-31-05, 4:42 PM
I wanted to avoid this topic but I guess I won?t
All I have to say is I disagree with all who strongly agree with this post, especially those who criticize or judge others over week grammar. Just because someone has week writing skills it doesn?t make them uneducated or lazy. I have a great career that allows me to travel the world in a field most here probably know little about other then maybe Rusty in an indirect way. I also have poor writing skills. Does that make me stupid or lazy?
Let me ask the few who have judged others in this topic over grammar the following. How many of you can read, write and speak in more then one language? Dave? J.R.?
Maybe my problem is I grew up only attending a French school spending as little as two hours a week on the English language. Hell I?m not to good with the French writing skills either? Stupid French verbs =] So maybe I am just uneducated.
When I write in this forum I don?t always use its or it?s, where and were in their proper form not because I don?t know the difference but because it doesn?t flow naturally when I write. All I care about is as long as when I write to clients my spelling and grammar is proper. If you expect me to reread and proof read the same here as I do for clients then you take this forum much too seriously
As far as slang goes either way as kids we?ve all used slang and we?ve mostly all grown out of it.
Well said Max
Perhaps the most to the point post I have read in this thread
:thumb:
How many of you can read, write and speak in more then one language?
I frequent some web development forums that tend to attract a more global audience as opposed to a regional one. I have often been impressed to find out - after dealing with a person on a technical level where clear and readable communication is essential - that English is not even their native language... it has really caught me off guard a few times. I don't know why.
It's kind of humbling to realize, not only is this person extremely knowledgable on the topic, but they are schooling me in a foreign language (to them). I can't do that.
Mais parfois j'essayerai de le truquer plus d'au traducteur de Alta Vista.
Hay muchos de gente hisp?nica en mi compa??a, la doy de vez en cuando que una risa contestando a sus E-maices es espa?ola.
This topic reminds me (slightly) of the legion of stuffy, uber-literate, well-versed academics that lined up to lambast Alanis Morrissette's usage of the term "ironic" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song)#Linguistic_controversy) on her smash hit album Jagged Little Pill. Fo-shizzle! Gimme a break!! Who cares?
You know what? Go take that textbook definition of irony and turn it into a #1 hit... make yourself useful!
:groovy:
What a hostile response to a simple topic. You sound like you've been personally insulted.
Go make myself useful. Good grief.
What a hostile response to a simple topic. You sound like you've been personally insulted.
Go make myself useful. Good grief.
I wasn't addressing you in particular Dave... and I was joking around at that. I thought I made that apparent. I was addressing academia in general (more specifically those who made a stink over a pop music song's definition of irony).
You sound like you've been personally insulted. I'm sorry, I guess we had a misunderstanding.
My bad :thumb:
I wanted to avoid this topic but I guess I won?t
All I have to say is I disagree with all who strongly agree with this post, especially those who criticize or judge others over week grammar.
The topic has nothing to do with multi language skills, only English. Neither does it have anything to do with you in particular.
By the way neither does the post suggest in any way that I have superior language skills. However the post does express my opinion however tainted or correct that opinion might be. That's all it is, an opinion. It is not a judgement from on high, it is not a ruling from the language police, it is simply an opinion.
Neither is the post concerned with slang or the evolution of the language. it is concerned with the improper use of the language as it exits today, right now.
The point of the post is that English language skills are not what they should be for a society that boasts what is supposed to be one of the best educated groups of people on the planet.
I wasn't addressing you in particular Dave... and I was joking around at that. I thought I made that apparent. I was addressing academia in general (more specifically those who made a stink over a pop music song's definition of irony).
You sound like you've been personally insulted. I'm sorry, I guess we had a misunderstanding.
My bad :thumb:
Just a little frustrated I guess, been a hard day. :thumb:
"The point of the post is that English language skills are not what they should be for a society that boasts what is supposed to be one of the best educated groups of people on the planet."
You do realise that there are many ways of spelling words depending on where you originate ie. in the UK words like realise are spelled with an "s" instead of a "z"; spelt is used instead of spelled; licence and license are used in different circumstances; aluminum is spelt aluminium; eon is spelt aeon; manouver is spelt maneouver; etc.. I will also add that the rules of grammar have changed since I left school.
Which are correct, the old grammar rules or the new ones, the UK spellings or the North American ones? Please clarify for me.
Just because someone has week writing skills it doesn?t make them uneducated or lazy.Not lazy, but perhaps uneducated. I have developed my language ability through education and going to school. If someone doesn't understand how to communicate, then I do assume that they haven't been taught the necessary skills.
I also have poor writing skills.To be honest, Max, you have fooled me. I have yet to read one your posts where I have trouble understanding what you are communicating.
How many of you can read, write and speak in more then one language? Dave? J.R.?I live in an English speaking country and I only use English in my life, so no I am not fluent in any other language, because I do not require to be bilingual. I only focus on the language that I need to use everyday.
As far as slang goes either way as kids we?ve all used slang and we?ve mostly all grown out of it.The problem with slang is that it's constantly changing. One meaning from one generation doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to the next generation. Same goes for various regions of the world where the same meanings also may not apply.
Simply put, if people used proper English in everyday life, then there wouldn't be the problem of misunderstandings when attempting to communicate.
Max Power
9-01-05, 11:49 AM
JR & NHLD
Just to be clear I wasn?t attacking your opinions or stance on the topic but simply conveying my opinion on it. I see your point but I don?t see the issue as a problem in our society. Language has been butchered by many societies for centuries i.e. see the Swiss or Acadians, but society still progresses =]
Cheers
:) "The point of the post is that English language skills are not what they should be for a society that boasts what is supposed to be one of the best educated groups of people on the planet."
You do realise that there are many ways of spelling words depending on where you originate ie. in the UK words like realise are spelled with an "s" instead of a "z"; spelt is used instead of spelled; licence and license are used in different circumstances; aluminum is spelt aluminium; eon is spelt aeon; manouver is spelt maneouver; etc.. I will also add that the rules of grammar have changed since I left school.
Which are correct, the old grammar rules or the new ones, the UK spellings or the North American ones? Please clarify for me.
I am not aware the rules of grammar have changed much if at all, perhaps it's more how we choose to use/abuse them that has evolved. As for which language to use I think you've answered that already. If in Rome do what the Romans do.
By the way if you do a Google spell check on the examples of maneuver that you cited it identifies both of your choices as being spelled incorrectly. :)
bluemeanie
9-01-05, 12:26 PM
... Cheers
We all know that he really meant to spell Beers.
We all know that he really meant to spell Beers.
You mean byres?
http://www.radfordgallery.fsnet.co.uk/radst/jpgd/birktyre.jpg
Darsehole Tucker
9-01-05, 6:06 PM
All I have to say is, Max when you say "...who criticize or judge others over week grammar. Just because someone has week writing skills it doesn?t make them uneducated or lazy" are you spelling weak the (soft) European way? :laughing:
Max Power
9-01-05, 6:23 PM
All I have to say is, Max when you say are you spelling weak the (soft) European way? :laughing:
What I was trying to say is I have weak writing skills this week? Yah that?s it
I say I have weak writing skills, others will say I have a drinking problem. It?s all a matter of opinion
*&%$#@ DT
=]
You mean byres?
http://www.radfordgallery.fsnet.co.uk/radst/jpgd/birktyre.jpg
Cor blimey I forgot tyres and gaol.
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