View Full Version : Smyth "On outside looking in"
From the score.
He's playing on a line with Draper and Maltby. :rolleyes: Good talent analysis there Quinn.
Absolutey ridiculous he wouldn't be on the team after everything he's done for Canada. He's always been great for Canada (maybe not so great at the latest World Champs, but he was STILL one of the best players we had at that tournament even though he adn't played in almost 8 months). He was stunning at the World Cup, on a line with Lecavalier and Heatley.
That's a mistake. Basically you already mentioned what I was going to say to make a case for Smyth. He's answered the call time and time again for Canada (when others didn't), accepting the captain duties for the past three World Championships (two golds, one silver). This would absolutely shock and make me angry if Smyth was left off the team. He's just got to be there for the experience and leadership.
Leafs_Fa_Life
8-18-05, 10:21 PM
Playing with Maltby and Draper at an August camp means he won't be on the team :confused:
Platapie
8-18-05, 10:31 PM
Wait, wasn't Draper playing with Lecavalier/St.Louis recently? I heard in the paper that they looked fantastic.
Wait, wasn't Draper playing with Lecavalier/St.Louis recently? I heard in the paper that they looked fantastic.
Yeah, it appears the score was wrong and Smyth has been playing with Marleau and Morrow... not exactly something I'd call an upgrade.
Newfie John
8-19-05, 11:57 AM
I think it's a safe bet that Smyth will be on the team.
No offense, but does this really mean anything right now? We're how many months away from the Olympics?
TimmyTabasco
8-19-05, 3:17 PM
Ahem..cough...cough..
What was that discussion we were having, in chat the other day? :nod: :coffee: :thumb:
slapshot™
8-22-05, 8:08 PM
There are going to be a "few" good players not make the squad. Maybe Smytty will be one of them. Who knows.
wildboy26
11-03-05, 1:58 PM
I actually would like to see him not make the team. He is a great player who has done alot for Team Canada, but they seem to be more open-minded, and not keep bringing back the same people if there are people improving enough to be better than them. Smyth is not one of the top 15 forwards in Canada anymore IMO, as good as he is. At the Worlds his play was nowhere near what Nash and Thorton did on the first line, and there were quite a few others better than him too. He should not be gauranteed a spot just because of his past loyalty to Team Canada. I would like to see him left of the team, but I doubt he will.
slapshot™
11-20-05, 1:52 PM
Smytty has been on top of his game so far...
16 games = 9 goals and 11 assists = 20 points
3rd in the League in shooting percentage @ 26.2%
He has been contributing consistantly on the top Oiler line with Hemsky & Horcoff and can't see any reason why he would be left off the Olympic team roster (unless he gets injured or flatlines on point production).
I actually would like to see him not make the team. He is a great player who has done alot for Team Canada, but they seem to be more open-minded, and not keep bringing back the same people if there are people improving enough to be better than them. Smyth is not one of the top 15 forwards in Canada anymore IMO, as good as he is. At the Worlds his play was nowhere near what Nash and Thorton did on the first line, and there were quite a few others better than him too. He should not be gauranteed a spot just because of his past loyalty to Team Canada. I would like to see him left of the team, but I doubt he will.
Name 4 LW's who are better.
Being right now in the NHL you can't even name 4 LW's who are better when you include Elias and Naslund, I somehow doubt you can when you're only naming Canadians ;).
Newfie John
11-20-05, 2:46 PM
Name 4 LW's who are better.
Being right now in the NHL you can't even name 4 LW's who are better when you include Elias and Naslund, I somehow doubt you can when you're only naming Canadians ;).
Gretzky doesn't usually pick his team's by position. What he usually does is pick the best available players, and worry about where they play after. Now obviously he takes F, D and G into consideration. But when it comes to C, RW and LW, he just takes the best available forwards and goes from there.
FTR, I think Smyth will be on the team. Just making a point.
Gretzky doesn't usually pick his team's by position. What he usually does is pick the best available players, and worry about where they play after. Now obviously he takes F, D and G into consideration. But when it comes to C, RW and LW, he just takes the best available forwards and goes from there.
FTR, I think Smyth will be on the team. Just making a point.
I thought that too, but then I remembered his point about Staal and Spezza possibly not being on the team because we already had Sakic/Vinny/Lemieux/Thornton down the middle.
... even though Mario's been playing RW most of the season :conspire:
I also think Smyth should be on the team (obviously) and that he'd actually be the perfect winger for Heatley/Spezza... not that there's anything wrong with Alfredson ;).
charlio lemieux
11-20-05, 7:59 PM
Name 4 LW's who are better.
Being right now in the NHL you can't even name 4 LW's who are better when you include Elias and Naslund, I somehow doubt you can when you're only naming Canadians
I count Heatley, Gagne, Kovalchuk, Ovetchkin, Naslund, Elias and Nash are all players I would take Hands Down over Smyth any day.
These players are on the same level as Smyth, whoever is having the better day will be the better player: Kariya, Shanahan, Zetterberg, Samsonov, Tanguay and Prospal.
Now I can't find my calculator.......
I count Heatley, Gagne, Kovalchuk, Ovetchkin, Naslund, Elias and Nash are all players I would take Hands Down over Smyth any day.
These players are on the same level as Smyth, whoever is having the better day will be the better player: Kariya, Shanahan, Zetterberg, Samsonov, Tanguay and Prospal.
Now I can't find my calculator.......
Gagne's not there yet, Heatley is a natural RW (although, he is playing LW now, so I suppose we can add him to the list). Ovechkin and Nash aren't there yet. If you think they make your team better like Smyth does, you're seriously kidding yourself. Kariya may be a slightly better scorer, but doesn't add the defense or the consistency. Samsonov is injury prone and couldn't play defense if his life depended on it. Prospal and Tanguay are both results of the centers that they play with. Calling Zetterberg equal to Smyth at this point in their careers is laughable.
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
11-20-05, 8:24 PM
I count Heatley, Gagne, Kovalchuk, Ovetchkin, Naslund, Elias and Nash are all players I would take Hands Down over Smyth any day.
These players are on the same level as Smyth, whoever is having the better day will be the better player: Kariya, Shanahan, Zetterberg, Samsonov, Tanguay and Prospal.
Now I can't find my calculator.......
Ovechkin isn't even halfway into his 1st NHL season yet, and you would take him over Smyth??? :eek:
Kovalchuk and Nash need to show that they care about defense before they can be put above Smyth.
I believe that puts Smyth at #5, at least.
charlio lemieux
11-20-05, 8:30 PM
Take off those OILER BLUE TINTED SHADES. They Skewer your vision.
After seeing Smyth blow Three good chances last night I'll take Ovetchkin and Nash, Thank you Very Much.
All kidding aside Smyth does deserve to be on Team Canada, and I penciled him in as 4th line LW on my pick with Gagne, Heatley, and Richards infront of him. Yzerman should be a no, and in all reality so should Mario if it is going to cost Spezza a spot at centre. We don't need Mario for Leadership, Sakic, Blake, Pronger, Thornton and Smyth, should provide enough. And since Mario is not producing 1.5ppg anymore and Spezza is, maybe Mario should sit this one out.
charlio lemieux
11-20-05, 8:37 PM
Ovechkin isn't even halfway into his 1st NHL season yet, and you would take him over Smyth???
Ovetchkin's up-side is almost limitles whereas Smyth's best days are behind him, somewhere with Guerin and Weight. Smyth will never produce the way Ovetchkin will. Isn't Ovetchkin already halfway to Smyth's season best goal total? And we're what 22 games in. Maybe at this point in time Smyth contributes more to his team, but the is no denying that Ovetchkin is far more dangerous player.
slapshot™
11-20-05, 10:05 PM
Now I can't find my calculator.......
More than needing a calculator. You realize that the non-Canadians on your lists would have to challenge for a spot on their own respective teams, therefore their ability has no comparitive value (or bearing) as to Smyth and whether he makes the cut for team Canada or not?
But of course you do.
charlio lemieux
11-20-05, 10:14 PM
More than needing a calculator. You realize that the non-Canadians on your lists would have to challenge for a spot on their own respective teams, therefore their ability has no comparitive value (or bearing) as to Smyth and whether he makes the cut for team Canada or not?
But of course you do.
Read the next post.
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
11-20-05, 10:29 PM
Ovetchkin's up-side is almost limitles whereas Smyth's best days are behind him, somewhere with Guerin and Weight. Smyth will never produce the way Ovetchkin will. Isn't Ovetchkin already halfway to Smyth's season best goal total? And we're what 22 games in. Maybe at this point in time Smyth contributes more to his team, but the is no denying that Ovetchkin is far more dangerous player.
Ovechkin may have more upside than Smyth, but that's not what we are talking about. PDO said "Name 4 LWs that are better." Ovechkin isn't better than him yet. He probably will be later on in his career but not right now.
Ovechkin may have more upside than Smyth, but that's not what we are talking about. PDO said "Name 4 LWs that are better." Ovechkin isn't better than him yet. He probably will be later on in his career but not right now.
:sign:
Thank you ;].
MadDevil
11-21-05, 12:51 AM
There are only two left wingers that I would take hands down over Smyth, and those are Naslund and Elias. Maybe it's just because I'm a Devils fan, but I'd rather have a player that I could trust on the ice in all situations. Naslund, Elias, and Smyth are the three most complete left wingers in the game IMO. Gagne is becoming another one, but I'd still put him below Smyth at this point. Kovalchuk, Nash, Ovechkin, and Tanguay haven't proven to me that they can play in all situations consistently, Kariya is not the player he used to be, Shanahan is in the twilight of his career, and Heatley has only switched to the left side this season.
The only LW mentioned that I WOULDN'T take RIGHT NOW, let alone in a year from now, ahead of Ryan Smyth, are Nash and Ovechkin, only because of lack of experience, but even then, in the right role I might. The rest I take for sure, add Zetterberg and Tkachuk as well. Ryan Smyth is one of the most overrated players in the game, and to me there'd have to be some consideration given to much better RWs and Cs that could move over before taking Smyth as well.
slapshot™
11-21-05, 4:33 PM
Ryan Smyth is one of the most overrated players in the game...
It doesn't surprise me to hear that from a 'Nucks fan. IMHO I think he is underrated.
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 4:49 PM
It doesn't surprise me to hear that from a 'Nucks fan. IMHO I think he is underrated.
Under-rated? Everyone has been Smyth this and Smyth that, when year in year out he is out classed by several left wingers.
How many 50 goal years has Shanahan had?
Where was Smyth when Kariya was scoring 100 + points?
There is no denying Smyth is good, but he is far from this God-like staus that seems to be given to him.
Under-rated? Everyone has been Smyth this and Smyth that, when year in year out he is out classed by several left wingers.
How many 50 goal years has Shanahan had?
Where was Smyth when Kariya was scoring 100 + points?
There is no denying Smyth is good, but he is far from this God-like staus that seems to be given to him.
Yep, this elite LW has never so much as been a 2nd team all-star, best season was a whopping 70 points playing alongside one of the best set-up men in the game.
The only LW mentioned that I WOULDN'T take RIGHT NOW, let alone in a year from now, ahead of Ryan Smyth, are Nash and Ovechkin, only because of lack of experience, but even then, in the right role I might. The rest I take for sure, add Zetterberg and Tkachuk as well. Ryan Smyth is one of the most overrated players in the game, and to me there'd have to be some consideration given to much better RWs and Cs that could move over before taking Smyth as well.
:coffee: :rolleyes:
MadDevil
11-21-05, 5:10 PM
Yep, this elite LW has never so much as been a 2nd team all-star, best season was a whopping 70 points playing alongside one of the best set-up men in the game.
So a player has to put up 80+ points to be an "elite" player? I'd much rather take a guy like Smyth who can play in all situations, drives the net fearlessly, sacrifices his body, and leads by example over a one-dimensional scorer like Kovalchuk or Nash. Maybe it's just me though...
So a player has to put up 80+ points to be an "elite" player? I'd much rather take a guy like Smyth who can play in all situations, drives the net fearlessly, sacrifices his body, and leads by example over a one-dimensional scorer like Kovalchuk or Nash. Maybe it's just me though...
You're telling me that you wouldn't trade Ryan Smyth for either of those guys right now?
Sure, and I bet you'd take the more "verstile and complete" Mike Peca over Mario Lemieux too. :rolleyes:
MadDevil
11-21-05, 5:22 PM
You're telling me that you wouldn't trade Ryan Smyth for either of those guys right now?
Sure, and I bet you'd take the more "verstile and complete" Mike Peca over Mario Lemieux too. :rolleyes:
To tell the truth, with a salary cap in place, I probably wouldn't deal him straight up for Kovalchuk or Nash. Smyth is much more affordable than either of those two, who would end up taking up 1/6 of the payroll by themselves.
Like I said, maybe I'm alone here, but that's what I think.:thumb:
To tell the truth, with a salary cap in place, I probably wouldn't deal him straight up for Kovalchuk or Nash. Smyth is much more affordable than either of those two, who would end up taking up 1/6 of the payroll by themselves.
Like I said, maybe I'm alone here, but that's what I think.:thumb:
Who in their right mind would want a player who makes everyone on the ice better (somethign Mr. Nash can't dream of doing right now.. haven't checked on Ovechkin this year) while playing against the best players on the other team and outscoring them? Forget the intangibles like leadership, grit and determination; this guy is a bum! :conspire:
To tell the truth, with a salary cap in place, I probably wouldn't deal him straight up for Kovalchuk or Nash. Smyth is much more affordable than either of those two, who would end up taking up 1/6 of the payroll by themselves.
Like I said, maybe I'm alone here, but that's what I think.:thumb:
Screw the cap excuse, we're talking about who's better.
Originally Posted by MadDevil
To tell the truth, with a salary cap in place, I probably wouldn't deal him straight up for Kovalchuk or Nash. Smyth is much more affordable than either of those two, who would end up taking up 1/6 of the payroll by themselves.
Like I said, maybe I'm alone here, but that's what I think.
Also where does Pronger fit into that logic?
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 5:47 PM
Who in their right mind would want a player who makes everyone on the ice better (somethign Mr. Nash can't dream of doing right now.. haven't checked on Ovechkin this year) while playing against the best players on the other team and outscoring them? Forget the intangibles like leadership, grit and determination; this guy is a bum! :conspire:
Finally some Logic!:laughing: :laughing:
Of course Kovalchuk and Naslund don't make the players around them better. Morrison would be capable of 60 - 70 pts playing with Hoglund and Thomas right. Sundin averaged a point a game with them so 60 pts shouldn't be too hard.
Marc Savard was what a 40-50 pt player in Calgary, he now averages over a point a game, but Kovalchuk and his Rocket Richard trophy has had nothing to do with his improvement.
Who in their right mind would want a player who makes everyone on the ice better (somethign Mr. Nash can't dream of doing right now.. haven't checked on Ovechkin this year) while playing against the best players on the other team and outscoring them? Forget the intangibles like leadership, grit and determination; this guy is a bum! :conspire:
Nice exaggeration, so there's nothing in between Elite and "bum"? :rolleyes:
Newfie John
11-21-05, 6:36 PM
I wouldn't say Smyth is a bum, but I'd without doubt rather have Kovalchuck. He's an all around better goalscorer, has a better offensive mind. Sure, he doesn't give a rats ass about this own end but stick some defensively responsible guys on his line and you're good to go. Salaries aside, if Edmonton was offered Kovalchuck for Smyth, you'd have to take Kovalchuck.
I wouldn't say Smyth is a bum, but I'd without doubt rather have Kovalchuck. He's an all around better goalscorer, has a better offensive mind. Sure, he doesn't give a rats ass about this own end but stick some defensively responsible guys on his line and you're good to go. Salaries aside, if Edmonton was offered Kovalchuck for Smyth, you'd have to take Kovalchuck.
Yes, I would.
Kovalchuk, Elias, Naslund.
The only 3 LW's I take over Smyth every day of the week (assuming that Elias comes back 100%).
I never said Kovalchuk and Naslund don't make their linemates better, I said Nash doesn't, and Ovechkin probally doesn't.
I'm sure in a short time I'll take Ovechkin and Nash over him; but not yet. Gagne is moving up, and assuming Heatley stays a LW he's a great argument as well.
Newfie John
11-21-05, 6:48 PM
Can't comment on Nash, haven't seen enough of him. Nash is only what, 20 years old. Not many youngsters have the quality of making everyone around them better.
Can't comment on Nash, haven't seen enough of him. Nash is only what, 20 years old. Not many youngsters have the quality of making everyone around them better.
Never said they should either ;). We're talking about who's better right now though.
MadDevil
11-21-05, 9:39 PM
Screw the cap excuse, we're talking about who's better.
And it's my opinion that I think at this point I'd take Smyth over Kovalchuk (although he's very close). What part of that was difficult to understand?:rolleyes:
charlio lemieux
11-21-05, 9:42 PM
Heatley 1.78 pts/game
Gagne 1.63pts/game
Kovalchuk 1.59pts/game
Prospal 1.41pt/game
Smyth 1.25pts/game
Naslund 1.24pts/game
Frolov 1.14pts/game
LiAmTrAnSdEmOn
11-21-05, 10:43 PM
That's all nice with the PPG but that doesn't show anyone the defense that Kovalchuk doesn't play. Other guys are guilty of this but Kovalchuk is the only guy, along with Nash, that gets the credit for being good while completely ignoring the other end of the ice. I find this to be ludicrous.
That's all nice with the PPG but that doesn't show anyone the defense that Kovalchuk doesn't play. Other guys are guilty of this but Kovalchuk is the only guy, along with Nash, that gets the credit for being good while completely ignoring the other end of the ice. I find this to be ludicrous.
Atleast Kovalchuks teammates are still better when he's on the ice than when he's not though.. same can't be said for Mr. Nash.
I suppose Smyth is a better play than Naslund now Charlio?
charlio lemieux
11-22-05, 12:23 PM
Atleast Kovalchuks teammates are still better when he's on the ice than when he's not though.. same can't be said for Mr. Nash.
I suppose Smyth is a better play than Naslund now Charlio?
HAHA you so funny! If you where a stand up comic I seriously would be laughing. Or atleast not throwing anything.
Why must you insist on putting words in people's mouth?
I wonder about you PDO. I put up a stat that actually shows your "god" having the best offensive output of his carreer, abberation or not, and instead of using it to help support your own theory and point of view, you use it to attack and insult me.
Is this a debate or a school yard?
And it's my opinion that I think at this point I'd take Smyth over Kovalchuk (although he's very close). What part of that was difficult to understand?:rolleyes:
Oh, I must have misread, I could have sworn you qualified it by saying "with a salary cap in place"... :rolleyes:
vBulletin® v3.6.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.