View Full Version : How low can Microsoft go?
Max Power
8-15-05, 11:37 AM
This is actually kind of funny. Microsoft just finds any possible way to make money and continue it?s dominance. I swear there should be two little horns coming out of the Microsoft corporate logo
Apple blunder gives Gates iPod royalty
By Katherine Griffiths in New York
Published: 14 August 2005
Apple Computer may be forced to pay royalties to Microsoft for every iPod it sells after it emerged that Bill Gates's software giant beat Steve Jobs' firm in the race to file a crucial patent on technology used in the popular portable music players. The total bill could run into hundreds of millions of dollars.
Although Apple introduced the iPod in November 2001, it did not file a provisional patent application until July 2002, and a full application was filed only in October that year.
In the meantime, Microsoft submitted an application in May 2002 to patent some key elements of music players, including song menu software.
Apple and Microsoft were two of several companies that developed portable players, but the iPod, with its sleek design and user-friendly controls, has dominated the market.
IPods make up three of every four portable music players bought in the US and account for almost one-third of Apple's sales. Piper Jaffray, a US analyst, believes Apple will sell 25 million iPods this year, bringing the total sold in the four years since its launch to 35 million.
In July, the US Patent and Trademark Office rejected Apple's application, saying some ideas were similar to an earlier application filed by a Microsoft employee, John Platt.
The dispute, which emerged this week on the closely watched website, Appleinsider.com, could lead to Apple having to pay a licence fee for the technology of up to $10 a machine.
David Kaefer, Microsoft's director of intellectual property licensing and business development, said: "In general, our policy is to allow others to license our patents so they can use our innovative methods in their products."
Apple has signalled it will resist the move. A spokeswoman said Apple would continue to try to get its patent recognised. The company could take the case to the patent office's appeals board. "Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the Microsoft patent application was filed," it said in a statement.
The battle comes as Microsoft is squaring up against another competitor, Google. Microsoft last month launched a lawsuit against the search-engine giant, accusing it of poaching a top executive to head a new research laboratory in China. The Redmond, Washington-based company also sued the executive, Kai-Fu Lee.
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article305638.ece
bluemeanie
8-15-05, 11:53 AM
http://www.defendingthenet.com/Images/ComputerJokes/funny-Microsoft-world-domination-picture.jpg
Iced Tea
8-15-05, 11:53 PM
Microsoft will eventually take control of everything. Right now, Bill Gates and his stooges are developing a time machine so he can go back and submit patents for moving pictures, the automobile, breast implants and swizzle sticks.
Bill is probably monitoring what I type right now. Screw you, Gates. Take your lousy software and go to heck. :curse:
I hope Steve Jobs fights back. He has always been a man I admire.
Doesn't sound to me like MS did anything wrong honestly. They want to be in the portable music game just as much as anyone else, so they filed for patents on some various components of mp3 players.
The fact that apple released the iPod without filing for the proper patents ahead of time... well that's just absurd. Serves them right. I'm not even business savvy and I would know better. As far as I'm concerned, they allowed themselves to get screwed and brought this situation upon themselves.
Max Power
8-16-05, 9:51 AM
Doesn't sound to me like MS did anything wrong honestly. They want to be in the portable music game just as much as anyone else, so they filed for patents on some various components of mp3 players.
The fact that apple released the iPod without filing for the proper patents ahead of time... well that's just absurd. Serves them right. I'm not even business savvy and I would know better. As far as I'm concerned, they allowed themselves to get screwed and brought this situation upon themselves.
To me this is a huge problem... Ignoring the fact that companies like Microsoft can paten known technologies and suck money out of anybody who develops something similar is a sick and twisted part of our corporate world. The fact still remains that apple developed a popular toy and Microsoft couldn't be satisfied with competing so they went after a piece of their pie.
What?s really funny is the fact that it was easier for Microsoft to legally steal money from Apple through corporate laws then it was for them to build a better product to beat apple in a fair competitive manner
bluemeanie
8-16-05, 10:13 AM
To me this is a huge problem... Ignoring the fact that companies like Microsoft can paten known technologies and suck money out of anybody who develops something similar is a sick and twisted part of our corporate world. The fact still remains that apple developed a popular toy and Microsoft couldn't be satisfied with competing so they went after a piece of their pie.
What?s really funny is the fact that it was easier for Microsoft to legally steal money from Apple through corporate laws then it was for them to build a better product to beat apple in a fair competitive manner
You're right Max, and the problem isn't necessarily with Microsoft... (although, it is) but, rather how corporate law is so bent on constantly re-inventing itself. Corporate law gave birth to the 'loop hole', and has always submitted to the deeper pocket. Microsh t has been stealing Apple's technologies since the dawn of the computer age, and running with it as their own in the form of an inferior and therefore cheaper product. I'm sure that both companies owe some of their success to the other, and it just baffles me how, Gates relentlessly tries to bury Jobs whenever he does something nice for him.
Just the tip of the proverbial iceberg ... the existence of software patents is stupid... lots of info and rantings out there ...
Ridiculous Patents
In a previous rant I talked about the insane idea of allowing software patents. The European Commission is currently considering a proposal to that respect. In the US software patents are currently allowed. This has led to companies patenting the most basic of ideas, which any rational person would never think to be possible to be patented. I skimmed a few dozen software patents awarded to Microsoft, and quickly found the following ones I would say should never have been awarded, on the grounds that not only they are too broad and too basic, but also that they have been used by many people in the past, so they simply are not innovations but rip-offs. Anyway, here's the list, just to give you an idea of what will happen when software patents will be allowed in Europe.
* Patent 6,594,674 System and method for creating multiple files from a single source file. This patent covers packing a couple of files together into one package, from which you can extract individual files. This patent has been awarded July 15, 2003. Compression software (such as WinZip), around as long as I can remember, does exactly this.
* Patent 6,604,008 Scoring based upon goals achieved and subjective elements. This patent covers scoring in computer games that does not only award points for achieving goals but also for performing feats. The patent has been granted August 5, 2003. The scoring system it describes is very common in, for instance, computer roleplaying games (such as Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind). One game that uses exactly such a system is The Elder Scrolls: Arena, released in 1993.
* Patent 6,606,618 Method for optimizing the performance of a database. This patent covers using (automated) numerical key-files for database systems that contain text or objects. The patent has been granted August 12, 2003. Everyone who has worked with databases knows using numerical key files is a must if you want to efficiently access data. Everyone generates numerical key files if the data does not contain natural numerical keys. This is basic computer science that has been taught in the earliest courses on datastructures.
* Patent 6,606,101 Information pointers. This patent covers the use of "popup notes" when you move your mouse pointer over an object on the screen. It has been granted August 12, 2003. If a program doesn't show popup notes, I consider this bad interfacing.
* Patent 6,618,857 Method and system for installing software on a computer system. This patent covers installing software on a computer system whereby more than one file is copied to the system and files that already exist are only overwritten in special circumstances. The patent has been granted September 9, 2003. Virtually all programs nowadays are installed in this manner (often generating the installation package using Installshield) and this method has been used for more than a decade.
I assume a complete lack of rationality and critical insight on the part of the patent office administrators has been the cause that Microsoft now can sue anyone who includes in his or her software file packages, a game scoring system, a database, popup notes and/or an easy installation method.
While I have only included Microsoft patents (and believe me, they hold many more often ridiculous patents; I only listed a few recent ones that were easy to explain), it is certainly not Microsoft alone that is trying to abuse the patent system by raking in a portfolio of patents for very common tasks. Patent wars are raging (as demonstrated by the fact that these examples have all been granted recently). Big companies are flooding patent offices with applications for any basic computer-related idea they can think of. It is not about patenting new inventions, but about trying to gain exclusive rights to ideas that until recently have been public property. It is law-endorsed stealing of the fruits of other people's intellect that were free for anyone to use. And by what rights do these companies lay claims on public ideas? Only by being the wealthiest, being the greediest and being the one that employs the most lawyers.
The behemoths fighting the wars are the only winners here. The casualties are the small and medium-sized software developers, who are practically forbidden by law to practice their arts, and the software users (including you), who will have to be content with the expensive and mediocre software delivered by the behemoths, who won't have any reason anymore to compete by delivering quality and being innovative.
September 10, 2003
? 2003 by Pieter Spronck
http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/p.spronck/RidiculousPatents.htm
Take your lousy software and go to heck. :curse:
Heck eh? I hope that's not the swear filter talkin'... :]
Microsh t has been stealing Apple's technologies since the dawn of the computer age, and running with it as their own in the form of an inferior and therefore cheaper product.
And Apple continues to let it happen? They released the iPod and didn't apply for patenting till 9 months later????? :conspire:
By now Apple is (or at least should be) just as savvy regarding the patent process as Microsoft. If they're not, then they deserve what happens to them. Whether or not software patents are sensible is irrelevant. What matters is that they are legal.
How many times to do have to burn yourself on a hot pan before you make sure to wear a glove the next time you pick it up?
:violin:
bluemeanie
8-16-05, 12:18 PM
I'm not crying for Apple here, but where some might consider the act of Microsoft sitting on their thumbs waiting for Apple to release a product to the public and then rush delivering a claim to the patent office for the technology a 'business savy' move, I just see it as 'robbery'. Pretty easy stuff.
Remember Microsoft investing $150 million in Apple in 1997 and basically saving their a$$? I do. Maybe this is a little more underhanded than usual from MS.
[August 19, 1997]
DOJ exploring Microsoft's Apple investment
In addition to the investigation reported yesterday in WinInfo, the U.S. Department of Justice is also looking into the investment Microsoft made in Apple Computer two weeks ago. Though Microsoft publicly committed to purchasing $150 million in non-voting Apple stock, the company also paid Apple Computer an undisclosed sum, thought to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars range, to settle possible patent infringements and get a cross-licensing deal with the Cupertino company.
Apple Computer has not yet responded to the DOJ investigation, though Microsoft thought enough of it to issue a press release yesterday. Officially, Microsoft is unconcerned.
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/17244/17244.html
I'm not crying for Apple here, but where some might consider the act of Microsoft sitting on their thumbs waiting for Apple to release a product to the public and then rush delivering a claim to the patent office for the technology a 'business savy' move, I just see it as 'robbery'. Pretty easy stuff.
That's what I'm getting at Blue. Microsoft didn't have to rush anything. Apple left themselves wide open. Apple should have had all patent issues squared away prior to the release of the iPod... MS didn't "rush to the patent office" for 6 months after the iPod came out!
At any rate, sitting on patents is one of the less harmful Microsoft activities in my opinion. Lots of people do it, from conglomerates to individuals. With this case of the iPod, you see it as robbery... I see it as leaving a big stack of $100 bills in the middle of Grand Central Station... and then being surprised to find it gone when you come back 9 months later.
bluemeanie
8-16-05, 1:02 PM
I see it as leaving a big stack of $100 bills in the middle of Grand Central Station... and then being surprised to find it gone when you come back 9 months later.
That's an analogy, here's another...
You buy a brand new sitting-lawn mower, and you show it off to everyone in the neighbourhood. Everybody knows you bought it, everybody knows it's yours. One morning you wake up and Bob across the street is mowing his lawn with it. You ask him what's up, and Bob just scratches his butt and looks at you. You call the police, but the police can't find your name anywhere on the lawn mower, and as fate would have it you misplaced the receipt. And despite the fact that everyone on the block has come out in defence for you and are all witness to the fact that it belongs to you... everyone knows it... Bob still gets away with robbery...
bluemeanie
8-16-05, 1:06 PM
Remember Microsoft investing $150 million in Apple in 1997 and basically saving their a$$? I do. Maybe this is a little more underhanded than usual from MS.
I do remember yes. And although Apple had been suffering considerable share losses at the time, many will argue that that deal was far more in the interest of Microsoft then in the name of good will.
The release from MS:
Microsoft Corporation announced a deal to invest $150 million in Apple Computer Corp. in exchange for Apple distributing Microsoft's Internet Explorer with the Mac OS. Internet Explorer will become the default browser of the Mac OS. Microsoft also announced that it would continue to release software for the Macintosh platform, including Office 98.
The release from Mac:
company co-founder Steve Jobs told an astonished crowd at the MacWorld trade show in Boston Wednesday that Microsoft would invest $150 million in Apple, and the two companies would share and license each other's technologies.
The main points of interest on the deal seem to vary for the two. But, at that stage of PC technology, Gates knew that apple had the inside edge on industrial and graphic technologies and he had to invest. And despite the 'investment' and its terms of "two companies sharing and licensing each other's technologies" Microsoft doesn't seem willing to play fare.
This just in. Apple has invented a revolutionary new mouse (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/08/11/mighty.mouse.ap/) which, get this... has more than one button and can scroll sideways! Hopefully Microsoft doesn't steal that idea too ;)
bluemeanie
8-16-05, 1:38 PM
This just in. Apple has invented a revolutionary new mouse (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/08/11/mighty.mouse.ap/) which, get this... has more than one button and can scroll sideways! Hopefully Microsoft doesn't steal that idea too ;)
Actually, Apple was the first company to offer a PC with a mouse. =]
I use both platforms everyday, and honestly I haven't noticed any advantage to a multi button mouse. I can do anything with the combination of my keyboard and my single button MAC laser mouse that I can do with any multi-button, scroll mouse. I've always liked the simplicity of it, but I guess untill I try the 'ball', I won't critisize it yet.
J/K - I have always liked to harass Mac users for the one button mouse. But obviously it works for them.
My brother has never owned a windows PC nor used one in his profession for over 15 years. He is also not one of those militant Mac users who feel the need to be hating on windows all the time. I knew a woman like that. Her Mac was like her pet or something. :conspire: :)
Macs still to this day are way ahead of "wintel" for certain things.
charlio lemieux
8-16-05, 3:01 PM
The EVIL Microsoft Corp. Thats all anybody seems to talk about. I used to, but I won't anymore. However the corperation runs it's business, ethically or not, should be outshined by the help that they provide to the underprivilaged.
For all you MS haters who think Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ please check out The Bill and Mellinda Gates Foundation and the work that they do.
Max Power
8-16-05, 3:05 PM
The EVIL Microsoft Corp. Thats all anybody seems to talk about. I used to, but I won't anymore. However the corperation runs it's business, ethically or not, should be outshined by the help that they provide to the underprivilaged.
For all you MS haters who think Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ please check out The Bill and Mellinda Gates Foundation and the work that they do.
This topic has nothing to do with hating Bill Gates or blaming him for anything?
However the corperation runs it's business, ethically or not, should be outshined by the help that they provide to the underprivilaged.
Sorry. Giving to charity does not excuse trying to take over the universe with deeds of evil. :]
For all you MS haters who think Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ please check out The Bill and Mellinda Gates Foundation and the work that they do.
Do they more money to the poor as a percentage of their income and assets than the average person? Maybe. Maybe not.
bluemeanie
8-16-05, 3:12 PM
The EVIL Microsoft Corp. Thats all anybody seems to talk about. I used to, but I won't anymore. However the corperation runs it's business, ethically or not, should be outshined by the help that they provide to the underprivilaged.
For all you MS haters who think Bill Gates is the Anti-Christ please check out The Bill and Mellinda Gates Foundation and the work that they do.
As admirable as their charity work is, remember that Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world. There are thousands and thousands of companies, organizations and corporations that contribute much higher percentages of their profits to charities and beyond. I for one am a believer that large corporations hold a responsibility to give to the community in these ways, and contributing doesn't entitle them to automatic Saint hood.
charlio lemieux
8-16-05, 7:37 PM
But did you check out the foundation?
But did you check out the foundation?
Lots of unethical people give to charity. If I had his billions I would be a very generous donor too but that proves nothing. He and his business are known for being unethical.
bluemeanie
9-07-05, 4:18 PM
Better check that your fax machine is working Steve, and be sure to get your RF patent's out on time...
Steve Jobs heaps on the suspense
By GREG SANDOVAL
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Few companies know how to ratchet up anticipation like Apple Computer Inc., which in typical fashion sent journalists a terse and cryptic e-mail last week heralding an announcement Wednesday.
Some analysts and industry insiders are sure that Apple and Motorola Inc. will introduce a cellphone that will play music downloaded from Apple's digital music site, ITunes.
Others are expecting Apple CEO Steve Jobs to introduce a new IPod, the company's ubiquitous digital music device, that can play video.
Piper Jaffray analysts said in a report Tuesday that while they aren't sure what Apple has in store, they expect a music-playing phone in the near future.
"We believe there is a greater than 50 per cent chance in the next 18 months that Apple comes out with their own Apple phone," Piper Jaffray said.
Even his arch rivals would concede that Jobs is a savvy showman. Already, the hoopla over Wednesday's news conference is paying off, as Apple shares climbed 5.5 per cent, or $2.58, Tuesday to reach a 52-week high of $48.80.
Nobody would care about such publicity stunts if the company didn't back them up with strong products, said Susan Kevorkian an analyst with research firm IDC. She said that besides co-branded phone and a video-playing IPod, Apple could throw the curtain up on a four-gigabyte, flash memory-based IPod.
Flash would make the new IPod more energy-efficient than hard-drive IPods.
Apple lost a class-action lawsuit this year after IPod batteries from earlier models were found to die prematurely.
Music-playing cellphones could emerge as a competitor to the IPod, some analysts predict. By branching into phones, Apple would hope to secure its place as the kingpin of digital music regardless of what device is used to listen.
Max Power
9-12-05, 1:40 PM
Take that Bill
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/gatespie.html
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