View Full Version : Don't Judge Leafs GM Yet.
Newfie John
8-07-05, 3:35 PM
Don't judge Leafs GM yet
By GEORGE GROSS -- Toronto Sun
It has often been said that the thing about opinion is that everyone has one.
And so, over the past week, the Toronto media and fans have seen fit to vent their collective frustrations over the perceived lack of activity by one John Ferguson Jr., general manager of the city's beloved Toronto Maple Leafs hockey club.
To the critics, Ferguson Jr. first failed to clear cap room by not buying out some of the major salaries on the team. The last time I checked, those salaries belonged to Mats Sundin, Ed Belfour and, to a lesser extent, Bryan McCabe. To my recollection, not one team bought out its leading scorer who, in this case, also happens to be the team's spiritual leader. So that eliminates Sundin.
Which brings us to Belfour. The critics wanted him bought out. Do those same critics think Mikael Tellqvist is ready to be an everyday starting goalie? Or do those same critics expect that Nikolai Khabibulin, the only star-quality goaltender on the market, would've jumped at the chance to come to Toronto? Even if he had, his salary would have cost $2 million more than Belfour's. I guess that strategy wouldn't have worked either.
I don't recall any team buying out its best defenceman in the prime of his career. While one might argue that perhaps McCabe is not the best defenceman the Leafs have had, he certainly is the best of those in the prime of their careers.
And that does not even address the probability that Ferguson Jr. didn't even have the power to buy out those contracts even if he wanted to! We all know how much Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., and the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan enjoy paying players not to play as they have done several times with the Raptors.
Next, the critics weren't happy to see Gary Roberts and Joe Nieuwendyk head off to retirement in the Sunshine State. They wanted to keep a pair of 40-year-olds who would not play in Toronto on a one-year contract basis.
Yet those same critics didn't want a 40-year-old all-star goalie who gets 20-25% of the games off.
The critics then called Ferguson Jr. out for not being able to trade players to get around the cap and cited the glorious job done by Bob Clarke and the Philadelphia Flyers in getting three free-agent defencemen and superstar Peter Forsberg. Most of those critics have anointed the Flyers as Stanley Cup champions even though not a single game has been played. Heck, why not just cancel another season and put the Flyers' names on the Stanley Cup?
If the critics think Belfour is too old and not worth his salary, what the heck do they think other general managers would be thinking if it was true? So, trading Belfour to make the cap is out.
Do the critics really think that the St. Louis Blues would have taken McCabe or Tomas Kaberle plus Karel Pilar and Carlo Colaiacovo for Chris Pronger? And even if they did, cap room would've still been a problem for the Leafs let alone finding three other defencemen to play with Pronger.
Finally, the critics bemoan the fact that Ferguson Jr. doesn't have a plan because he hasn't circulated it to the media or public. Since when is it the job of a general manager to give away his strategy to the public?
On the day that the NHL's new cap structure became public knowledge, did I miss the public statement by Clarke saying he was going to go after three big defencemen (Darien Hatcher, Mike Rathje, Chris Therien) and then sign a superstar forward (Forsberg) and after all that trade one of his best players (Jeremy Roenick)?
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the only way to judge Ferguson Jr.'s ability to lead and manage is to wait until the cap structure has been in place and operating for at least three years. Just as you shouldn't get Stanley Cup rings made after a 10-game winning streak during the season, or trade all the players and fire the coach for a 10-game losing streak, so critics shouldn't judge performance until the entire saga is played out.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2005/08/07/1163094-sun.html
I completely agree with this article.
leaferfan87
8-07-05, 3:57 PM
I also completely agree with this article. People are panicking over this, JFJ is a smart guy. He'll figure out a way to adjust to the new system.
The Insider
8-07-05, 8:24 PM
I think JFJ's criticism comes from his inability to decide a direction for this team. Right now we are in between seriously contending and rebuilding, and until JFJ gets a general direction for this team, he will be criticized. There's still a month to go before training camp, so he's got some time to make moves to get us to either side, but with a limited budget and not a very deep talent pool, I would suggest he leans towards the latter.
...with a limited budget and not a very deep talent pool, I would suggest he leans towards the latter.
You suggest he leans toward a "not a very deep talent pool" ?? :conspire:
Man, you leafers look stresssssssed out. You should take a nap or something. :]
http://www.nightmarefactory.com/Du328.jpghttp://www.nightmarefactory.com/Du643.jpghttp://www.nightmarefactory.com/Du615.jpghttp://www.nightmarefactory.com/DU1070.jpg
The Insider
8-09-05, 6:57 PM
Grim, you missed the the whole point, I was referring to rebuilding rather than contending and not what you thought. And if you're just doing it to bug... carry on :thumb:
Madferret
8-09-05, 6:58 PM
As a Sens fan, I am glad that some of the 'scribes in TO can cause such a ripple that JFJ got backed in to signing Domi for 1.5 M, for the sake of showing activity.
That's 1.5 M out of the 7 M that he had to sign much needed talent and depth. He also couldn't manage to keep Gary Roberts, the biggest Sens killer and really the heart and soul of the Leafs, has done absolutely nothing to improve a suspect blue-line, gave Jason Allison how many chances to pass a medical (could have taken all year as not even 1 other team interested in him)...I think JFJ is doing a fantastic job!
;)
Grim, you missed the the whole point, I was referring to rebuilding rather than contending and not what you thought. And if you're just doing it to bug... carry on :thumb:
Thanks Insides. D@mn my limited attention span. I will go back and reread it. As soon as I get this new signature thingy working... :]
__________________________________________________ __________________
Man, you leafers look stresssssssed out. You should take a nap or something. :]
http://www.nightmarefactory.com/Du328.jpghttp://www.nightmarefactory.com/Du643.jpghttp://www.nightmarefactory.com/Du615.jpghttp://www.nightmarefactory.com/DU1070.jpg
Newfie John
8-09-05, 9:41 PM
As a Sens fan, I am glad that some of the 'scribes in TO can cause such a ripple that JFJ got backed in to signing Domi for 1.5 M, for the sake of showing activity.
That's 1.5 M out of the 7 M that he had to sign much needed talent and depth. He also couldn't manage to keep Gary Roberts, the biggest Sens killer and really the heart and soul of the Leafs, has done absolutely nothing to improve a suspect blue-line, gave Jason Allison how many chances to pass a medical (could have taken all year as not even 1 other team interested in him)...I think JFJ is doing a fantastic job!
;)
That looks like a troll job, not that I care.
Anyways, I agree with you for the most part. Though Allison had a couple of other suitors, and Pitsburgh had a much more lucrative offer on the table for Domi.
Madferret
8-09-05, 10:36 PM
That looks like a troll job, not that I care.
Anyways, I agree with you for the most part. Though Allison had a couple of other suitors, and Pitsburgh had a much more lucrative offer on the table for Domi.
How can you say I'm trolling and then agree with me? I think you need a crash course on the meaning of 'troll' my boy...
Definitions of Internet troll on the Web:
An Internet troll is either a person who sends messages on the Internet hoping to entice other users in to angry or fruitless responses, or a message sent by such a person. The term derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" and ultimately from trolling for fish; it first appeared on Usenet. The term is frequently abused to slander opponents in heated debates and is frequently misapplied to those who are ignorant of etiquette.
BTW, this -> ;) means kidding.
Call Grim a troll and see what happens.
Newfie John
8-09-05, 10:40 PM
How can you say I'm trolling and then agree with me? I think you need a crash course on the meaning of 'troll' my boy...
BTW, this -> ;) means kidding.
Call Grim a troll and see what happens.
Frankly, I don't take the trolling too seriously, but I like to point it out to you because its fun.
Anyway, I think I could agree with you even if you were trolling. For example.. this would be a troll---> Aki Berg Sucks!
I would totally agree with you on that, but it would still be a troll. IMO anyway.. lol. :laughing:
Anyways, back on topic. Don't judge JFJ yet. Wait three years and let loose.
Madferret
8-09-05, 10:42 PM
Frankly, I don't take the trolling too seriously, but I like to point it out to you because its fun.
Anyway, I think I could agree with you even if you were trolling. For example.. this would be a troll---> Aki Berg Sucks!
I would totally agree with you on that, but it would still be a troll. IMO anyway.. lol. :laughing:
Anyways, back on topic. Don't judge JFJ yet. Wait three years and let loose.
You honeslty think he's going to last 3 years? After 1 week people were demanding his head!
:eek:
Newfie John
8-09-05, 10:45 PM
You honeslty think he's going to last 3 years? After 1 week people were demanding his head!
:eek:
Yeah.. but we're in Toronto. JFJ will last here, I mean, Quinn is still here isn't he? :laughing:
I think JFJ's direction is rather clear, just perhaps not overly desirable. He is clearly trying to keep the team competitive whilst adding youth and talent. Hopefully he has the sense to hold on to the higher draft picks this time around if that is indeed his direction.
Note- By competitive I mean a reasonable team that has a chance, but is highly doubtful of taking home the prize. Basically, something for us to watch while we grow some youth :)
Basically, something for us to watch while we grow some youth :)
Grow some youth? You mean "grow some bud(s)" ? :]
Platapie
8-11-05, 10:42 AM
Isn't that Vancouver/BC's job?
And my wording was intentionally odd there. I don't know why.. perhaps too much bud myself.
Newfie John
8-11-05, 11:59 PM
Now that Lindros has signed, our opening night roster is pretty much set.
Tucker - Sundin - O'niell
Lindros - Allison - Antropov (big line)
Ponikarovsky - Stajan - Domi
Belak - Steen(?) - Perrot
Mccabe - Kaberle
Klee - Khavanov
Coli - Pilar/Berg/White/Belak
Belfour
Tellqvist.
Madferret
8-12-05, 12:03 AM
Mccabe - Kaberle
Klee - Khavanov
Coli - Pilar/Berg/White/Belak
John, that's one hell of a bad blueline. Think JFJ might have something up him sleeve to upgrade?
Newfie John
8-12-05, 12:07 AM
John, that's one hell of a bad blueline. Think JFJ might have something up him sleeve to upgrade?
It's not really that bad. It's pretty much the same one that got us 103 points last season, minus Leetch, but he was only there for the last few games. JFJ doesn't have much wiggle room now anyway. There are still talks of him trying to land Anson Carter.. how is another question. He's worried more about up front, where the biggest concern lies IMO. This team is a mess. Lots of Ifs. IF(theres that word again) all the risks pay off, this team could kick some ass.. but thats a big if.
For a while we had a right to question him as fans.
Yeah I said some rather harsh words and such to say about his inaction, but after some deliberation I have now calmed down somewhat and I am looking for ward to the new beginning.
For a while we had a right to question him as fans.
Yeah I said some rather harsh words and such to say about his inaction, but after some deliberation I have now calmed down somewhat and I am looking for ward to the new beginning.
I've never seen old "ejector seat" Rusty so waaay not calm. Like my mother-in-law during a robbery (she's innocent BTW). But signing eggshell head has cured you? Hmmm. Yokaaay.
http://www.robertsilvey.com/photos/uncategorized/fallujah_frightened_woman_ap_1.jpg
Rusty dons disguise to escape eastern Ontario ridicule...and curses the inaction of the bad man Ferguson.
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/images/and_i_was_frightened_by_the_legs.jpg
Rusty throws off disguises and celebrates the saviour Lindros... "he's finally here"
:]
What is an "ejector seat"? Sounds like something out of a John Holmes movie!!!! :D
There were outside influences hindering my judgement as well grimster, something you guys would not understand.
I've never seen old "ejector seat" Rusty so waaay not calm. Like my mother-in-law during a robbery (she's innocent BTW). But signing eggshell head has cured you? Hmmm. Yokaaay.
http://www.robertsilvey.com/photos/uncategorized/fallujah_frightened_woman_ap_1.jpg
Rusty dons disguise to escape eastern Ontario ridicule...and curses the inaction of the bad man Ferguson.
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/images/and_i_was_frightened_by_the_legs.jpg
Rusty throws off disguises and celebrates the saviour Lindros... "he's finally here"
:]
bump. I know you've been stressed Rusty... get well soon. :]
Excuse me grimster but where did I say I was awed with the Lindros signing?
I said it should be interesting to see him on the Leafs, no where did I show any true excitment with the signing.
For a while we had a right to question him as fans.
Yeah I said some rather harsh words and such to say about his inaction, but after some deliberation I have now calmed down somewhat and I am looking for ward to the new beginning.
"For a while there we had a right to question him as fans." Right there. The moment of joy. Corresponding exactly with the signing of new Leaf Ericson... er, of Carl. :]
Still I fail to see anything resembling excitement in my statement, at least it didn't warrant a picture of a women wielding whatever that is.
Sorry it may just be me, but it may also be your rather different sense of humour.
I'm not trying to flame or troll because every team signs some dud players. My question is why did Fergie resign Nik Antropov? He's more fragile than I am. He always seems to be hurt or playing hurt in some form. There has always been talk about his potential but I haven't seen it. Can a Leafs fan explain this signing?
Leafs_Fa_Life
8-16-05, 1:32 PM
I'm not trying to flame or troll because every team signs some dud players. My question is why did Fergie resign Nik Antropov? He's more fragile than I am. He always seems to be hurt or playing hurt in some form. There has always been talk about his potential but I haven't seen it. Can a Leafs fan explain this signing?
He'll probably never realize his potential, but the team has no wingers, and the Leafs probably hope he can at least be a serviceable second liner.
Newfie John
8-16-05, 2:34 PM
I'm not trying to flame or troll because every team signs some dud players. My question is why did Fergie resign Nik Antropov? He's more fragile than I am. He always seems to be hurt or playing hurt in some form. There has always been talk about his potential but I haven't seen it. Can a Leafs fan explain this signing?
Like you said he has a lot of potential and has shown flashes, but he is too inconsistant. He is still young so he could come through yet. The fact is that we had no choice but to resign him, unless we wanted to get an older version of him for the same price.
The Insider
8-20-05, 5:36 PM
I think the Antropov issue comes down to the fact that the Leafs do not want to see the same thing that happened to Modin, in which they traded him for next to nothing(Cory Cross to be exact) and now he is thriving under Tampa's system and recently won a cup. I have no problem with him being on the team as long as he can remain healthy, not take stupid penalties and last but not least play on a line where he has a chance to produce. Unfortunately I'm still not convinced he can do either of the 3, and until he can really turn his game up and get it back to the level which he was at going into the 02-03 playoffs up until his foot injury I think I still will be nothing more than a 3rd maybe borderline 2nd liner.
Madferret
8-20-05, 6:49 PM
I think the Antropov issue comes down to the fact that the Leafs do not want to see the same thing that happened to Modin, in which they traded him for next to nothing(Cory Cross to be exact) and now he is thriving under Tampa's system and recently won a cup. I have no problem with him being on the team as long as he can remain healthy, not take stupid penalties and last but not least play on a line where he has a chance to produce. Unfortunately I'm still not convinced he can do either of the 3, and until he can really turn his game up and get it back to the level which he was at going into the 02-03 playoffs up until his foot injury I think I still will be nothing more than a 3rd maybe borderline 2nd liner.
Did Freddy Mo play with any of those traits prior to his trade though Mike?
Leafs_Fa_Life
8-20-05, 6:52 PM
Did Freddy Mo play with any of those traits prior to his trade though Mike?
He played on a line where he had a chance to produce. I'm sure Rusty could go on for days with all the chances Modin couldn't convert on.
The Insider
8-20-05, 10:21 PM
He played on a line where he had a chance to produce. I'm sure Rusty could go on for days with all the chances Modin couldn't convert on.
Yes that was Modin's #1 problem as a Leaf, he couldn't finish for the life of him. I believe he played mostly with Sundin and Thomas and could not capitalize on any chances. He shot the puck wide a lot and at times drove you nuts with the shots he missed. However he was worth a lot more than we got for him and in Pat Quinn's drive to get more gritty, he was victim #1... or two :confused:
Madferret
8-20-05, 11:03 PM
Ya that's more of a timing issue that comes with age and confidence, sooner or later a guy who can find himself in the right spot will learn to finish. I don't think Antro posseses' any of the potential qualities that Freddy Mo displayed.
However he was worth a lot more than we got for him and in Pat Quinn's drive to get more gritty
Mike, you couldn't have hit the nail any harder there I don't think. IMO, the Antro egg has been been sat on a wee bit too long, and his value to the Leafs has dropped considerably. It's a p!ss deal for the Leafs, Nik does have the tools to be a quality hockey player, and there was a time when they could have gotten a considerable return for him. Nik's got to breakout or it's time to getout of Toronto. Reminds me alot of the Petr Schatslivy sitatuation we had in Ottawa up until we dumped him for Todd 'Skates' Simpson...what a waste of talent.
:shrug:
I think some players and not just on the Leafs, but all players on qualifiers could be pleasant surprises. They are playing for a contract next season, and how many times have we seen players have career years on contract years? Tons. Andropov could be one of those type players. Actually now that I think of it, in the new CBA teams can take players to arbitration, this too can bring out the best in a player.
October 5th can't come soon enough for this hockey starved man!!
The Insider
8-21-05, 1:24 AM
Mike, you couldn't have hit the nail any harder there I don't think. IMO, the Antro egg has been been sat on a wee bit too long, and his value to the Leafs has dropped considerably. It's a p!ss deal for the Leafs, Nik does have the tools to be a quality hockey player, and there was a time when they could have gotten a considerable return for him. Nik's got to breakout or it's time to getout of Toronto. Reminds me alot of the Petr Schatslivy sitatuation we had in Ottawa up until we dumped him for Todd 'Skates' Simpson...what a waste of talent.
:shrug:
Well Cory Cross's only accomplishment as a Leaf was scoring an Playoff OT goal, I won't say who against though :thumb: and we gave a potential 20-30 goal scorer a season away for someone who we let go for nothing and who contributed next to nothing. It still baffles the mind, along with losing Sullivan on waivers... ahh... I do not like talking about the past :wave: .
Go Nik :nod:
Newfie John
8-21-05, 11:07 AM
Ferret, I think Antropov's raw game does have potential to break out just as Modin's did. Antropov has a good shot, but he doesn't use it enough and he's not totally accurate. He has great size, he used to use it but recently he doesn't use it anymore. Now that Renberg is gone, I think Antropov is our second best player along the boards, with Ponikarovsky being the best(since Renberg left). Antropov just has to wake up and smell the coffee and he'll break out. It's going to happen eventually, hopefully it happens with the leafs.
vBulletin® v3.6.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.